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galaxy_jason
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Reged: 05/22/07

Loc: Texas
LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing
      #5737454 - 03/16/13 10:05 PM

It would be nice to get some good seeing in North Texas/SE Oklahoma, the seeing monitor of the Clear Sky Clock has been light blue to white for months.

Anyway, took the 14" LX850 to the TAS dark sky site last Wednesday. 100, 30, 30, 30 minutes LRGB, 10 minute subs.
A little soft but not too bad..

http://galaxyphoto.com/high_res/jw_apogee_lx850_m81.jpg


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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
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Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: galaxy_jason]
      #5737484 - 03/16/13 10:21 PM

Nice work, Jason! Holmberg IX is looking good as well.

David


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zjc26138
Loved By All
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Reged: 02/24/05

Loc: Mingo Junction, Ohio
Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5737508 - 03/16/13 10:36 PM

Fantastic image Jason!

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lakeorion
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Reged: 08/03/10

Loc: Lake Orion MI
Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5737516 - 03/16/13 10:43 PM

Nothing mediocre about that picture.

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Mantis707
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Reged: 08/14/12

Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: lakeorion]
      #5737680 - 03/16/13 11:35 PM

ridiculously cool man....congrats

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ahopp
sage


Reged: 05/24/12

Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Mantis707]
      #5738166 - 03/17/13 08:34 AM

Jason, I have the 14" on its way, is yours a production LX850 OTA, a beta LX850 OTA or the original LX800 OTA ?

And, yes, fantastic image...

Tony


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galaxy_jason
Vendor


Reged: 05/22/07

Loc: Texas
Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: ahopp]
      #5738229 - 03/17/13 09:08 AM

Tony it's a prototype, the first 14 with mirror lock but it should be similar to production

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rigel123
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Reged: 06/29/09

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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: galaxy_jason]
      #5738230 - 03/17/13 09:08 AM

Excellent Jason!

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Lee Jay
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: galaxy_jason]
      #5738386 - 03/17/13 10:53 AM

Is it my imagination or do the tracking and collimation appear to be perfect?

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Pak
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Reged: 09/15/12

Loc: The Great Arc
Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: galaxy_jason]
      #5738433 - 03/17/13 11:31 AM

Quote:

It would be nice to get some good seeing in North Texas/SE Oklahoma, the seeing monitor of the Clear Sky Clock has been light blue to white for months.

Anyway, took the 14" LX850 to the TAS dark sky site last Wednesday. 100, 30, 30, 30 minutes LRGB, 10 minute subs.
A little soft but not too bad..

http://galaxyphoto.com/high_res/jw_apogee_lx850_m81.jpg




Great image no doubt. Nobody can doubt Jason's talent.

No way to know however if he used an OAG or really used Starlock. If he did use Starlock, how long did he have to tweak and fiddle with the settings to get it right. How long do those settings last before needing to be tweaked again.
No way to know how many bad subs he had to throw out due to tracking errors.
So as I'v said in the past, while I don't doubt Jason's abilities at all, I do doubt how he arrives at the final image. Can the LX850 produce the image he has shown here, and his previous horse head, YES! I believe it can. My criticism is that we don't know how much easier it was due to the LX850. His response in the other thread leads me to believe that he has abandoned the built in features that are supposed to make this mount different than all the others.
Since the LX850 is a Mach1GTO look-a-like, why not just buy a Mach1GTO? At least you KNOW what you are getting and how well it will perform.




Edited by Pak (03/17/13 11:33 AM)


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Raginar
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Pak]
      #5738470 - 03/17/13 12:05 PM

Pak,

Really? Jason has been pretty up front with what he's doing. He posted on Facebook that he used Starlock if that helps assuage your fears that he's just making things up.

Honestly, do we know what people do to their final images anyways? Most people don't post their work flows, whether they shrunk the stars or used some type of morphological transformation to correct bad tracking.

He produced a good image at a tough image scale from a new mount.


