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Jammer53
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Reged: 12/18/12

Loc: Central NY
Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: CelestronDaddy]
      #5772341 - 04/02/13 08:44 AM

But does a wider field of view do anything for planetary viewing? I don't have any (just the 32mm that came with my 6SE) but to my thinking a wider field EP would be good for Pleides, or DSO viewing, right? I mean do I need 68 degree FOV for looking at Jupiter? Or Saturn?

Jim


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Peter9
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Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: Jammer53]
      #5772457 - 04/02/13 09:48 AM

Hi Jim,

I certainly don't need a wide F.O.V for Planets, the Moon and trying to tease detail out of anything. In fact, I think a narrower F.O.V is more desirable when observing same.
Personally, I don't understand this obsession with wide Field of views all the time.
Yes, I have wide field eyepieces for observing open clusters, rich star field, Asterisms etc, but why eyepieces are rejected on the grounds of having a narrow F.O.V I don't fully understand. Surely you need a mixture of both?? I certainly find that I do. I use a zoom as my main eyepiece, and you can't get much narrower than that.

As I say, just my personal opinion.

Regards. Peter


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Midnight Dan
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Reged: 01/23/08

Loc: Hilton, NY, Yellow Zone (Bortl...
Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: Jammer53]
      #5772460 - 04/02/13 09:52 AM

Hi Jim:

If you're buying eyepieces ONLY for planetary viewing, and ONLY for use with a tracking mount, then a case can certainly be made that you don't need wide field views. But, my own personal preference is to see a wider view even for planetary observation. I like being able to see more of the moons for context, and it's nice to be able to see other objects when there are the occasional conjunctions.

To me though, the bigger issue is just that good eyepieces are expensive and I don't want to invest in multiple sets for multiple purposes (although I know many people do). I use my EPs in a variety of scopes and mounts, including a manual alt/az mount. If I'm not using a tracking mount, wide fields are VERY helpful in providing high mag views while still allowing reasonable drift time through the field before needing to reposition the scope.

In addition, I want to be able to use my EPs for a variety of targets, not just planets. Purists will argue that the wide field EPs are more complex, use more elements, and have reduced contrast and sharpness compared to EPs like plossls and orthoscopics. That certainly is correct, but I find the differences to be small, at least with good quality wide field EPs, and not worth carrying around multiple sets of EPs and paying the extra bucks for them all.

This is just my 2 cents (and worth every penny!)! But the reason there are so many kinds of EPs is because its a very individual thing and everyones preferences and priorities are different.

-Dan


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Arctic_Eddie
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Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: Midnight Dan]
      #5772495 - 04/02/13 10:11 AM

If you're interested in wide field then your 32mm may already be at the upper limit. This is true if the FOV of the EP is 68 or higher. See this thread for details.

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3619392/page...


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Peter9
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Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: Midnight Dan]
      #5772924 - 04/02/13 01:14 PM

Quote:

Hi Jim:

This is just my 2 cents (and worth every penny!)! But the reason there are so many kinds of EPs is because its a very individual thing and everyones preferences and priorities are different.

-Dan




And who can argue with that.

Regards. Peter.


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azure1961p
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Reged: 01/17/09

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Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: Midnight Dan]
      #5774798 - 04/03/13 07:45 AM

Quote:

Televues are definitely the top of the line in terms of quality. Just keep in mind that a Plossls generally has a field of view of around 50, which can seem somewhat limiting by the standards of modern designs. I think the reason they are often found in the classifieds is because people want to upgrade to wider fields.

-Dan




My stock suggestion is always: get a set of Televue Plossls. I'm thinking of adding but to my signature. One thing to consider about frequency in used ads is the reasoning which can often be a result of one or the other: the product stinks, everyone bought into the hype and then got butter and disenchanted with the reality if the limitations. The 70s used ads were CRAMMED with used Questars everyone wanted to unload particularly after seeing a cheaper C8 whip its butt.

That isn't the case with the plossls though...

The other reason in used ads frequency is the sheer popularity of the product where its abundant new and used. That's the case here in the latter.

