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Peter9
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: MadHungarian]
      #6463375 - 04/13/14 07:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:


...
I'd read it as "the hand-controller is an optional item that you'll have to buy".
...





I'd definitely read it that way too.

Another good thing about the hand controller is that its battery lasts longer.




I wasn't aware that the hand controller had its own battery??

Regards. Peter


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dtripz
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: Peter9]
      #6463428 - 04/13/14 08:08 AM

I think he means that the hand controller can run off the base without needing to have wifi on. There is no battery in the controller.

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jki
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: dtripz]
      #6463451 - 04/13/14 08:25 AM

just wonder if they will be selling the mount by itself without the OTA

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herrointment
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: jki]
      #6463461 - 04/13/14 08:43 AM

I think this shows that Celestron is listening to their customers! No battery and hc wires? Sign me up!

And furthermore.....if history is any indication and I certainly believe that it is then it stands to reason that the 9 1/4" model will be the one to avoid if a steady view is foremost for you. They may sell it but that does not mean it should be sold and there are plenty of examples in the current lineup to help slam home that tidbit.


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Seiko4169
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: herrointment]
      #6463545 - 04/13/14 09:38 AM

Did someone mention price? That's the key decision for me? Batteries and wifi are nice but don't mean that much to me on a personal level as they're simple accessories.

If the clutches allow the OTA to be moved and still keep the position that would be nice. I'd also want tube vents and quiet slewing?


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Dadadee
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: Seiko4169]
      #6463692 - 04/13/14 10:49 AM

Celestron site list them at 1200/1600/2100

The Evolution 6 sells at the price of the Nexstar SE8. For the same price, do you prefer 2" of aperture or better gears/WIFI and a battery?


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mclewis1
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: Dadadee]
      #6463774 - 04/13/14 11:32 AM

Ben,

With video observing you'd definitely prefer a more robust mount with better gears to a small increase in aperture. Smoother tracking will allow you to push your integration times up. In a light polluted area that will mean you will be able to use more aggressive filtering ... which means better views of fainter objects. This of course assumes that your video camera can take advantage of the increase in integration times.

Remember though that this new series is still an alt az mount so there are the inherent limitations due to field rotation ... so even with better tracking you're not going to be able to go with multiple minute integrations. But being able to consistently use 30-60s integrations is IMHO a sweet spot for video observing ... with fast optics it really opens up a wide variety of objects even under pretty bad light pollution.

The SE mounts may if they are a good example and well setup be able to go into that range. The Evolution with it's better gearing should be able to do that consistently. This assumption is based on the comparison of performance between the 6/8SEs and the Meade LS series.

With scopes of this size a 2" increase in aperture will mean almost nothing to a video setup ... smoother tracking will however make for better images regardless of how good the optics on the mount are.


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Midnight Dan
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: mclewis1]
      #6463808 - 04/13/14 11:58 AM

Just picking up on this thread. Very cool!

Seems to me like a replacement for the CPC line, at that price. They have the worm gears (HUGE improvement!), but use the single fork and dovetail which means it will be easy to balance or to move the OTA to another mount. The one thing that pushed me away from the CPC mount originally was that locked-in dual fork design.

-Dan


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Peter9
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: Midnight Dan]
      #6463868 - 04/13/14 12:28 PM

I think we need to see if there is any increased stability with the 8" and 9.25" Evolution on the supplied tripod. Lots of 8se users have used the sturdier CPC tripod for greater stability. They have reported some increase in stability, but also said that it is not the complete cure.
I think the Evolution range is a replacement for the se range and not aimed at the CPCs. My choice of a permanently mount scope would still be a CPC over the Evolution.

Regards. Peter


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MadHungarian
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: Peter9]
      #6463917 - 04/13/14 12:53 PM

I'd agree with that, for a fixed mount, or even a serious field expedition. I really love the stability of a fork mount. So i won't be replacing my CPC1100 anytime soon either.

However for less formal field use, my back definitely does NOT like the heavy CPC1100 65lb fork mount anymore. A single-fork mounted scope that can break down into lighter individual components would be real nice (before my poor back decides to break down into lighter individual components...).


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A. Viegas
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: MadHungarian]
      #6464059 - 04/13/14 02:28 PM

If you look at the new Celestron 2014 product brochure you will notice the CPC line is only HD series... So yes, the evolution will REPLACE the non HD CPC series...

Al


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Seiko4169
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #6464199 - 04/13/14 03:58 PM

Well I thought the product line up looked a little squashed. Still I wonder whether they'll still offer the nexstar SE range?

Wouldn't a unified set of OTA's on the two alt az mount types, evolution and cpc HD work well?

Edited by Seiko4169 (04/13/14 03:59 PM)


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Peter9
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #6464221 - 04/13/14 04:12 PM

I have just been on the Celestron site and the non HD CPC series is in their 2014 catalog (page 11)
http://www.celestron.com/media/153233/2014-telescopecatalog-1.pdf

Regards. Peter.


