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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #6141513 - 10/16/13 06:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Meade, feel free to copy & paste that statement and send a check in the mail asap.




Complete and total speculation. Posting such might be interpreted as fact and further confuse casual readers. I certainly wish the speculation would stop. I have no horses in this race as I have no desire, whatsoever, to purchase this or any other version of this mount. In the interest of those that are interested, such speculative comments have no purpose at all.




This isn't speculation but an example of the kind of statement I would like to see from Meade pertaining to the LX80 and warranty repair. I was pretty clear on that and if the casual reader doesn't understand that then too bad.




Michael,

I agree that Meade should make some preliminary statement about the future of the LX80. One that is factual even if it is vague.


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ur7x
sage


Reged: 01/08/12

Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #6141554 - 10/16/13 06:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Not that I' doubting this Micheal, but do we have anything that substantiates this news? I can find no links about the VM1 anywhere (other than the LX80 news group and they say they got the news here)... Is this just speculation too?




Here is what I know for a fact. No speculation at all.
The LX80 is dead.
They still like the idea behind the LX80
Meade engineers have built their own LX80 and completely overhauled it with much better parts.
The name they came up with is VM-1. (I have no idea what it means)
There are a few prototypes down in Mexico and the firmware for it is pretty much complete if not already complete as I type this. Same guy who writes all their code has had the VM-1 and Max2 for a while now and has been busy with them.
Before the merger got underway, it was Meades intention to get them out for beta testing about two weeks ago. However the new people asked to pause while everything is evaluated and certified.
I personally know of two of their potential beta testers for the VM-1 and neither of them has one and neither of them has heard when they will get it.





Saddly we have nothing in writing... nothing official.... no supporting documentation... I'm sensing some LX80 launch deja vu...

Since we all seem to be guessing here. Let me add that VM1 probably stands for one of:
1) Variable Mount 1
2) Versatile Mount 1
3) Vapor Mount 1
4) Very Meade 1
5) Very Messy 1
6) Virtual Mount 1
7) Vigorous Marketing 1 or
8) Two letters and a number as far from L, X and eighty as marketing could come up with.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #6142590 - 10/17/13 10:10 AM

This is speculation, I'm afraid. A few guys in Tijuana took a 3rd party Chinese sourced lx80 and modified it with some prototype parts they made there and called it a VM-1 while the takeover was underway.

But you have to look at where the company is, now. The lx800 relaunch is just started- they need to see what they can make. Any smaller mount has to be something either NS's plant in China can be stood up to make, or TJ can be stood up to make, or will be some sort of NS+ TJ effort. It's likely a lot of capital for jigs, die casting molds, and setting up a line is essentially happening from scratch. The original LX80 tooling very possibly is not owned by Meade, so they may be forced to work totally from scratch. They do have a hole in the lineup, but if they're going to more of a clean sheet response, there may never be any LX80 compatible parts coming.

Meade hasn't promised there will be an LX-80 fix after the buyout, and their letter yesterday didn't suggest this is coming, either. So, it really is speculation to claim this is still coming.

-Rich

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Meade, feel free to copy & paste that statement and send a check in the mail asap.




Complete and total speculation. Posting such might be interpreted as fact and further confuse casual readers. I certainly wish the speculation would stop. I have no horses in this race as I have no desire, whatsoever, to purchase this or any other version of this mount. In the interest of those that are interested, such speculative comments have no purpose at all.




This isn't speculation but an example of the kind of statement I would like to see from Meade pertaining to the LX80 and warranty repair. I was pretty clear on that and if the casual reader doesn't understand that then too bad.




Edited by Starhawk (10/17/13 12:15 PM)


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DuiA1
super member


Reged: 05/07/12

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: Starhawk]
      #6180248 - 11/07/13 12:35 AM

Any new news on this? Have been looking to read some. I must say this has been disappointing to date . Am I the only one who is impatient?

