Starhawk
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/16/08
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: jjongmans]
#5397309 - 08/31/12 08:53 PM
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I've read quite a bit about this, and I've dialed in PID controllers. That isn't a trivial task. The fact you have to reoptimizes an ASA mount any time the configuration changes should not be trivialized.
With an AP, you balance and go.
-Rich
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Peter in Reno
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/15/08
Loc: Reno, NV
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: Starhawk]
#5397366 - 08/31/12 09:41 PM
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Are you planning for portable or permanent setup? If portable, Mach1GTO would be better because of a very quick setup and polar alignment as compared to ASA mount. For permenant setup, ASA may be a good choice since the mount is made in Europe and you live in Europe.
Peter
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Jared
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/11/05
Loc: Piedmont, California, U.S.
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: Peter in Reno]
#5397830 - 09/01/12 09:57 AM
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Peter has got a really good point. The potential advantages of a direct drive mount with high res encoders--primarily unguided long exposures--will only be realized in a permanent setup. Will you have a permanent site?
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jjongmans
super member
Reged: 02/11/12
Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: Jared]
#5398101 - 09/01/12 01:02 PM
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Yes, it will be a permanent setup.
Spoke to my local dealer today. Still some issues with the ASA. And I was right about unguided imaging at a focal length of 2000mm; I can be done, but it will be a pain in the @#%^. So it's advisable to use a guider with the ASA. So if I'm going to use a guider, why spend so much money on a mount when a 10Micron is performing at the same level with an autoguider... So back to the drawingboard 
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Starhawk
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/16/08
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: jjongmans]
#5398258 - 09/01/12 02:46 PM
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Or you can get the AP and be in business in short order.
You know the old saying about a bird in and being worth two in the bush. In this case, I'd be surprised if it ever crossed your mind to look back.
-Rich
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frolinmod
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/06/10
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: Starhawk]
#5398299 - 09/01/12 03:09 PM
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If I were you, I'd get a new Paramount MX or a used ME. Software Bisque has sold a number of these to European customers. They can be purchased and shipped direct or through a local dealer.
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Footbag
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/13/09
Loc: Scranton, PA
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: frolinmod]
#5398318 - 09/01/12 03:28 PM
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I remember first reading about the ASA's after ordering my Mach 1. I feared that maybe, I was spending a lot of money on yesterdays best technology. The ASA really looked to be the future.
Then, I read a few reviews from ASA owners and was glad I went with the Mach 1. The reviewers that didn't have to send it back for one thing or another, still spoke of long setup times and troubleshooting sessions. They tended to use terminology that implied the mounts weren't very user friendly. In general, it seemed that there were more then a few regrets.
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jjongmans
super member
Reged: 02/11/12
Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: Footbag]
#5398388 - 09/01/12 04:38 PM
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I'm really would like to read these reviews you mention, because I can't find any reviews, good or bad...
An AP needs an Adaptive Optics unit to compensate for wind, etc. Where the ASA does that 'out-of-the-box'. I think the mount needs a long setup time, so you're probably right about that.
What about backlash in an AP, it's impossible to have gears without backlash.
Also keep in mind that I live in Europe, so $6350,- will become $7950,- when it's in my backyard, because of taxes / import (that's without shipping costs).
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Peter in Reno
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/15/08
Loc: Reno, NV
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: jjongmans]
#5398473 - 09/01/12 05:54 PM
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If you are planning for permanent setup, then the long setup time for ASA mount should happened only once. You shoudn't have to setup every night. I understand that it has a steep learning curve but once you get the hang of it, it should perform pretty well. I wouldn't buy ASA mount for portable setup since the setup would take too long.
A-P mounts may have some backlash but it's pretty minimal. A-P mounts are very easy to maintain. A-P mounts are designed for easy maintenance. There are instructions that are very easy to understand. Also A-P spare parts are very easily available. A-P has great customer support.
Bisque Paramount MX or ME is another great mount for permanent setup. It has belt driven gears to minimize backlash. Bisque also has great customer support.
Peter
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Footbag
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/13/09
Loc: Scranton, PA
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: jjongmans]
#5398485 - 09/01/12 06:04 PM
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I'm sure you saw the review on CN. I don't know if you picked up on the fact that his first mount had to go back and the fact that he didn't go into much detail with the tuning. He did say it was the most time consuming part of the process, even more then building a 10-star pointing model. I don't have a permanent setup, so that was on of the things I was really paying attention to. The user does seem happy with his purchase though.
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2731
One other batch of bad reviews all seem to center around a single observatory in France that had a problem with their mount. You've probably read the story, so I won't even bother re-posting it.
I am going to hunt for some of the reviews later, I'm of to a wedding. You should join the user group either way. There are probably enough posts there that you could judge for yourself if it's worthwhile.