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end
sage


Reged: 08/31/11

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Pak]
      #5738521 - 03/17/13 12:34 PM

Quote:

Since the LX850 is a Mach1GTO look-a-like, why not just buy a Mach1GTO? At least you KNOW what you are getting and how well it will perform.




Right, you know that the Mach1GTO has no chance to carry a 14" scope and its accessories.


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Pak
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Reged: 09/15/12

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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Raginar]
      #5738522 - 03/17/13 12:34 PM

Quote:

Pak,

Really? Jason has been pretty up front with what he's doing. He posted on Facebook that he used Starlock if that helps assuage your fears that he's just making things up.

Honestly, do we know what people do to their final images anyways? Most people don't post their work flows, whether they shrunk the stars or used some type of morphological transformation to correct bad tracking.

He produced a good image at a tough image scale from a new mount.




The point I am trying to make is that the LX850 is marketed and advertised as being able to reduce the frustration involved with beginning AP by including automatic or semi-automatic mechanisms to achieve results that others spend a lengthy time to achieve. Since Jason is an expert, the results he can and will achieve are automatically better than the results I can achieve. That goes without saying. So when he posts those images I have no way of knowing how he got there. Where did the mount fail, where did it excel? Where did the mount make things easier and faster and where did it not? These questions have not been answered. People need to understand that it is unlikely that they will be able to buy an LX850, put it all together and 30 minutes later start imaging with results that meet or exceed the expectations that this thread promises. Jason is probably a swell guy but he is a Meade insider and long time beta tester. Obviously Meade treats him well and in return I am sure he treats Meade well.

Caution is my recommendation. Let not everyone rush to place their orders based upon Jason's posts but instead wait a bit to see what real end users report.




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Pak
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Reged: 09/15/12

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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: end]
      #5738528 - 03/17/13 12:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Since the LX850 is a Mach1GTO look-a-like, why not just buy a Mach1GTO? At least you KNOW what you are getting and how well it will perform.




Right, you know that the Mach1GTO has no chance to carry a 14" scope and its accessories.




Right, and I am not sure the LX850 does either. We will know more when Tony gets his set up and reports back. That is a LOT of weight on that mount. Do you not recall what happend on the LX80? Good for *half* of its advertised carrying capacity. Again, I recommend caution. Lets wait and see.



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budman1961
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Reged: 02/25/11

Loc: Springfield, MO
Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Pak]
      #5738597 - 03/17/13 01:18 PM

Pak,

Were all adults here, and we really dont need you to give us more "let's wait and see" troll posts. Most of us have been following these LX800/850 posts from the very beginning, and are more than able to draw our own conclusions.

Why not go back to wherever you came from, with your Nike shoes and canteen full of cool-aid.

You are in no way being helpful.

Andy

Edited by budman1961 (03/17/13 01:29 PM)


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germana1
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: budman1961]
      #5738607 - 03/17/13 01:22 PM

+1

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germana1
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Reged: 05/14/09

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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: budman1961]
      #5738613 - 03/17/13 01:24 PM

+1

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Pak
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Reged: 09/15/12

Loc: The Great Arc
Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: germana1]
      #5738649 - 03/17/13 01:48 PM

Guys Pan-STARRS is not Hale Bopp. There is no space ship with the Meade logo coming to take you someplace better. The more people show up to blindly defend Meade the more my point is proven.



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budman1961
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Pak]
      #5738698 - 03/17/13 02:10 PM

FYI Pak, there is no hyphen in Panstarrs....... Moreover, Koolaid is the proper spelling from your other valueless post.

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blueman
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Pak]
      #5738702 - 03/17/13 02:11 PM

These images were taken with a prototype, I think it is prudent to see what a real production unit can do, don't you?

If they all work as well as this one, then Meade has made a great comeback.
Blueman


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Whichwayisnorth
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: blueman]
      #5738728 - 03/17/13 02:22 PM

I agree with blueman and I'll add that it is as important that their new equipment perform well out of the gate but it also needs to last all the way around the track. Can they do it? I for sure hope so. I have a lot of money tied up with Meade right now. While I have no loyalty to Meade and also own Celestron products (8" EdgeHD hopefully next week), I am feeling good about the LX850. Now I need Jason to come to California and teach me how to do that.

