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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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Tim
sage
*****

Reged: 08/04/04

Loc: North of Toronto
Re: NJP Takahashi Mount used or go new new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5965582 - 07/11/13 11:55 AM

Hi orlyandico - it does come with three counter weights and cassidy saddle and a tripod camera one I think that was rated for 100lbs I dont think the tripod was a TAK. The fellow that owns it is at least the second owner and has used it lots and lots he has been taking photos with it that have exposure of 8-12 hours over several days so the mounts getting a work out. Do these mounts wear out - gears etc and electric motors - I know they last and are well built, but surely dont last forever or a lifetime like some would tell you? - too bad telescope mounts didnt track number of hours in use.

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andysea
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 09/03/10

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: NJP Takahashi Mount used or go new new [Re: Tim]
      #5965663 - 07/11/13 01:06 PM

Hi Tim,
I don't know what the current version of Tak align shows. However the one that I have exactly matches the polarscope reticle in my NJP. All I do is level the bubble level (Which has to be calibrated correctly, that is a one time operation) and then put polaris where Tak align shows it. That's all. It's a 2 minute process and you are aligned for imaging.
Even in the event that the reticle looked slightly different all you care about is the hour angle of polaris. Once you get that from Tak align you are good to go.
The tak reticles AFAIK are all the same concept. The bubble level on the RA axis makes it so that you don't have to level the tripod.
All this talk about the NJP makes me want to take mine out of storage:)

Andy


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Hikari
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/05/11

Loc: Maine, USA
Re: NJP Takahashi Mount used or go new new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5966187 - 07/11/13 06:40 PM

Quote:

Ah.. well I really can't see what Tak provides that AP does not... and AP is cheaper. Better support. Lower depreciation. US company. The only downside is that some of their mounts have a waiting list. I believe no more Mach1's till 2014.




I prefer Japanese designs over US. And that is the problem, AP mounts need support and Takahashi mounts do not. As far as depreciation, these are not financial instruments--I would recommend stocks if you want to invest. Which makes it rather a moot point as the mount will last a lifetime and I really don't care what I would get for it in an estate sale, if you claim about depreciation is even true.


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WadeH237
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: Snohomish, WA
Re: NJP Takahashi Mount used or go new new [Re: Hikari]
      #5966328 - 07/11/13 08:41 PM

Quote:

AP mounts need support and Takahashi mounts do not.




Huh?



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orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: NJP Takahashi Mount used or go new new [Re: WadeH237]
      #5966471 - 07/11/13 10:33 PM

Yeah that's really funny. Go over to Tak Uncensored and see all the "call Art" posts. And regarding depreciation - just go check astromart for prices of used Taks vs used AP's. Taks depreciate A LOT more. And this is not about estate sales - if ever you re-sell because you're upgrading, that depreciation will matter - just ask the guy selling to Tim! I bet he's upgrading to a Paramount.. or encoder-equipped AP mount..

Tim - regarding wear and tear - the NJP is a truly ancient design, its original incarnation came out in 1979. That said, they don't really wear out. There are some cases where the bearings need replacement due to corrosion but that's not terribly common.

See this post on UncensoredTakGroup from April 2012 - http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/UncensoredTakGroup/message/58831

"Well, I bit the bullet and sent the mount, all 50 lbs of it, to TNR. Art called me a few days later and informed me they had found the trouble. The mounting block bearings on the RA had rust spots. The mount should be coming back soon, I trust in tip- top shape."

So much for "Tak mounts not needing support." I really suggest you join UncensoredTakGroup and search for all the potential issues on the NJP. I'm quoting from an email sent to me by Bill Dean, it would answer some of your concerns.

I've always been a big fan of the NJP mount. The half dozen or so I've had experience with were work horse instruments but I don't think anyone I know has kept one around. Everyone seems to have moved on to a PME, A-P 1200, or ASA mount. Hard to say what age brings but I suspect nothing terrible in the case of the NJP as they aren't exactly known for slewing around wildly all night.

and

I doubt there would be an issue with gears just turning away while tracking. The issues with wear typically present themselves after a good deal of high speed sewing with a heavy load or more often after getting banged around in transport and setup and teardown. Given the usage, I'd think it would be a pretty safe bet.

For $5500 I would really suggest go find a used Mach1 (you really have no choice because you can't buy a new Mach1 till 2014). You can get a Mach1 with a saddle, weights, and ADATRI for around $5500. You'd still need a tripod, so the cost would be slightly more than the NJP. Do note that the Mach1 came out in 2007.. so even a used one will not be that old.

The Mach1 may not carry as much as the NJP on paper, but it is a much more modern mount. I don't know if this is valuable to you - but you cannot command GoTo slews from the Tak handpad (it is a simple directional handpad), you need a PC or tablet to do that.

Note that the NJP is 70lb rated, the Mach1 is 45lb rated. However there's a guy here who claims a Mach1 can carry 100lb for visual. And the Mach1 has worm wheels that are the same size as those on the NJP.

I am not very sure of the Tak ratings because Jerry Lodriguss says the EM-200 is overloaded with a C11 - the EM-200 is 35lb rated, the C11 weighs 27lb, so.... it seems Tak weight ratings aren't as reliable as AP's.

Note that I am not claiming the Mach1 has a comparable weight rating to the NJP - I do not think so. What I am claiming is that they aren't as far apart as the on-paper ratings suggest. That said I'd never put more than 40lb on my Mach1.

On the other hand, if you can bargain the NJP seller down to $4.5K range, that's an extra $1000 over a used Mach1, and in that case the NJP would be worthwhile. The Tak wood and metal tripods are 250lb rated, so whatever tripod that is, isn't worth very much. I would not pay more than $4.5K considering that they can sell for $4K.


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Alterf
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/07/06

Re: NJP Takahashi Mount used or go new new [Re: Tim]
      #5966600 - 07/11/13 11:49 PM

PM sent to Tim.

Val


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andysea
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 09/03/10

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: NJP Takahashi Mount used or go new new [Re: Alterf]
      #5966723 - 07/12/13 01:37 AM

The gears on the NJP are silicon bronze. I am not sure how long it would take to wear them out. I seem to remember a post from someone who had the mount in an observatory. They never released the clutches and the wheel ended up wearing out unevenly. This would probably not be an issue for most users.
In the event that the bearings wear out, they can be replaced very easily and they are very inexpensive.
That being said, if I had to choose between Tak and AP, at the same price, I would go with the AP without batting an eye.
I own both.
Andy


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kevin M13
sage


Reged: 03/07/09

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: NJP Takahashi Mount used or go new new [Re: orlyandico]
      #6121340 - 10/06/13 09:21 PM

Agree with the quality of the NJP T2. Not sure a 900 would image for 2 minutes+ unguided at 2800mm. My NJP will, and the polar alighnment scope is a dream to the AP type I used before. I like the new Paramounts though.

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orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: NJP Takahashi Mount used or go new new [Re: kevin M13]
      #6121660 - 10/07/13 01:54 AM

I saw the periodic error from an NJP T2 it was about +/- 2".

Since the Tak mounts don't have PEC, that's as good as it's going to get.

An AP900 (or Mach1) would have anywhere from +/- 2" to +/- 3.5" periodic error. But they have PEM. And a good PEM training with PEMPro will drop that PE to +/- 0.5" or even less. So yes, I'm sure anything an NJP can do unguided, an AP900 can do better.

p.s. another used NJP came out on a-mart last week. $3.8K. These are really a great deal if you buy them used. But AP900's are now dropping to $6 - 6.5K level...


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