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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: DuiA1]
      #6180256 - 11/07/13 12:42 AM

Dui,

I'm getting impatient too! The only thing I have heard is that we probably won't hear anything for a few more weeks.

Mike


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rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: Mkofski]
      #6180502 - 11/07/13 08:23 AM

You will be lucky and I will be surprised if it is only "weeks." Still, I am told this may happen.

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Jmax
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 09/28/10

Loc: Alabama
Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: rmollise]
      #6180761 - 11/07/13 10:52 AM

I hope it does. Meade, please listen! I have been a staunch supporter, but we need this situation corrected for our future trust in your company as you make a new start.

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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: rmollise]
      #6181407 - 11/07/13 04:30 PM

Quote:

You will be lucky and I will be surprised if it is only "weeks." Still, I am told this may happen.




Are you at liberty to reveal your source. A hint maybe?


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rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: Stew57]
      #6182510 - 11/08/13 09:20 AM

Quote:



Are you at liberty to reveal your source. A hint maybe?




You can bet that anything I'm told on this subject will be in confidence. But, again, I can say it looks like they at least intend to do something about the 80. I don't know that that means "writ in stone," of course.


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WesC
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/06/13

Loc: La Crescenta, CA
Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: rmollise]
      #6183503 - 11/08/13 07:05 PM

Well, that will be welcome news to LX80 owners.

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DuiA1
super member


Reged: 05/07/12

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: WesC]
      #6302648 - 01/09/14 05:54 PM

Figure I would start the new year with some hope.... I have been waiting so patiently for some word of inspiration from Meade on this topic. I am so disappointed this has not yet come. Can a Meade rep be so kind to respond on this forum and give us any news? I really want to use my LX 80 to do guided AP. Will this happen before Q1? Or call it a bust and move on with another mount?

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EuropaWill
sage
*****

Reged: 02/12/09

Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: DuiA1]
      #6302728 - 01/09/14 06:38 PM

What we early adoptor LX80 owners need is a trade-in program to completely return this mount for a replacement. I've been waiting for months as well. Consumers shouldn't be beta testers and if a manufacturer discontinues a mount 1 year later and leaves their customers blowing in the wind, that does not make for good relations. There aren't that many LX80's shipped, so this is a relatively small problem for them to correct. If they dont, they can be sure lots of negative press will continue to dog them for years for not doing the "right thing". This is an opportunity to change perception. Are you listening Meade?

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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: EuropaWill]
      #6303235 - 01/09/14 11:14 PM

Why? If there is a Meade VM-1 or whatnot offered tomorrow, they'll sell the same number without an upgrade path as they would if they blew a lot of cash buying back LX80s they have no conceivable use for.

-Rich

Edited by Starhawk (01/11/14 10:23 PM)


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orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: Starhawk]
      #6303261 - 01/09/14 11:30 PM

sad but true. The LX80's out there are only probably worth their parts.. a couple hundred bucks at best. Meade's new Chinese masters might decide it's cheaper to just antagonize existing owners, much as Ford did with the Pinto in the 1970's.

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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: orlyandico]
      #6304553 - 01/10/14 04:14 PM

To all of you that have watched the Meade LX80 saga unfold here, I've decided to sell my mount. Not because of the mount itself but I just had back surgery and it is just too heavy for my old back. Hope to see Meade address the mount in the future but I'll be watching as an observer from her on out.

The iOptron z25 is withing the weight limit of what my doctor says is Ok for me to move around so that what I'm going to stay with for now.

If I get any info from Meade, I'll pass it along here.

Mike


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EuropaWill
sage
*****

Reged: 02/12/09

Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: Starhawk]
      #6306178 - 01/11/14 01:00 PM

Quote:

Why? If there is a Meade VM-1 or whatnot offered tomorrow, they'll sell the same number without an upgrade path as they would if they blew a lot of cash buying back LX85s they have no conceivable use for.