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WadeH237
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Reged: 02/24/07

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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: end]
      #5738905 - 03/17/13 03:29 PM

Quote:

Right, you know that the Mach1GTO has no chance to carry a 14" scope and its accessories.




This argument drives me crazy. Of course a Mach1 can carry a 14" SCT, without even breaking a sweat. Do you really think that Meade's manufacturing process is so superior to Astro-Physics, that they can somehow make a copy with more than twice the capacity of the original?

You need to take the manufacturer ratings with a grain of salt. Astro-Physics is very conservative about their ratings; Meade, not so much.

I have heard of people running Mach1's at over 100 lb with no problems.


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Lee Jay
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Pak]
      #5738935 - 03/17/13 03:38 PM

Quote:

Guys Pan-STARRS is not Hale Bopp. There is no space ship with the Meade logo coming to take you someplace better. The more people show up to blindly defend Meade the more my point is proven.




What is it with Meade bashers?

My first two scopes were Celestrons. The first was so bad that it killed my interest in the hobby for 30 years. The second which I bought to replace the first was so bad I sent it back after a week. Then I bought my Meade and it was so great that it rekindled my love of the hobby. Does this make me a Celestron basher? Well I just sold my Meade to get something bigger and bought - you guessed it - a Celestron on a Skywatcher mount!

The point being that some past bad experiences with Meade (or other) equipment shouldn't make up your mind to be a basher of all of that company's equipment.

The fact is that this is a solid image of a not-so-easy target made with a Meade 14" scope on a Meade mount guided by a Meade guiding system.


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ahopp
sage


Reged: 05/24/12

Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Lee Jay]
      #5738970 - 03/17/13 03:51 PM

Pak, I do not think that what you are saying is necessarily wrong. I think it is how you go about saying it.

When I get my 14" I could post fake images that say how great the mount is, or, for attention, I could post images that show it to be a piece of junk. But, we have to trust each other. I trust Jason because he appears to be a profession chap with a real interest in sharing info. If he violated that trust then we can step on his neck.

So, Pak, stay positive, even if you are skeptical. We will do the same...

Tony

P.S., Jason is not the only one who has posted great images with the LX850 mount. check out the link below:

http://www.meade4m.com/index.php?/gallery/category/14-lx850-photography/


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Griffin!
sage


Reged: 09/12/10

Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: ahopp]
      #5738991 - 03/17/13 04:00 PM

Gotta love how heated Meade threads become, regardless of whether there's success or failure.

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Raginar
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: ahopp]
      #5738996 - 03/17/13 04:03 PM

Blueman,

Jason posted in another thread that he no longer has the pre-production mount. He's using a factory model now.


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Mkofski
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: budman1961]
      #5739002 - 03/17/13 04:08 PM

+1

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Pak
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Lee Jay]
      #5739011 - 03/17/13 04:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Guys Pan-STARRS is not Hale Bopp. There is no space ship with the Meade logo coming to take you someplace better. The more people show up to blindly defend Meade the more my point is proven.




What is it with Meade bashers?

My first two scopes were Celestrons. The first was so bad that it killed my interest in the hobby for 30 years. The second which I bought to replace the first was so bad I sent it back after a week. Then I bought my Meade and it was so great that it rekindled my love of the hobby. Does this make me a Celestron basher? Well I just sold my Meade to get something bigger and bought - you guessed it - a Celestron on a Skywatcher mount!

The point being that some past bad experiences with Meade (or other) equipment shouldn't make up your mind to be a basher of all of that company's equipment.

The fact is that this is a solid image of a not-so-easy target made with a Meade 14" scope on a Meade mount guided by a Meade guiding system.





If I am coming across as a Meade basher it is not my intent. My only intent is to point out some of the unknowns and to call into question the answers given.

Like most people I would like Meade to succeed. I want each and every LX850 and LX600 owner to be incredibly happy with their choice.

