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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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terry59
Post Laureate
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Reged: 07/18/11

Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Eq mount load capacity. new [Re: Motokid600]
      #5641174 - 01/24/13 06:05 PM

Quote:

Well for starters im just going to be using a a 2 inch LP filter for my Canon EoS Rebel. Not the best camera, but it could be alot better with the right hardware. Right now on my Cpc1100 i can do 2 minute guided subs if im lucky. And on top of that the vignetting is horrendous. Its time for me to get serious. I want a telescope/mount setup i can walk away from with confidence. I want something that will just WORK. And work WELL. So far my AP adventure is consisting of nothing, but trial and error... with alot more error then trial.

Idk its a tough call. If im moving up my price range into $6k for mounts then alot of doors open up choice wise. The Mach1GTO does seem really nice. Im just deterred by the amount of needed accessories and switching over to new software. ( Ive become very attuned to NexStar ) But i am confused. .. This GTO mount is $6,415. Yet it can only hold 45lbs of equipment? Yet the Losmandy Titan can hold up to 100lbs for $400 less... so what going on here? Is the GTO THAT much better at tracking? Sadly im not to savy with EQ mounts having never owned one. But i do understand them. Its just alot of these "features" are almost off-putting. As far as narrowband imaging goes... i dont have much ( if any ) interest in it. ( Although i said that about AP when i first bought my CPC1100 for visual use ) Ive also been considering a CCD camera, but... no. I want to stick with DSLR's. There just... easier. And cheaper.




Don't quote me but I believe that the Titan rating is for visual and the Mch 1 is for imaging. If I'm wrong, someone will correct me. As to DSLR or CCD, start with what makes you comfortable. Who knows where you will end up.

My heartburn is all of the soundbite advise that doesn't necessarily help someone just getting into this, especially when it comes to AP. One can certainly produce images with low budget equipment, but that will be an impediment if there comes a day when the desire to improve image quality arrives. If you can afford a Losmandy or AP mount, that's great. It should serve you for years (within it's weight class). Good luck!


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orlyandico
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Eq mount load capacity. new [Re: terry59]
      #5641195 - 01/24/13 06:21 PM

hi,
the Mach1 does look horrendously expensive for what it does. Yes! it costs more than a Losmandy Titan, or a CGE Pro!

and yes! it only carries 45lb!

but..

1) the periodic error is tiny. on mine, 3.5" p-p. 0.42" p-p with PEM turned on

2) no futzing with backlash, declination, etc. the thing just works. Adjusting the worm (I had to on mine, it got jammed in shipping) is a 2-minute operation

3) it weighs 30lb. The CGE Pro and Titan heads both weigh 75lb - that is a very considerable factor if you don't have a permanent installation

4) it is freakin' gorgeous!

5) AP tech support is fantastic


There is simply no mount in the $6K class that is better. I spent months considering my options, and that's what I concluded.

You can get a used Tak NJP for sub $5K. It's a great mount (better than the Titan or CGE Pro) with similar load capacity. Similarly heavy though.

There are other options, again like the CGE I mentioned earlier. IMHO a used CGE at $2000 is one of the better (if not the best) deals you can get bang-for-buck. And it has the great Nexstar software and handset (the AP GTO handset has a whopping one star alignment - so unless your polar alignment is dead-on, GoTo's will not be accurate).

Just don't expect a CGE (or CGE Pro, or Losmandy Titan, or G11) to achieve perfection. They won't. But they are very competent mounts that do require tweaking. Any AP mount will not require that. But you pay for that convenience..

A warning though - there's a vocal scare-tactic minority who will tell you that buying a Mach1 is not just the $6350 but you will "pay $9000 for accessories."

This isn't true - but you will definitely not pay $6350. That amount just gets you the mount head and counterweight shaft. At the very minimum you will need

- a tripod; Rob Miller makes some fantastic ones starting at $575; 200lb capacity and weighs 9lb; IMHO this is the best buy as the AP tripods start at $700+ and weigh more

- an ADATRI (flange to attach the Mach1 to the tripod); $60

- some counterweights ($115 each - you'll need 3 to balance a C11EDGE; or 1 for a refractor)

- a dovetail saddle; Robin Casady makes good ones, better than the AP ones IMHO since I have both an AP saddle and a Casady; about $150-ish

So no, it's not $6350.. but rather $7300+

You can buy used, I did. AP will still support you, heck they support my 20-odd year old AP600 that has had who knows how many owners.

And you can use a cheap tripod, like one off a Celestron CGEM or something (you'd need to fabricate a flat plate to adapt the Celestron tripod to the ADATRI). I used a $75 tripod from the 80s! works fine with my C9.25... round stars at 10 minutes guided, with no tweaking and badly out of balance.



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mmalik
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/13/12

Loc: USA
Re: Eq mount load capacity. new [Re: Motokid600]
      #5643894 - 01/26/13 07:47 AM

Quote:

Well for starters im just going to be using a a 2 inch LP filter for my Canon EoS Rebel. Not the best camera, but it could be alot better with the right hardware. Right now on my Cpc1100 i can do 2 minute guided subs if im lucky. And on top of that the vignetting is horrendous. Its time for me to get serious. I want a telescope/mount setup i can walk away from with confidence. I want something that will just WORK. And work WELL. So far my AP adventure is consisting of nothing, but trial and error... with alot more error then trial.

