Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home page


Telescope Specific Forums >> Celestron NexStar

Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess)
      #5544189 - 11/28/12 04:38 PM Attachment (52 downloads)


Looking for advice:

Saddly, I dropped my 2.5 yrs old Nexstart 4SE , and even though nothing was broken (apparently), the images now are distorted (see attached pic). Collimation problems, I guess.

I'd read that, since the 4SE is a Mak telescope, it is not an easy task (if possible at all) to align the mirrors.

What would you advise me to do? should I try to fixe it myself? I only own this 4SE scope and never ever collimated anything before. Still doable?

I guess the cost of a professional fix would be more than the cost of getting a new 4SE? (I don't know how much it would cost, but I read in a fix company they would charges $80/hr.

Should I just get over it and sell the mount, recover something and buy a new one? Maybe that's the right thing to do, but I liked the 4SE and don't want to give up as easily.

Please, advice what do you think.

Thanks!
Art


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hamdul
sage
*****

Reged: 06/23/09

Loc: Litchfield NH, USA
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Artemio]
      #5544249 - 11/28/12 05:22 PM

Art,
It appears that you took the picture of the star in focus.
Look at the star out of focus and see which way the rings are distorted. I believe that Celestron has a video on UTube that shows how to collimate a Mak. It is not difficult. I'll look for the video and forward it to you when I find it.
Fred


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tel
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 03/31/06

Loc: Wallingford England
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: hamdul]
      #5544375 - 11/28/12 06:42 PM

Hi Art,

Hoping Fred can find that Youtube video; but in the meantime, perhaps this link, (I think credited to our good CN friend and colleague, Hernando), might help ?

http://hyperionzoomlover.blogspot.com/2011/04/taking-apart-collimating-nexsta...

I assume you are familiar with collimation by star testing ?

Best regards,
Tel


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tel
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 03/31/06

Loc: Wallingford England
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Tel]
      #5544389 - 11/28/12 06:51 PM

By the way, my apologies, Art:

Having just noticed that the above was your first post, I forgot to welcome you warmly to CN and to this forum in particular !

Best regards,
Tel


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hopskipson
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/24/10

Loc: Queens, New Yawk, Light pollut...
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Tel]
      #5544445 - 11/28/12 07:50 PM

That's a wild picture of Jupiter and the 4 moons. Sorry I'm of no help with your problem. Welcome to the forum .

James


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: hamdul]
      #5544619 - 11/28/12 09:49 PM

Quote:

Art,
It appears that you took the picture of the star in focus.
Look at the star out of focus and see which way the rings are distorted.





Fred, I just did it using a 9mm EP. It looks like a "stand up" oval, with a "fat tummy" in the right side. I didn't find a better way to describe it :-)

Quote:

I believe that Celestron has a video on UTube that shows how to collimate a Mak. It is not difficult. I'll look for the video and forward it to you when I find it.
Fred




Thanks! this is very reassuring!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Tel]
      #5544626 - 11/28/12 09:53 PM

Quote:

Hi Art,

Hoping Fred can find that Youtube video; but in the meantime, perhaps this link, (I think credited to our good CN friend and colleague, Hernando), might help ?

http://hyperionzoomlover.blogspot.com/2011/04/taking-apart-collimating-nexsta...

I assume you are familiar with collimation by star testing ?

Best regards,
Tel




Thanks! nice surgery ;-)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Tel]
      #5544632 - 11/28/12 09:55 PM

Quote:

By the way, my apologies, Art:

Having just noticed that the above was your first post, I forgot to welcome you warmly to CN and to this forum in particular !

Best regards,
Tel




Thanks all you guys, quick and sharp answers are all what I needed to start feeling like there is a still a hope for my 4SE :-)

I am sure I will enjoy this forum!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: hopskipson]
      #5544641 - 11/28/12 09:57 PM

Quote:

That's a wild picture of Jupiter and the 4 moons. Sorry I'm of no help with your problem. Welcome to the forum .

James




hahaha ... yes, I know! it looks like a weird picture, with seagulls flying in a midnight sun , at the beach!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Tel]
      #5544648 - 11/28/12 09:59 PM

Quote:

Hi Art,
[...] I assume you are familiar with collimation by star testing ?

