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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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zjc26138
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Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m
      #5676656 - 02/12/13 09:52 PM

I've had my iEQ45 for well over a year now and I just realized something. Even though my scope shipped with the modified dec clutch, the hand controller is not the newer 8407 model, but the older 8406 model. So maybe I got shipped the wrong controller, it works fine, but I feel like I should be using the newer controller. Any thoughts?

The next issue is play in both the RA axis and DEC axis. I never really thought this was a big deal, espeically since I have done 7 minute guided subs. What is the easiest way to remove the play or do I just have to live with it until I can afford an AP900?

Lastly the motors seem to be making more noise then usual. I noticed tonight while tracking Jupiter the RA motor was rather loud. More loud then I remember it in the past. So I set the mount up inside my house, and the RA motor still was louder than I remember. And the dec motor was also making noise. Any ideas on this?

As always thanks for the help!


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orlyandico
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5676698 - 02/12/13 10:12 PM

increased noise may be due to improper balance. Generally you would want to be east-heavy. On my CGEM it is noisier when moving east (in the direction of greater weight) than the other direction.

how much slop is there in both axes? if it's like 1/10 of the field of a 32mm eyepiece then that's normal and you'll never be rid of it unless you go the AP route.

incidentally i have a 20-year old AP and a 2-year old AP. the 20-year old also has slop (although less than my CGEM).


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5676725 - 02/12/13 10:31 PM

The motors were making the noise with my scope on the mount and when the scope was off of the mount.

I can't recall exactly, but the slop seems a lot great than 1/10 the field of my 30mm. I would guess close to 1/4. Right now if I grab the counter weight shaft I can get the whole mount to wiggle. It's hard to describe exactly how much it wiggles, but its quite noticable.

Also with the DEC completely locked down I still can use the scope to rotate the axis without much difficulty.


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orlyandico
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5676778 - 02/12/13 11:14 PM

Wiggle with the clutches locked is normal. On my CGEM the end of the shaft moves back and forth about 2mm when locked.

If it's more than that then perhaps you need to adjust the worm mesh.


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nomosnow
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5676790 - 02/12/13 11:21 PM

"Also with the DEC completely locked down I still can use the scope to rotate the axis without much difficulty."
So.. you are pushing on the telescope and actually moving the dec axis??? There is something wrong here as the worm wheel is coming out of mesh with the worm gear . These two are spring loaded. If you are pushing on the telescope and moving the dec axis you may be damaging the 2 gears as they bump over each other.


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: nomosnow]
      #5676801 - 02/12/13 11:26 PM

Yeah it wiggles more than 2mm. And yes I'm pushing the scope and the whole dec axis is moving. It's not easy moving, but it still moves. I figured it wasn't good.

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psandelle
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Reged: 06/18/08

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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5676853 - 02/13/13 12:04 AM

Have you emailed the iOptron support people? They've always been very responsive with all the questions I've had.

Paul


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: psandelle]
      #5676854 - 02/13/13 12:06 AM

I'll give them a call in the am.

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psandelle
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Reged: 06/18/08

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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5676867 - 02/13/13 12:22 AM

I don't know about their phone courtesy, but I've found they get back to me in 24 hours or less with email (even on the weekend) almost every time.

Good luck, too. At the very least get the new HC, and I hope there's an easy way to fix the wiggles.

Paul


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: psandelle]
      #5676873 - 02/13/13 12:26 AM

Thanks. I've had good luck with calling them in the past.

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chboss
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5677003 - 02/13/13 03:35 AM

I have the one with the 8406 controller and the new clutch in DEC.
The new type of controller and control boards came out later if I am not mistaken....

The play in the axes may be due to the spring loaded motor assembly. Unlike on other mounts where the gear mesh is fixed, it is spring loaded on the iEQ45, which makes both axes feel "soft".
On the Yahoo groups you can find some tuning tips for improvements.
But if guiding and Goto's work properly why bother?

best regards
Chris


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: chboss]
      #5677344 - 02/13/13 10:11 AM

Thanks for the info Chris. That explains why I have the 8406 controller.

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EFT
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5677367 - 02/13/13 10:25 AM

As someone else suggested, if it is working, you may not need to fix it. However, if the mount is balanced and you are getting increased noise, that is the opposite of what you would expect if the worm mesh is too loose (resulting in too much play in the axes). I suspect the noise increase is a balance issue. If the axis slop is too bothersome, then you will probably need to increase the tension on the spring loading. Over time and with use, I would expect the system to loosen up a bit.

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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: EFT]
      #5677392 - 02/13/13 10:43 AM

Thanks for your input Ed.

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Astronewb
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5677990 - 02/13/13 04:48 PM

Hi, let me add some comments on the play. As others have stated, the RA and DEC worm housings are spring loaded to ensure proper mesh. If you rock the RA or DEC too hard, you can see the whole housing assy moving..that's normal and will introduce a lot of perceived play.

With an ota on the mount..just place your hands on the lens and focuser and very lightly rock it...if you hear a 'clicking noise', there is probably too much play on your housing or your worm. Process is the same on the RA axis, only hold the counterweight and the center of the ota.