However blind faith and devotion, especially towards a company that hasn't earned it, is cause for concern. There is a reason I am fixated on the cult analogy and that is it seems to fit. People seem to blindly trust certain people and I think a more measured and cautious approach is warranted.

As I have pointed out Jason is a Meade insider who posts images taken with above par versions of the LX850 and claims that Starlock should make up for any sub-par versions others should get. But then he goes on to say that the Starlock auto calib, drift alignment and PEC are something he isn't familiar with or doesn't use. That is pretty serious in my opinion. We have another report from someone with two posts so far on CN and his posts read like a review that has been checked off by Meade. The other example we have is from Glen who had his up for a few days before he went on the road traveling. So far those are the only results I know I can count on. I look forward to other reports. I want to see Tony's results since he will have the 14" version and the 80mm mounted at the same time. If things go well for him then that will be something to really take note of. I wish him the very best.


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Pak
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: ahopp]
      #5739024 - 03/17/13 04:21 PM

Quote:

Pak, I do not think that what you are saying is necessarily wrong. I think it is how you go about saying it.

When I get my 14" I could post fake images that say how great the mount is, or, for attention, I could post images that show it to be a piece of junk. But, we have to trust each other. I trust Jason because he appears to be a profession chap with a real interest in sharing info. If he violated that trust then we can step on his neck.

So, Pak, stay positive, even if you are skeptical. We will do the same...

Tony

P.S., Jason is not the only one who has posted great images with the LX850 mount. check out the link below:

http://www.meade4m.com/index.php?/gallery/category/14-lx850-photography/




Under no circumstances do I believe the images are faked at all. I am simply suggesting that the images specifically from Jason represent the best the LX850 has to offer under those conditions (bad seeing). I call into question how many subs had to be tossed not because of seeing or weather but from tracking issues. I recall Jsnuff1 when he had the LX800 reporting that he had to toss a lot of subs due to tracking errors. I also call into question how good of a mount you are going to get vs the mount Jason got. If his represents the best of the best, who gets the worst of the worst? What will those results be? Having a sample of 3 or 4 people isn't enough to answer that question.


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Raginar
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Pak]
      #5739032 - 03/17/13 04:24 PM

Pak,

Jason has stated he doesn't have the pre-production mount anymore. He also stated (at least on Facebook) that he's using Starlock and some of the automated routines to good success.

How about we stop assuming the mount is a POS and assume the LX850 works? I don't see your posts in the AVX thread where people thought the mount was going to be awesome and are now experiencing electrical issues and balance problems.

Ahopp sounds like he is almost full-up with his LX850. Hopefully, his analysis of the mount will be enough to quell your doubts.

Are you planning on buying one? Or just someone who had a bad experience with a Meade product?

And, you're right. 6k is nothing to sneeze about. I thought about getting one when it was still the LX800 but all the troubles moved me a different direction. Maybe when it's a little more mature. I still find it fascinating to watch a new mount be unveiled. It's cool to see where it was (in the LX800 threads) to where it is now (Jason's pictures).

The only thing I wish I could see is a full setup/picture session. Like a Google+ hangout where someone has a camera setup and just goes through all the routines. I think of all those 'doh' moments when I was learning how to setup my CGEM and wonder if it's as easy as it seems it should be!


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Pak
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Raginar]
      #5739063 - 03/17/13 04:37 PM

Quote:

Pak,

Jason has stated he doesn't have the pre-production mount anymore. He also stated (at least on Facebook) that he's using Starlock and some of the automated routines to good success.




Alas, I do not use facebook.
Quote:



How about we stop assuming the mount is a POS and assume the LX850 works?






I am not assuming anything. That has been and shall remain the point of my post. I am asking people not to assume anything. Good or bad.

Quote:


I don't see your posts in the AVX thread where people thought the mount was going to be awesome and are now experiencing electrical issues and balance problems.





I have not heard about any balance problems other than one guy who was doing it wrong and figured it out. The electrical problems are with the HC boxes as far as I know of. As an owner of a AVX I am watching it closely but so far I'd say the AVX is incredible.

