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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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MeadeSquared
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Reged: 03/06/11

Re: LX850 14" new [Re: galaxy_jason]
      #5644764 - 01/26/13 05:16 PM

We've all been watching this opera for so long and now this is getting fun to watch. Thanks for the post.

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Hilmi
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Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
Re: LX850 14" new [Re: MeadeSquared]
      #5645347 - 01/27/13 01:02 AM

Actually, now that the mount is working, its no longer that exciting for people. Did you notice how fast the discussion on this topic dwindled out?

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Raginar
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Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: LX850 14" new [Re: Hilmi]
      #5645429 - 01/27/13 03:45 AM

I'm really glad someone is posting images. I don't think Meade has figured out how important the 'grass roots' advertising is on a mount of this caliber. No one impulse buys a 6.5k mount.

Jason is doing a good job


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orlyandico
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Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: LX850 14" new [Re: Raginar]
      #5645493 - 01/27/13 05:13 AM

the results look great - Tak NJP class as i said - but i think a few brave souls will have to put it through its paces before the 850 will gain widespread acceptance.

if the variability in quality is too high, people are still gonna be scared. anybody who buys a 6.5k mount would not want to be rolling the dice.


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Raginar
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Re: LX850 14" new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5645517 - 01/27/13 05:49 AM

I agree completely. Wish they'd send me one to beta test .

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orlyandico
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Re: LX850 14" new [Re: Raginar]
      #5645526 - 01/27/13 06:27 AM

That's an idea... if at least 5 people got to beta-test the things, and the results were uniformly good, that would be a much-needed boost.

as it is - aside from the LX800 buyers who will now be getting 850s - someone wanting to try this out would have to buy one. quite a bit of a gamble...

another thing - Jason is a very accomplished astrophotographer. we all know that folks who are more experienced, can get even a not-so-great mount working great. so if some of the beta testers would be less experienced, that would be a realistic indication of what an average user might experience.


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ahopp
sage


Reged: 05/24/12

Re: LX850 14" new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5645582 - 01/27/13 08:05 AM

I have very basic experience with astrophotography. I purchased the LX800 14", so will get the LX850 back from recall sometime in the near future. If someone could get me a list of things to test/check out, I can report back with the results.

I am purchasing a copy of TheSkyX Professional so if there are any routines or scripts that I can run let me know.

Tony


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orlyandico
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Re: LX850 14" new [Re: ahopp]
      #5645793 - 01/27/13 10:48 AM

well basic stuff... how easy/hard is it to set up. any special tricks or gotchas. is balance critical.

do you get round stars at X focal length and Y exposure time. what is % of keepers and throwaways among the subs...


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Pak
super member
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Reged: 09/15/12

Loc: The Great Arc
Re: LX850 14" new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5645843 - 01/27/13 11:15 AM

Quote:

snip...
another thing - Jason is a very accomplished astrophotographer. we all know that folks who are more experienced, can get even a not-so-great mount working great. so if some of the beta testers would be less experienced, that would be a realistic indication of what an average user might experience.




This is it exactly.

Jason is two things that I can tell so far. First, he is an accomplished Astrophotographer with a lot of experience and a lot of credentials.

Second, when you look at his website it is all Meade. Meade banners and logos and equipment. He has been beta testing Meade stuff for years.

So he is a Meade guy who is an experienced and talented AP.

Who better to showcase your product? Reading between the lines I see someone who is loyal to Meade who will make sure not to show us all the bad subs he had to throw out due to tracking errors. He will not show us graphs or charts or talk to us about the PE curves in PEMPRO. He will not take longer than 10 minute subs and if someone asks him to do it so we can see how well the mount tracks at 20 minutes or 30 minutes, he comes up with some good excuses about not needing to and not having an anti-bloom camera.

How about a 30 minute unprocessed, unstretched, unmodified, unmolested image of a star field? Oh but then if we see elongated stars etc it'll be because of bad seeing or wind or both.