-Rich




Actually, I dont think they will sell many at all due to bad blood unless they address their LX80 failures and customers. There are only so many bridges a company can burn before they lose customers for life. I'm at that point now. There is a saying 80% of your business comes from 20% of your customers. That suggests repeat business from loyal customers as the bread and butter for a company. I've bought quite a bit from Meade over the years (thousands) and I'm sure I'm not alone. If they abandon the early adoptor LX80 owners who are orphaned with a mount that didn't work to specs during the warranty period and doesn't work after their 1 year warranty expires then that would be the 2nd Meade goto mount i've been burned on. I'm not complaining about a lack of features. I'm talking about the mount just not working (slipping gears, lurching gears, poor tracking, counter balance shaft extensions unscrewing by themselves, etc...) and not living up to it's weight capacity claims.

I'll add that they should extend the warranty to 3 years for all current LX80 as the mount was rushed out and sold prior to being ready for primetime, and they should offer the upgrade as a very low cost option.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: EuropaWill]
      #6307160 - 01/11/14 10:18 PM

I feel for you. But LX80 customers weren't going to be VX-1 customers no matter what:

(A) If they felt they had a great mount, they wouldn't want the same thing under a new name.

(B) If they hated the LX80 and are mad at Meade as a result, they can't be counted on to buy another Meade product, no matter what it is.

(C) If they have an LX80 they aren't happy with, but want a free VX-1 in exchange for it, that isn't a sale.

None of the three possible cases results in positive cash flow to the company from existing LX80 customers. Will these people under any of the circumstances quickly move on to more expensive Meade products? It isn't obvious to me since existing owners just haven't told stories which made it appear they were on an arc to much more expensive gear.

They're doing what they feel they need to get a rebuild of the company together after a near-death experience. Extending warranties when you have to stand up a new production line to come up with parts to service hardware with is usually a non-starter for anything worth less than an airplane.

-Rich

Quote:



Actually, I dont think they will sell many at all due to bad blood unless they address their LX80 failures and customers. There are only so many bridges a company can burn before they lose customers for life. I'm at that point now. There is a saying 80% of your business comes from 20% of your customers. That suggests repeat business from loyal customers as the bread and butter for a company. I've bought quite a bit from Meade over the years (thousands) and I'm sure I'm not alone. If they abandon the early adoptor LX80 owners who are orphaned with a mount that didn't work to specs during the warranty period and doesn't work after their 1 year warranty expires then that would be the 2nd Meade goto mount i've been burned on. I'm not complaining about a lack of features. I'm talking about the mount just not working (slipping gears, lurching gears, poor tracking, counter balance shaft extensions unscrewing by themselves, etc...) and not living up to it's weight capacity claims.

I'll add that they should extend the warranty to 3 years for all current LX80 as the mount was rushed out and sold prior to being ready for primetime, and they should offer the upgrade as a very low cost option.




Edited by Starhawk (01/11/14 10:21 PM)


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EuropaWill
sage
*****

Reged: 02/12/09

Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: Starhawk]
      #6307219 - 01/11/14 10:50 PM

A: If they're happy with the LX80, then new Meade doesn't have to spend a dime and lose any money on those customers based on my suggestion. Since only the unhappy people care about reparations.

B: If customers hated the mount because it is not working, extending the warranty so Meade fixes it is not an exepensive proposition for Meade but an act of good faith and confidence that the new Meade is different than the old Meade. Discontinuation of a $1000 mount 1 year out of the shoot is pretty close to admission the mount was a dud. Count me among the jaded that would welcome a tradeup offer for minimal cost.

C: If customers with an 80lb paperweight want a trade-up from the glorified beta testing experiment to the actual working mount made with proper gears, motors and innards, they should make it available for very low cost. How many unahppy LX80 owners do you think are out there tops? 150? What percentage of them do you think will actually follow through on a trade-up? Maybe 20% if your are lucky? You think making good on 30 mounts is too much to do in order to start a new company off on the right footing? You think they should risk selling close to no VM-1's because the resellers with any credibility wont push it knowing how the recent story with the LX80 played out?

