Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | >> (show all)
orlyandico
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: tjugo]
      #6344866 - 01/30/14 10:41 AM

I'm also curious about the 0.3" RMS. If they had actually measured this particular mount with PEMPro, the wrong sidereal tracking speed would be immediately obvious.

That 0.3" RMS might be the output of the encoder which was measured "in the lab" not against a real star.

What this looks like is that the sidereal rate in the firmware was improperly programmed, so the mount is being driven at the wrong rate.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Alfred Tan
sage


Reged: 10/25/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: tjugo]
      #6344890 - 01/30/14 11:00 AM

Hi guys,

I signed up as a tester for the pre-production model. I also did the same on the iEQ45. So I am prepared to encounter problems associated with a production that is under development Answers to the following:

LPA's question: Can you comment on how long it takes the CEM60's GPS to connect? It took under 1 minute to lock on the GPS sats, very consistently, faster than my iEQ45.

Art43's question: Did you try to use the remote iOptron software to set up and operate the mount? No, I haven't done that.

I have put the CEM60 aside for the time to concentrate on getting a Radio Jove system working Will get back to CEM60 when iOptron send me the firmware patch.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
LPA
newbie


Reged: 01/28/14

Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: Alfred Tan]
      #6345025 - 01/30/14 12:11 PM

Alfred,

Thanks for the reply and good luck on Radio Jove. No more questions from me. Re: fan boys...hindsight is usually 20/20. What iOptron should have done was to have initial testers sign an NDA so that initial feedback would only go to iOptron, not to the WWW. I recognize Alfred is working with a pre-production model and software, so I'm not concerned about the tracking bug. I do lots of programming and I know how these things happen. This very likely is a one line fix. I can't afford to spend $10K+ on a mount for my 8" EdgeHD. I just want to do some less than hard core AP with my gear along with observing, and the CEM60 has a very attractive feature set among its price point competitors.

LPA


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: LPA]
      #6345169 - 01/30/14 01:27 PM

Since the CEM60 is not currently available for public consumption it isn't as if the public can get beta unit. There are a few of us who get to test the pre-production models and I think it will work to their advantage if any issues are brought to light, discussed openly, and addressed to the satisfaction of all.

We know Alfred has a glitch with his firmware and we know now that when they are available retail that this glitch will be fixed.

Testers in North America will be getting their units in the second week of February. iOptron is taking the testing very seriously and taking their time with the product release. I think they are doing it right. We don't need another LX800 or LX80 type thread.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tjugo
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 11/06/07

Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #6345501 - 01/30/14 04:11 PM

Quote:

Since the CEM60 is not currently available for public consumption it isn't as if the public can get beta unit. There are a few of us who get to test the pre-production models and I think it will work to their advantage if any issues are brought to light, discussed openly, and addressed to the satisfaction of all.

We know Alfred has a glitch with his firmware and we know now that when they are available retail that this glitch will be fixed.

Testers in North America will be getting their units in the second week of February. iOptron is taking the testing very seriously and taking their time with the product release. I think they are doing it right. We don't need another LX800 or LX80 type thread.




Agree. I didn't read the OT carefully enough to understand that the mount was a test unit , my bad. Since iOptron is stating that the mount would be available this month I thought it was a production unit.

Cheers,

Jose

Edited by tjugo (01/30/14 04:47 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Spacetravelerx
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/23/12

Loc: New Mexico
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions [Re: tjugo]
      #6345540 - 01/30/14 04:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Since the CEM60 is not currently available for public consumption it isn't as if the public can get beta unit. There are a few of us who get to test the pre-production models and I think it will work to their advantage if any issues are brought to light, discussed openly, and addressed to the satisfaction of all.

We know Alfred has a glitch with his firmware and we know now that when they are available retail that this glitch will be fixed.

Testers in North America will be getting their units in the second week of February. iOptron is taking the testing very seriously and taking their time with the product release. I think they are doing it right. We don't need another LX800 or LX80 type thread.




Agree. I didn't read the OT carefully enough to understand that the mount was a test unit , my bad. Since iOptron is stating that the mount would be available this mount I thought it was a production unit.

Cheers,

Jose




True, it is in beta test mode, but still iOptron should have had an NDA/do not talk agreement. Even though things are in beta, folks are seeing all the early warts and people can be confused in the wild west of the internet. And there are early negative points posted even though it is a beta mount. Google iOptron CEM60 an you start to see all the comments out there, good and bad. If I were iOptron I would be going "YIKES"!

Should the early release of the LX80 been an open beta type mount? That would have cured a lot of ills, lol.

Looks like a cool mount though. But as they say…stay tuned!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions [Re: Spacetravelerx]
      #6345588 - 01/30/14 04:56 PM

They need to take a page from Team Celestron and have beta tester only accessible forums where testers can test, troubleshoot, and retest. I haven't seen any legitimate negative info about this mount yet. Nothing that can't be remedied before it hits retail shelves. I am also glad there are testers not silenced by an NDA. Believe me, I have been under such an NDA had have no intention of ever doing that again.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #6345615 - 01/30/14 05:07 PM

What I would really love is if they would put a low res encoder on the DEC to help with pointing and alignment. Doesn't have to be the same expensive encoder that is on the RA. Just something to allow us to loosen the clutches and move it any which way without losing alignment. Also it would be able to reduce pointing errors. Just thinking out loud here.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions [Re: Alfred Tan]
      #6345814 - 01/30/14 07:00 PM

Quote:

Experienced drift in tracking drift in both sidereal and solar modes. The HC also has Lunar speed, King speed (don’t know what this is) and user defined speeds.