Quote:



Ahopp sounds like he is almost full-up with his LX850. Hopefully, his analysis of the mount will be enough to quell your doubts.





That is what I am hoping for too.
Quote:


Are you planning on buying one? Or just someone who had a bad experience with a Meade product?




I am in the market. I have another post from earlier in the week asking about mounting an 11" EdgeHD to a Mach1GTO. However since the M1GTO and the LX850 look nearly identical I am curious about how it is really doing and not just the hype.
Quote:



And, you're right. 6k is nothing to sneeze about. I thought about getting one when it was still the LX800 but all the troubles moved me a different direction. Maybe when it's a little more mature. I still find it fascinating to watch a new mount be unveiled. It's cool to see where it was (in the LX800 threads) to where it is now (Jason's pictures).

The only thing I wish I could see is a full setup/picture session. Like a Google+ hangout where someone has a camera setup and just goes through all the routines. I think of all those 'doh' moments when I was learning how to setup my CGEM and wonder if it's as easy as it seems it should be!




Paging Micheal... Google+ hangout STAT!


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Whichwayisnorth
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Pak]
      #5739077 - 03/17/13 04:43 PM

LOL well I would love to do that actually. If it is one thing I enjoy it is .. ok if there are two things I enjoy, one of them is posting up.. OK if there are THREE things I enjoy, one of them is posting youtube videos and the second is google hangouts.

I'll need to clear everything with Meade to make sure I am not violating any agreements but I don't think it'd be an issue. First though I need Meade to send me my stuff.


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galaxy_jason
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Reged: 05/22/07

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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #5739186 - 03/17/13 05:25 PM

10 subs in luma, 3 each in RGB. One of the RGB frames was rejected right after pier flip (I forget which color). I think there is still a little flexure in my image train that settles out after a flip.

All frames were median combined in Maxim DL with DDP stretch and a very light decon.

No OAG was in the system, starlock guiding only. Collimation and squaring of the camera is very critical with ACF as well as RC scopes, I am seeing some preliminary images from others with these issues and I am still tweaking it myself. Don't confuse out of round stars due to collimation with guiding errors.

I did of course use pixy dust and a little help from some guy on a grassy knoll.


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Lee Jay
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: galaxy_jason]
      #5739224 - 03/17/13 05:39 PM

Quote:

I did of course use pixy dust and a little help from some guy on a grassy knoll.




Oh, well there you go!


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herrointment
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Lee Jay]
      #5739231 - 03/17/13 05:41 PM Attachment (23 downloads)

What is a grassy knoll?

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Raginar
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: herrointment]
      #5739527 - 03/17/13 07:53 PM

WWIN, I can't wait for that. Can you post the date/time in the #astrophotography forum? It'd be really cool to see.

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Whichwayisnorth
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Raginar]
      #5739530 - 03/17/13 07:56 PM

Quote:

WWIN, I can't wait for that. Can you post the date/time in the #astrophotography forum? It'd be really cool to see.




Just click the little red icon below and add me. I'll add you back and when I am hosting something I'll send out an invite. Keep in mind that at least for now I am not set up with an LX850 as it is in boxes. When *cough* I get my new system set up I'll make sure Meade is going to be cool with me doing a full show and tell. I am reasonably sure they will be. NDA's don't cover publicly available information. As long as it is public knowledge I am in the clear.


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Raginar
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #5739617 - 03/17/13 09:18 PM

Cool. Thanks!

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blueman
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Raginar]
      #5739834 - 03/17/13 11:31 PM

Oh, I see, I thought I read that it was still the prototype. Must have misread it.
Blueman
Quote:

Blueman,

Jason posted in another thread that he no longer has the pre-production mount. He's using a factory model now.




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galaxy_jason
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: blueman]
      #5739931 - 03/18/13 12:57 AM

Sorry, I am now using a production mount and a prototype OTA.

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Mantis707
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing *DELETED* new [Re: Pak]
      #5739949 - 03/18/13 01:17 AM

Post deleted by Mantis707

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Lorence
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Mantis707]
      #5740000 - 03/18/13 02:25 AM



Until the 850 has proven itself to be what Meade claims it to be, it will be subject to criticism. Meade brought that down on themselves.

This is an open forum, not a popularity contest. If you don't like what you read here you are free to ignore it.

Thank you for your opinion Pak. I appreciate someone who is not afraid to stand up against the majority. You may be right or you may be wrong. Time will tell. You were right in expressing your opinion, I can't say the same for a few others.

Edited by bilgebay (03/19/13 02:45 PM)


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Hilmi
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Lorence]
      #5740014 - 03/18/13 02:43 AM

I respect Pak's opinion too, I think what has so many people upset is the tone it was written in. Also, net etiquette, typing something in bold writing and bright color is almost the same as shouting at somebody. So, I agree with Pak about being cautious, but i dissagree with him about how he said it. I believe that is what has everybody upset.

So, can we continue this discussion, but in a civil tone and stop accusing people of being either shills or trolls.


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Mantis707
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Lorence]
      #5740028 - 03/18/13 02:56 AM

speaking his mind about a product he hasnt seen?

implying reviewers are using OAG to phony images?

self admitted that he is fixated on this product?


i fail to see how this input is of any merit whatsoever and i see zero that Pak has added to my insight of this matter.


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bilgebayModerator
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Mantis707]
      #5740086 - 03/18/13 04:39 AM

Gents,

Here is a brand new moderator. I would love to introduce myself on a better opportunity but alas....

Please be nice to each other and keep sharing your experiences and opinions.

Name calling is not allowed as per the TOS. So, please refrain from doing this.

Thank you all

Sedat


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zehnmm
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5740361 - 03/18/13 10:05 AM

All I can say is --- coming from someone who has never owned a Meade product --- that I hope Meade is successful. I find the concept of the LX850 to be very enticing. When a reasonably sufficient number of users share their experience (sort of like scientific experiments....) then folks like me might be willing to jump in.

And, Pak, I value reading your comments. But, for heavens sake, lose the green text and the undesirable tone.


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bilgebayModerator
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: zehnmm]
      #5740367 - 03/18/13 10:08 AM

"And, Pak, I value reading your comments. But, for heavens sake, lose the green text and the undesirable tone. "

+1

Tx

Sedat


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Pak
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5740443 - 03/18/13 10:49 AM

Yesterday was Saint Patricks day. You know, green? Leprechauns? Three leaf clovers?

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Pak
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Mantis707]
      #5740454 - 03/18/13 10:55 AM

Quote:

speaking his mind about a product he hasnt seen?




I've seen it just as much as you have. Why is your opinion valid and mine isn't?

Quote:


implying reviewers are using OAG to phony images?





Again, stop putting words into my mount. I never said that nor did I imply. I simply said that it could have been done and there would be no way to know.

Quote:


self admitted that he is fixated on this product?

i fail to see how this input is of any merit whatsoever and i see zero that Pak has added to my insight of this matter.




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David PavlichAdministrator
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Lorence]
      #5740507 - 03/18/13 11:23 AM

Quote:



Until the 850 has proven itself to be what Meade claims it to be, it will be subject to criticism. Meade brought that down on themselves.

This is an open forum, not a popularity contest. If you don't like what you read here you are free to ignore it.

Thank you for your opinion Pak. I appreciate someone who is not afraid to stand up against the majority. You may be right or you may be wrong. Time will tell. You were right in expressing your opinion, I can't say the same for a few others.




You are absolutely correct...to a point. In this case, however, this particular member is driving it into the ground. One post, sure, two, ok, but beyond that, it becomes tiresome and boorish. We all have the ability to figure out what a person's opinion is without it being repeated over and over and over again and in different threads. That is WAY beyond expressing one's opinion.

David

Edited by bilgebay (03/19/13 02:54 PM)


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bilgebayModerator
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Pak]
      #5740560 - 03/18/13 11:50 AM


Pak, thank you for changing from bold green font back to normal characters. This is way better.

Quote:

Yesterday was Saint Patricks day. You know, green? Leprechauns? Three leaf clovers?




