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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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ahopp
sage


Reged: 05/24/12

LX-800 Update
      #5489860 - 10/26/12 08:59 AM

Gang,

Just talked to Meade about my 14" LX-800. It has been at Meade for the recall since June, and according to the rep. this is what has been completed on my scope so far:

1. Replaced the worm
2. Increase the bearing size on both the RA and DEC
3. Made focuser adjustments
4. Improved the saddle plate(not sure if it was replaced or modified)

He says that these were thing done to my specific scope, they have a system that tracks each individual scope in the recall.

All they are working on now is the refinement of the firmware for the mount and starlock. He would not give me a firm date for completion, but, did suggest that it would be back to me by the end of the month. I have been given dates before that have come and gone, so, take with a grain of salt.

I told him that I would demand to speak with and executive if the scope is not ready by December 1st.

Tony


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Jared
Postmaster
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Reged: 10/11/05

Loc: Piedmont, California, U.S.
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ahopp]
      #5489870 - 10/26/12 09:10 AM

Thanks for the update. He told you end of the month... Do you think he meant October (meaning it would have to ship out immediately) or November? I assume November.

I'll be attending AIC in Santa Clara starting today. Meade is usually there with a booth. I'll be interested to see whether they have any of the reworked mounts.


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jgraham
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Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Jared]
      #5489880 - 10/26/12 09:26 AM

Wow, increasing the bearing size sounds like a major change unless they figured out how to get a larger bearing into the same size hole. Could be cool when you get it back.

Hoping the best for you!


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ahopp
sage


Reged: 05/24/12

Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: jgraham]
      #5489934 - 10/26/12 10:04 AM

Jared,

Yes, I got the impression that he meant the end of November.

Tony


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Jared
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Reged: 10/11/05

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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ahopp]
      #5490049 - 10/26/12 11:22 AM

Got it. I'll post an image if they have any of the upgraded mounts at the conference.

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Alph
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/23/06

Loc: Melmac
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ahopp]
      #5490131 - 10/26/12 12:22 PM

Quote:

1. Replaced the worm
2. Increase the bearing size on both the RA and DEC
3. Made focuser adjustments
4. Improved the saddle plate(not sure if it was replaced or modified)



Update? What update? That's very old news. This has been known for many months. Where have you been all that time?


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ahopp
sage


Reged: 05/24/12

Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Alph]
      #5490294 - 10/26/12 01:57 PM

Alph,

Not sure where your hostility is coming from. The update is that he claimed these items had been completed on my actual scope. Not some test unit. So, this suggests that they are now focusing only on the firmware. Also, I do not remember them ever mentioning that the were going to work on the focuser, but, I have not read all the posts on this issue.

Tony


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Alph
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/23/06

Loc: Melmac
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ahopp]
      #5490316 - 10/26/12 02:09 PM

As I said. There is absolutely nothing new in your post. There were many threads/posts about the LX800 in the past that did not reveal anything new like your thread/post. There is no point to start yet another pointless thread just to be closed by the moderator. Read the archives.

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jgraham
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Reged: 12/02/04

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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Alph]
      #5490338 - 10/26/12 02:28 PM

Well, if it means anything it was news to me and I kinda appreciated the update. I'm looking forward to hearing how Tony's LX-800 turns out. What's a few electrons between friends?

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ahopp
sage


Reged: 05/24/12

Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: jgraham]
      #5490577 - 10/26/12 05:19 PM

Thanks jgraham, I think the broader point is:

Until now we have been told what would be done to our scopes. Now we have been told what is actually being completed.

And, as I said to Alph, I do not ever recall improvements to the focuser being discussed.

Tony


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wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ahopp]
      #5490692 - 10/26/12 06:39 PM

Focuser Improvements!?



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Alph
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/23/06

Loc: Melmac
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ahopp]
      #5490736 - 10/26/12 07:12 PM

Quote:

Until now we have been told what would be done to our scopes. Now we have been told what is actually being completed.




The mechanical mods have been finalized back in July. It is all old and incomplete news.


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dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Alph]
      #5490751 - 10/26/12 07:28 PM

I think the "real" news, is that they are not yet ready to be shipped back. This, due to them still working on the firmware.

And what that brings focus to is.... man, they were NOT ready to be shipped ! And apparently they won't be shipped again, until they are (which is GOOD news !).

Hopefully, based on the report, everyone who purchased an LX800 will have a good holiday season, with new "toys" to play with...


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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
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Reged: 05/18/05

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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ahopp]
      #5490948 - 10/26/12 10:13 PM

If you have nothing to add to the conversation, leave it at the door. Any more snark will be met with a deleted post.

David


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Jared
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ahopp]
      #5491032 - 10/26/12 11:27 PM

FYI, no Meade presence at this year's Advanced Imaging Conference. They had attended the last couple years, but not this year.

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johnpd
sage


Reged: 04/13/08

Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Jared]
      #5491311 - 10/27/12 08:20 AM

They are scheduled to come to the Arizona Science and Astronomy Expo to be held in Tucson in early November. I bet there will be a crowd around them wanting to know what is happening to their scopes.

JohnD


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: johnpd]
      #5491519 - 10/27/12 11:04 AM

Meade really is alone among all astronomical equipment manufacturers in having anything like this going on. It's simply unprecedented. It's only natural this is going to generate discussion by itself.

