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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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Moromete
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/15/12

Loc: Romania
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Mike X.]
      #6119038 - 10/05/13 01:12 PM

If even NEQ6 has this electrical problem, I wonder how no one in so many years haven't discovered this problem which seems design related.

If this electricity leakage is design problem with both NEQ6 and AZ-EQ6 maybe Skywatcher mounts should be avoided like CGEM (8/3 error and cogging issue).

At the moment it seems to me there is no reliable chinese middle range mount (<2000 usd) on the market.

Even IEQ45 can't hold the same weight advertised as an EQ6/CGEM.


It's suck a pitty that AZ-EQ6 has electrical problems, GOTO problems in AZ mode, cable problems in AZ mode, no longitudinal adjustments for the 2nd scope in AZ mode, erratic movements in AZ mode, faulty ASPA in EQ mode and a fragile RA locking lever.

Maybe I should check my CG5GT too for electricity leakage.


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Mike X.
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 06/28/10

Loc: Greece-Athens and Rome-Italy
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Moromete]
      #6119069 - 10/05/13 01:48 PM

No no, non need to get in panic, the mount is performing admirably just like the NEQ6s of my friends.

This is obviously current with almost non amperage, otherwise i would be in company of angels by now and i guess it is the same thing with the nEQ6.

The mount after the 2.09 MCF patch is guiding perfectly.
I have been guiding at 1 meter focal lenght with RMS near 0.28 which is quite ok for my standarts.

At 500mm the RMS was near 0.12.

What i believe is that this is more of a problem to the user than the performance of the mount.


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Mike X.
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 06/28/10

Loc: Greece-Athens and Rome-Italy
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Mike X.]
      #6119077 - 10/05/13 01:52 PM

PS:For example this summer i must have lost 3 or 4 subs during 2 months and it was not by tracking/guiding errors!

PS2: I never had problems with the cluthes/levers
PS3: the ASPA of the mount works just as good as the Celestron ASPA.
PS4: The Goto accuracy of the mount, at least from my personal experience is equivalent if not better than the Nexstar one on my CG5 (which was pretty good!)

PS5: It is a new mount so bugs come out the first months of it's life.
The most important ones i see from my perspective are 2
1) the one with the current that it might not be necessarly a problem)
2) The random pikes it had duting autoguiding which was rapidly resolved with the patch.(The EQ8 had this issue too).


All in all, i wouldn't compare it with the problems the CGEM has in terms of AP.


Edited by Mike X. (10/05/13 01:59 PM)


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Mike X.
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 06/28/10

Loc: Greece-Athens and Rome-Italy
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Mike X.]
      #6119096 - 10/05/13 02:01 PM

i right these things for telling you that i believe that the NEQ6 and or the AZEQ6 are a great and safe option both for AP or visual.

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Moromete
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/15/12

Loc: Romania
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Mike X.]
      #6119193 - 10/05/13 03:28 PM

Mike,

I see how excited you are about AZ-EQ6 (to be honest I am too, except the problems I pointed out) and thank you for your valuable opinion based on your experience with the mount.

I have an idea: what if you take off the side panel with the electronic board and take a good close-up picture of the board and the wires with the panel being still connected by wires to the mount head? Maybe someone clever sees it and can help you with the electrical problem you have. Maybe an insulation could help, I don't know.

Judging by the symptoms you desbribed till now I think the problem is inside the mount itself and not in the power sources you use.

I hope you'll have this problem solved.


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Mike X.
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 06/28/10

Loc: Greece-Athens and Rome-Italy
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Moromete]
      #6119402 - 10/05/13 05:56 PM

It's a pleasure Moromete , that's why CN exists for
I would open it but I'm afraid to void the warranty, that's why I wentto to the store and talked with the dealer.
If we wouldn't find the same symptoms on other mounts too the mount at this moment would be traveling for a warranty check in Milan but at this point he will talk with them first, gather info and eventually act .
it would be pointless to send the mount and take it back still with electricity after 2-3 months if it has nothing.

Edited by Mike X. (10/05/13 05:57 PM)


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Cliff Hipsher
Pooh-Bah
***

Reged: 12/31/08

Loc: North Chesterfield, VA
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Moromete]
      #6119660 - 10/05/13 09:30 PM

The problem is not with the mount. The problem is with using an AC to DC adapter. Use a battery pack and the problem goes away...

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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Cliff Hipsher]
      #6119681 - 10/05/13 09:45 PM

Cliff,

Any AC to DC adapter? If the mount will only work with DC from a battery and not an AC to DC adapter I'd call that a problem with the mount.

Mike


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Cliff Hipsher
Pooh-Bah
***

Reged: 12/31/08

Loc: North Chesterfield, VA
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Mike X.]
      #6119703 - 10/05/13 09:57 PM

Quote:

No no, non need to get in panic, the mount is performing admirably just like the NEQ6s of my friends.

This is obviously current with almost non amperage, otherwise i would be in company of angels by now and i guess it is the same thing with the nEQ6.




Well, as we say here in the States, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

I've spent the better part of my life working on electrical and electronic equipment and I can state categorically that you are placing your life in jeopardy. The "tingle" you are feeling comes from a small amount of alternating current that is using your body like a capacitor. The resulting current is described by Ohm's Law I=E/R where Capacitive Reactance (1/(2(pi)fc) is substituted for resistance.

On the other hand, if you are standing on wet ground (Like when the grass is covered in dew), or if you should touch a water pipe or some other metallic ground, your body becomes a resistor. In this case, as little as 30 volts can be fatal.

Throw the AC to DC adapter in the trash. Use batteries.

I've done my best to warn you. Where should I send the flowers?


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Cliff Hipsher
Pooh-Bah
***

Reged: 12/31/08

Loc: North Chesterfield, VA
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Mkofski]
      #6119733 - 10/05/13 10:18 PM

Quote:

Cliff,

Any AC to DC adapter? If the mount will only work with DC from a battery and not an AC to DC adapter I'd call that a problem with the mount.

Mike




Mike:

The mount runs on 12 VDC. 99.9% of the "wall wart" style adapters do not have isolation step-down transformers and they use one side of the AC line (which SHOULD be neutral or a "floating ground") as a common return. This is the main reason we in the US have polarized plugs on our two wire AC stuff...

If your outlet is not wired correctly, or if the plug is not polarized, you can get the "hot" side of the AC connected to the mount. Touch the mount when your body is grounded, and POOF...

There are two ways to be safe: Use batteries, or use a power supply that has a 3 prong grounded plug with a true step down transformer and circuitry that is isolated from the chassi/case. And DO NOT use ANY AC to DC power supply out of doors when the ground is wet..


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Frank @ Van
member


Reged: 01/24/05

Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Cliff Hipsher]
      #6119809 - 10/05/13 11:22 PM

Mike, the problem is not from the mount, it is from the AC to DC adapter. The quality of the AC to DC adapter must be very poor and its insulation strength is low. Without connecting your AC to DC adapter to the mount, you can measure the AC voltage between the negative terminal of the DC output and the ground of the AC side, it must be in the range of tens of voltage. But for a good AC to DC adapter, it can be lower than 1 volt. You can not complain to the AZ-EQ6 mount when your power supply has such problem.

Frank


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johnpd
sage


Reged: 04/13/08

Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Mike X.]
      #6119909 - 10/06/13 12:51 AM

I have had my AZ-EQ6 since last December. I have not noticed any minor electrical shock problem with mine. I use a Pyramid power supply at home and a 12-volt battery in the field. The only time I would normally touch the mount is when I am doing a two-star star alignment in Alt-Az Mode which requires a manual move of the mount to the 1st star.

JohnD


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Mike X.
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 06/28/10

Loc: Greece-Athens and Rome-Italy
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: johnpd]
      #6120347 - 10/06/13 10:28 AM

Hello guys, thank you all for the comments and suggestions/warnings.I read and take them all very seriously!!

So i would like to tell you that i am not using anymore since august a wall mart adapter but a linear AC/DC variable laboratory power supply that minimizes the "problem" up to almost make it vanish.
This is the one i'm using at the moment:


Once said that, i did measured the voltage both in the Wall mart swithing adapters and this variable one.

It is what it is stated to be but i also measure alternating voltage between the negative and positive pole of these adapters!! (i'm not and expert but i don't know if this is normal, i guess not?)

Even if it is..what makes me wonder is the fact that this current passes through the mount's body up to the tripod.
Shouldn't be isolated?Specially if Skywatcher states on the manual to use linear ac/dc apapters and recomends to use them at 15 volts?