Alfred,

I thought King tracking speed was solar speed but found that it is named after late 19th, early 20th century Harvard astronomer Edward Skinner King to account for the effects of refection in astrophotography, his speciality.

here is a link

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Alfred Tan
sage


Reged: 10/25/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions [Re: LPA]
      #6346532 - 01/31/14 05:47 AM

Quote:

Alfred,

Re: fan boys...hindsight is usually 20/20. What iOptron should have done was to have initial testers sign an NDA so that initial feedback would only go to iOptron, not to the WWW.
LPA




Hi LPA,

This is the notice from iOptron when I signed up to test their first batch:

We appreciate your feedback/comments on the test unit; however you are not obligated to do so. You are not required [to get] a permission from iOptron to publish your reviews on the test unit anywhere and anytime.

iOptron is aware that reviews reporting bugs on test units may have negative publicity. On the other hand, reviews of the test units, if done objectively can also generate more interest in their new product.

So they must have been confident of their product and also the testers


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Alfred Tan
sage


Reged: 10/25/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions [Re: Mkofski]
      #6346535 - 01/31/14 05:55 AM

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the link. I have not used this before so it will be an interesting learning process for me

Alfred


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Alfred Tan
sage


Reged: 10/25/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions [Re: orlyandico]
      #6346539 - 01/31/14 06:03 AM

Quote:

I'm also curious about the 0.3" RMS. If they had actually measured this particular mount with PEMPro, the wrong sidereal tracking speed would be immediately obvious.

That 0.3" RMS might be the output of the encoder which was measured "in the lab" not against a real star.

What this looks like is that the sidereal rate in the firmware was improperly programmed, so the mount is being driven at the wrong rate.




Hi Orly,

Thanks for sharing your comments. You are absolutely right. I have attached the errors measured at the encoder's output.

Alfred


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Alfred Tan
sage


Reged: 10/25/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions [Re: Alfred Tan]
      #6346544 - 01/31/14 06:12 AM

Hi,

This is the PE curve for my mount. I tried attaching the jpeg file . Somehow it did not appear in my reply to Orly.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EFHJtf7nM1s/UusVC3PYa0I/AAAAAAAAJCg/ZdrRvqISs7o/s16...

It was measured at the output of the encoder.

Alfred


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mmalik
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/13/12

Loc: USA
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions [Re: Alfred Tan]
      #6346863 - 01/31/14 10:14 AM Attachment (29 downloads)

Quote:

This is the PE curve for my mount...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EFHJtf7nM1s/UusVC3PYa0I/AAAAAAAAJCg/ZdrRvqISs7o/s16...

It was measured at the output of the encoder.




Embedding your curve, hope you wouldn't mind?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mmalik
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/13/12

Loc: USA
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions [Re: Alfred Tan]
      #6346871 - 01/31/14 10:19 AM

Quote:

It was measured at the output of the encoder.




Can you elaborate what you mean by "at the output of encoder"? Is that a physical port? Would that make it RA output only? Regards


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orlyandico
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions [Re: mmalik]
      #6346983 - 01/31/14 11:09 AM

I assume that's the calibration master encoder they use at the factory.

If however it is the output of the internal encoder.. then I would be very wary of the actual figure.

That said, using my own encoder project I was able to achieve about +/- 2". The above graph shows roughly +/- 1". So definitely achievable.

However what I found in my own encoder project is that the low PE is not the entire story, because of variable sidereal rate across different areas of the sky. You would still end up needing to guide for >10 minute exposures.

As a mechanism to knock down PE to < 1" it is a useful tool, but it does not remove the need to guide.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rkayakr
sage
*****

Reged: 10/27/10

Loc: Northeast Ohio
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions [Re: orlyandico]
      #6347109 - 01/31/14 12:11 PM

Quote:


because of variable sidereal rate across different areas of the sky. You would still end up needing to guide for >10 minute exposures.





Does using the King tracking rate compensate for the apparent variable sidereal rate difference you mention?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orlyandico
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions [Re: rkayakr]
      #6347218 - 01/31/14 01:12 PM

No because the King rate varies with hour angle and declination following a very complex formula.

The King rate most mounts support is the average King rate which is based on a day being 86188 seconds (as opposed to the sidereal day of 86164 seconds and the solar day of 86400 seconds).

I would be very surprised if this mount calculates the instantaneous King rate. I know of no mounts not even high end ones which do so.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions [Re: orlyandico]
      #6347536 - 01/31/14 04:25 PM

Gday OrlyAndico

Quote:

I would be very surprised if this mount calculates the instantaneous King rate. I know of no mounts not even high end ones which do so.




Pretty sure the LX200s do when AltAz, but i would need to reconfirm my notes.

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
frolinmod
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/06/10

Loc: Southern California
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions [Re: Hilmi]
      #6347882 - 01/31/14 07:10 PM

Quote:

The instructions for engaging the worm are EXACTLY the same as those for the Paramount ME.



The worm cover even looks exactly like the ME worm cover. I suppose that's the end of the similarity though.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | >> (show all)


Extra information
10 registered and 33 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Dave M, richard7, bilgebay 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 42111

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics