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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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daran0815
journeyman


Reged: 02/25/14

Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: Photovisions]
      #6613057 - 07/02/14 01:18 PM

Hey folks, anyone see a problem in the stability of the iOptron tripod for the CEM60? I ask because a salesperson mentioned the thing might not be sturdy enough for imaging at 2000mm FL. I have about 10kg OT incl OAG. Haven't read of any such problems, but many don't use the mount at long FL. Any thoughts?

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Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: daran0815]
      #6613212 - 07/02/14 02:46 PM

If I end up with a CEM60 I am planning on buying it without tripod and using the one that Avalon makes for their stuff. I am testing the Linear Fast Reverse right now and I am in love with the Tripod. OMG it is amazing.

Hopefully this link works


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daran0815
journeyman


Reged: 02/25/14

Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #6613271 - 07/02/14 03:16 PM

Interesting, if a bit pricey. I don't think they have the needed adapter for a CEM60, though.

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Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: daran0815]
      #6613297 - 07/02/14 03:32 PM

No they don't. Not yet anyways. Would make sense for them to make one since it would also work with the iEQ45. That having been said, it isn't complicated to get an adapter plate made. My local machine shop could knock one out in short order.

It's pricy but very high quality. I have so far found nothing negative to say about this tripod.


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WebFoot
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/02/05

Loc: Redmond, WA, USA
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: daran0815]
      #6613423 - 07/02/14 04:44 PM

Quote:

Hey folks, anyone see a problem in the stability of the iOptron tripod for the CEM60? I ask because a salesperson mentioned the thing might not be sturdy enough for imaging at 2000mm FL. I have about 10kg OT incl OAG. Haven't read of any such problems, but many don't use the mount at long FL. Any thoughts?




I haven't imaged with my CEM60/stock tripod, but I doubt the tripod would be a problem. Wind on the OTA is likely to be a far greater problem, as is the simple fact that the mount, while excellent, isn't a Paramount ME, and won't be as solid. When you're buying at this price-point, you're compromising; you just have to decide what compromises you're willing to make.

I believe iOptron makes a heavier tripod; you could order it instead of the standard one. I wouldn't (and didn't), because if goes a long way toward defeating the "ease of transport and setup" that was a primary criterion for me in choosing the CEM60. And I don't think that the tripod is the weakest link in the system, for imaging.

YMMV


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daran0815
journeyman


Reged: 02/25/14

Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: WebFoot]
      #6613483 - 07/02/14 05:26 PM

Quote:

And I don't think that the tripod is the weakest link in the system, for imaging.




Just what I'm guessing. Wouldn't like buying something that I'd wana upgrade right after first light, though


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WebFoot
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/02/05

Loc: Redmond, WA, USA
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: daran0815]
      #6613494 - 07/02/14 05:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

And I don't think that the tripod is the weakest link in the system, for imaging.




Just what I'm guessing. Wouldn't like buying something that I'd wana upgrade right after first light, though




Well, you'll have to decide how much you want to spend, in order to be sure it will meet your wishes. The reason there's a good market for mounts that cost US$10,000 and up is simply that that's what it takes to make it really sing.

That said, one can do just fine with less. The longer the focal length of your scope (and the smaller the pixels of your camera), the more stress you put on your system, the more you'll find out the weaknesses of your system.

I bought my mount primarily for visual, with perhaps some video. But probably not long-exposure (especially long-focal length, long-exposure) astrophotography. That's what the Paramount ME is for, for me.

But I got good results with a Meade fork mount, with the aid of SBIG's adaptive optics, and I'm sure I could do fine with the CEM60, with work. But I wouldn't want to be imaging onto 9 micron pixels with 2000mm focal length, with this mount, without adaptive optics.

YMMV


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Photovisions
member


Reged: 06/20/14

Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: WebFoot]
      #6613519 - 07/02/14 05:49 PM

I have just got the Avalon T130 tripod for my CEM60. Avalon made me an adapter to connect to the CEM60 and it works well, so they have the specs and can make an adapter.

The tripod is more expensive than the stock one for the CEM60, but it is well made, lightweight, easy to use and has a payload capacity of 100Kg!

I am pleased with my purchase


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x6gas
member


Reged: 04/05/14

Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: Photovisions]
      #6613549 - 07/02/14 06:06 PM

Quote:

Ian - just one point about the CEM60 payload capacity. Ioptron quote the 60lb capacity for photography. This was confirmed by their staff in a youtube video from NEAF this Spring. They don't quote a visual capacity..




Oh OK, thanks and apologies for not having spotted that; clearly I've been given duff information.

Wonder if anyone has experience of running the mount for AP at that kind of focal length..?


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Astronewb
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 09/19/11

Loc: Connecticut
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: x6gas]
      #6614080 - 07/03/14 12:27 AM

Quote:

Wonder if anyone has experience of running the mount for AP at that kind of focal length..?




Here's an image off the 42" pier with the CEM60EC. Focal length was only 1370mm, I'm still waiting for a FT focuser for my AT10RC..:(

This is with the AT6RC, thirteen 10 minute subs, guided in PHD2. RA Agg 25, Mx RA 500 Mx Dec 75, 3 second guide exposures. Mount set to guiding permitted and guide rate set to .80 Basically, I believe up to this point I have been 'over-guiding' the mount, it doesn't need large corrections when guiding. Will continue to proof this out as skies permit.

NGC6946 the Fireworks @ 1370mm by Astronewb2011, on Flickr

I don't see why the 2" tripod wouldn't be the same?

Regards...Paul


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orlyandico
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: Astronewb]
      #6614102 - 07/03/14 12:56 AM

60lb rating for imaging eh.. so a Planewave CDK14 at 48lb should be handily within spec.