The story going out from Meade is difficult to swallow at this point since it's not changing for months, and folks are frustrated. Some of the items are unexplained- such as the part about the telescope focuser, which wasn't on anyone's radar. The other major part is the star lock integration. Given how autoguiding has been an off-the-shelf technology for quite some time now, so this whole episode has generated a lot of questions without answers.

And unfortunately, we're facing a climate now where mentioning the elephant in the room is getting interpreted as "Snark."

So, what are we supposed to say?

-Rich


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tim53
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5491794 - 10/27/12 02:34 PM

Sadly, Meade has always done this, dating back to the late 70s, when I worked there.

People are only encouraging this sort of business practice by buying products that are advertised before they're fully developed.

-Tim.


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rmollise
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: tim53]
      #5491820 - 10/27/12 03:09 PM



I would say, however, that this time takes the cake. If there's a good side to it, relatively few people are affected. That doesn't make it any better for them of course. 'Twere me I'd have got my money back a long time ago.


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Zamboni
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 01/03/05

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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: rmollise]
      #5491837 - 10/27/12 03:26 PM

It may have been an issue since the 70s, but in the last ten years Meade has been really hosing up their product launches, especially on their highest-end equipment. The RCX-400, the LX80 and the LX800 have all been rushed out the door less than half baked. Considering how badly the LX800 launch has been botched, I can't see myself ever taking a risk on a high end Meade product because early adopters go through the wringer with every major product rollout.

If Meade doesn't get their poop in a group, they won't be able to survive very long. I've always preferred Celestron products, but the competition between the two companies is critical for pushing innovation forward. If Meade goes under because of poorly managed product launches, I hate to think what the broader implications will be for the industry.


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tim53
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Zamboni]
      #5491858 - 10/27/12 03:42 PM

Thing is, when Meade started making scopes and not just importing them, there was plenty of competition.

And variety.

Tim


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Raginar
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: tim53]
      #5491935 - 10/27/12 05:10 PM

Thanks for posting an update on what's going on. LIke John, I've enjoyed seeing what Meade is doing for its customers... hopefully they get this resolved so we can see what the mount is capable of.

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Lee Jay
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Reged: 02/27/08

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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ahopp]
      #5491936 - 10/27/12 05:10 PM

Quote:

And, as I said to Alph, I do not ever recall improvements to the focuser being discussed.




I wonder if this is why they aren't selling the OTAs in the mean-time. The initial reports about them were exceptionally positive so I was thinking they would put them on sale separately to keep revenue going while they were fixing the mounts, but they haven't.


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andysea
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Reged: 09/03/10

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Zamboni]
      #5494030 - 10/29/12 02:19 AM

I don't own any Meade products (except for some coutnerweights) but, being a mount junkie, I have been following this saga. I really hope that they can correct the issues with the LX-800, in theory it sounded like a good idea. A bit overpriced I think.

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Starhawk
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: andysea]
      #5494350 - 10/29/12 10:07 AM

If they get it to the point where it gets to the spec performance they were advertising, it's cheap at the price. But they moved into Mach 1 GTO territory on the price; 32 arcsecond PE isn't going to cut it. And unfortunately, they can improve it by an order of magnitude without getting to their spec or the demonstrated field performance of the Mach 1.

So, obviously the recall was the only choice if they want to stay in this market area. But they have set themselves up to get to 1 arcsecond RMS, and that's something people have been playing with for many years. Apparently there have been problems with starlock, though the full story hasn't been discussed.

It all comes down to not taking sides with the marketing crowd over engineering.

-Rich


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andysea
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5495410 - 10/29/12 10:07 PM

Yeah for that price I would expect at least 4 arcsec PE and a very smooth curve that can be easily guided out. I actually didn't know that the PE was so high. I guess that would make imaging with any of the OTAs that the mount comes with essentially a futile effort. Hopefully they can improve the tracking.

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mmalik
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Reged: 01/13/12

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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: andysea]
      #5495755 - 10/30/12 04:54 AM

Thing I don't like about Meade is that they have taken the astronomy industry and consumers on a joy ride for over a year now with the announcement of LX800, LX80, and other lines while they really hadn't done any homework. Publishing glittery ads in magazines for over a year while the real story is something else is hypocritical to say the least. Such are not the tactics of a company longing to survive. Meade has lot of work to do to rebuild their tarnished reputation let alone deliver what they promised (in this case LX800); else writing is on the wall.

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ahopp
sage


Reged: 05/24/12

Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: mmalik]
      #5495860 - 10/30/12 08:29 AM

Does anyone have a schematic of how the focuser works on the LX800. Trying to think thru what changes/adjustments that they made.

I know that the focuser controls the location of the primary, and that they have incorporated a crayford design which they have used to eliminate image shift/mirror flop.

Tony


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rmollise
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ahopp]
      #5496102 - 10/30/12 12:19 PM

I don't think anybody had one long enough to take one apart!

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ahopp
sage


Reged: 05/24/12

Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: rmollise]
      #5496253 - 10/30/12 02:13 PM

I had mine for a few weeks, but never took it out of the box, because of the recall. They picked it up in June and I have been without ever since.

Tony


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greju
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/13/05

Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: rmollise]
      #5496257 - 10/30/12 02:16 PM

Quote:

I don't think anybody had one long enough to take one apart!




Bad Uncle!


