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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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Hilmi
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Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: zytrahus]
      #5885990 - 05/26/13 06:09 PM Attachment (33 downloads)

what is reaIly impressive is that the stars look exactly like how the excel Sheet predicted they would

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Hilmi
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Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: Hilmi]
      #5888441 - 05/28/13 07:34 AM

OK, now I am confused. The PE has been revalidated with PEMPro and polar alignment has been validated as within 0.2 arc min yet My unguided images of lets say 8 min show far more streaking than can be explained via PE. Is this flex from the Vixen dovetail?

Last attempt showed stars that where more like a line rather than an oval


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blueman
Photon Catcher
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Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: Hilmi]
      #5889068 - 05/28/13 02:18 PM

Quote:

OK, now I am confused. The PE has been revalidated with PEMPro and polar alignment has been validated as within 0.2 arc min yet My unguided images of lets say 8 min show far more streaking than can be explained via PE. Is this flex from the Vixen dovetail?

Last attempt showed stars that where more like a line rather than an oval




You are probably seeing flexure, either in the SCT or the mounting of the guide system. I am unsure whether you are using an OAG or not.
Blueman


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Hilmi
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Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: blueman]
      #5889152 - 05/28/13 03:11 PM

Looks to have been user error. Today I updated the firmware to the correct version (last time I installed older firmware by mistake) and it seems to be tracking fine. This is unguided imaging as my guider is has gone for a bit of R&M.

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Hilmi
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Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: Hilmi]
      #5889291 - 05/28/13 04:16 PM

Turns out it is possible to image unguided at long focal lengths on the G11. The following test image was done WITHOUT careful balancing of the mount, WITHOUT GUIDING and WITHOUT PEC. The image scale is aprox 0.6 Arc sec per pixel and this image was a single 4 minute (1 worm cycle) exposure without any processing other than stretching and in camera noise reduction. Please note that the Astrobin image is full resolution so it might take time to load the full image.



Edited by Hilmi (05/28/13 04:24 PM)


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WesC
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 02/06/13

Loc: La Crescenta, CA
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: Hilmi]
      #5889571 - 05/28/13 07:13 PM

That looks pretty good!

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zytrahus
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/16/09

Loc: Long Beach, CA
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: WesC]
      #5889952 - 05/28/13 10:59 PM

very nice indeed!

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Hilmi
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Loc: Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: zytrahus]
      #5890145 - 05/29/13 02:08 AM

I had a big smile on my face when I saw that picture. Too bad the clouds didn't allow me to do a longer test. I am planing to try again tonight.

The Mclennan gearbox is coming in tomorrow, but I will not be able to install it till next week as I am going camping this Friday and I doubt I will get enough time to modify the gearboxes in 1 day to fit the mount especially considering I am supposed to be shopping for my camping rations on Thursday after work.


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dawziecat
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: Hilmi]
      #5890256 - 05/29/13 06:44 AM

Wow!! At 240 secs and 1625mm unguided, that's just fantastic!

Congratulations!


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Hilmi
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Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: dawziecat]
      #5890261 - 05/29/13 06:53 AM

Terry, I still bet it's not good enough to make you regret buying the AP1100

But yes, I was amazed. Today I found somewhere hidden on the www.gemini-2.com site how to actually make the PEC curve you create in PEMPro stick to the Gemini II. I will try that process today and see how round the stars turn out after that. There is still some elongation. It's not much, I know that with stacking most of it will go away but I still want to see how round I can get the stars to be natively without processing. That might even be a collimation defect and not a tracking issue.


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dawziecat
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: Hilmi]
      #5890533 - 05/29/13 11:13 AM

Quote:

Terry, I still bet it's not good enough to make you regret buying the AP1100




Well, I'm still waiting of course and likely will be for quite some time yet. My cheque book is ready . . . but A-P is not.

If I thought I could ever come close to your results at 4 min and 1625mm, I likely would have never considered a more costly mount.

In the meantime, I play with my RAPAS!


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gdd
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/23/05

Loc: N Seattle suburb, WA
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: dawziecat]
      #5890696 - 05/29/13 01:01 PM

Hi Hilmi,

Great results! PEC may take you the rest of the way.

I have been getting good results with my OPW on M51 with 3 minute exposures at 1000mm with my Canon 350D when I remember to tighten everything down, get a good PA, and maintain consistant east side bias with my string/weight contraption. I did one 6min exposure by mistake that had slight trailing due partly to drift.