With your 7 minute guided subs, as you said, it's probably not a big deal.

To eliminate any excessive play, you would need to disassemble the worm housings. To check for excess play on the RA worm..just remove the cover and hold your finger on the worm pully and housing at the same time..gently rock the top center of the ota,,,if there is excess play you will feel it in your finger as the pully moves away from and back toward the housing. This is worm play, and is adjustable. PM me if you need to do this. Same with the DEC housing

The other area to check while the cover is off is the housing to hinge play..same scenario, but put your finger (or a dial indicator) at the hinge and housing and rock with your other hand very gently..you will feel the play if it is present..if it's a lot, you can actually see it.
If excess play is present, you can loosen the cap screws on just one of the hinges and press it tightly against the housing and retighten. Mark the hinge to housing location with a fine marker line before loosening..just to make sure you retain the proper mesh point.

Hope the info helps someone...

Paul


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: Astronewb]
      #5678017 - 02/13/13 05:06 PM

Paul, thanks for the info. I appreciate it. I'll try the play test when I get home and go from there.

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Phillip Easton
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5678253 - 02/13/13 07:54 PM

Here is a video I made and posted which shows the housing to hinge play, (that Paul posted about), in my mount. This was from the factory and once I corrected it my GOTO's were much, much better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swyO7Emd63w

BTW mine has the modified clutch and the 8406 HC. The 8407 needs new controller boards so it is not an easy upgrade.

Cheers!

Edited by Phillip Easton (02/13/13 08:02 PM)


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: Phillip Easton]
      #5678309 - 02/13/13 08:31 PM

Thanks Phillip!

Yeah I figured it wouldn't be an easy upgrade.


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mgwhittle
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5678612 - 02/13/13 11:45 PM

Actually, it is an easy upgrade and will cost you $120. You just unplug the boards, plug the new ones in and plug in the new hand controller. I did this upgrade but wouldn't recommend spending the money unless you just really want that new hand controller and one of the features it has.

As far as your other issues, Phillip Easton recommendation on getting the henge play and gear mesh adjustment right is really a good idea. It's not hard to do either if you have a bit of mechanical skill and follow iOptrons instructions. I also installed a spring with just a bit more tension on the RA motor housing. I cannot at this point comment on the good sense of doing this.......it has made GOTOs after a meridian flip much better but I am not sure if it is putting too much stress on the motor housing. Time will tell on that one I bet.


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Phillip Easton
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: mgwhittle]
      #5678924 - 02/14/13 08:06 AM

Oops, Mark is right. I chose the wrong word and so left you with the wrong impression. I was using easy as in deciding to spend the money to do the upgrade. The actual swapping of the boards is easy to do. I have attempted to outline the differences between the two on my website if you are interested.

Mark, thanks for the update on the cost. $120 isn't too bad.

Also Paul suggested checking the play and the mesh first, just want to give credit where it is due

Cheers!


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: Phillip Easton]
      #5679391 - 02/14/13 12:50 PM

I took a video of slop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPbYXwVPIoE&feature=youtu.be


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EFT
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5679416 - 02/14/13 01:02 PM

Quote:

I took a video of slop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPbYXwVPIoE&feature=youtu.be




While that looks a bit on the loose side, as long as the worm assembly is moving out from the wheel and not laterally (i.e., side to side), then the action is generally correct. The other video that was linked to earlier seemed to show a lot of lateral movement in the assembly and that would be a real problem, especially with gotos and changing direction.

If the spring tension is not high enough, then the worm will want to slide out of the teeth of the wheel and tilt outward too easily. This would be a problem with an off-balance load as well as when starting a slew, particularly at high speed since the worm would tend to push out momentarily and then slide back into place. The problem is, if the spring tension is too high, then it will excentuate all the flaws in the worm and wheel (which inevitably exist in gear systems). Finding the correct tension is the tricky part. I find that I spend a lot of time playing with a spring loaded system until I am happy with it. While the benefit is less backlash, the adjustment is much more difficult to make than a solid-mounted worm.


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: EFT]
      #5679556 - 02/14/13 01:57 PM

Thanks for the info Ed.

Yeah the worm assembly is only moving out, and not side to side. So as long as I properly balance whatever scope I have mounted I should be alright?


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EFT
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5679566 - 02/14/13 02:02 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the info Ed.

Yeah the worm assembly is only moving out, and not side to side. So as long as I properly balance whatever scope I have mounted I should be alright?




Balance will be important, but if the worm is too loose, then the mass will get you when the mount starts to move, particularly at higher speeds. So you might need to tighten it up if you find it having problems.


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: EFT]
      #5679584 - 02/14/13 02:11 PM

Alright thanks for the info.

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mega256
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5680083 - 02/14/13 07:23 PM Attachment (20 downloads)

zjc26138
Your video looks just like they way my mount is..And mine works great with a C11-hd ,with the 10" extension bar and
the 2 11-lb weights. My goto's and tracking is right on..
I do have the 8407 hc and allways do an electronic balance after doing one by eye.Mine looks and sounds just like your's.Balance is important,as in any mount.