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Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: greju]
      #5497784 - 10/31/12 01:33 PM

I've noticed that a lot of times the folks in customer service don't have all the facts. I've read some posts here on CN that confused me so I checked in with the people working on my telescope and was told the information was not correct. I am not sure what the deal is with the focuser. When I had mine I was impressed with the focuser and had no problems. Zero image shift while focusing at high magnification. Maybe they found an issue that needs addressing. They need the OTA's right because they go on the LX600's too. So even if the LX600 mounts are great, the last thing Meade is going to need is a problem with the OTA's going on them.

If I find anything out I'll let y'all know.


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blueman
Photon Catcher
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Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #5497825 - 10/31/12 02:01 PM

June to November/Decemmber sure seems like a long time to have to wait for a mount to be returned. That is the loss of a whole season. This would be a tragedy to me as an astrophotographer.
Blueman


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Alph
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/23/06

Loc: Melmac
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: blueman]
      #5497940 - 10/31/12 03:19 PM

Quote:

June to November/Decemmber sure seems like a long time to have to wait for a mount to be returned. That is the loss of a whole season. This would be a tragedy to me as an astrophotographer.
Blueman



Really! Then it must be a tragedy that you did not buy your AP900 earlier.


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andysea
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 09/03/10

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: blueman]
      #5498494 - 10/31/12 09:31 PM

I agree!! Loosing a season because of that would make me really upset!

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blueman
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Reged: 07/20/07

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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Alph]
      #5498590 - 10/31/12 10:28 PM

Should have bought it two years earlier!
Blueman
Quote:

Quote:

June to November/Decemmber sure seems like a long time to have to wait for a mount to be returned. That is the loss of a whole season. This would be a tragedy to me as an astrophotographer.
Blueman



Really! Then it must be a tragedy that you did not buy your AP900 earlier.




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Pak
super member
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Reged: 09/15/12

Loc: The Great Arc
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ahopp]
      #5502448 - 11/03/12 01:53 PM

Quote:

Gang,

Just talked to Meade about my 14" LX-800. It has been at Meade for the recall since June, and according to the rep. this is what has been completed on my scope so far:

1. Replaced the worm
2. Increase the bearing size on both the RA and DEC
3. Made focuser adjustments
4. Improved the saddle plate(not sure if it was replaced or modified)

He says that these were thing done to my specific scope, they have a system that tracks each individual scope in the recall.

All they are working on now is the refinement of the firmware for the mount and starlock. He would not give me a firm date for completion, but, did suggest that it would be back to me by the end of the month. I have been given dates before that have come and gone, so, take with a grain of salt.

I told him that I would demand to speak with and executive if the scope is not ready by December 1st.

Tony




No way you will get it back by December 1st. We are now in the holiday season and Meade is also heading to Arizona next weekend. I honestly believe that IF they honestly plan to return peoples mounts to them in working condtion, they will see them after the new year.

If you want to give them a deadline of satisfaction, tell them you want your repaired mount returned by November 23rd, 2012 or a full refund by that same time. Then if they decide on a refund you can take advantage of Celestron's sale on CGE-PRO systems, which lasts through November, and go that route instead. With the savings you can buy a focal reducer (which Meade hasn't even been working on) a guide camera and a guide scope.


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ur7x
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/08/12

Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Zamboni]
      #5521644 - 11/15/12 05:56 PM

Quote:

It may have been an issue since the 70s, but in the last ten years Meade has been really hosing up their product launches, especially on their highest-end equipment. The RCX-400, the LX80 and the LX800 have all been rushed out the door less than half baked. Considering how badly the LX800 launch has been botched, I can't see myself ever taking a risk on a high end Meade product because early adopters go through the wringer with every major product rollout.

If Meade doesn't get their poop in a group, they won't be able to survive very long. I've always preferred Celestron products, but the competition between the two companies is critical for pushing innovation forward. If Meade goes under because of poorly managed product launches, I hate to think what the broader implications will be for the industry.




Sadly we saw a quarterly press release from Meade on their sales and income results about a month ago. Given that the company lost over half of its value in the last 2 months (something that I warned about) that would points to continuing bad sales and income numbers.

I too would like to see Meade turn this around. Are they selling anything other than accessories and the odd "loose" OTA these days? How can you stay in business doing that?


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Raginar
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ur7x]
      #5521701 - 11/15/12 06:37 PM

It's unfortunate they won't just sell the OTAs. Maybe it would help them pull in some funds until the mount issue can be clarified.

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blueman
Photon Catcher
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Reged: 07/20/07

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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Raginar]
      #5522861 - 11/16/12 12:53 PM

With the state of Meade at this time, if I had an LX-800, I would ask for a refund. It is possible that they may not make it through this bad time. It is also possible that they will drop the product suddenly as they have in the past, leaving people with a mount that has no support.
Later, if they found the problems and corrected them, then I would consider buying another LX-800, maybe. But right now I think this is not a good thing for the consumer to be involved in just too risky.
Blueman


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ur7x
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/08/12

Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: blueman]
      #5523157 - 11/16/12 04:29 PM

Quote:

With the state of Meade at this time, if I had an LX-800, I would ask for a refund. It is possible that they may not make it through this bad time. It is also possible that they will drop the product suddenly as they have in the past, leaving people with a mount that has no support.
Later, if they found the problems and corrected them, then I would consider buying another LX-800, maybe. But right now I think this is not a good thing for the consumer to be involved in just too risky.
Blueman




I won't comment on the return the LX800's suggestion. But Meade's last financial statement has to have everyone at least put one eyebrow up. They are burning through cash like crazy (about $500,000 per month), the have a huge back log of inventory, and sales are about half of they were this time last year. In the last 6 months they went from having almost $4,000,000 cash on hand, to less than $700,000...

Either they are getting ready for a massive Christmas rush or...


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Lee Jay
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ur7x]
      #5523196 - 11/16/12 05:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

With the state of Meade at this time, if I had an LX-800, I would ask for a refund. It is possible that they may not make it through this bad time. It is also possible that they will drop the product suddenly as they have in the past, leaving people with a mount that has no support.
Later, if they found the problems and corrected them, then I would consider buying another LX-800, maybe. But right now I think this is not a good thing for the consumer to be involved in just too risky.
Blueman




I won't comment on the return the LX800's suggestion. But Meade's last financial statement has to have everyone at least put one eyebrow up. They are burning through cash like crazy (about $500,000 per month), the have a huge back log of inventory, and sales are about half of they were this time last year. In the last 6 months they went from having almost $4,000,000 cash on hand, to less than $700,000...

Either they are getting ready for a massive Christmas rush or...




The reduced sales are from having (foolishly) announced the LX800 and 600 before they were ready, thus drying up sales of the LX200 and LX90. The extra inventory likely includes all the returned LX800s. Remember, one of those is like 50 Costco-refractors in cost. Thus, the inventory doesn't concern me as much as the cash flow issue.

Bottom line, they need to execute on the LX800 and LX600, and do so expeditiously. If they had done so on time, they'd probably be in a far better condition right now.


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rmollise
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Lee Jay]
      #5524049 - 11/17/12 10:07 AM

Well, that and the fact that the LX800 don't work and the 80 didn't live up to ints advance billing...

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Stew57
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: rmollise]
      #5524067 - 11/17/12 10:17 AM

I think they bit off a bit more than they could chew. Sad to see a once great company reduced like this. They are the people that introduced me to astronomy witha refractor back in the 70s.

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Bill Barlow
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Stew57]
      #5524155 - 11/17/12 11:04 AM

This is sad news for Meade. I currently own two Meade scopes, an 8" LX200R and a 12" LX200 ACF and they are very very fine instruments.

Synta bought out Celestron a few years ago, who would buy out Meade if they file for bankruptcy? Is there a large enough astronomically related company that would want their products or is this the end of the line for Meade?

Bill


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Bill Barlow
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Stew57]
      #5524160 - 11/17/12 11:05 AM

This is sad news for Meade. I currently own two Meade scopes, an 8" LX200R and a 12" LX200 ACF and they are very very fine instruments.

Synta bought out Celestron a few years ago, who would buy out Meade if they file for bankruptcy? Is there a large enough astronomically related company that would want their products?

Bill


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ur7x
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Lee Jay]
      #5524400 - 11/17/12 01:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:



I won't comment on the return the LX800's suggestion. But Meade's last financial statement has to have everyone at least put one eyebrow up. They are burning through cash like crazy (about $500,000 per month), the have a huge back log of inventory, and sales are about half of they were this time last year. In the last 6 months they went from having almost $4,000,000 cash on hand, to less than $700,000...

Either they are getting ready for a massive Christmas rush or...




The reduced sales are from having (foolishly) announced the LX800 and 600 before they were ready, thus drying up sales of the LX200 and LX90. The extra inventory likely includes all the returned LX800s. Remember, one of those is like 50 Costco-refractors in cost. Thus, the inventory doesn't concern me as much as the cash flow issue.

Bottom line, they need to execute on the LX800 and LX600, and do so expeditiously. If they had done so on time, they'd probably be in a far better condition right now.




I hope you are right about the reduced sales being mostly due to the problems with the 800 and the 600 still being "massaged"... Their financial statements only blame 31% of their problems to the LX800/600... Another 27% of the sales problem is tagged with decline of entry level (Costco/Walmart) "toy" level products... That leaves 42% of problems that we are left to consider.. I think that much of their problems stem from the brutally mangled LX80 release... Anyone considering that mount, would likely take the 30 seconds to do an internet search as to what people are saying.. and most of those comments aren't pretty.

The financial statements are not clear if the sales revenue from the LX80's are Net or Gross. If they are gross, that means they have only sold about 20-40 LX80's a month in the last 6 months.. While that is 20-40 more per month than 600's or 800's that is still a remarkably low number for a brand new product that had a ton of hype and even more anticipation.


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maddog
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ur7x]
      #5525480 - 11/18/12 03:33 AM

I wish I had a dollar for every post I have read over the years predicting Meade's dismiss, I would be rolling in it by now Funny thing is they just keep hanging around.

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laconicsax
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Bill Barlow]
      #5525487 - 11/18/12 03:40 AM

Quote:

Synta bought out Celestron a few years ago, who would buy out Meade if they file for bankruptcy? Is there a large enough astronomically related company that would want their products?




There's no reason to suspect that given that situation, Synta wouldn't explore buying Meade. It's like how Frito-Lay own just about every major brand of snack food.


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ur7x
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: maddog]
      #5525889 - 11/18/12 11:13 AM

Quote:

I wish I had a dollar for every post I have read over the years predicting Meade's dismiss, I would be rolling in it by now Funny thing is they just keep hanging around.




