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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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frito
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/05/12

Loc: Fremont, CA
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts new [Re: FlyBD5]
      #5940448 - 06/25/13 08:43 PM

i will only say this,i'm the third owner of my CG-5 AGT, when i got it i assume it had the original firmware V4.10, one of the oldest versions that exist. the manual i got also reflects this. from my rough research my mount is probably 5-6 years old if not older. my adjustment bolts are all fine, yes i've taken them out completely, they are not bent.

yes i want to replace them but only because they are a real pain to use, esp the north facing one at my lat of 37 N the electronics cover gets in the way of being able to use the flip thingy adjuster on it if i don't make sure to flip it before turning it too far one way.

Edited by frito (06/25/13 08:44 PM)


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spencerj
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 11/17/04

Loc: Londonderry, NH
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts new [Re: rmollise]
      #5941096 - 06/26/13 09:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:


No, Rod, that just means you haven't heard of it. The issue is so well known that you can buy upgrade kits on eBay to specifically deal with this issue of substandard bolts.






If that's your belief, that's fine. My experience is different.




Who is this Uncle Rod fella? He talks like he has seen a CG-5 or two, but I doubt he knows pea-turkey about classic C8's. It's not like he wrote the book on them.


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Cliff Hipsher
Pooh-Bah
***

Reged: 12/31/08

Loc: North Chesterfield, VA
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts new [Re: spencerj]
      #5941114 - 06/26/13 09:40 AM

Speakin' of cheesy latitude bolts, has anyone considered using a worm gear arrangement to adjust latitude? In other words, replace the adjustment bolts with a worm shaft and cut threads on the latitude stub... And why wouldn't the same thing work for Azimuth?

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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts new [Re: Cliff Hipsher]
      #5941201 - 06/26/13 10:42 AM

It's a low use mechanism- and at most should be getting used once per session. Sure, you could jazz it up all the way to making it a motion platform with motors and encoders. And that would double the cost of the mount.

-Rich


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DaveJ
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/07/05

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts new [Re: spencerj]
      #5941248 - 06/26/13 11:05 AM

Quote:

Who is this Uncle Rod fella? He talks like he has seen a CG-5 or two, but I doubt he knows pea-turkey about classic C8's. It's not like he wrote the book on them.




Good one!


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
*****

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts new [Re: Cliff Hipsher]
      #5941338 - 06/26/13 12:06 PM

Quote:

Speakin' of cheesy latitude bolts, has anyone considered using a worm gear arrangement to adjust latitude? In other words, replace the adjustment bolts with a worm shaft and cut threads on the latitude stub... And why wouldn't the same thing work for Azimuth?




There are definitely upper-level mounts that use better adjustment systems for the latitude, but such luxuries come with a price.


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FlyBD5
sage
*****

Reged: 02/12/13

Loc: Boston MA
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts new [Re: EFT]
      #5941561 - 06/26/13 02:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Speakin' of cheesy latitude bolts, has anyone considered using a worm gear arrangement to adjust latitude? In other words, replace the adjustment bolts with a worm shaft and cut threads on the latitude stub... And why wouldn't the same thing work for Azimuth?




There are definitely upper-level mounts that use better adjustment systems for the latitude, but such luxuries come with a price.




I agree, but when it comes to bolts like these, the difference can't amount to more than $3-4, at most.


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
*****

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts new [Re: FlyBD5]
      #5941585 - 06/26/13 03:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Speakin' of cheesy latitude bolts, has anyone considered using a worm gear arrangement to adjust latitude? In other words, replace the adjustment bolts with a worm shaft and cut threads on the latitude stub... And why wouldn't the same thing work for Azimuth?




There are definitely upper-level mounts that use better adjustment systems for the latitude, but such luxuries come with a price.




I agree, but when it comes to bolts like these, the difference can't amount to more than $3-4, at most.