I think we need to know how long it takes to set up as an imager who is just starting out. How easy it is to polar align, drift align, point, find focus and shoot. Above all, how good it tracks and autoguides. How many subs are throw aways. We won't know any of this until these get back into the hands of folks who are willing to stick it out with Meade and haven't gotten their money back yet. When will that be? We are already at the end of January 2013 and these went back when? June 2012?

Edit: I wanted to add that Jason is using the F/8 OTA's that Meade sends him. What about the person who just wants the mount only and plans to stick a longer FL telescope on there? Will they have the same results?

Edited by Pak (01/27/13 11:17 AM)


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orlyandico
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Reged: 08/10/09

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Re: LX850 14" new [Re: Pak]
      #5645854 - 01/27/13 11:18 AM

i don't think there is some vast conspiracy going on.. simply put, Meade leanings aside, Jason would know how to get the best out of the equipment.

something most of us cannot do.


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ahopp
sage


Reged: 05/24/12

Re: LX850 14" new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5645905 - 01/27/13 11:49 AM

Pak, I think you are off a bit on your comment that we need to know how long "an imager just starting out" will take to get setup and going. I am I think an outlier in that I jumped from a 90mm to a 14", from no major imaging to going for the gold!!!

Most guys move up in the ranks so will have quite a bit more experience than someone just starting out.

Tony


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Pak
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Reged: 09/15/12

Loc: The Great Arc
Re: LX850 14" new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5645939 - 01/27/13 12:11 PM

Quote:

i don't think there is some vast conspiracy going on.. simply put, Meade leanings aside, Jason would know how to get the best out of the equipment.

something most of us cannot do.




Well the idea behind the marketing on the LX800/850 is that it is designed to take the most complicated aspects and reduce them to pushing enter.

In other words, vastly reducing the experience in correctly aligning a mount and choosing the best guiding system to the point where it is all automatic. Just press enter.

So the only thing left to learn is your imaging software and post processing.


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Pak
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Reged: 09/15/12

Loc: The Great Arc
Re: LX850 14" new [Re: ahopp]
      #5645950 - 01/27/13 12:18 PM

Quote:

Pak, I think you are off a bit on your comment that we need to know how long "an imager just starting out" will take to get setup and going. I am I think an outlier in that I jumped from a 90mm to a 14", from no major imaging to going for the gold!!!

Most guys move up in the ranks so will have quite a bit more experience than someone just starting out.

Tony




I don't think I am off at all. Experienced imagers will be looking at AP or PM. The complications that this mount helps with are non-issues for people with lots of experience. Therefore, this mount is aimed at people that have difficulty setting up, aligning, calibrating, finding guide stars, selecting the correct guide settings and getting perfectly round stars at long exposures. Not someone who has never owned a telescope or taken an astro image before but someone who is still a beginner in this area. Perhaps Beginner means something different to you than it does to me. I am not talking about a newbie who has never done it. Broken down it looks like "Beginner, intermediate and advanced. Jason is Advanced. I would consider myself a beginner having imaged with a DSLR a dozen times or so.


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Gord
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/06/04

Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
Re: LX850 14" new [Re: Pak]
      #5646025 - 01/27/13 01:03 PM

I think Pak actually has a very good point about the system that is still an unknown at this time. Jason is extremely experienced and very talented. Are the results he's getting due to the system, or him? Would any person be able to buy one of these and get the exact same results? That's how the marketing message has sounded to me so far BTW.

However looking at it from another angle, is the system doing it's thing just right and as good as what we are seeing, but this is as good as it can ever get? Is it actually holding Jason back, that he would have even better results on another setup?

The first scenario would actually be pretty bad. If it takes that level of skill to get the result, well, it kind of fails. The second scenario is actually quite good, in some cases. For example for someone starting out new, though it would then not such a good solution for the advanced crowd, and it could be argued that it would be a very small market it caters too (newbie imagers with lots of money).

Just an observation...