It could be true that folks are selling off their plossls to fund the very expensive Ethos and and such mega wide field oculars. This is unfortunate however as my opinion is every eyepiece kit ought to have a foundation set of Televue Plossls (though everyone loves Sterling now too).

Between the contrasty planetary views that accentuate the coffee tinge of jupiters belts for example, wonderful clarity and exquisite doublestar views it provides it holds its own place quite well. You don't need to have an 80 degree field of view and all the extra glass to have first rate views. One eyepiece in particular, the Radian always seems to lag behind plossls in planetary contrast while (based on Internet chatter) the Pentax XW seem to have both high contrast and widefield optimized. But at steeper cost than that of a good plossl.

I've enjoyed views through Naglers but Im just not pushed to the great attraction so many find in using these. But that's just me. The ocular forum is a buzz with mega wide angle topics - tis the rage. Just don't lose sight of the excellence had through one of the most successful four element designs ever.

Pete

Edited by azure1961p (04/03/13 07:49 AM)


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azure1961p
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Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: Jammer53]
      #5774811 - 04/03/13 07:54 AM

Quote:

But does a wider field of view do anything for planetary viewing? I don't have any (just the 32mm that came with my 6SE) but to my thinking a wider field EP would be good for Pleides, or DSO viewing, right? I mean do I need 68 degree FOV for looking at Jupiter? Or Saturn?

Jim




No. It will more than likely detract some from contrast though there are exceptions in the Pentax and Nagler T6 series.* What you are really buying for all the extra cost is extra drift time for the planet to move across your fiend if view in a scope that doesn't track. Too, consider that in a very fast reflector this useful field of view where the is no coma degrading the image might be significantly smaller than the actual field of view hence the need for a coma corrector lens assembly. Aside from tracking, Ive seen Saturn floating in a Nagler field big and empty - I'm not a fan of the look.

Pete
*some of which ice seen firsthand the other being the consensus of what Id regard as reliable observing testimonials from others.

Edited by azure1961p (04/03/13 07:57 AM)


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Jammer53
super member


Reged: 12/18/12

Loc: Central NY
Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5774833 - 04/03/13 08:14 AM

Hi Pete. Thanks for the info. I've been tossing back and forth between the Baader Hyperion Planetariums ($139 new) and the Tele Vue Plossls ($100-120 new) for quite awhile for my 6SE. As you can see in my sig, the only single fl eyepiece I have is the Celestron 32mm, although I do have a Zhumell 8-24 Zoom and a Baader Planetarium 2.25 Barlow. Unfortunately, the weather hasn't been cooperating in the last couple of weeks (got snow yesterday and today), so I haven't been able to use my scope at all.

Anyway, what I'm thinking (and would like opinions on) is which EPs to get, and in what focal length. Pentax and Naglers are way out of my price range. I'm thinking of buying two, either a 13/15/17mm, and a 20/22/24mm to start. Mostly, I want to look at the planets. Some day as I mature in this hobby, I'll look a little deeper. But for now I want to see Mars, Venus, Jupiter and Saturn.

Clear skies!

Jim


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coutleef
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Reged: 02/21/08

Loc: Saint-Donat, Quebec, Canada
Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: Jammer53]
      #5774947 - 04/03/13 09:09 AM

i would suggest to use your zoom for a while and that will give you an idea of what FL suits your need.

i must admit that i like looking at planets at least at 150x. so that would mean at most a 10mm EP. unless you use a barlow the FL you mention will not give a lot of power for viewing planets.

use your zoom for a while and then decide


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Peter9
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Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: coutleef]
      #5775034 - 04/03/13 09:33 AM

I agree with Francois's sound advice. With the 24mm x 8mm zoom you have all the focal lengths you will need for now. If you then decide to buy some single eyepieces, wide angle or not, you will have some idea of the focal lengths to go for i.e the ones you've found most useful with the zoom.

Regards. Peter.


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Jammer53
super member


Reged: 12/18/12

Loc: Central NY
Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: Peter9]
      #5775283 - 04/03/13 11:12 AM

Francois and Peter. Thanks. That is in fact the game plan. But I'm wondering which brand EP to buy as well as focal length. The trouble with my 8-24 is it's not a "click-stop" so I don't have any way to distinguish if I'm at 13mm, 15mm or 20mm (or anywhere in between).