Almost exactly 2 months ago, Mantis707, after implying that I didn't know jack about trading shares, and even less about reading Meade's Financial Statements bet me that $3.45 was the "buy buy buy" share price for Meade. Well if you'd shorted 5000 shares in Mid September (like I suggested them... The post is still there ) you would have made enough to buy a fairly nice AP mount (or 2 LX800's if they ever sell them again) by now.

Rolling in it? Not exactly, but basically a 60% return in only 2 months is nothing to be sneezed at.


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DaveJ
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ur7x]
      #5525949 - 11/18/12 11:48 AM

Quote:

Rolling in it? Not exactly, but basically a 60% return in only 2 months is nothing to be sneezed at.




Not to start another fight, but have you looked at this? I can't quite reconcile what you just said with the information on the link I provided. Strange, indeed.


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ur7x
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: DaveJ]
      #5526006 - 11/18/12 12:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Rolling in it? Not exactly, but basically a 60% return in only 2 months is nothing to be sneezed at.




Not to start another fight, but have you looked at this? I can't quite reconcile what you just said with the information on the link I provided. Strange, indeed.




No, that's right and that is exactly what I was saying and exactly what I predicted.. You can make money when you think a stock is about to collapse. Its called shorting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_%28finance%29.

If the stock goes down in value you profit the difference. If it goes up you are screwed.

To anyone who could read (and understand) a set of financial statements it is easy to see that things are not all sugar and cream in the land of Meade.


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rmollise
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ur7x]
      #5526251 - 11/18/12 02:31 PM

That's for dadgummed sure, alas.

I don't think this will be a big year for their department store Christmas sales either. For the third year in a row, there are no Xmas scopes at the local Walmart.


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frolinmod
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: rmollise]
      #5526399 - 11/18/12 04:11 PM

In the mean time, Celestron 102 GT scopes are selling like hotcakes at CostCo. I saw my local CostCo sell two pallets in two weeks. Not bad.

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orlyandico
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: frolinmod]
      #5526525 - 11/18/12 05:43 PM

I remember those postings in September. Thought about it, too.

The big problem for me back then was that Meade is so sparsely traded that even getting the option to short it was not possible with my broker.

Oh well..


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David PavlichAdministrator
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ur7x]
      #5526528 - 11/18/12 05:51 PM

Ummmmm....I thought this was an LX800 update thread. Hint?!

David


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Starhawk
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5526714 - 11/18/12 07:46 PM

Well, if you can figure out a way to get $1.9 million together, you can buy Meade outright, based on what it closed at on Friday.

But back to Dave's point:

They've got to get those LX800s back out the door. If I had the tiller, I'd scale way back to a short list of products and make sure whatever went out the door freaking worked. If they've sunk some real effort into the LX800s and they are working now, get them out there.

-Rich


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Gord
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5527610 - 11/19/12 10:10 AM

I haven't been keeping up, but maybe someone has... they were at the recent ASAE event and there were pictures of the LX800 they had on display. With all of the items that were identified as issues in the original design, can anyone spot any changes/improvements based on the one they had on display?

Are they actually making improvements, or still just showing the same old mount?

Clear skies,


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rmollise
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Gord]
      #5527753 - 11/19/12 11:29 AM

If I were an 800 owner, I'd be worried that something really bad will happen to Meade before they get those mounts back out the door. Which is assuming anything at all has been done to them.

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dawziecat
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: rmollise]
      #5528127 - 11/19/12 02:52 PM

I see through this whole, sad saga the company still has money for advertising. No doubt these ads are set up many months in advance. No Starlock ad in the latest Sky and Tel though.

I'd feel very insecure if Meade had several thousands of my dollars . . . and my non-functioning telescope to boot. After all these months? It's hard to be optimistic at this point.

Why, oh why can't these things be made to work? It looks so fantastic . . . in the ads.

I'd be concentrating on getting my cash back well before this point. When, if, they get them working will be the time to repurchase.

I'm no lawyer but, if the unthinkable happens, the courts usually treat creditors best and consumers get what's left, no? And there is usually nothing left.


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MikeBOKC
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: dawziecat]
      #5528362 - 11/19/12 04:40 PM

There is a new post up in the SCT forum noting that Meade is now taking orders for the bare LX-800 OTAs from 10-16 inches. Not sure what that means, but in reviewing some of these threads it appears that there are no issues with the LX-800 optics, just the mounts and Starlock system. So they have have hit on a strategy to push OTAs and let people mount them themselves.

As one who has worked in private sector and political communications, I am reminded of the old axiom that when you have bad news to deal with, get it out there first and frankly. I think Meade would be well served by devoting their contracted full page ad space in Sky and Telescope and Astonomy to a simple "here's how we screwed up and here is what we are doing to fix it and when it will be done" message. But then some people tried to tell Richard Nixon to do that too . . .


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Alph
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: MikeBOKC]
      #5528424 - 11/19/12 05:19 PM

Quote:

So they have have hit on a strategy to push OTAs



Strategery as G. Bush would have said.


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Starhawk
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Alph]
      #5528909 - 11/19/12 09:55 PM

They've got to get some cash in the door, somehow. It would be easy to guess the LX800 effort has collapsed, but I think this is really all about some positive cash flow. If the OTAs are a go, then this is a good idea.

-Rich


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blueman
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5529000 - 11/19/12 10:35 PM

If the focuser is OK on the scopes! I understand that in another thread, it was stated they were working on it.
Blueman


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neilson
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5529137 - 11/19/12 11:43 PM

The time to worry is when they start giving themselves big bonuses.