Clear skies,


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hectar
member


Reged: 12/24/12

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: LX850 14" new [Re: Pak]
      #5646071 - 01/27/13 01:25 PM






..Therefore, this mount is aimed at people that have difficulty setting up, aligning, calibrating, finding guide stars, selecting the correct guide settings and getting perfectly round stars at long exposures. Not someone who has never owned a telescope ....



That would be me. May be Mead sould consider sending me one like that.


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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
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Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: LX850 14" new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5646080 - 01/27/13 01:29 PM

Quote:

i don't think there is some vast conspiracy going on.. simply put, Meade leanings aside, Jason would know how to get the best out of the equipment.




Yes, and that's why he is the ideal beta tester. If something isn't working, Meade doesn't have to try to figure out whether it is pilot error or an equipment problem. He can tell Meade that it works or that it does not and they can rely on the report. It isn't surprising that he has used a lot of Meade gear; he's been a tester for years. If he hadn't used the equipment he'd have been doing a poor job as tester!


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kepler22
member


Reged: 12/31/12

Re: LX850 14" [Re: jrcrilly]
      #5646180 - 01/27/13 02:37 PM

hello everybody my name is Celestron CGE PRO im
nearly four years old i use to be 6500$ now im
only 5000$ my payload is 90lbs i work first time
out of the box i dont need to be given back fixed
up and redesigned and my name changed i have many
other brothers like me who are four years old and
still going strong like my other little brothers
cgem and cgem dx i had a new baby brother called
VX he will work first time out of the box too.


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hectar
member


Reged: 12/24/12

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: LX850 14" [Re: jrcrilly]
      #5646195 - 01/27/13 02:46 PM

Quote:



Yes, and that's why he is the ideal beta tester. If something isn't working, Meade doesn't have to try to figure out whether it is pilot error or an equipment problem. He can tell Meade that it works or that it does not and they can rely on the report. It isn't surprising that he has used a lot of Meade gear; he's been a tester for years. If he hadn't used the equipment he'd have been doing a poor job as tester!



I dont agree with it. It's an insult to others who are experts on AP but they are (somehow) not associated with Mead. Was this mount built by NASA and only their space pilots have the ability to understand it or operate it??..

If Mead wants to build their reputation, they should consider non-vendors too. Get their honest opinion and improve it if required.

Btw, based on reputation of LX80, Would anybody who owned it, consider buying any Mead mount regardless how many good things their salesman is spelling out???. Just an opinion. Criticism is a good and healthy thing, you must not shut it down.
(Now I have zero chance of getting one.... )


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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
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Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: LX850 14" [Re: hectar]
      #5646241 - 01/27/13 03:13 PM

Quote:

I dont agree with it. It's an insult to others who are experts on AP but they are (somehow) not associated with Mead. Was this mount built by NASA and only their space pilots have the ability to understand it or operate it??..




It's a lot of work to test a mount. I used to do some testing myself. It isn't reasonable to expect someone who would never buy a mount in this class to tear down their setups to use this mount for an extended period. That's why most big guns (who already use Tak, AP, or Bisque gear) don't get involved as Meade beta testers. They are certainly capable, but have no interest in doing it. I'd be interested myself, but spend so little time in the observatory that it would take far too long to get the required hours in.


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hectar
member


Reged: 12/24/12

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: LX850 14" [Re: jrcrilly]
      #5646264 - 01/27/13 03:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I dont agree with it. It's an insult to others who are experts on AP but they are (somehow) not associated with Mead. Was this mount built by NASA and only their space pilots have the ability to understand it or operate it??..




It's a lot of work to test a mount. I used to do some testing myself. It isn't reasonable to expect someone who would never buy a mount in this class to tear down their setups to use this mount for an extended period. That's why most big guns (who already use Tak, AP, or Bisque gear) don't get involved as Meade beta testers. They are certainly capable, but have no interest in doing it. I'd be interested myself, but spend so little time in the observatory that it would take far too long to get the required hours in.



Cool!. I am glad you didnt get offended by my opinion. I would rather highly recommend Mead to send you a one like that. Honestly, I would trust your results/testing than a vendor's testing/results .


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