Best regards,
Tel




Nope, but I am always ready to learn


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ibase
Vendor Affiliate
*****

Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Tel]
      #5544672 - 11/28/12 10:11 PM

Quote:

Hi Art,

Hoping Fred can find that Youtube video; but in the meantime, perhaps this link, (I think credited to our good CN friend and colleague, Hernando), might help ?

http://hyperionzoomlover.blogspot.com/2011/04/taking-apart-collimating-nexsta...

I assume you are familiar with collimation by star testing ?

Best regards,
Tel




Tel, thanks for the mention!

Art, the 4SE is a very nice scope worth the trouble of fixing, I motored 250km up the mountains just to have it fixed/collimated by an astro buddy, good luck!

Best,


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hamdul
sage
*****

Reged: 06/23/09

Loc: Litchfield NH, USA
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: ibase]
      #5544772 - 11/28/12 11:01 PM

Art.
Sorry for the delay. Ilooked and found the video I was talking about, but it was not a Celestron one. Here is the address that should get you the data, http://www.youtube.com/user/AstronomyAndNatureTV

By the way I too want to welcome you to our group.and good luck with your collimation.
Fred
\P.S.
By the way for you Brits This is a British company that did the video


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hamdul
sage
*****

Reged: 06/23/09

Loc: Litchfield NH, USA
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: hamdul]
      #5544783 - 11/28/12 11:08 PM

Art,
Whoops!!!!!! I just clicked on the address that I gave you and found that it does not go directly to the video. You will have to scroll down to get it and as I recall when you scroll down you will run out of items but there is a tab that says something like "Get More" click on that and continue to scroll down till you find the video "How to collimate a schmidt- Cass. It's Way down on the list.
Fred


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: ibase]
      #5544784 - 11/28/12 11:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Hi Art,

Hoping Fred can find that Youtube video; but in the meantime, perhaps this link, (I think credited to our good CN friend and colleague, Hernando), might help ?

http://hyperionzoomlover.blogspot.com/2011/04/taking-apart-collimating-nexsta...

I assume you are familiar with collimation by star testing ?

Best regards,
Tel




Tel, thanks for the mention!

Art, the 4SE is a very nice scope worth the trouble of fixing, I motored 250km up the mountains just to have it fixed/collimated by an astro buddy, good luck!

Best,




Yes, I saw your post and the pictues of the major surgery!

So, as you are one of the few with first hand experience, would you say that it is doable? (I will have to drive more than 250Km, as I'm in Texas) :-)

Regards
Artemio


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: hamdul]
      #5544792 - 11/28/12 11:12 PM

Quote:

Art,
Whoops!!!!!! I just clicked on the address that I gave you and found that it does not go directly to the video. You will have to scroll down to get it and as I recall when you scroll down you will run out of items but there is a tab that says something like "Get More" click on that and continue to scroll down till you find the video "How to collimate a schmidt- Cass. It's Way down on the list.
Fred




I found it ... but, it is for a Schmidt-Cassengrain (SCT). Sadly, the 4SE is a maksutov-cassegrain (MCT). I just learning that one of the slight differences between a SCT and a MCT, is that the last is not easy to collimate ... so sad!

Thanks for your time and I really feel welcome!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: ibase]
      #5544822 - 11/28/12 11:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Hi Art,

Hoping Fred can find that Youtube video; but in the meantime, perhaps this link, (I think credited to our good CN friend and colleague, Hernando), might help ?

http://hyperionzoomlover.blogspot.com/2011/04/taking-apart-collimating-nexsta...

I assume you are familiar with collimation by star testing ?

Best regards,
Tel




Tel, thanks for the mention!

Art, the 4SE is a very nice scope worth the trouble of fixing, I motored 250km up the mountains just to have it fixed/collimated by an astro buddy, good luck!

Best,




Hernando, looking with more detail up to the pictures you posted, it seems to me that it is possible to collimate the tube by "just" opening the back to get to the "three factory collimation screws", without disassembly the whole thing, am I right? If so, then maybe this task is not as daunting as it looked at the beginning!