I'd like to believe this, but it doesn't seem likely.


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Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: orlyandico]
      #6614140 - 07/03/14 01:42 AM

Yah no way no how. 60 pounds for visual. I had it at about 35 pounds for imaging and wasn't too sure about it. Especially at almost 2000mm f/l

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x6gas
member


Reged: 04/05/14

Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: Astronewb]
      #6614241 - 07/03/14 04:11 AM

Sorry Paul - I mis-typed (too late at night when I wrote that) - I meant payload not focal length. I'm using my CEM60-EC at 1960mm focal length (EdgeHD 11 +0.7x reducer) but that's nowhere near the 60lb payload rating. As said above, I've admired iOptron but I struggle to believe a 60lb rating for AP.

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nickwv
Vendor-Altair Astro Europe


Reged: 07/10/05

Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: x6gas]
      #6614253 - 07/03/14 04:22 AM

I wonder, is the shape of the OTA and it's COG, (and corresponding moment-arm and torque when balanced) more meaningful than a capacity rating? Move a 10 pound weight a few cm and everything changes. Perhaps a long achromat has similar effects to a larger aperture compact OTA like an RC or thereabouts.

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Tim Giles
member


Reged: 09/25/10

Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: nickwv]
      #6614368 - 07/03/14 08:24 AM

In terms of a tripod, I am waiting for one of Nicks (Altair Astro) new Starbase tripods. Not sure about Starbase, my almost 4yo son thinks Starship would have been a better name!

New Starbase Tripod

Before that, I was thinking about a T130 from Avalon. I did not think they had an iOptron adapter plate, so hence the Starbase. Not that I mind :-)

Edited by Tim Giles (07/03/14 08:27 AM)


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daran0815
journeyman


Reged: 02/25/14

Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: Tim Giles]
      #6614870 - 07/03/14 01:37 PM

Apparently an Cem60 adapter for the Berlebach Planet is available, even though it isn't to be found on any website I could find. Lighter & cheaper by about 30% compared to the starbase. Not as spacey though

Edited by daran0815 (07/03/14 03:35 PM)


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nickwv
Vendor-Altair Astro Europe


Reged: 07/10/05

Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: daran0815]
      #6615169 - 07/03/14 05:07 PM

For those interested, here's the Altair StarBase CNC heavy duty field tripod for iOptron CEM60 build thread on EMS.

We hope to make this compatible with the rumoured larger CEM, too.


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Photovisions
member


Reged: 06/20/14

Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: nickwv]
      #6615911 - 07/04/14 05:10 AM Attachment (47 downloads)

Second night out with the CEM60 and Tak FSQ, taking it through its paces.

Using a non-saturated star this time and running for 5 cycles, the PE measured 13 arc secs, which tbh, is not as good as Ihad hoped. the encoder measured PE was 10 arc secs pp. I also trained the PEC and managed to reduce the PE to 5 arc secs pp. This is not good enough for unguiding imaging save for a 50mm camera lens!

However, total PE doesn't tell the whole story. I then assessed the guiding capability. What I did find (in common with previous experiences) is that having PPEC turned on, made guiding worse. So I am confining PPEC to the bin. When PPEC was turned off, the guiding was really quite excellent and more than 95% of the time, was accurate to within 0.2 arc seconds. So the smoothness of the PE and magnetic coupling clearly works very well.

I've attached the track log file for anyone interested and the pixel scale is 2.1 arc secs

Regarding the weight capacity of the CEM60, its all VERY subjective. I could mount a 16 inch RC on top of a Sky watcher EQ5 mount and get it to slew and I could mount a camera lens on an AP1600 and moan about tracking problems in a gale force wind! Basically, there will be a gradual decline in guiding with increasing telescope weight and a final image will also depend on the focal length you are using. So tbh, its what the user is satisfied with and manufacturers will always have difficulty assigning a weight capacity for a given mount. My largest scope is a 19Kg Orion Optics 12 inch ODK and when I get counterweights, will test this on the CEM60...


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GJJim
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/09/06

Loc: Western CO
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: Photovisions]
      #6616034 - 07/04/14 09:08 AM

Quote:


Regarding the weight capacity of the CEM60, its all VERY subjective. I could mount a 16 inch RC on top of a Sky watcher EQ5 mount and get it to slew and I could mount a camera lens on an AP1600 and moan about tracking problems in a gale force wind! Basically, there will be a gradual decline in guiding with increasing telescope weight and a final image will also depend on the focal length you are using. So tbh, its what the user is satisfied with and manufacturers will always have difficulty assigning a weight capacity for a given mount. My largest scope is a 19Kg Orion Optics 12 inch ODK and when I get counterweights, will test this on the CEM60...




Thanks for that summary of your tests. Regarding weight capacity, I think an overlooked parameter is the diameter of the worm wheel (or the mechanical equivalent) on imaging mounts. When the payload weight/moment increases the mount has to apply more torque for any given correction. Large diameter gears lessen the demand on the axis motor which ultimately has to do the work. The bearings and axles supporting the axes also must be sturdy enough to keep the applied torque confined and not cause a bending movement that makes PE worse.

Look at the mounts that are known to handle large payloads, sometimes far above their "rated" limit, and they all have oversized worm wheels.


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nomosnow
sage


Reged: 03/21/11

Loc: Fort Saskatchewan,Ab ,Canada
Re: iOptron CEM60, First Impressions new [Re: Photovisions]
      #6616140 - 07/04/14 10:15 AM

"I've attached the track log file for anyone interested and the pixel scale is 2.1 arc secs " Thanks for including the log . What was the declination of the guide star?
Thanks John


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