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Starhawk
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: neilson]
      #5529295 - 11/20/12 01:50 AM

I was wondering about that focuser report as well. I have no idea what to make of it since I thought the design should be pretty mature.

Then again, I thought autoguiding was pretty mature, too.

-Rich


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rmollise
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5529517 - 11/20/12 07:34 AM

Quote:

I was wondering about that focuser report as well. I have no idea what to make of it since I thought the design should be pretty mature.

Then again, I thought autoguiding was pretty mature, too.

-Rich




An internal crayford focuser in an SCT is something Meade has not tried before, so I'd hardly call it "mature."


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ur7x
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: rmollise]
      #5529682 - 11/20/12 09:43 AM

Quote:


An internal crayford focuser in an SCT is something Meade has not tried before, so I'd hardly call it "mature."




That would at least explain why the OTAs are being held back too...


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Starhawk
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ur7x]
      #5529720 - 11/20/12 10:03 AM

I didn't realize they had tried that. OK, so it seems they threw out 40 years of experience on every major product they had, claimed the results would surpass everything else made by industry, and announced it all well before any of it could be delivered, and then shipped before they saw it work.

It's frankly extraordinary. This is much more like the behavior of a startup staffed by inexperienced newbies.

I can only guess there was a meeting where they reviewed where things were and what came out of it was, "We've got to do something new. We're going to a bold new lineup unlike anything from our competitors. We're swinging for the bleachers!"

I keep thinking about Quantum.

I strongly recommend anyone with an LX800 to get either your mount or your money back, soon.

-Rich


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tim53
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5529767 - 11/20/12 10:28 AM

It's like Deja Vu all over again...

Meade had some real winners over the years. The 1" shaft Newtonians, the RG Newtonians. The LX200 (except for those tupperware gears and coffee grinder drives) the DSI cameras.

And then there's now.

At least the winners of yore were Diebel creations. He retired a long time ago, though. Current ownership may have inherited his ability to innovate, but they also inherited his tendency to market his products before they were thoroughly tested.

-Tim.


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Alph
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ur7x]
      #5530118 - 11/20/12 01:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:


An internal crayford focuser in an SCT is something Meade has not tried before, so I'd hardly call it "mature."




That would at least explain why the OTAs are being held back too...



No it does not. The OTAs were held back for other reason and I will keep it to myself. You guys are speculating again.


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Starhawk
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Alph]
      #5530296 - 11/20/12 02:23 PM

Alph,

The Meade people are the source of the focuser story, so that's not speculation. It caught everyone by surprise.

So, what's the other reason?

Holding back data doesn't serve any purpose in this situation.

-Rich


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rmollise
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Alph]
      #5530430 - 11/20/12 03:34 PM

Quote:




No it does not. The OTAs were held back for other reason and I will keep it to myself. You guys are speculating again.




I'm not speculating pea-turkey. The 800 has an internal crayford, which they have not done before.

If you think you have special knowledge, that's cool, but don't expect anybody to take much notice if you keep your secret special knowledge secret.


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OzAndrewJ
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: rmollise]
      #5530523 - 11/20/12 04:03 PM

Gday Rod
Quote:

I'm not speculating pea-turkey. The 800 has an internal crayford,




It may be semantics, but does the unit have a "crayford" style focusser,
( ie a spring loaded drive shaft using friction to grip the baffle tube )
or is the advance just that the sled itself is now on preloaded ball bearings.
Ie all piccies i have seen still show the focus knob "appears" to push the mirror sled via a tangent bar as per current mechanisms. The ball bearings mean a tight fit with no friction for the sled, hence no mirror slop, but it still seems to be just a bog std offset dual speed focusser mechanism driving it all???.
Why i ask is i always wondered if it would be possible to mod an std SCT to directly load the sled at the centre of the mirror, not via an offset pin as per now, thus removing the twisting force that gives mirror shift. I was thinking of using a pivoting lever behind the sled, but a motorised crayford gripping onto the baffle tube would also work.
Just wondering whats really in there???

Andrew


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rmollise
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5530540 - 11/20/12 04:14 PM

I am describing it as _Meade_ describes it. Until somebody gets one and has a good look...who knows?

Edited by rmollise (11/20/12 04:17 PM)


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Alph
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5530626 - 11/20/12 04:59 PM

Quote:

or is the advance just that the sled itself is now on preloaded ball bearings.
Ie all piccies i have seen still show the focus knob "appears" to push the mirror sled via a tangent bar as per current mechanisms. The ball bearings mean a tight fit with no friction for the sled, hence no mirror slop, but it still seems to be just a bog std offset dual speed focusser mechanism driving it all???.



That would be a correct assessment to the best of my knowledge.


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Starhawk
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Alph]
      #5530669 - 11/20/12 05:29 PM

Ok, so did you just notice a hair to split, or do you have something new?

-Rich


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ur7x
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5530709 - 11/20/12 05:50 PM

Quote:

Alph,

The Meade people are the source of the focuser story, so that's not speculation. It caught everyone by surprise.

So, what's the other reason?

Holding back data doesn't serve any purpose in this situation.