Edited by mega256 (02/14/13 07:27 PM)


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: mega256]
      #5680306 - 02/14/13 10:09 PM

That's good to hear. Beautiful setup by the way. If I had the funds Id spring for a C9.25 or the C11. I wonder if it would be worth while to do the upgrade to the 8407?

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Astronewb
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5680338 - 02/14/13 10:31 PM

Zach, I checked the video several times, your DEC axis is definitely not right,it not only has up and down motion, if you check the video closely..it also has side to side motion. You should be checking with fingertip pressure only.

My mount's DEC, even when gripping the ota like a bat and moving it, has no appreciable play. I would suspect you probably have 3 issues.

1. Your hinge pin holes are elongated, allowing the hinge pin to float around in the hinges.

2. Your hinge pin to housing clearance is excessive.

3. The hinges are misaligned or loose as well.

Your RA seems to be okay...I could tell you were really rocking it, too much in fact..that just cams the worm away from the gear.

Here's an image that illustrates the hinge pin wear:


RA and DEC hinges iEQ45 by Astronewb2011, on Flickr

Here's how you fix it permanently:

RA hinge with bushing installed by Astronewb2011, on Flickr

If your mount is still under warranty, email iOptron for a new set of DEC hinges and replacement instructions.

Regards,

Paul


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: Astronewb]
      #5680501 - 02/15/13 12:46 AM

Thanks again for the info Paul. I'll take another look at my mount in the am and report back.

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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5681225 - 02/15/13 11:31 AM

I took some photo's of the hinges.

RA Motor: http://www.flickr.com/photos/39872531@N05/8476688314/in/photostream/

RA Motor: http://www.flickr.com/photos/39872531@N05/8476688686/in/photostream/

Dec Motor: http://www.flickr.com/photos/39872531@N05/8475598339/in/photostream/

Dec Motor: http://www.flickr.com/photos/39872531@N05/8475598349/in/photostream/

Edited by zjc26138 (02/15/13 11:32 AM)


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5683928 - 02/16/13 05:30 PM

Any thoughts on those pictures?

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mgwhittle
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5684042 - 02/16/13 06:42 PM

One of your DEC hinges looks out of round to me, but you may need to actually disassemble it fully to make sure about all of them. Based on your video, you definately have way too much play on the DEC axis.

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EFT
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5684151 - 02/16/13 07:56 PM

Quote:

Any thoughts on those pictures?




Plenty of thoughts. None of them good.


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: EFT]
      #5684155 - 02/16/13 07:59 PM

That's what I thought. . I guess I'll be calling iOptron on Monday for parts. :/

Time to start saving for an AP900.

Edited by zjc26138 (02/16/13 08:00 PM)


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mgwhittle
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5684170 - 02/16/13 08:12 PM

Quote:

That's what I thought. . I guess I'll be calling iOptron on Monday for parts. :/

Time to start saving for an AP900.




Now you are talking. Once you get a 900GTO you will be spoiled!


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: mgwhittle]
      #5684186 - 02/16/13 08:27 PM

I've never used an AP mount, but I have heard so many great things about them. . It's the only logical choice. Either the 900 or a used 1200.

Edited by zjc26138 (02/16/13 08:28 PM)


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Astronewb
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5684278 - 02/16/13 09:23 PM

Quote:

Any thoughts on those pictures?




Yep..I looked at your DEC hinge pin at full resolution..you have the dreaded 'oval hole' syndrome....:)

When/if you replace the hinges, check the play of the worm itself...it's tensioned by the large brass nut. If it has any side to side play..loosen the 2mm lock screw, and tighten the brass nut with a pair of lock ring pliers (or a couple of small nails, driven through a piece of wood, spaced correctly to fit the holes.) Caution, if you do this, do not overtighten the nut..just screw it in enough to remove the slack.

Cheers, and good luck,

Paul


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: Astronewb]
      #5684344 - 02/16/13 10:13 PM

Thanks for the info Paul. I'm not 100 % sure I should change the dec pins considering I have been able to guide 7 minutes. Though the last few times I haven't been able to go past a few minutes. Though that's my fault/light pollution more than anything. I have all the time in the world to fix the mount now (out of work). I assume they are not to hard to change. I'll give iOptron a call Monday. Hopefully I can get the parts soon. Though with my main imaging scope out of service right now it's not a big hurry.

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orlyandico
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5684651 - 02/17/13 05:33 AM

there's a used 1200 for $8K on the mart.

there was a used 900 CP2 for $5.4k last week. that's less than my mach1. did i regret it.. not really. upgrading to a CP3 would cost $1k.

the only time my mach1 will not be enough for me is if i want to put a CDK12.5 on it. that's not gonna happen till i have a permanent obs.

until that time.. the mach1's 30lb (vs 55lb for the 900) wins.


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zjc26138
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Re: Some issues with iOptron iEQ45m new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5685020 - 02/17/13 11:36 AM

If I was working I probably would have already bought a used 900. Until I have the funds I'll continue to window shop.

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