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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5425142 - 09/17/12 10:32 AM

Orly,

That's it in a nutshell.

If the PE isn't all that periodic, most of the available corrections will fail.

-Rich


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Calypte
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/20/07

Loc: Anza, California
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: Texas]
      #5425243 - 09/17/12 11:30 AM

Quote:

The G11 with the Ovision setup could be a match for the Mach1 on tracking. I've read very good numbers on forums from people who took the leap of faith.



I have the Ovision worm on my G11. It's worse than the Losmandy "high precision" worm. The G11 with Ovision is a recipe for frustration, not a substitute for a quality mount.


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Mantis707
member


Reged: 08/14/12

Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: t.r.]
      #5426135 - 09/17/12 08:10 PM

Quote:

...On tracking yes, but still not on capacity.




Actually the G-11 has a higher Capacity than the Mach 1, unless I am reading the website incorrectly. (Mach 1 can hold 45 pounds, g-11 60 pounds)


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Peter in Reno
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/15/08

Loc: Reno, NV
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: Mantis707]
      #5426144 - 09/17/12 08:16 PM

G-11 is not necessarily rated for imaging. A-P Mach1 is rated for imaging and you can almost double the capacity for visual observing.

Peter


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Mantis707
member


Reged: 08/14/12

Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: Peter in Reno]
      #5426185 - 09/17/12 08:37 PM

Peter,

So if the g11 can't handle 45 pounds for astrophotos, how much can it handle? I am in the market for a mount also.

Thanks


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Peter in Reno
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Reged: 07/15/08

Loc: Reno, NV
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: Mantis707]
      #5426197 - 09/17/12 08:41 PM

I didn't mean to say the G11 can't handle 45lbs for imaging. I believe G11 rating of 60lbs is for visual use. It's very hard to determine imaging capacity and depends on how long the scope is. I believe both G11 and Mach1 imaging capacity rating are pretty close together. IMO, I think Mach1 is slightly higher.

Peter


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Mantis707
member


Reged: 08/14/12

Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: Peter in Reno]
      #5426239 - 09/17/12 08:59 PM

Thanks for the quick response....it is very difficult to make a decision in this range...8-(

Seems like there is a huge jump /gap from sightly lower (say 30 pounds) to 45ish pounds.... tough decision...Its hard for me to part with money..Ha

Thanks for the clarification....


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orlyandico
Post Laureate
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Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: Mantis707]
      #5426283 - 09/17/12 09:18 PM

yes there is really a gap there. what i have seen is that with anything less than a Mach1, you are accepting certain compromises in performance.

these compromises can be worked around, i.e. i have discovered that i can overcome my DEC guiding issues by using MaximDL (instead of PhD) for guiding. but the work-arounds won't be perfect, and you either set your expectations lower or live with not-quite-round stars (which also can be worked around with FitsWork4) and thrown-away subs.

at the end of the day it's how much aggravation are you willing to tolerate VS how much money you are willing to pay. if you can afford it and you simply want to enjoy the hobby, the Mach1 makes that easier. (one of these days I'll walk the walk and get one )


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Calypte
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/20/07

Loc: Anza, California
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5426629 - 09/18/12 01:13 AM

"Mount capacity" is an unstandardized marketing term. The manufacturer can thrown out any number he likes. A-P's published capacities are conservative, and when Roland has been asked directly about specific scopes on specific A-P mounts, he usually answers forthrightly about whether it's a good match or not, at least to the extent that he has knowledge of the combination. Giving Scott Losmandy his due, that his published ratings reflect his honest opinion of the G11's capabilities, it's well to remember that the G11 was introduced more than two decades ago. Visual observing and imaging with film cameras and manual guiding were the norm. For such use, the G11 was "high end." Times have changed. Far more is expected of an imaging mount now than in 1990. "Capacity" that was acceptable then may be inadequate now. I'll say this: a friend had a G11/Gemini, much newer than mine, and he was able to achieve guiding that eluded my older non-Gemini G11. I understand the appeal of the G11. It costs lots less than any A-P mount, and there's a huge reservoir of experience with what's necessary to get good results. Just be prepared to sacrifice some beautiful evenings to tweaking the mount instead of imaging.

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orlyandico
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Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: Calypte]
      #5426660 - 09/18/12 02:13 AM

This graph should say it all
http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/mounts/mach1gto/performance

notice the flat guiding graph in MaximDL. i can get that figure - sometimes.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5427084 - 09/18/12 10:45 AM

On the price of a Mach1: after you use it, it won't cross your mind to wish you had bought something cheaper and tried to nurse it along to better performance.

-Rich


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Peter in Reno
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Reged: 07/15/08

Loc: Reno, NV
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5427107 - 09/18/12 10:56 AM

See photo comparison between Mach1 and G11 at:

http://oc-aisig.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=2711

Hard to believe the Mach1 only weighs 32lbs. The G11 weighs 36lbs.

Note the photo of Mach1 is an older model. The Azimuth knobs have been relocated to opposite of Altitude knob like the G11.