-Rich




There are only four reasons would support why Meade is not selling the new OTA's separate from the mounts:
1) The focusing system is being reviewed/reworked (something that Meade has actually openly stated, on this very forum)
2) There is some other undisclosed problem with the OTA's (Meade has not stated this, this would be really bad news, and is speculation)
3) Meade doesn't like the thought of people mounting their OTA's on competitors mounts (which is also speculation and makes no sense) or
4) Something even more crazy than #3 (which makes even less sense than no sense)


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Alph
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ur7x]
      #5530728 - 11/20/12 06:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Alph,

The Meade people are the source of the focuser story, so that's not speculation. It caught everyone by surprise.

So, what's the other reason?

Holding back data doesn't serve any purpose in this situation.

-Rich




There are only four reasons would support why Meade is not selling the new OTA's separate from the mounts:
1) The focusing system is being reviewed/reworked (something that Meade has actually openly stated, on this very forum)
2) There is some other undisclosed problem with the OTA's (Meade has not stated this, this would be really bad news, and is speculation)
3) Meade doesn't like the thought of people mounting their OTA's on competitors mounts (which is also speculation and makes no sense) or
4) Something even more crazy than #3 (which makes even less sense than no sense)



None of the above. Think harder.


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Griffin!
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Alph]
      #5530740 - 11/20/12 06:10 PM

And it begins again.



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rmollise
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Griffin!]
      #5530831 - 11/20/12 07:00 PM



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Lee Jay
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Alph]
      #5530980 - 11/20/12 08:26 PM

Quote:

None of the above. Think harder.




They only have enough to support the LX800s on recall (that are about to go out ) and preorder.


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KevH
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Lee Jay]
      #5531097 - 11/20/12 09:37 PM

A recent post on Meade's Facebook page stated the following...

From Meade friend Jason Ware
Over the last couple months Galaxy Photography has had the honor of being a second round beta tester for
Meade’s LX800 Starlock system. There are more software updates coming but Meade is making great progress.
Here is a shot done with a 12” telescope. Details on the web page…..
http://galaxyphoto.com/jw_lx800_eline_m42.htm


Edited by KevH (11/20/12 10:05 PM)


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laconicsax
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Alph]
      #5531112 - 11/20/12 09:43 PM

Quote:

None of the above. Think harder.




How about these options:

1: There is no reason and you're just amusing yourself.
2: Someone at Meade is paying you to distract us.

Are those outside the box enough?


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Starhawk
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: laconicsax]
      #5531157 - 11/20/12 10:10 PM

They're outside the box enough to earn 10 points!

Let's see, what other reasons could there be...

(A) There are no OTAs.
(B) The focuser drive rods were made from zinc contaminated with lead, and are rapidly disintegrating.
(C) All the OTAs were stolen in a warehouse heist.
(D) The telescopes were getting shipped near Fukushima when the nuclear accident happened and Meade is holding them until their radioactivity drops to a safe level.
(E) They're saving them up and hoping to start an Astro-Physics-style waiting list.
(F) Alph is full of hooey- the real reason has been stated by Meade already.

-Rich


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David PavlichAdministrator
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: laconicsax]
      #5531161 - 11/20/12 10:13 PM

This thread is wandering and is within an inch of being locked. If you have any information about the OP, then please share it. If it's about the OTA, there's a thread in Cats&Casses about the OTA being released as a stand alone item. That would be a good place to post anything of worth about the LX800 OTA.

David


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blueman
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Alph]
      #5531214 - 11/20/12 10:39 PM

Alf,
If you have something to say or proof of knowledge that others do not have, speak up. If not, then you are adding nothing to the thread.Just implying that you know something that we do not is not proof at all.
Blueman
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Alph,

The Meade people are the source of the focuser story, so that's not speculation. It caught everyone by surprise.

So, what's the other reason?

Holding back data doesn't serve any purpose in this situation.

-Rich




There are only four reasons would support why Meade is not selling the new OTA's separate from the mounts:
1) The focusing system is being reviewed/reworked (something that Meade has actually openly stated, on this very forum)
2) There is some other undisclosed problem with the OTA's (Meade has not stated this, this would be really bad news, and is speculation)
3) Meade doesn't like the thought of people mounting their OTA's on competitors mounts (which is also speculation and makes no sense) or
4) Something even more crazy than #3 (which makes even less sense than no sense)



None of the above. Think harder.




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neilson
professor emeritus


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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: KevH]
      #5531347 - 11/20/12 11:52 PM

Was Galaxy Photography involved in the first round of LX800 beta testing also?

neilson


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faltered
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: neilson]
      #5531825 - 11/21/12 09:55 AM

yes, this thread is now a complete waste of time. I am now dumber for reading it. If I could go back in time, I would go back and eliminate what I have read from my brain.

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KevH
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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: neilson]
      #5532010 - 11/21/12 11:18 AM

Quote:

Was Galaxy Photography involved in the first round of LX800 beta testing also?

neilson




I'm not sure. I haven't really been paying too much attention to the whole LX800 saga... just knew this thread was here and saw the post on Facebook and thought I would share it.


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neilson
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/22/10

Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: KevH]
      #5532078 - 11/21/12 11:46 AM

Ok thanks for sharing it with us KevH. I was just curious, if they were, maybe they could shed some light as to exactly what was wrong and why it wasn't found and repaired before it shipped out the first time.

neilson


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dawziecat
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Reged: 10/20/10

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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: neilson]
      #5532133 - 11/21/12 12:13 PM

I don't get the antagonism to these threads, the crying out to have them locked. It's a mystery to me.

The facts seem simple. Please inform me as to my error if any of the following is wrong.

