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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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mmalik
Post Laureate
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Reged: 01/13/12

Loc: USA
Re: Are we in a mount revolution? new [Re: psandelle]
      #6387435 - 02/20/14 07:34 PM

Paul, would you mind editing your post? Regards

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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: Are we in a mount revolution? new [Re: mmalik]
      #6387441 - 02/20/14 07:39 PM

Quote:

CEM-60 is a good alternative for the commoner who wants some sanity of precision. Initial reviews of CEM-60 are somewhat “rattley” to say the least. This kind of quality control is going to bite iOptron; they ship two units and QA problems are apparent. What’s up with Chinese... they can’t open up the first few beta units they ship and just slew them? They already have had two counts against them, 1) drifts in RA and 2) rattling while slewing. Few more and they’ll be counting themselves in the Meade realm. As harsh as it may sound there is limited margin of error in precision era, beta release or not. Regards




What initial reviews? I believe there has only been one member posting about very early experiences and he was very carefull to stress that he was beta testing. A second poster has only unboxed the mount and he is also a beta tester. I was happy to see iOptron go without a NDA but maybe they should have one like other manufacturers.

Edited by Mkofski (02/20/14 07:42 PM)


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: Are we in a mount revolution? new [Re: mmalik]
      #6387442 - 02/20/14 07:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I bought the mount head only configuration (no tripod but includes the mount controller) in the UK last year for £4,500 (excluding tax). The price was put up significantly a month later.




Ed, I wonder what drove GM1000HPS prices high after initial release? I don’t know how to decipher the price, Tony is quoting, in US terms? Wonder if you have any clout to get prices adjusted lower for the US, possibly of the entire fleet, but “surely” the GM1000HPS? Regards






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WesC
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/06/13

Loc: La Crescenta, CA
Re: Are we in a mount revolution? new [Re: mmalik]
      #6387445 - 02/20/14 07:41 PM

Quote:


What I call “back-loading” their fleet with encoders and NO encoder representation in $5K to $10K range is something hurting Astro-physics already in my opinion. Folks are more than likely to opt for GM1000HPS than Mach1 in that range. It is simple as that.


Besides, encoders what’s missing from Astro-physics’ business strategy is regard for the commoner. They presumed their so-called quality in legacy (non-encoded) mounts will drive their business and it HAS for the most part in the past; but times are changing. As you said, RENISHAW are obviously cost prohibitive for $5K to $10K bracket unless they cut some kind of deal with RENISHAW or develop something in-house like 10Micron did. Whatever they do, they need to act fast. They don’t have the luxury to sit on this while revolution passes them by.


On the user side there is resistance to change, mainly because, understandably, some users, like you, have invested hefty sums in legacy (non-encoded) mount technologies. This has created an awkward situation for both Astro-physics and the users; they need to fix this or this problem is theirs to own and/or lose. Some questions to contemplate:


Question: How do they upgrade their legacy fleet to precision mounts and still be competitive?


Question: How do legacy mount owners dispose of their legacy mounts and get precision ones (this scenario applies to the mounts that are simply NOT upgradeable in situ)?


Question: How do legacy mount owners upgrade their legacy mounts to precision ones without incurring hefty sums in upgrade "schemes" based on yester years’ pricing models (this scenario applies to the mounts that ARE upgradeable)?





Wow, this thread certain is full of rampant fantasy. You are making a huge amount of ridiculous assertions based on completely incorrect assumptions. I don't believe for a second that anything you are saying here is anywhere near reality. So, "back-loading?" Where do you get this stuff? Have you SEEN the waiting lists for AP gear? AP isn't hurting one bit, so claiming something that YOU would do differently is "hurting" Astro-Physics is just beyond absurd. They offer an option for those who feel they need it. Its an expensive option so I think its great that AP offers their mounts with encoders as an OPTION as encoders are simply NOT ALWAYS NECESSARY whereas having a mechanically high-quality mount IS.


Another completely false assumption is this resistance to change due to heavy investment. Once again if you just open your eyes you can easily see that AP products demand a VERY healthy resale value and anyone interested in trying another mount, be it a newer AP model, 10Micron, Paramount or whatever, can easily sell it and recoup a large amount of their initial investment.

