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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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Cliff Hipsher
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Reged: 12/31/08

Loc: North Chesterfield, VA
Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: RTLR 12]
      #6023041 - 08/13/13 02:06 PM

Quote:

Cliff,

Are you really going to base your purchase on this one instance?

Stan




Not entirely. However, it is easier for me to accept someone missing an obscure "bug" in code than it is for me to accept missing something as basic is the thing won't power up....


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bilgebayModerator
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Cliff Hipsher]
      #6023076 - 08/13/13 02:19 PM

There should be a fuse inside the plug, have you checked that ?

I was told by Celestron's Lance, who is in charge of the mounts, that most of the AVX failures were caused by low or wrong voltage. I have been using mine for the last 4 months without a glitch. Gotos are incredible dead on. I love this mount!

Edited by bilgebay (08/13/13 02:21 PM)


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Ultron
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Reged: 08/11/12

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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Dave M]
      #6023195 - 08/13/13 03:07 PM

Are you reading 12V at the back of the power plug with power on? If it drops when you turn on power, it could be a bad supply. I'd try a different supply. Also, did you say the power plug has wires and has a connector on the end that plugs into the power board? If so, unplug the connector, if its a female connector on the cable, poke some metal paper clips in there (make sure no power connected when you set this up, and keep them away from each other) and put your test leads on the paper clips. If you get 12V once you plug it in, that would tell you the cable and plug is ok.

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cn register 5
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Reged: 12/26/12

Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Ultron]
      #6023264 - 08/13/13 03:36 PM

I'm not sure why people post this sort of thing here, even before contacting the supplier. We can't make it work, the suppler has a responsibility to do so.

Chris.


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Dave MModerator
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: cn register 5]
      #6023404 - 08/13/13 04:31 PM

Because someone else may experienced the same issue and had a simple/immediate remedy.

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Laminarman
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Reged: 08/25/06

Loc: New York
Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Dave M]
      #6023426 - 08/13/13 04:41 PM

12v with the power on. Not taking it further than that simply because it's new and they're replacing it. Were it a year old and out of warranty, then I'd really start looking into it but there's no reason to do that with something that should simply power up brand new.

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Ultron
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Laminarman]
      #6023557 - 08/13/13 05:34 PM

Glad you are able to swap it out. Missed the post about you contacting OPT. Hopefully the next one works out.

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Laminarman
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Ultron]
      #6025526 - 08/14/13 04:47 PM

Update: Vinnie at OPTCorp sent out a new Advanced VX head as soon as I gave him a tracking number for the returned defective unit. Will keep you posted.

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amicus sidera
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: cn register 5]
      #6026566 - 08/15/13 06:48 AM

Quote:

I'm not sure why people post this sort of thing here, even before contacting the supplier. We can't make it work, the suppler has a responsibility to do so.

Chris.




In my opinion, the OP's experience is exactly the sort of thing that should be posted here.

A defect which occurs after a mount has been in use for some time is one thing; an out-of-box failure is quite another. The latter strongly suggests that the mount left the factory in non-working condition, which does not speak well for the level of quality control surrounding it. Speaking out about unpleasant experiences such as this is of great benefit to the amateur community, and should be encouraged... after all, does anyone think that the manufacturers are going to tell us how many returns they're faced with on a given piece of equipment?

Fred


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MartinTreadgold
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Reged: 04/17/13

Loc: Netherlands
Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6026600 - 08/15/13 07:36 AM

To the defence of Celestron here, we tend to hear about when things go wrong, rather than when things go right. I have an AVX and it works brilliantly so far.

Electronic hardware manufacturers do their best to make perfect products, but in reality it doesn't always work like that. This is why there is a warranty scheme and a returns process in place.

I work for a big named camera manufacturer, I specifically deal with repair management.

No manufacturer in their right mind will ever publish their defect ratios, unless they are legally obliged to if say the return amount reaches over 5% of all product sales, i.e. a recall of the product.