Peter


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RAKing
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/28/07

Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: Peter in Reno]
      #5427470 - 09/18/12 01:48 PM

Thanks for finding those photos, Peter. They are what I was alluding to in my original post. As mentioned at least one other time in this thread -- until you have seen a Mach 1 up close and personal, you won't realize just how sturdy and beautiful it is.

My wife lets me keep my Mach1 set up on the Eagle Pier in our family room between sessions. I have sold a couple already after guests have stopped by and seen it in person.


Quote:

On the price of a Mach1: after you use it, it won't cross your mind to wish you had bought something cheaper and tried to nurse it along to better performance.

-Rich




Well said!

Ron


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Lew
member


Reged: 11/11/11

Loc: Pittsburgh
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: CounterWeight]
      #5435141 - 09/22/12 09:50 PM

Jim,

I've been going thru the responses to my question and thks. for your input from someone who owns both. I'm curious if you already had a Mach 1Gto, why acquire the Ioptron EQ45? It sounds to me like you have the Mach 1 somewhat permanently mounted - is there an issue with its portability?

Lew


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Lew
member


Reged: 11/11/11

Loc: Pittsburgh
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: RAKing]
      #5435161 - 09/22/12 10:10 PM

Thank you for the input. While I'm too new to this hobby to understand a lot of the technical jargon on the mounts, I do follow from you, Jared and others that the AP is built mechanically better and will perform far better. I also now grasp that even if I were to acquire the AP, I should still get the refractor for imaging. If I can convince the better half that I've made a slight upward revision in my astronomy budget, what tripod would you suggest I put it on? I use my current scopes either on my deck or in my yard depending upon which part of the sky I want to see. When I'm done they go back into the house. My yard's not level so it doesn't seem to me a pier would work. I looked at AP's website and the only tripod they have is wooden. Does that work or is there a steel tripod from someone else to consider? Thanks for the advice and if others have views please chime in.

Lew


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Peter in Reno
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/15/08

Loc: Reno, NV
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: Lew]
      #5435165 - 09/22/12 10:14 PM

A-P sells this great portable adjustable folding pier and designed for Mach1.

http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/mounting_acc/eagle6

Peter


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Bowman
journeyman


Reged: 11/01/10

Loc: Michigan/Florida
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: Lew]
      #5435207 - 09/22/12 10:47 PM

Lew:

If I had to pick one tripod for my Mach 1, I would go with a Rob Miller TRI36L. It is light and solid and quick to set up and quick to put away. That being said, I also have an Eagle from AP and a Losmandy G 11 tripod. All are excellent. The Losmandy is the heaviest and is a little more work to put up and tear down, and tends to rattle around in the back of my minivan, getting nicked up a bit as it rolls. It is unbelievably solid. You would not go wrong with any of the three.

Larry Hoffman, M.D.


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orlyandico
Post Laureate
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Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: Bowman]
      #5435317 - 09/23/12 12:17 AM

Joe Castoro also makes some nice tripods. And if you get them without the fancy 360-degree table they are in the $600 range, which is the least expensive of the premium tripods.

The Rob Miller Tri36L is probably the best one though (even compared to the Eagle pier) as it's light, carries a lot, and costs less than the Eagle (about $1000).


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CounterWeight
Postmaster
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Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Palo alto, CA.
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5435386 - 09/23/12 01:45 AM

Hi Lew,

I use my Mach1 near full time for imaging. I wanted something that could easily field my FS-128 (while imaging with the perm setup) so I can get some visual time in - and possibly use for imaging with my small scope(s). I'm really pleased with the iEQ-45, though I mainly go for planets from this white zone LP I live in. I haven't tried the 160 refractor on it yet, I may because I've been testing/using the widefield/miniguider setup on the Mach-1 ! I would need a bit more CW though - possibly too the extender.


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Lew
member


Reged: 11/11/11

Loc: Pittsburgh
Re: AP Mach1 GoTo vs. Ioptron EQ45 Capacity Question new [Re: CounterWeight]
      #5442070 - 09/26/12 05:30 PM

Jim & Everyone,

Greatly appreciate all of the advice. After thinking long and hard about it (and getting the boss' approval if I wanted an AP Mach 1), I decided to get the Ioptron first to see how my interest in AP develops. In 2 or 3 yrs. if I'm enjoying it, I'll make the Mach1GoTo (or whatever they then have for portable)and give the EQ 45 to one of my daughters (got 3 with grandkids thru 2 of them - I've already given one an older ETX 90 and am getting rid of the LS 6 to the second one; if the third gets married and has a grandson, she will get it). I also took the advice on needing to learn AP with smaller scopes so I added an 80mm refractor and got the 120 mm refractor. I was going to order closer to Xmas, but discovered that the EON 120 appears to be out of production and OPT had the C11 on sale for several hundred less than others. Thus, I've ordered everything but the CCD camera (first want to learn how to do AP with the cheap Meade DSI II - make it a Xmas item). Here is what I just ordered:
Ioptron IEQ 45 w/modified clutch
Orion ED80T CF 80mm Triplet Carbon Fiber
Orion EON 120mm APO
Celestron C11 CGE style
Orion Mini Guider Package
Orion 9x50 RA finder

Thanks again to everyone for their thoughtful comments.

Lew


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