Lastly, "...regard for the commoner???" None of what you are saying makes any sense. Astro-Physics is a PREMIUM, boutique shop. Their business model is to make PREMIUM mounts, scopes and accessories. They do not compete with the likes of iOptron, Synta Meade or any of the other mass-market Chinese companies. Their sales are good, their customers as a group are VERY happy. There's no reason whatsoever that they would or should do as you suggest. And FWIW, 10Micron isn't exactly shooting for the mid to low end either. AP offers mounts with encoders at a comparable price to what 10Micron is, so there is nothing compelling that they need to "act fast" to accomplish in order to compete.

as for those silly questions.

1. No, they don't need to.
2. They sell them and upgrade just like any owner of any product.
3. "schemes" again with the ridiculous hyperbole. Not dignified with an answer.


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plav1959
sage
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: Central Florida
Re: Are we in a mount revolution? new [Re: WesC]
      #6387595 - 02/20/14 08:56 PM

It's clear to me now that AP has lost touch with the "commoners" and clearly will not survive in the current high tech, low cost market.

Fortunately Edmund Scientific has announced an encoder option will be available for the Astroscan starting in May of this year. I've already listed my now disposable AP1100 on Craigslist and put my name on the Astroscan wait list. Currently the wait list is six months long....


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sewhite
member


Reged: 05/29/12

Loc: Georgia
Re: Are we in a mount revolution? new [Re: plav1959]
      #6387653 - 02/20/14 09:22 PM

Gentleman:

I believe the proper solution here is for someone to start his own astronomy mount company. He can then
design and build a line of mounts that fit the following criteria. These mounts shall provide superior accuracy, LOW
COST, precision encoders, hardware and software to cover all possible consumer preferences. This company's
mounts will also be upgradeable in the future to any hardware and software design improvements and will be
made available at a deep discount to all legacy customers so they don't incur hefty sums in upgrade schemes.

This will be a Win Win for all involved as these mounts will sell like hotcakes making someone wealthy, providing
the astronomy community with better mounts than ever before at lower cost to everyone. New people will want to
become involved in the hot field of astronomy and someone will sell even more mounts at even lower cost due to the
economy of scale with bonuses for all the employees. By this time someone will be lauded the man who revolutionized
mounts and this thread can be concluded.

Actually some sections of this thread were useful in learning about various high end mount mounts features and I do
appreciate the work all of the astronomy mount manufacturers do to provide mounts at various price points, thanks guys.
This has been an "interesting" thread, thanks folks.

Stan


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austin.grant
professor emeritus
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Reged: 10/18/10

Loc: Shreveport, LA
Re: Are we in a mount revolution? new [Re: plav1959]
      #6387656 - 02/20/14 09:27 PM

Quote:

It's clear to me now that AP has lost touch with the "commoners" and clearly will not survive in the current high tech, low cost market.

Fortunately Edmund Scientific has announced an encoder option will be available for the Astroscan starting in May of this year. I've already listed my now disposable AP1100 on Craigslist and put my name on the Astroscan wait list. Currently the wait list is six months long....




You fool! Tasco is releasing triply-encoded binoculars that detect what deep-sky object you point them at and email you a picture of what you should have seen. All at a fraction of the price of the Astroscan.

That newly-encoded Edmund Scientific will simply be a dead piece of hardware that you're burdened with. What a chump.


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plav1959
sage
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: Central Florida
Re: Are we in a mount revolution? new [Re: austin.grant]
      #6387664 - 02/20/14 09:31 PM

Well, I had been sworn to secrecy, but I'm currently beta testing a dual axis encoded Telrad. Just don't tell anybody...

Edited by plav1959 (02/20/14 09:33 PM)


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WesC
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/06/13

Loc: La Crescenta, CA
Re: Are we in a mount revolution? new [Re: plav1959]
      #6387684 - 02/20/14 09:40 PM



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psandelle
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Are we in a mount revolution? new [Re: mmalik]
      #6387691 - 02/20/14 09:42 PM

Quote:

Paul, would you mind editing your post? Regards




Edit it? Did I misspell something, or was there a grammar problem? I don't usually edit for other people unless I'm getting paid, but if I made a mistake somewhere, I'm always okay with correcting it.

The rest of you are cracking me up!!!!

Paul


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Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: Are we in a mount revolution? new [Re: psandelle]
      #6387719 - 02/20/14 09:57 PM

Us commoners sing-

But everybody's like Cristal, Maybach, diamonds on your timepiece.
Jet planes, islands, tigers on a gold leash.
We don't care, we aren't caught up in your love affair.


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Dave MModerator
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/03/04

Loc: Ohio
Re: Are we in a mount revolution? new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #6387775 - 02/20/14 10:21 PM

This thread has run its course, everything has been extensively covered, The thread is now locked.

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