At the moment i am only using the mount or with the linear adapter that does'nt gives me any tingle or battery..life is too precious to play with..

Anyhow i do believe that using a Battery is safe way to use the mount but it is not a solution , at least from my point of view.If a mount is stated to be able to use it with a simple switching power supply...it should be that way..without tingles, small schocks or other possible issues...Am i wrong?

Again thank you all for the patience and help you are most kind all!!!!!

PS: Please do not take me wrong , i love this mount and it performs perfectly for astrophotography, i'm not blaming anyone,i'm just trying to understand if it's the mount or the power supply.
From what you told me and what i understand it is me and the power supply and thats more than fine for me

Edited by Mike X. (10/06/13 10:37 AM)


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johnpd
sage


Reged: 04/13/08

Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Mike X.]
      #6121579 - 10/07/13 12:26 AM

Hi Mike,

I believe Jack Huerkamp replied in another post that he was not aware of any leakage issues on his AZ-EQ6 as well. We both bought ours from the same vendor at about the same time (last December) if that helps any. Maybe there is a bad batch that came out.

JohnD


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Jack Huerkamp
Vendor - Waning Moon


Reged: 10/13/05

Loc: Louisiana
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: johnpd]
      #6121911 - 10/07/13 09:01 AM

John,

While at ECVAR I checked my mount to see if I got the tingle from it. I did not feel anything out of the normal. And the mount and legs were pretty wet from all the humidity.

Jack Huerkamp


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Mike X.
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 06/28/10

Loc: Greece-Athens and Rome-Italy
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Jack Huerkamp]
      #6121924 - 10/07/13 09:08 AM

Jack If you touch the tripod with a tester does it indicate presence of current? For feeling the "tingle" the volts must be more than 35-50 from what i understand...If i put the linear adapter on the mount that drops them to about 7 i won't feel anything.

Edited by Mike X. (10/07/13 09:09 AM)


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Pauls72
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 10/28/07

Loc: LaPorte, IN
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Mike X.]
      #6122060 - 10/07/13 10:26 AM

I just went and checked my Atlas/EQ-6 mount and the power ground appears to be tied to the chassis ground. Although this is pretty common in electrical design, it is a poor practice on consumer device. Especially one that is used in an area where possible wet surfaces are involved (moisture/dew). The mount should be designed so all the electronics are isolated from the case/chassis. Then the case/chassis is tied to the AC out ground prong ("double insulation"). This would prevent any possibility of a shock when used with a cheap or poor power supply.

Without a doubt your AC power adapter is at fault. But after checking mine, it obvious that Synta did not use good electrical design practices when designing or there is a problem manufacturing the mount. Being in my older Atlas the 0V and chassis are tied together, I believe that it is a design issue. There are 3 possible solutions:
1) Use a 12V battery to supply power.
2) Use a power supply that is transformer-coupled (more expensive types).
3) Open up the mount and find where chassis is tied to the 0V and isolate it. Then tie a ground wire from your mount to the AC outlet ground.(This will require an Ohm or mult-meter). By adding a ground wire, you are protect yourself should a voltage ever get shorted to the chassis/case.

Edited by Pauls72 (10/07/13 10:36 AM)


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dragonslayer1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: SLC, UT
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Pauls72]
      #6122219 - 10/07/13 11:33 AM

As Cliff said, you have a Hot, Neutral, and Ground... they mixed the Neutral and Ground together,
Kasey


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Mike X.
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 06/28/10

Loc: Greece-Athens and Rome-Italy
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6122318 - 10/07/13 12:18 PM

Thank you both guys, you are fantastic!
Yes I believe too this is the issue.So far the transformer based supply seems to do the trick
Unfortunately I am not an expert in electronics, I wish I knew how to find the point where the chassis is connected with the 0v...
I do have a multimeter, if it is an easy process I could give it a try

Edited by Mike X. (10/07/13 12:20 PM)


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Cliff Hipsher
Pooh-Bah
***

Reged: 12/31/08

Loc: North Chesterfield, VA
Re: AZEQ6GT tripod gives me electricity tingle new [Re: Jack Huerkamp]
      #6122766 - 10/07/13 03:30 PM

Batteries or AC to DC adapter?

One other thing to keep in mind is the OP is in Europe, so we have no idea what the local electrical codes are, or if they are even enforced...


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