Nope, I don't know. I am coming from a completely different culture and we do not observe St. Patrick's day here. Would you mind explaining what you mean by your statement above via PM for which I will be thankful to you. I know what a Leprechaun is but how a Lep fits into our context is not clear to me.

Thanks

Sedat


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Pak
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5740595 - 03/18/13 12:15 PM

Quote:


Pak, thank you for changing from bold green font back to normal characters. This is way better.

Quote:

Yesterday was Saint Patricks day. You know, green? Leprechauns? Three leaf clovers?




Nope, I don't know. I am coming from a completely different culture and we do not observe St. Patrick's day here. Would you mind explaining what you mean by your statement above via PM for which I will be thankful to you. I know what a Leprechaun is but how a Lep fits into our context is not clear to me.

Thanks

Sedat




Yes I do mind. The reason I mind is that a moderator should not be taking sides in a discussion or argument. If I am violating the TOS of this forum then I should be privately reprimanded and asked to edit or delete the offending post.

This forum is hosted and sponsored by Astronomics. They are an American company. I too happen to be an American. Growing up here in the U.S. we make note of St. Patricks day and while some take it more seriously than others, it was common to make an attempt to wear green. Stores stock up on
things like corned beef and cabbage. People go out drinking . Kids build and set Leprechaun traps. In an increasingly secular society many of these things have gone by the way side. Since I am of Irish heritage I decided that my posts would be in green yesterday and my first few posts had a little Leprechaun at the bottom.

If people want to attack my spelling, punctuation, grammar and the color of my font, they are more than welcome to.

I didn't change back to normal text because I was asked, I changed back because the holiday was over.


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Hilmi
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Pak]
      #5740626 - 03/18/13 12:32 PM

Look, i didnt realize the green was related to a special occasion, my appologies.

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bilgebayModerator
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Pak]
      #5740667 - 03/18/13 12:57 PM

Quote:

The reason I mind is that a moderator should not be taking sides in a discussion or argument.




How do you reach this conclusion ?

Quote:

And, Pak, I value reading your comments. But, for heavens sake, lose the green text and the undesirable tone




The statement I agreed to is above. There is one positive and one negative comment there. I don't see it as siding with anyone. If this is how you inferred it, then please believe me that it was not my intention.

I may be a moderator but I am a member too... and I value this more than being a moderator. Being a moderator isn't a reward or anything like that. I know this because I have been moderating several local forums since many years. It is a serious undertaking. In order not to add insult to the injury, I should be allowed to voice my opinion at least, don't you think so ?

Thank you for explaining the St. Patrick's Day habits. I agree with you that we are losing a lot of those old rituals no matter what society we are in.

Enough digression, let's go back to the original topic now.

Clear skies


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Phil Cowell
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Pak]
      #5741486 - 03/18/13 07:22 PM

Some of us wear orange on St Patricks Day
Phil


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Mantis707
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5741502 - 03/18/13 07:30 PM

(should be responding to the post above , by Pak..., dont know how to fix that)

I have never opined one thing about this product...so I am not sure what opinion you are talking about.

I only posted in here to thank the people who were reviewing the products (who actually know about them and have used them)...no matter what their results, as I truly appreciate people doing that service for the rest of us.

Edited by Mantis707 (03/18/13 07:32 PM)


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korborh
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Lorence]
      #5741770 - 03/18/13 09:11 PM

Quote:


Thank you for your opinion Pak. I appreciate someone who is not afraid to stand up against the majority. You may be right or you may be wrong. Time will tell. You were right in expressing your opinion, I can't say the same for a few others.




+1


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EFT
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: korborh]
      #5742700 - 03/19/13 11:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Thank you for your opinion Pak. I appreciate someone who is not afraid to stand up against the majority. You may be right or you may be wrong. Time will tell. You were right in expressing your opinion, I can't say the same for a few others.




+1




+1


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DaveJ
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: EFT]
      #5743429 - 03/19/13 04:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Thank you for your opinion Pak. I appreciate someone who is not afraid to stand up against the majority. You may be right or you may be wrong. Time will tell. You were right in expressing your opinion, I can't say the same for a few others.