The advice I guess I'm after is what works best for you experienced seers on planetary viewing.

Or maybe I'm just too inexperienced to phrase this properly.

Jim


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BigC
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Reged: 09/29/10

Loc: SE Indiana
Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: Jammer53]
      #5775498 - 04/03/13 12:52 PM

First ,a 20mm ,unless used with a barlow isn't going to give much planetary detail.A 20mm with a 3x or 5x barlow can be pretty good and the big eye relief is helpful to eyeglass wearers.

You bring up a very good question about knowing what equivalent f/l the Z-zoom is at in-between setting.I,too,have one of those.

With warmer weather I hope to observe a bit more and doing a methodical eyepiece comparison is an excellent project.Of course my results might not match your needs.


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Peter9
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Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: Jammer53]
      #5775508 - 04/03/13 12:56 PM

Hi Jim,

I have a Baader 24mm x 8mm "click stop" zoom along with an A&E 24mm x 8mm non "clickstop". While the click stop helps, its not a necessity. I successfully used my non clickstop for many years before Yvonne (our Lass) bought me the Baader.
The A&E zoom is marked at focal lengths 24,20,16,12 and 8mm (as I assume yours is) so half way between 20mm and 16mm would be be near enough 18mm while slightly nearer 20mm would give 19mm etc. The click stop on the Baader is just a guide, it can be used in between the stops.
As I stated in my earlier post, I use the zoom as my main eyepiece and have bought 3 wide angle eyepieces of 26mm, 30mm and 38mm. All are G.S.Os which are on the cheaper side pricewise. They give me very good results at a fair price.

As Dan said, eyepieces are very individual things, so you must study the advice given and make your choice.

Lucky old you.

Regards. Peter.


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Tassydevil
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Reged: 08/17/11

Loc: Tasmania, Australia
Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: Peter9]
      #5777952 - 04/04/13 03:26 PM

An update I went with the 24mm & 13mm Baader, only got a chance to look with the 24mm and wow what a great view over the celestron 25mm that came with the scope so much sharper never got the 13mm out of the box, you know the story Clouds will report again when the sky clears but so far so good

Cheers

Graeme.

Edited by Tassydevil (04/04/13 03:28 PM)


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Midnight Dan
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Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: Tassydevil]
      #5778063 - 04/04/13 04:23 PM

Congrats on the new eyepieces. Wait till you get a chance to try out that 13mm!

-Dan


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Jammer53
super member


Reged: 12/18/12

Loc: Central NY
Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: Tassydevil]
      #5778075 - 04/04/13 04:28 PM

Nice. Do let us know how you like the 13mm. I'm on the fence between the Baaders and the TeleVue Plossls.

Thanks.

Jim


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Jammer53
super member


Reged: 12/18/12

Loc: Central NY
Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: Arctic_Eddie]
      #5778169 - 04/04/13 05:20 PM

A.E. I had already read your thread that you linked. Someone else had pointed me to it in another thread. Thanks for the info.

I'm not really interested in wide angle views at this point. I'm really trying to concentrate on planets and the moon for my first few months of warm weather. I've only had it out once since I bought it and froze my patoot off.

Jim


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ben2112
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Reged: 07/12/12

Loc: North Charleston SC
Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: Jammer53]
      #5778185 - 04/04/13 05:30 PM

Cool!! Yeah, the Baader is like a night and day difference.

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Jammer53
super member


Reged: 12/18/12

Loc: Central NY
Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: ben2112]
      #5778636 - 04/04/13 09:33 PM

Ben, are you saying the Baaders are better than the Televue Plossls? Do you/have you had both?

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ben2112
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Reged: 07/12/12

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Re: Eyepieces for 6se please new [Re: Jammer53]
      #5778776 - 04/04/13 11:17 PM

No.. I don't have any TV eyepieces. But comparing the Baader eyepieces to my Celestron eyepiece kit I got with my scope, there is a huge difference. From my understanding, any TV eyepieces are going to be to notch.

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