Idk its a tough call. If im moving up my price range into $6k for mounts then alot of doors open up choice wise. The Mach1GTO does seem really nice. Im just deterred by the amount of needed accessories and switching over to new software. ( Ive become very attuned to NexStar ) But i am confused. .. This GTO mount is $6,415. Yet it can only hold 45lbs of equipment? Yet the Losmandy Titan can hold up to 100lbs for $400 less... so what going on here? Is the GTO THAT much better at tracking? Sadly im not to savy with EQ mounts having never owned one. But i do understand them. Its just alot of these "features" are almost off-putting. As far as narrowband imaging goes... i dont have much ( if any ) interest in it. ( Although i said that about AP when i first bought my CPC1100 for visual use ) Ive also been considering a CCD camera, but... no. I want to stick with DSLR's. There just... easier. And cheaper.




Lot of ground you covered in those two paragraphs; and your situation is quite understandable. Here are some thought in light of that:

1. If you decide to go with Mach1GTO..., do compare it against 900GTO before making the transaction. One thing you already mentioned is the total capacity of Mach1GTO; if you think you’ll be exceeding that limit then that’s where alternatives come into the picture.

2. Not sure if your Rebel is modified or not; either modify it or get this..., maybe from here.... [Some imaging results here...]

3. Your SCT will do in the meantime but for serious imaging you'll need to switch to an APO; two ways to go by, wide angle or narrow angle. A consideration regarding wide angle APO here....

4. DSLR imaging is simpler; if you wanted to dabble in CCD, a useful discussion here....


On a side note, some image processing instructions here....


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mmalik
Postmaster
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Reged: 01/13/12

Loc: USA
Re: Eq mount load capacity. new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5644010 - 01/26/13 09:22 AM

Quote:

- a tripod; Rob Miller makes some fantastic ones starting at $575; 200lb capacity and weighs 9lb; IMHO this is the best buy as the AP tripods start at $700+ and weigh more

- an ADATRI (flange to attach the Mach1 to the tripod); $60

...

- a dovetail saddle; Robin Casady makes good ones, better than the AP ones IMHO since I have both an AP saddle and a Casady; about $150-ish




Could you please provide specific details (web links, specs, pics, part #s, where to buy/good vendors, etc.) for each of these (Miller/ADATRI/Casady) in terms of Mach1GTO?


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orlyandico
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Eq mount load capacity. new [Re: mmalik]
      #5644018 - 01/26/13 09:29 AM

google can point to all the information needed. the OP would need to do his homework anyway if he wanted to buy this stuff.

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andysea
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 09/03/10

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: Eq mount load capacity. new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5644217 - 01/26/13 11:23 AM

You don't need the adatri if you get the RM tripod. Mine came with the right base to fit the Mach1. I think the cost of the tripod was around 700 bucks or so. You just need to tell Rob that you're going to use it for the Mach1.

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orlyandico
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Eq mount load capacity. new [Re: andysea]
      #5644278 - 01/26/13 11:59 AM

hi andy,
didn't know that. the quote to me was 985 including shipping to Singapore (about 150 i think). you can take off 195 if you don't get the levelers.


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Calypte
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/20/07

Loc: Anza, California
Re: Eq mount load capacity. new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5644461 - 01/26/13 02:03 PM

There is no standard for payload ratings. Roland's rating of 45 lbs for the A-P Mach1GTO is for imaging. For the others, who knows? My G11 is "rated" for 60 lbs, compared to 45 lbs for my Mach1GTO. But the Mach1GTO easily carries more (for my purposes) than the G11. If you have an observatory that shields the mount from wind, you can probably get away with more than you can with a portable set-up. But I suspect we wouldn't have this discussion if the OP had an observatory.

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mmalik
Postmaster
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Reged: 01/13/12

Loc: USA
Re: Eq mount load capacity. new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5644919 - 01/26/13 07:00 PM

Quote:

Google can point to all the information needed




What are we doing at CN then , would help if you could please point to specific product/parts pages. Thx


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Motokid600
super member


Reged: 06/27/10

Loc: Berlin, New Jersey
Re: Eq mount load capacity. new [Re: mmalik]
      #5647154 - 01/27/13 11:07 PM

Thanks mmalik for the info there. Some really good stuff i should consider. But.. as far as an OTA goes. Yea im looking at all types. My C11 will do for now, but yes eventually id like to get something REALLY nice. The thing is i do mainly narrow field imaging. Planetarys... planets and galaxies. Ive tried wide field imaging. ( I do have an AT72ED ) But living in a yellow zone my light pollution does take its toll. Granted ive yet to get myself an LP filter so id imagine that'd help some. I need a scope that can do it all and i imagine an APO with just as much focal length as my C11 will cost just as much as this Mach1 if not more. ( Although you do indeed get what you pay for )

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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
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Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Eq mount load capacity. new [Re: Motokid600]
      #5647190 - 01/27/13 11:38 PM

Quote:

i imagine an APO with just as much focal length as my C11 will cost just as much as this Mach1 if not more.




Much, much more. The only 11" F/10 apo refractor I can think of sells for over 100,000 Euros. At 130 pounds and, of course, being nearly 3 meters long it would require an impressive mount. I don't know if an AP-3600 would handle it. At those focal lengths you will want to stick with a Cass variant. Excellent Cass variants exist if you want to get away from an SCT, though.


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