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ibase
Vendor Affiliate
*****

Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Artemio]
      #5544887 - 11/29/12 12:43 AM

Art, you don't have to travel half-way around the globe to get where I and my astro buddy's at because collimating the 4SE is really doable. And yes, as I've mentioned in this old Nexstar thread (click here), you may not have to go far in disassembling the scope to get to the factory collimation screws at the back (see diagram near the end of the old thread). As it will be the first time you'll be collimating a scope, it may take some trial & error to get there but it will surely be all worth it. And you've got nothing to lose really, I've almost given up on my 4SE before it got fixed. Good luck once again!

Best,


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: ibase]
      #5545612 - 11/29/12 02:07 PM

Quote:

Art, you don't have to travel half-way around the globe to get where I and my astro buddy's at because collimating the 4SE is really doable. And yes, as I've mentioned in this old Nexstar thread (click here), you may not have to go far in disassembling the scope to get to the factory collimation screws at the back (see diagram near the end of the old thread). As it will be the first time you'll be collimating a scope, it may take some trial & error to get there but it will surely be all worth it. And you've got nothing to lose really, I've almost given up on my 4SE before it got fixed. Good luck once again!

Best,




Thanks Hernando. Surely I will do what you mention as soon as I can, hopefully this weekend.

I will try to document the process, in case anyone else has the same problem in the future.

Thanks all you guys, I will post back once I have news ;-)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ibase
Vendor Affiliate
*****

Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Artemio]
      #5545668 - 11/29/12 02:55 PM

Art, you're welcome, looking forward to your post/documentation, thanks!

Best,


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orion61

*****

Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Artemio]
      #5548726 - 12/01/12 12:37 PM

Welcome here, PM sent to you.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: orion61]
      #5552224 - 12/03/12 03:07 PM

Done!
I will post the report on how I did the whole repair later, but I want to inform that the collimation is not an issue anymore!
At the end, I was lucky everything ran smoothly and didn't broke anything


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: orion61]
      #5552237 - 12/03/12 03:10 PM Attachment (37 downloads)

Here is how Jupiter looks now (before any image processing). Note how the moons lost their wings

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Artemio]
      #5552244 - 12/03/12 03:12 PM Attachment (34 downloads)

And, this is how it looks once I played (no stacking, just a single image) with contrast, exposure, bright and tone

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ibase
Vendor Affiliate
*****

Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Artemio]
      #5552512 - 12/03/12 06:01 PM

Great! Congrats!

Best,


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: ibase]
      #5553004 - 12/03/12 10:33 PM Attachment (37 downloads)

Well, here is the entire procedure.

First, this is how the Mirrors looked at the begining


Edited by Artemio (12/03/12 10:34 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Artemio]
      #5553026 - 12/03/12 10:46 PM Attachment (34 downloads)

After opening the back cover of the scope, I got this pair of screws.

The interesting part is that, trying only with the allen screw I wasn't able to get the right position of the mirrors. It wasn't until I started playing with the philips type that I got the mirrors aligned. I do not know if they were designed for that reason, but they served me for the purpose


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Artemio]
      #5553038 - 12/03/12 10:51 PM Attachment (32 downloads)

I didn't put the cover and everything together to verify the alignment, but instead used an eye piece to look through the OTA while still disarmed. This way I save a lot of time and hassles.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Artemio]
      #5553045 - 12/03/12 10:54 PM Attachment (30 downloads)

This is what I got once calibrated, using a white LED as an artificial start

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Artemio]
      #5553055 - 12/03/12 11:00 PM

Well, after all this process now I had learned to love even more my mighty 4SE.

Thanks all you guys for your help, you're a great and supportive band!


Thanks Hernando for the photos of the process of opening the 4SE, they show me what to expect and made me confident that it could be done.

I will be around, posting what I get with my reborned scope


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ibase
Vendor Affiliate
*****

Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Artemio]
      #5553135 - 12/03/12 11:53 PM

Art, nice documentation/pics, glad to be of help somehow.This thread will go a long way in helping other 4SE owners who might have similar problems in the future. Thanks!

Best,


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tel
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 03/31/06

Loc: Wallingford England
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: ibase]
      #5553279 - 12/04/12 03:07 AM

Just a thought, Art, but if the Philips headed screws are the mirror adjusters, is it at all possible, (like with some Newtonians), that the Allen screws, (difficult to see precisely but next to the Philips screws ?), serve to lock the mirror in position once adjusted ?