These are 5 cent bolts. They can definitely be better (if nothing else at least smoother). The problem actually goes beyond the bolts to the fact that they are threaded through relatively thin cast aluminum which wears quickly when used frequently. The contact angles on the plate where the adjustment bolt pushes is also an issue. Better systems run the bolts through solid machined aluminum or brass, even better systems use some type of cam system and the best systems use a worm or rack and pinion setup. Some systems use moving or moveable tongues or even moveable RA housings to provide for different latitude adjustments. Numerous ways to get to the same result, this is just the cheapest way.


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Cliff Hipsher
Pooh-Bah
***

Reged: 12/31/08

Loc: North Chesterfield, VA
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5941607 - 06/26/13 03:19 PM

Quote:

Sure, you could jazz it up all the way to making it a motion platform with motors and encoders. And that would double the cost of the mount.

-Rich




"Jazzing it up" as you put it is not the idea. The idea is to make the latitude adjustment more robust, more reliable, and easier to use.

As they are now, latitude and azimuth adjustment mechanisms (if in fact you can call then mechanisms..) are a joke.

With the advancements in technology we see in the latest mounts, one could easily compare using these "mechanisms" to the crank starting your car.

What really surprises me is updating to a simple worm gears is infinitely more elegant and not all that expensive.


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SergeC
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/23/12

Loc: Gainesville, FL
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts new [Re: Cliff Hipsher]
      #5941824 - 06/26/13 05:39 PM

Don't you just love when someone complains endlessly about the quality of a mass-produced, entry-level product?

I was third owner of my (now gone) CG5. I got the ScopeStuff altitude replacement knobs, but took them off and re-installed the original flipper bolts. I found I could get much better torque with less effort (and thus easier adjustment - and isn't that the whole point?) with the flipper bolts.

The mod I found most useful was two-fold: I put a 1/32" layer of Slick Strip tape on the tripod head, and replaced the azimuth knobs with ball-end knobs with a toggle thrust pad (the M6X1.0, 45mm stud length, 15mm thrust pad). I had to sand down the thrust pad to fit within the mount cavity, but the resulting force distribution over a larger area on the azimuth pin made for ultra-smooth and almost effortless azimuth adjustment. Have done the same on my CGEM.


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Cliff Hipsher
Pooh-Bah
***

Reged: 12/31/08

Loc: North Chesterfield, VA
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts new [Re: SergeC]
      #5941844 - 06/26/13 06:01 PM

Quote:

Don't you just love when someone complains endlessly about the quality of a mass-produced, entry-level product?

I was third owner of my (now gone) CG5. I got the ScopeStuff altitude replacement knobs, but took them off and re-installed the original flipper bolts. I found I could get much better torque with less effort (and thus easier adjustment - and isn't that the whole point?) with the flipper bolts.

The mod I found most useful was two-fold: I put a 1/32" layer of Slick Strip tape on the tripod head, and replaced the azimuth knobs with ball-end knobs with a toggle thrust pad (the M6X1.0, 45mm stud length, 15mm thrust pad). I had to sand down the thrust pad to fit within the mount cavity, but the resulting force distribution over a larger area on the azimuth pin made for ultra-smooth and almost effortless azimuth adjustment. Have done the same on my CGEM.




OK, you got me, and I think I'll look into these mods for my mount.


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FlyBD5
sage
*****

Reged: 02/12/13

Loc: Boston MA
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts new [Re: Cliff Hipsher]
      #5941885 - 06/26/13 06:25 PM

I suppose everything is relative, but a $700+ mount is not entry-level, especially when you consider that there are dozens of less expensive mounts that can certainly be classified as truly entry-level. Anyway, the azimuth bolts are not a big deal, they're not nearly under as much stress as the altitude bolts.

So does anybody know the procedure to open up the knuckle joint to get inside and remove the piece of bolt that broke off?

Edited by FlyBD5 (06/26/13 06:28 PM)


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frito
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/05/12

Loc: Fremont, CA
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts [Re: FlyBD5]
      #5942002 - 06/26/13 07:18 PM

for a tracking goto EQ mount 700 is entry level but keep in mind the CG-5 AGT is no longer 700 as the AVX has replaced it and new CG-5's are now 550 by far making it one of the cheapest and still the best bang for your buck at the budget level but it does have flaws and limitations, its an old and cheap design.

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SergeC
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/23/12

Loc: Gainesville, FL
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts [Re: frito]
      #5942036 - 06/26/13 07:42 PM

Yes, there are tons of less expensive mounts, none of them GoTo. Doesn't matter if it's Celestron, Meade, iOptron, Orion, etc., the $700-800 range WAS the entry level price for a GoTo, but as Dwayne pointed out above that entry price is now at $550.

If I was still doing mostly visual I'd have kept my CG5. Great payload capacity for a relatively lightweight mount that was easy to take into the field, very accurate GoTos, comparatively low power consumption (meant fewer deep cycle batteries to lug along to the remote sites). I would recommend one to anyone looking for a grab-and-go mount for primarily visual, especially at the new lower price.


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FlyBD5
sage
*****

Reged: 02/12/13

Loc: Boston MA
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts [Re: SergeC]
      #5942179 - 06/26/13 09:35 PM

Like I said, it's all relative. This is exactly the same thing people say about the NexStar mounts. And so it goes.

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts [Re: RTLR 12]
      #5942284 - 06/26/13 10:57 PM

They should be used before the saddle is loaded with a payload. With lots of counterweight and a heavy payload the thin bolts are doing a fair amount of work when being turned. Unloaded it should be almost impossible to bend or break one.

- Jim


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cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5942523 - 06/27/13 04:49 AM

What I don't understand is how people manage to break or bend these screws. Don't they notice that the adjustment is getting difficult to move. Do they keep going until something breaks rather than stopping and finding out what is happening?

Chris


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Cliff Hipsher
Pooh-Bah
***

Reged: 12/31/08

Loc: North Chesterfield, VA
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5942697 - 06/27/13 09:03 AM

Quote:

They should be used before the saddle is loaded with a payload. With lots of counterweight and a heavy payload the thin bolts are doing a fair amount of work when being turned. Unloaded it should be almost impossible to bend or break one.

- Jim




OK, so I'm doing a 2 star (Polar) alignment with my LXD75. I have the mount in the Polar Home position, I press Enter, and the mount slews to Polaris. I hear a beep and the handbox prompts me to use the alt and az bolts to adjust the mount to get Polaris centered in my eyepiece.

My question is, if I'm not supposed to use the adjustment bolts with an OTA mounted, how do I get Polaris centered in the eyepiece?


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Cliff Hipsher
Pooh-Bah
***

Reged: 12/31/08

Loc: North Chesterfield, VA
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts [Re: cn register 5]
      #5942704 - 06/27/13 09:10 AM

Quote:

What I don't understand is how people manage to break or bend these screws. Don't they notice that the adjustment is getting difficult to move. Do they keep going until something breaks rather than stopping and finding out what is happening?

Chris




I've known some really smart people who were, shall we say, "mechanically challenged"? As a case in point, I served with a Chief Machinist Mate who would quote engine room equipment specs, repair procedures, operating procedures, and such, but the Chief Engineer had to order him not to touch any tools...


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FlyBD5
sage
*****

Reged: 02/12/13

Loc: Boston MA
Re: Pathetic CG-5 latitude adjustment bolts [Re: cn register 5]
      #5942718 - 06/27/13 09:18 AM

Quote:

What I don't understand is how people manage to break or bend these screws. Don't they notice that the adjustment is getting difficult to move. Do they keep going until something breaks rather than stopping and finding out what is happening?

Chris




This happens exactly the way it happens to others, and is perfectly logical. The bolts get bent under conditions where they should not, and of course I noticed they were hard to turn. When that happened to me I checked the web to see if I could understand what was going on, and I found multiple references to the exact same issue. I then carefully worked the bolt trying to get it to come out so I could replace it with a stronger one, but it is a CHEAP, SOFT GRADE 5 BOLT that should not have been used in the first place. During the process of extracting it, it came about about half the distance, and then it broke.


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