+1




+1




-2


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Orionis91
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: DaveJ]
      #5743591 - 03/19/13 05:55 PM

Dude that is such a nice picture!!!

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ahopp
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Orionis91]
      #5744234 - 03/19/13 11:07 PM

Jason, What are you using for mount control on the LX850? I plan on getting TheSkyX Pro w/Tpoint and Camera AddOn, unless you have another recommendation that I should consider.

Tony


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jimb1001
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Pak]
      #5744313 - 03/20/13 01:20 AM

You are certainly entitled to your negative opinion.
However, implying a poster is probably lying or deliberately misleading doesn't take more than one post.


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Mkofski
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: jimb1001]
      #5744390 - 03/20/13 02:35 AM

Quote:

You are certainly entitled to your negative opinion.
However, implying a poster is probably lying or deliberately misleading doesn't take more than one post.




+1


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freestar8n
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5744509 - 03/20/13 04:52 AM

I think that if the intent is to convey that this scope/mount system is working well, then it would be much more informative to present quantitative performance metrics based on raw data rather than processed images.

This system, along with the earlier lx800, is I think unique in amateur astronomical imaging in relying on minimal flexure to image well in long exposures. When the guiding system is sold entirely separate from the main optics then it is up to the user to use OAG or an add-on guidescope - and to keep the flexure to a minimum. But in an integrated system the flexure is built in - and becomes an important specification that can be quantified in arc-seconds per minute.

I have battled flexure with sct's and consider it a key problem, along with centroid accuracy, that limits the results people get with reflective optics in long exposures - and I offer unique features in MetaGuide to allow the direct measurement of flexure in different parts of the sky so it can be quantified and methodically reduced.

Although people focus on the primary mirror as the culprit, an sct with its long focal length and magnifying secondary can have many sources of internal flexure, including even some distortion of the corrector plate holding the secondary.

The impact of flexure depends on the length of the exposure and the size of the stars in the image. For 4" fwhm and 5m exposures, they would start to look oblong at perhaps a flexure rate of 0.2" per minute - which is achievable. But for 2" fwhm in 10 minutes, it would be more like 0.04" per minute and that is much harder.

Regarding the "guiding accuracy" it is stated at something like "1 arc second." I'm not sure how that relates to the achievable fwhm. For example - if a skilled person with an expensive system is getting 2" fwhm - what would this system achieve? 3"? 4"? How does "1 arc second" translate to the penalty you get in guiding compared to a system guiding at the limits of seeing?

I don't know if anyone will state values for the flexure rate - but I sure hope they are measuring it and using it as a guide to improve the mirror locks or whatever. You can get it directly from a long series of guided images as long as you don't dither and you are polar aligned well. I personally would be measuring it all over the sky since the rate can be orientation dependent.

If they do solve flexure and end up with a system that can be used at long focal length for long exposure narrow band - that's great - and I'll be very interested to see how they did it. Even rc's and cdk's with fixed primaries and expensive mechanics tend to be guided with OAG - but there are exceptions.

Frank


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Whichwayisnorth
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Re: LX850 M81 in mediocre seeing new [Re: ahopp]
      #5745066 - 03/20/13 12:40 PM

Quote:

Jason, What are you using for mount control on the LX850? I plan on getting TheSkyX Pro w/Tpoint and Camera AddOn, unless you have another recommendation that I should consider.

Tony




Meade has had the mount in the hands of a developer working on ASCOM drivers for about a month now. I am not sure how much longer before they are released however.

That having been said I have been told quite a few times that using the generic classic lx200 ASCOM drivers should work. You won't have full functionality but you will have the basics like go-tos.

The way that Starlock works you'll have to turn off the Starlock HPP if you are going to use t-point. Which is exactly what I'll do too. I must have a bad driver install because I've not been successful at getting the aforementioned ascom driver to work with The Sky X. I came up with a work around to get me by until the official drivers are released. I'll give it another shot though once my mount arrives.


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