In other words, the Allen screws are slackened, the adjustment made with the Philips screws and then the Allen screws are re-tightened ?

In all events, it's good to know your 'scope is once more up and running !

Best regards,
Tel

Edited by Tel (12/04/12 03:09 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Peter9
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/30/08

Loc: Yorkshire - Born & Bred
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Tel]
      #5553560 - 12/04/12 08:46 AM

Great result a Art and thanks for posting the procedure.

(Hi. Hernando, good to see you around again.)

Regards. Peter.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Tel]
      #5553680 - 12/04/12 10:13 AM

Quote:

Just a thought, Art, but if the Philips headed screws are the mirror adjusters, is it at all possible, (like with some Newtonians), that the Allen screws, (difficult to see precisely but next to the Philips screws ?), serve to lock the mirror in position once adjusted ?

In other words, the Allen screws are slackened, the adjustment made with the Philips screws and then the Allen screws are re-tightened ?

In all events, it's good to know your 'scope is once more up and running !

Best regards,
Tel




Hummm ... Interesting!

As I said, I have no previous experience in collimating a scope (or anything else ;-) ... I read the manuals already posted on how to collimate the other Maks, I saw the pair of "big" and "small" screws, but didn't understand the functions of each one. Now that you say it in plain english, that makes totally sense. I believe the Allen serve for that purpose.

I will give myself a little more time and will open the scope deeply so will know for sure the function of each one (and will clean up the mirror, that collected a lot of dust in the process!). I hope it will add more light in how to manage this scope.

Cheers!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ibase
Vendor Affiliate
*****

Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Peter9]
      #5553810 - 12/04/12 11:38 AM

Quote:

(Hi. Hernando, good to see you around again.)





Hi Peter, thanks! Glad to be here as always.
Clear skies!

Best,


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Geo.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: orion61]
      #5554067 - 12/04/12 02:11 PM

Before I'd try to collimate the Mak I'd spin the tube off the rear cell, remove the primary and check the screws that hold the baffle tube in place. Also check the baffle tube to see if it is perpendicular to the plate. I've seen the tube *BLEEP* in the plate after a fall. Can be fixed by removing the tube and rethreading it into the plate straight. At least you'll have it true engough to have sufficient adjustment to collimate it.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Geo.]
      #5554206 - 12/04/12 03:59 PM

Quote:

Before I'd try to collimate the Mak I'd spin the tube off the rear cell, remove the primary and check the screws that hold the baffle tube in place. Also check the baffle tube to see if it is perpendicular to the plate. I've seen the tube *BLEEP* in the plate after a fall. Can be fixed by removing the tube and rethreading it into the plate straight. At least you'll have it true engough to have sufficient adjustment to collimate it.




I am getting more and more valuable advices!

Definitely I will open the scope again (now I know I can put it back together, hehe) and check all this, as well as the function of the screws.

When I was looking for more info on how to fix the 4SE, the only reference I got was Hernando's photos. There is not much more info regarding the Nextstart 4SE over internet (at least, I couldn't find it easily). Maybe puting everything together, with clear ilustration and step by step photos, in a PDF format could help.

Or maybe there is nobody trying to fix a 4SE, after all


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ibase
Vendor Affiliate
*****

Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Artemio]
      #5562149 - 12/09/12 10:26 AM

Just for further reference, here are 75 photos of the operation/disassembly undertaken on the 4SE:

Nexstar 4SE Disassembly

Best,


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Artemio
member


Reged: 11/28/12

Loc: Texas, US
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: ibase]
      #5568372 - 12/12/12 10:13 PM

Great detail! there are some pictures I hadn't seen before.

It seems that the screw philips are locking the mirror, right? just like was suggested in a previous post.

Great!
Regards
Artemio


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ibase
Vendor Affiliate
*****

Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Dropped 4SE needs collimation (I guess) new [Re: Artemio]
      #5569128 - 12/13/12 11:58 AM

Thanks; most probably but not absolutely sure as it was my astro buddy doing all the adjustments and I was just taking pics to document the entire procedure.

Best,


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)


Extra information
5 registered and 10 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Brian Risley, panhard, Mitchell Duke, mayidunk 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 1758

Jump to

CN Forums Home




Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics