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astroman100082
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Reged: 06/28/13

Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating
      #5949106 - 07/01/13 04:25 AM Attachment (41 downloads)

Hey there, my name is Guy and I have the celestron cpc 1100 with the xlt coatings, and recently i tried to remove fingerprints on the corrector lens with a cosmetic cottonball soaked with water, but it just made more markings of dried water on it.. i think the problem was that i used regular water and not the distilled one..
So after the long story, what do you recommend me to do? and how should i clean the corrector lens if it has the BrightStar XLT coatings? (you can see the picture i added)
Thank you so much,
Guy


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mclewis1
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: astroman100082]
      #5949378 - 07/01/13 10:11 AM

Hi Guy, welcome to CN.

http://www.arksky.org/asoclean.htm

Basically dilute Windex and an effective rinse (some folks don't even dilute the Windex ... your corrector coatings are indeed quite robust). One general rule ... don't re use any item or material to wipe your corrector (microfibre cloths for example), use only single use wipes.

Edited by mclewis1 (07/01/13 10:12 AM)


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Never2Busy4You
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: astroman100082]
      #5949391 - 07/01/13 10:22 AM

Hey Guy,
I use Dr. Clay's method of cleaning as well as his ingredients mixture and it has never failed for me.
Here's the link, but you might have to cut n paste it.

http://www.arksky.org/asoclean.htm

The most important part in not leaving streaks or drying marks behind is how you roll the cleaner off the surface, read his article a couple times over and it will be clear to you. Also, just using water, distiller or not, doesn't have anything in it to help dissolve and lift off (clean) the grease from fingerprints or other detritus, nor a drying agent.
One thing I would comment on about his mix is the Kodak PhotoFlo, it can be hard to find, and pricey for a bottle when the mix only calls minute amount. The last batch I made I couldn't find the PhotoFlo so I just mixed & used it without, and it worked just fine.
I have used this on my CPC1100 & CPC800 both with the XLT Coatings, as well as an Orion MAK, and 2 Williams Optic Refractors and have always had great results. Get familiar with the cleaning process choose a cleaning fluid, take your time and you'll have great results as well.
You can find his Cleaner already mixed including brushes and wipes for sale from certain vendors if you don't want to make your own.
Clear Skies,
Jeffrey G.


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Never2Busy4You
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5949402 - 07/01/13 10:28 AM

Hey Mark,
I must have been working my reply right when you posted yours!
Well, Great minds do think alike!
Clear Skies,
Jeffrey G.


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rookie
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: Never2Busy4You]
      #5950318 - 07/01/13 08:34 PM

The problem with fingerprints, pollen and bug stuff is that is has an oil base. Plain water, just make streaks.
Step 1: Blow the dust off the glass with a bulb syringe. If you want to use a can of compressed air, discharge it a ways away from the glass. Some pack a lot of pressure and cause harm.
Step 2: Brush the glass with a very soft brush to remove dust that was not removed in Step 1. I use a Windsor Newton Series 240 #3 Art brush
Step 3: To break the down and remove the oil, you need a little soap. Try putting a drop of Dawn in a cup of water. Mix with a spoon. Dip a 100% cotton ball in the solution and squeeze out the excess so the water does not run into the ring assembly that holds the glass. Wipe the corrector gently in wide arcs. Change the cotton ball frequently. Rinse with distilled water in the same manner that the soapy water was used to clean.
Step 4: Use your breath to cloud the glass and gently wipe the glass with a microfiber cloth used to clean eyeglasses. I've never used windex or other window cleaning products.

I use these steps to clean my ep's but substitute qtips for the cotton balls, and 91% ethanol instead of soapy water. Specific solutions made to clean this glass are probably wonderful. I've just never used them.


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Stacy
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: rookie]
      #5950682 - 07/02/13 01:41 AM

I use a good quality lens cleaner designed for anti-reflective coatings. Sparkle lens cleaner was designed for exactly that purpose. Almost as important, it's anti-static, which helps keep your corrector from being a magnet for airborn dust and dirt particles. It's also used and endorsed by major university labs for high end microsope objectives and lenses.

You can use a home brew ripe with colorings and fragrances and ammonia or you could use the tools designed for the job. I would also avoid cotton balls unless you are certain they are 100% cotton and do not contain synthetics. Same with swabs. Optical grade microfiber cloths in bulk are safe and only run about a dollar each. Use once, then toss. A thirty pack might last 30 years lol!

lens cleaner

As always JMHO


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astroman100082
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: Never2Busy4You]
      #5950763 - 07/02/13 04:17 AM

Thank you very much for your help!
I've heard much of these forums and i'm looking forward to be part of the community.
One last thing, can you please give me the website where i can order the stuff, because i couldn't find one.. (i hope they ship outside of US also =) ).
Clear skies to you all


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astroman100082
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: astroman100082]
      #5950765 - 07/02/13 04:22 AM

And one more thing Stacy,
does your lens cleaner suitable for the xlt coating?


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mclewis1
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: astroman100082]
      #5951062 - 07/02/13 10:24 AM

Quote:

One last thing, can you please give me the website where i can order the stuff, because i couldn't find one.. (i hope they ship outside of US also.



Here are all the dry bits and pieces. You would provide the clean filtered water, alcohol, Windex.
http://www.optcorp.com/opt-doc-clay-cleaning-kit-dry-version-spckit-d.html

The only things I might add to this would be a simple rubber air blower (available at most good camera stores or online) - don't use canned/compressed air unless you really know what you are doing and perhaps some Q-tips for cleaning small spots (like eyepieces), just be careful not let the Q-tip get pulled at the edges otherwise you'll end up with little threads stuck in the edges (which is very annoying in an eyepiece).



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rmollise
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: astroman100082]
      #5951213 - 07/02/13 11:54 AM

Quote:

Hey there, my name is Guy and I have the celestron cpc 1100 with the xlt coatings, and recently i tried to remove fingerprints on the corrector lens with a cosmetic cottonball soaked with water, but it just made more markings of dried water on it.. i think the problem was that i used regular water and not the distilled one..
So after the long story, what do you recommend me to do? and how should i clean the corrector lens if it has the BrightStar XLT coatings? (you can see the picture i added)
Thank you so much,
Guy




Same thing as always:

Blue (original) Windex
White (no lotion) Kleenex
Canned air

Dust the corrector with the canned air. Clean with a tissue wetted with Windex. Swab outward from corrector. Change tissues frequently and dry with a clean one. Dust any lint remaining with the canned air.

This is what I have been doing for 35 years with uncoated correctors, multi-coated correctors, UHTC correctors, and XLT correctors. Never hurt a thing and my clean correctors are the envy of my friends..


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Stacy
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: astroman100082]
      #5951380 - 07/02/13 01:44 PM

Quote:

And one more thing Stacy,
does your lens cleaner suitable for the xlt coating?




Absolutely!


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Never2Busy4You
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: rmollise]
      #5951447 - 07/02/13 02:37 PM

Quote:


Blue (original) Windex
White (no lotion) Kleenex
Canned air

This is what I have been doing for 35 years;
Never hurt a thing and my clean correctors are the envy of my friends




Hey Unk,
I also clean my correctors whenever needed.
For me 2 to 6 times a year, depending on when the scopes are used.
Spring Pollen can be a big hastle for me so I have an 8" 1980's Meade that I use when anything outside for more than a minute gets a yellow dusting of sticky & stubborn pine pollen all over it, usually lasts around 3 weeks.
I clean the eye lenses of my EP's quite frequently, especially if other people have used them. ( I do alot of day & night outreach and have found women's eyelash make up is the worst! UGHH! )

I can't wrap my head around where the idea that modern coatings are some extremely fragile thing. My items look just like when they were new, unless I personally did something foolish with them.
I have a Tele Vue Zoom EP that I use to take pictures through from time to time, and I have noticed that I have some seeks and marks on the eye lens from where I pressed the camera's lens barrel against it, but I knew I was doing it and I use it for outreach so people can use their camera the same way & I don't have to worry about it.
Anyhoo,
I was happy to see your comment, it was reassuring that I'm not alone in this way.
Thanks,
Jeffrey G.


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rmollise
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: Never2Busy4You]
      #5951481 - 07/02/13 03:02 PM

Quote:




I can't wrap my head around where the idea that modern coatings are some extremely fragile thing. My items look just like when they were new, unless I personally did something foolish with them.




Some folks tend to confuse first surface mirror coatings (relatively delicate) with lens coatings (very tough).


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Never2Busy4You
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: rmollise]
      #5951504 - 07/02/13 03:13 PM

I totally hadn't thought about that, it makes perfect sense.
I think there are quite a lot of scopes out there that could be producing much better views for their users if some of these old myths, and confusions would stop being circulated.
Thanks for the enlightenment,
JG


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rookie
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: rmollise]
      #5951940 - 07/02/13 07:27 PM

Quote:

Same thing as always:

Blue (original) Windex
White (no lotion) Kleenex
Canned air

Dust the corrector with the canned air. Clean with a tissue wetted with Windex. Swab outward from corrector. Change tissues frequently and dry with a clean one. Dust any lint remaining with the canned air.

This is what I have been doing for 35 years with uncoated correctors, multi-coated correctors, UHTC correctors, and XLT correctors. Never hurt a thing and my clean correctors are the envy of my friends..





I guess I can stop being so fussy. Thanks!


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Stacy
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: Never2Busy4You]
      #5951998 - 07/02/13 08:01 PM

1. Windex is a household cleaner that contains ammonia.
2. Ammonia has alkaline properties and is corrosive.
3. Putting corrosive liquids on your corrector plate could very likely damage your coatings and/or the corrector itself.

Of course, there is no law against it and it would seem that some people have found it safe and effective. YMMV.

When all else fails, you could read what the manufacturer writes about cleaning your corrector:

Quote:

From Celestron: "If dust has built up on the corrector plate, remove it with a brush (made of camelís hair) or a can of pressurized air.

Spray at an angle to the lens for approximately two to four seconds. Then, use an optical cleaning solution and white tissue paper to remove any remaining debris. Apply the solution to the tissue and then apply the tissue paper to the lens. Low pressure strokes should go from the center of the corrector to the outer portion. Do NOT rub in circles!

You can use a commercially made lens cleaner or mix your own. A good cleaning solution is isopropyl alcohol mixed with distilled water. The solution should be 60% isopropyl alcohol and 40% distilled water. Or, liquid dish soap diluted with water (a couple of drops per one quart of water) can be used."




Easy enough to make your own, but this product does nothing about static, which can cause your corrector to become a magnet for dust, dirt and whatever else is floating around in the air. That's why I recommend the lens cleaner, for it's anti-static properties.

Canned air is generally safe, but there is always a chance some of the propellent will shoot out and eat a hole right through your corrector. Just kidding, that probably will not happen. But I bought a three pack once for cleaning optics and did notice things other than "air" can squirt out of those cans!

Kleenex will also work, but I don't see the need when optical grade cloths are cheap, readily available and less abrasive.

So absolutely do not be afraid to clean your optics. Just be sure to use quality products designed for the task. Or you could just use Windex and toilet paper. It's really just personal opinion as you can see.

As always, JMHO.

Stacy


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rmollise
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: Stacy]
      #5952759 - 07/03/13 09:23 AM

Quote:

1. Windex is a household cleaner that contains ammonia.
2. Ammonia has alkaline properties and is corrosive.
3. Putting corrosive liquids on your corrector plate could very likely damage your coatings and/or the corrector itself.





1. Windex doesn't contain ammonia, and even if it did, that wouldn't hurt your coatings.

2. See above.

3. See above.

4. Yeah, I know you only had three...but... I've been using this method since the 1970s, so you'd think I've have noticed problems by now, wouldn't you? But what the hell do I know.


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Stacy
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: rmollise]
      #5953047 - 07/03/13 12:31 PM

Quote:

1. Windex doesn't contain ammonia, and even if it did, that wouldn't hurt your coatings.




1. Liquid ammonia is a primary ingredient of Windex.

2. Liquid ammonia will dissolve alkali metals and other electropositive metals such as magnesium, calcium, strontium, barium, europium and ytterbium.

3. Magnesium fluoride is commonly used in anti-reflective coatings including Celestron's XLT coatings.

Do you really want to put a corrosive liquid, known to dissolve the metals used in anti-reflective coatings, on your telescope?

I didn't think so.

Stacy

Windex Ingredients

Ammonia Wiki


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rmollise
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: Stacy]
      #5953273 - 07/03/13 02:40 PM

Sigh...

Windex will not hurt your corrector coatings. Since I've been using this for going on 40 years, I should know. Do you think I'm blind, stupid or pulling your dadgum leg?



Edited by rmollise (07/03/13 02:41 PM)


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Larry F
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: rmollise]
      #5954459 - 07/04/13 08:35 AM

Original Windex does not contain ammonia. Here's a link to its MSDS sheet that gives the composition. What I didn't see in the ingredient list is what makes it blue...I assume some very dilute dye of some type, since none of the listed ingredients are colored. The ethylene glycol monohexyl ether (hexyl Cellosolve) is what gets the dirt and grease into solution. Sparkle Optical Lens Cleaner apparently consists of water and 2-butoxyethanol. Here's its MSDS sheet.

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jrbarnett
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: Stacy]
      #5955520 - 07/05/13 02:12 AM

Windex doesn't work for me. It leaves a hard to remove residue and has stained a couple of my correctors. Not even ROR or Pursol can remove these stains.