There are times a company needs to fix a bad reputation and mistake they've made by throwing a relatively insignificant amount of money to fix what they've done wrong. This can pay off huge dividends for the future. They can sell the refurbed LX80's recouped from the trade-in program to offset any program costs. Its a win-win for them.

Quote:

I feel for you. But LX80 customers weren't going to be VX-1 customers no matter what:

(A) If they felt they had a great mount, they wouldn't want the same thing under a new name.

(B) If they hated the LX80 and are mad at Meade as a result, they can't be counted on to buy another Meade product, no matter what it is.

(C) If they have an LX80 they aren't happy with, but want a free VX-1 in exchange for it, that isn't a sale.

None of the three possible cases results in positive cash flow to the company from existing LX80 customers. Will these people under any of the circumstances quickly move on to more expensive Meade products? It isn't obvious to me since existing owners just haven't told stories which made it appear they were on an arc to much more expensive gear.

They're doing what they feel they need to get a rebuild of the company together after a near-death experience. Extending warranties when you have to stand up a new production line to come up with parts to service hardware with is usually a non-starter for anything worth less than an airplane.

-Rich

Quote:



Actually, I dont think they will sell many at all due to bad blood unless they address their LX80 failures and customers. There are only so many bridges a company can burn before they lose customers for life. I'm at that point now. There is a saying 80% of your business comes from 20% of your customers. That suggests repeat business from loyal customers as the bread and butter for a company. I've bought quite a bit from Meade over the years (thousands) and I'm sure I'm not alone. If they abandon the early adoptor LX80 owners who are orphaned with a mount that didn't work to specs during the warranty period and doesn't work after their 1 year warranty expires then that would be the 2nd Meade goto mount i've been burned on. I'm not complaining about a lack of features. I'm talking about the mount just not working (slipping gears, lurching gears, poor tracking, counter balance shaft extensions unscrewing by themselves, etc...) and not living up to it's weight capacity claims.

I'll add that they should extend the warranty to 3 years for all current LX80 as the mount was rushed out and sold prior to being ready for primetime, and they should offer the upgrade as a very low cost option.







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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
*****

Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: EuropaWill]
      #6307245 - 01/11/14 11:03 PM

Quote:

Discontinuation of a $1000 mount 1 year out of the shoot is pretty close to admission the mount was a dud.




We'll never know whether Meade would have stopped buying the LX80 if it had continued to be available to them. Sales appeared to be OK so I doubt it. Their relationship with the supplier ended so it is moot. There's no use guessing and then drawing conclusions from the guess.


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netwolf
super member
*****

Reged: 09/03/05

Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: LX80 upgrade LX85. new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #6307729 - 01/12/14 09:42 AM

Not sure if anyone her in Oz bought this mount, but down here we do have some protections now.

I was very keen in getting this mount when it first came out as a portable alt/az mount for my c8. But I wanted to wait and see results, fortunately I held of. I really to hope this mount is fixed, as I really like the concept of a dual purpose portable mount that is under a 1000 bucks. I hVe a g11 but I sometimes just want alt/az quick setup for visual and planetary imaging.


Quote from links provided.
"Warranties are separate from your automatic consumer guarantees. The consumer guarantees which apply regardless of any warranties suppliers sell or give to you, apply for a reasonable time depending on the nature of the goods or services. This means consumer guarantees may continue to apply after the time period for the warranty has expired."

Not sure if you have similar in US but if you do this could help you get service post the 1 year. In essence the idea is if you buy a TV you expect it will perform for a few years not just within the warranty period , this is we're the consumer guarantees come in to play. Similarly one would expect a telescope or mount to work and function we'll beyond its warranty period, so consumer still has right to expect service or repair.


http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/consumer-guarantees
http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/consumer-guarantees

Edited by netwolf (01/12/14 09:46 AM)


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