Gale


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Hilmi
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Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: gdd]
      #5890776 - 05/29/13 02:04 PM

Gale I'm not done yet. I still have the gearbox replacement then the ballance tuning. I also have a sticky main dec bearing to work on.

Only then will I be happy.


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pfile
Post Laureate


Reged: 06/14/09

Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: Hilmi]
      #5891207 - 05/29/13 07:38 PM

Quote:

I no longer have any regrets buying the G11 other than the time wasted troubleshooting.




that's the thing though, how many months have you been at this? i think new users need to be aware of this.

regardless, congratulations are in order for what you've achieved. nice work.


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Raginar
Postmaster
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Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: pfile]
      #5891282 - 05/29/13 08:28 PM

Rob, he's been at this now for about 9 months. And, it's taken significant tinkering to get it to this level (ovision, new worm block..).

I guess the biggest take away is that you can do it if you're willing to spend the cash. That's something you can't say about a CGEM or an iEQ45 since they lack the upgrade path.

Hilmi, that's an awesome picture.

Edited by Raginar (05/29/13 08:36 PM)


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gdd
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/23/05

Loc: N Seattle suburb, WA
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: Raginar]
      #5891322 - 05/29/13 08:52 PM

Hi Hilmi,

Did you start out with the standard wormblocks or the OPWB?

Gale


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zytrahus
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/16/09

Loc: Long Beach, CA
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: Hilmi]
      #5891606 - 05/30/13 12:03 AM

Quote:

Terry, I still bet it's not good enough to make you regret buying the AP1100

But yes, I was amazed. Today I found somewhere hidden on the www.gemini-2.com site how to actually make the PEC curve you create in PEMPro stick to the Gemini II. I will try that process today and see how round the stars turn out after that. There is still some elongation. It's not much, I know that with stacking most of it will go away but I still want to see how round I can get the stars to be natively without processing. That might even be a collimation defect and not a tracking issue.




if you got a link for that PEC trick ^_^ I am interested


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Hilmi
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Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: zytrahus]
      #5891666 - 05/30/13 01:10 AM

Gale,

I started out with the OPWB, which theoretically should be able to give good results but is just too picky about adjustment.

Stephen,

I did not get a chance to validate if this works, but basically, after you train PEC in PEMPro, you go to the Gemini ASCOM driver at the bottom right of your windows screen. You right click on the Gemini icon and choose advanced settings. Under advanced settings, you go to the bottom of the screen and you will find a little tick box that says "include PEC data" then click apply. This will download all your settings from the driver to the mount including the PEC curve. Yesterday I forgot to do a test by powering off the mount and restarting it, but I did confirm that the PEC buttons where visible in the hand controller after I selected this option.

Pfile, my advice with future G11 buyers with dreams of imaging is not to waste time and budget for the Ovision worm upgrade right from the start. It is my personal opinion that unless you are imaging at short focal lengths, this is a mandatory upgrade. I am not sure, but I even feel the slewing is quieter after installing the new worm.


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orlyandico
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Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: Hilmi]
      #5891771 - 05/30/13 03:35 AM

i'm not so sure about that. i know someone who has a stock G11 and his measured PE is way less than 10" p-p.

he's imaging quite happily with it, no tweaks or anything.


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Hilmi
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Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
Re: Ovision upgrade new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5891774 - 05/30/13 03:39 AM

At what focal length is he imaging and what pixel size?

At the pixel scale I had, with a smooth PE curve of 16 arcseconds peak to peak I still had elongated stars because the original worm gear seemed to be more sensitive to bad balance and wind due to the excessive backlash I had to leave to get that smooth PE curve.

On the other hand, with this upgrade, I had yesterday imaged one of my best images in terms of star roundness unguided. Once I get my guide came back, I bet I can get even tighter stars.

At 360 mm, I was able to image with the original worm gear unguided. I suspect that it would also work very well up to around 1000 mm, but honestly, at the 1600mm - 2000mm, the original worm gear and OPWB were no fun to use and almost made me quit the hobby. There have also been variable reports of recent worm gears being sub par. Maybe I had been unfortunate to have those worm gears (including the replacement one that i had ordered to replace the one I damaged while trouble shooting the mount).


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