However, forums like this one are useful to the manufacturer, if when things go wrong, the person complaining about a situation, constructively does so with evidence, photo's, measurements, full description of the problem. It is really helpful.

But too often, people just complain in a non-constructive way, which can put people off from buying the product.

To put things into perspective, celestron don't have a major issue, yes, there maybe some unlucky people out there who have a fault, it is something to expect. But the total amount of returns is probably less than 1%.

The AVX is a fantastic product, and Celestron are a nice bunch of people to know, I have met some of their guys at the Photokina trade fair in Cologne last year in september, they were very helpful, and I got to chat about new products, including the AVX at the time.

I have full confidence that if my AVX breaks, they will get it repaired.

Best Regards

Martin


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amicus sidera
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: MartinTreadgold]
      #6026719 - 08/15/13 09:16 AM

I was unaware that Celestron was in need of defense, as my stated concerns were hardly an attack upon them; however, it appears that their inspection procedures regarding this mount might possibly need to be looked at.

I seriously doubt that the mount in question stopped working between the time it left the factory and the time the OP plugged it in; hence, it likely left the factory in that condition. This calls into question the level of quality control involved, as one would assume that a final test of each mount would be performed to assure its viability. Warranties are all well and good, but their use in the absence of strict measures to assure that customers receive working units rings rather hollow.

Fondness for Celestron and their products is also all well and good, but a failure such as this must be looked at for what it is: a failure.

Fred


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Cliff Hipsher
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Reged: 12/31/08

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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6026850 - 08/15/13 10:29 AM

I agree with Fred. What would tend prevent this sort of thing from happening is the inclusion of a final QA inspection sheet with someones signature and printed name on it.

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rmollise
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6026906 - 08/15/13 10:57 AM

Quote:




In my opinion, the OP's experience is exactly the sort of thing that should be posted here.

A defect which occurs after a mount has been in use for some time is one thing; an out-of-box failure is quite another. The latter strongly suggests that the mount left the factory in non-working condition, which does not speak well for the level of quality control surrounding it. Speaking out about unpleasant experiences such as this is of great benefit to the amateur community, and should be encouraged... after all, does anyone think that the manufacturers are going to tell us how many returns they're faced with on a given piece of equipment?

Fred




Some telescope companies may test every single mount, but not ones I could pay for.

Frankly, not every single widget is tested by QA in any mass production setting.

I think it's fine to post things like this here. Especially if there is a chance of helping the poster. However, one dead mount (if that was indeed the case) is no reason to run screaming into the night.

Maybe most important is the seller's and the manufacturer's response. That's what I look for. I know the level I buy at; it is not the caviar level. Every single Meade and Celestron amateur level scope I have bought over the last 20 years has had problems major and minor. Every single one of them was fixed, however, and in the end I feel that I came out ahead of the game. If I can't buy AP or Tak, that's what I know I face. And it has been OK.


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amicus sidera
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: rmollise]
      #6026970 - 08/15/13 11:36 AM

I disagree; the cost of a simple final inspection to at least assure that the mount powers on would not be the least bit prohibitive. Any low-level QC employee could be tasked with it, and it would add little to the final price. Conversely, enough out-of-box failures could easily lead to a loss of market share which would make the pittance spent on final inspection pale in comparison.


Oh, and I haven't seen anyone "run screaming into the night" on this thread; at least not yet. We'll see what happens when the fanboys show up...

Fred


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Dave MModerator
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Laminarman]
      #6027043 - 08/15/13 12:11 PM

I`m willing to bet the replacement takes care of the problem..

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rmollise
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6027136 - 08/15/13 01:00 PM

Quote:

I disagree; the cost of a simple final inspection to at least assure that the mount powers on would not be the least bit prohibitive. Any low-level QC employee could be tasked with it, and it would add little to the final price. Conversely, enough out-of-box failures could easily lead to a loss of market share which would make the pittance spent on final inspection pale in comparison.