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vdb
sage
Reged: 12/08/09
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: Footbag]
#5398500 - 09/01/12 06:16 PM
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As far as I can tell the issues where indeed in the beginning or one setup in france.
The resend review is pretty clear and positive, and they fixed the issue with the encoders.
For me there is no competition except some other friction drive mounts ...
Guess you will find issues with all of these mounts, there is always a couple of bad units out there from every make ...
It's true AP and Bisque are great but for us europeans they are pretty expensive, and service can be an issue ... if it needs to go back.
If I needed to choose between a micron or an asa, it would be the asa no doubt.
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Starhawk
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/16/08
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: vdb]
#5398756 - 09/01/12 09:27 PM
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Astro Physics has two European dealers:
EUROPE
Baader Planetarium GmbH
Authorized for the following products: Telescopes, Mounts and Accessories
Contact: Thomas Baader
Address:
zur Sternwarte
82291 Mammendorf
Germany
Telephone: (081)4580890
Fax: (081)458089105
Optique et Vision
Authorized for the following products: Telescopes, Mounts and Accessories
Address:
6 Bis Avenue, De L'Esterel-BP69
06162 Juan Les Pins Cedex
FRANCE
Telephone: 04.93.61.18.83
Fax: 04.92.93.09.83
E-mail:ovision@aol.com
Website: www.ovision.com
Baader Planetarium in particular I know they have been working with forever.
-Rich
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jjongmans
super member
Reged: 02/11/12
Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: Starhawk]
#5399139 - 09/02/12 05:23 AM
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I know baader, they are selling the Mach 1 for $9250.
Edited by jjongmans (09/02/12 05:32 AM)
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Starhawk
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/16/08
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: jjongmans]
#5400036 - 09/02/12 06:41 PM
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Is that a kit with a pier and adapters, or just the mount head?
-Rich
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jjongmans
super member
Reged: 02/11/12
Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: Starhawk]
#5400066 - 09/02/12 07:24 PM
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Only the head.
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Starhawk
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/16/08
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: jjongmans]
#5400211 - 09/02/12 09:05 PM
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In that case, I suggest looking to locally produced accessories parallel to the ones on the Mach 1 and see if they are substantively cheaper than the AP versions. If not, then you have an idea of proportionality of costs. If it goes the other way, then you have an idea of what you want to do for support equipment and accessories, regardless of what happens with the mount.
I don't know why the EU makes things so difficult. They certainly have put up a barrier. I remember seeing small simple cosmetic mirrors being sold in France for over $40-$85, and wondering what the deal was since these items are very cheap in the US (none of them would have been over $25). Then it occurred to me they might be unusually high quality compared to ones here so I held one up and did some simple optical checks, but it turned out to be the same as one here. So, I was left wondering how people make a living.
I don't know an easy answer to the money questions. I do know the only equipment I keep thinking about the cost of is the stuff which isn't quite meeting my needs and I am making do with.
Best wishes,
-Rich
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AstroAl
journeyman
Reged: 02/06/08
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: Starhawk]
#5466898 - 10/12/12 01:14 PM
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Calypte, I looked at the Alpine Astronomical site and did not see the 1000HPS. Where did you catch the ad?
Alex
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crow
member
Reged: 07/09/12
Loc: BC, Canada
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: AstroAl]
#5467235 - 10/12/12 06:34 PM
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AstroAl - Alpine Astro I guess will be able to order you one being the US dealer. I think there would be a wait time. There was some delay while 10 micron worked on something in order to make it 'perfect' in their words. How that translates in the real world is hard to know but I think early users of the mount have been pleased. Wondering what the US price would be, more than a Mach 1 I'd imagine.
Edited by crow (10/12/12 06:47 PM)
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AstroAl
journeyman
Reged: 02/06/08
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: crow]
#5467351 - 10/12/12 08:17 PM
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Thanks, crow.
From what I see, it appears to have a greater photographic load capacity than the Mach 1. I have an AP900 in a fixed observatory--several miles from my house, and have never had an issue with it. I am sure the Mach 1 is just as good, for what it does, but I like technology (early adapter-type), and the guidance autonomy of the GM1000HPS might just fit my new spectroscopy project, which I see as much more a backyard, ands-on activity.
Anyway, I have written to Alpine Astro. Thanks.
Alex W.
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Calypte
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/20/07
Loc: Anza, California
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Re: Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS
[Re: AstroAl]
#5467366 - 10/12/12 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Calypte, I looked at the Alpine Astronomical site and did not see the 1000HPS. Where did you catch the ad?
Alex
I don't see it, either, but they are 10Micron dealers, so I'd think it might be worthwhile to contact them.
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