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mclewis1
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #6464232 - 04/13/14 04:18 PM

It appears from Celestron's marketing info and reports from NEAF that the Evolution series is effectively a single arm CPC. By using a variety of tripods a wider range of packages can be offered. I'm not sure if there's enough arm length to handle the big C11 ota but outside of that tube the Evolution can handle the C9.25 and is a substantial upgrade from the 6/8SE mount. The positioning with the C8 ota is exactly in between the SE and the CPC series.

With better motors and gearing than the SEs but carrying over the Vixen/CG-5 dovetail saddle the Evolution will also be a popular alt az option for a variety of other (non Celestron) otas. This position will only be enhanced if Celestron also offers the mount on it's own at a reasonable price point. (note to Celestron - don't get greedy, you have a unique opportunity here). Perhaps also offer the mount only config with a dual type of saddle for either D or V type dovetails?

The Evolution also appears to be an interesting option for AP, especially in the field. Short fl refractors, other Cassegrains (RCs for example), and smaller Newtonians all appear to be possibilities on a wedge mounted Evolution. If the Evolution proves to have good smooth gearing then configurations with a wedge could be a popular option vs. lower and mid sized gems (CG-5/AVX, CGEMs, etc.).


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A. Viegas
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: Peter9]
      #6464235 - 04/13/14 04:20 PM

Hi Peter,

OOps looks like I mispoke, just looked at the catalog again "Celestron 2014 Astronomy Products" and indeed the original CPC line is still there, next the to original Nexstar SE line... sorry about that goof...

Al


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Peter9
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #6464246 - 04/13/14 04:28 PM

Now't spoiling Al.

It's an interesting one this.
I can't see a single armed mount being able to give the same rigidity as the excellent forked mount of the CPC series.
Perhaps Celestron will run all the existing models along side each other for a while.

Regards. Peter.


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gaz-in
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: Peter9]
      #6464493 - 04/13/14 07:20 PM

While at NEAF, I did a bit f a shake test on each. The 9.25 noticeably had less movement than the 8. The tripod on the 9.25 was very substantial.

Really a very nice mount!


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Digital Don
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: Seiko4169]
      #6464758 - 04/13/14 10:09 PM

According to the description, the new mounts contain worm gears. That should be an improvement over the spur gear setup found in the 'SE' type mounts.

However, I would have to question how stable in actual use a 20 pound tube assembly (9.25") is going to be on a single fork arm mount.

Don


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MadHungarian
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution new [Re: mclewis1]
      #6464983 - 04/14/14 01:23 AM

Quote:


...
The Evolution also appears to be an interesting option for AP, especially in the field. Short fl refractors, other Cassegrains (RCs for example), and smaller Newtonians all appear to be possibilities on a wedge mounted Evolution. If the Evolution proves to have good smooth gearing then configurations with a wedge could be a popular option vs. lower and mid sized gems (CG-5/AVX, CGEMs, etc.).



Oh yeah, i didn't think about that. Unlike the big 65lb CPC fork-mount, the Evolution should actually be light enough to put on a wedge in the field by mere mortals. Maybe 20-25lbs for the heaviest single component?

Hmm. Now combine it with that mallincam i want to buy, and i could actually do multi-minute video integration.

Maybe i'll yet be able to avoid having to learn/master polar alignment...

Of course, it remains to be seen whether the Evolution mount can actually handle running at a serious angle. Assuming the thing actually works reliably even without a wedge. Who's going to take the plunge and be the guinea pig?


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Brollen
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Re: Celestron NexStar Evolution [Re: MadHungarian]
      #6465115 - 04/14/14 06:09 AM

Really quite intriguing and compelling... there maybe a future for the Evo 9.25 for me as the GPS 9.25 is quite a beast to break-down, setup, break-down and setup for any viewing/post-viewing session.

Interesting to parse through the product details although they maybe wrong:
8": http://www.celestron.com/browse-shop/astronomy/telescopes/nexstar-evolution-8
9.25": http://www.celestron.com/browse-shop/astronomy/telescopes/nexstar-evolution-925

There is only a 6 lb difference between the 8" & the 9.25", where as I thought there was at least a 10 lb difference in the OTAs alone.

Also of great interest are the specs on the 8" 2nd'ary mirror from the above:
Secondary Mirror Obstruction 2.5 in (64 mm)
Secondary Mirror Obstruction by Area 9.77%

which must not be right - the obstruction size (2.5") has not changed yet the area they list is significantly smaller ... maybe the size of the obstruction has shrunk and they have it listed incorrectly!

Also of interest, Celestron now has a 102mm ED refractor listed at a very attractive price with mount.

Very cool - can't wait to see these in the flesh.


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