Oh, and I haven't seen anyone "run screaming into the night" on this thread; at least not yet. We'll see what happens when the fanboys show up...

Fred




You may disagree, but that's not how anybody I know of runs a QA program. It would not be economically feasible. The goal of QA is to sample a certain number of units coming off the line, thus reducing the number of DOAs. At some point you hit just the proper balance of cost vice defective units. That point is not "test every unit." Not in a mass production setting.


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Cliff Hipsher
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Reged: 12/31/08

Loc: North Chesterfield, VA
Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: rmollise]
      #6027159 - 08/15/13 01:15 PM

Quote:



You may disagree, but that's not how anybody I know of runs a QA program. It would not be economically feasible. The goal of QA is to sample a certain number of units coming off the line, thus reducing the number of DOAs. At some point you hit just the proper balance of cost vice defective units. That point is not "test every unit." Not in a mass production setting.




Rod makes a very valid point. 1 for 1 QA eats up the bottom line, and in times like these, every penny counts, ON BOTH SIDES.... As long as the vendor makes it right at no cost to the customer, then we're good..


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DaveJ
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO [Re: rmollise]
      #6027167 - 08/15/13 01:20 PM

Quote:

You may disagree, but that's not how anybody I know of runs a QA program. It would not be economically feasible. The goal of QA is to sample a certain number of units coming off the line, thus reducing the number of DOAs. At some point you hit just the proper balance of cost vice defective units. That point is not "test every unit." Not in a mass production setting.




You are absolutely correct. I recall a problem in a statistical analysis college class years ago where a company wanted to know how many flash bulbs would have to be randomly selected and tested to guarantee that no more than 0.5% would fail in the hands of consumers. Obviously, flash bulbs (one-time use then discard for those kiddies out there that grew up with electron flashes) could NOT each be tested.


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Jarrod
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO [Re: DaveJ]
      #6027239 - 08/15/13 01:52 PM

Bottom line is that it's cheaper for Celestron to replace the odd defective mount than it is to pay someone to power up every unit all day every day just to find the the 1/1000 that have an issue. For the most part, they are just wasting their time verifying that 99.9% of them work. It's simple economics, and it's what we want them to do. Otherwise the mount would cost significantly more. Just imagine the effort that would be required to test every component that could have an issue on every mount before it leaves the factory.

I concede that it doesn't feel like a very clever strategy when you are the one that ends up with that one lemon, but if you look at the bigger picture I think it makes sense.


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amicus sidera
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO [Re: DaveJ]
      #6027292 - 08/15/13 02:17 PM

I ran the Quality Control department (NOT Quality Assurance - that's just the "lite" version of the real thing) at a major electronics manufacturing company for many years; I can assure you that the Final Test department was kept quite busy checking each and every finished unit for basic function before it left the factory, which added only a very few minutes labor to the job ticket per item, but which paid huge dividends; defects were caught before the unit was sent to the customer, who would be understandably unhappy that their brand-new equipment had arrived DOA. I saw to this final inspection both personally and by means of the inspectors under me, and with the full blessing of both the board of directors and the accountants. These were not terribly expensive units, either; the point was that the customer was paying for a working unit, and it was our obligation to see that they got one, warranty notwithstanding; this is still the standing policy at this very successful firm.

Folks, please do not attempt to tell me that it would prove too costly to briefly inspect every single unit for power-up and basic function; I worked in this field for most of my life, and am well aware of the cost/benefit ratios involved. Of course, if a company desires to cut corners and dispense with a final inspection of their product, and in effect let their customers do it for them, that is their business... however, I would refuse to carry water for them, and neither would I purchase their products, as they would have demonstrated to me that they are scornfully disrespectful of my right to have my purchase be functional as and when received.

There was a time when it was highly unusual to purchase any astronomical equipment that was non-functional as received; the fact that the complexity of the articles has increased has no bearing on the fact that a new unit should work straightaway, and attempts to justify situations such as the OP has presented, on whatever basis, carry no weight with me whatsoever.

Fred


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