1/ Telescope and mounts, costing up to $7000 were paid for and delivered.
2/ They never worked as advertised and all were recalled by the manufacturer.
3/ People have gone months without either getting a refund of their purchase price or a repaired telescope back from the company.
4/ The company seems in serious financial difficulty as evidenced by their published share price readily available from stock market published sources.

Is any of this in dispute?

If so, inform me. If not, why the antagonism and pleas to lock the thread?

Two questions. Has anyone received a refund? Has anyone asked for same?
If not, why not?

If the company goes bankrupt it may well be too late to get much, if anything, back. It will be a court matter.

How on earth can consumers sit by and not demand a refund in this situation? That mystifies me totally.


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Cliff Hipsher
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Reged: 12/31/08

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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: dawziecat]
      #5532175 - 11/21/12 12:33 PM

I've been sitting on the sidelines watching, and I have the same questions, with one addition: How does one come up with the notion that discussing a manufacturer's financial health is "bashing"?

Its a known fact that Meade is in financial trouble.

What is becoming apparent is Meade may have pinned their hopes for recovery on these new mounts and technologies before they were proven to meet their designed specifications.

The unfortunate part is that people have spent considerable sums of money and have nothing to show for it, and if you what to take this to the extreme, there is a word for that kind of business transaction....

What really saddens me is I own some Meade equipment, and I was excited when the new mounts were announced. As fate would have it, I am not in a position to drop several thousand dollars on a whim, so I have been spared the angst that others are going through.

The bottom line is, I do not think this situation is going to end at all well for Meade or for those who are waiting for their equipment to be returned...

And if the mods want to kill this post, have at it... But you can't stop me from thinking....


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Alph
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/23/06

Loc: Melmac
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: dawziecat]
      #5532252 - 11/21/12 01:13 PM

Quote:

the crying out to have them locked.



because you guys are beating a dead horse. We read thousands of times the same whining over and over again. Enough is enough.


Quote:

1/ Telescope and mounts, costing up to $7000 were paid for and delivered.
2/ They never worked as advertised and all were recalled by the manufacturer.
3/ People have gone months without either getting a refund of their purchase price or a repaired telescope back from the company.
4/ The company seems in serious financial difficulty as evidenced by their published share price readily available from stock market published sources.



There you go again. What's new?


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Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: KevH]
      #5532276 - 11/21/12 01:28 PM

Quote:

A recent post on Meade's Facebook page stated the following...

From Meade friend Jason Ware
Over the last couple months Galaxy Photography has had the honor of being a second round beta tester for
Meade’s LX800 Starlock system. There are more software updates coming but Meade is making great progress.
Here is a shot done with a 12” telescope. Details on the web page…..
http://galaxyphoto.com/jw_lx800_eline_m42.htm






Things that make you go hmmmm.


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Raginar
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Reged: 10/19/10

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Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #5532291 - 11/21/12 01:37 PM

Michael,

I agree. It's nice to see a picture from the system. I wish it was a tad deeper though; some 20-30 minute subs over the course of an entire worm revolution would be awesome.

Still, that's a nice picture Thanks for sharing kev!

Chris


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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Alph]
      #5532687 - 11/21/12 05:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Alph,

The Meade people are the source of the focuser story, so that's not speculation. It caught everyone by surprise.

So, what's the other reason?

Holding back data doesn't serve any purpose in this situation.

-Rich




There are only four reasons would support why Meade is not selling the new OTA's separate from the mounts:
1) The focusing system is being reviewed/reworked (something that Meade has actually openly stated, on this very forum)
2) There is some other undisclosed problem with the OTA's (Meade has not stated this, this would be really bad news, and is speculation)
3) Meade doesn't like the thought of people mounting their OTA's on competitors mounts (which is also speculation and makes no sense) or
4) Something even more crazy than #3 (which makes even less sense than no sense)



None of the above. Think harder.




What is this, charades?

Okay, sounds like?

I learned enough from working at Meade 30 years ago not to commit large sums of my folding greens on their products unless I can see them and know that they perform as advertised.

-Tim.

-Tim.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Alph]
      #5532914 - 11/21/12 08:24 PM

You should talk, Mr. "I have secret info which explains all, but I won't talk." The poster's point is absolutely correct- statement of fact supported by the public record without inflammatory comments isn't a legitimate reason to close a thread.

If you (and I mean YOU PERSONALLY, ALPH), have new facts which would add to this discussion, then tell. If not, the last thing you have any standing to do is whine about people commenting on the limits of the currently available data and claim you have secret info. There are terms for that sort of behavior. None of them are especially polite, even if they are deserved.

-Rich

Quote:

Quote:

the crying out to have them locked.



because you guys are beating a dead horse. We read thousands of times the same whining over and over again. Enough is enough.


Quote:

1/ Telescope and mounts, costing up to $7000 were paid for and delivered.
2/ They never worked as advertised and all were recalled by the manufacturer.
3/ People have gone months without either getting a refund of their purchase price or a repaired telescope back from the company.
4/ The company seems in serious financial difficulty as evidenced by their published share price readily available from stock market published sources.



There you go again. What's new?




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Peter in Reno
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/15/08

Loc: Reno, NV
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5532923 - 11/21/12 08:33 PM

Two things about Alph. Do not listen to him and don't feed the troll. He is a trouble maker. Just ignore him and respond to other people's post.

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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
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Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: LX-800 Update new [Re: ahopp]
      #5532944 - 11/21/12 08:59 PM

Locked.

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