- Jim


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jrbarnett
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: Larry F]
      #5955522 - 07/05/13 02:17 AM

Outdated data.

Windex does indeed contain Ammonium Hydroxide.

http://www.whatsinsidescjohnson.com/en-us/products-by-brand/windex/windex-ori...

The ingredients page also tells you what makes it blue.

Regards,

Jim

Edited by jrbarnett (07/05/13 02:18 AM)


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Larry F
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5955686 - 07/05/13 08:15 AM

This is very odd. There's another MSDS sheet here from the manufacturer that doesn't list any components. This is labeled "Windex Original Glass Cleaner" and the one you cite is labeled "Original Windex with Ammonia-D". Yet only the Ammonia-D product is listed on their web site. Maybe the great stuff that Rod was using for 40 years is gone, "improved" for our uselessness.

I like the idea of "Sparkle" anyway, recalling the wonderful Mr. Sparkle commercial on The Simpsons.


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rmollise
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: Larry F]
      #5955690 - 07/05/13 08:18 AM

It is unclear on the "ammonia" that is in Windex. The manufacturer says it is "Ammonia D," but is reluctant to describe exactly what that is.

The bottom line, though? Windex won't hurt your corrector coatings. Period. And it is the best and safest cleaner for it.


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Larry F
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: rmollise]
      #5956306 - 07/05/13 04:06 PM

Maybe it's deuterated ammonia? Maybe they want to appeal to us geeks?

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rmollise
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: Larry F]
      #5956409 - 07/05/13 05:20 PM

They should be so perceptive.

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Stacy
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: rmollise]
      #5959857 - 07/08/13 12:00 AM

Quote:

It is unclear on the "ammonia" that is in Windex. The manufacturer says it is "Ammonia D," but is reluctant to describe exactly what that is.




Not really sure where you are getting your information. The company that makes Windex (Johnson & Son) is quite clear about the ammonia used in their product. They also do not recommend it's use on surfaces that would suffer from ammonia.

This is a lively discussion however, and I would love to see what the scientific community has to say about it.

Uncle Rod says it's safe and effective. I believe it's potentially harmful to your coatings.

I am going to call Celestron tomorrow, and see what they say about it. I actually hope Uncle Ron is correct, because my corrector needs a good cleaning, and that would simplify the whole process... However, I doubt they will say much more than what's in the official manual, which has already been posted......

Quote:

Ammonium Hydroxide (From Johnson & Son website)

Ammonium Hydroxide is commonly referred to as ammonia and is found in air, soil and water. Many consumers use it at home for cleaning and laundry. Itís a cleaning agent that removes dirt, and it can also be used as a pH adjuster that alters the pH of a product to improve stability. Every formula has an optimum pH to make it work best. For example, a formula thatís more acidic works better for soap scum removal. Its opposite, a formula thatís more alkaline, might be more effective at removing grease or greasy soils. We use pH adjusters to make sure we achieve the best pH for a particular job. Also, the pH of a formula can affect how long it lasts within a container Ė for example limiting its tendency to rust in a steel can. Household ammonia has a strong odor; by using Ammonium Hydroxide in combination with other ingredients, we can achieve the same cleaning results while using much less ammonia.




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astroman100082
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Reged: 06/28/13

Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: Stacy]
      #5960727 - 07/08/13 03:24 PM

Thank you very much for your help guys! I appreciate it!
Guy


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Stacy
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: astroman100082]
      #5962475 - 07/09/13 04:28 PM

Called Celestron and they were non-committal as expected. However a little research provided some insight into the issue.

Al Nagler mentions Windex on the TeleVue website as a potential cleaner, that used sparingly, is safe and effective on TeleVue eyepieces.

Another important item to consider is what is the nature of the dirt? Is it water soluble?

A quick Google search on "windex optics" reveals more of the story. It's a hotly debated topic on many web forums from hunting to photography. Many are for and many are against, and just about everybody cites a personal experience either good or bad to back up their opinions.

The simplest argument against it's use however was from someone who had not tried it. just a simple question that spoke to my logical side.

Why use something that is so hotly debated, when there are products uniquely designed to clean coated optics, that not only yield excellent results, they are safe, inexpensive and readily available?

Also a warning against "canned air" I found. It's safe to use in most applications, but there are pitfalls that can ruin your optics, especially on Fluorite lenses. It can also condense moisture from the air (depending on your humidity level) and deposit it on your lens in the form of a hard opaque stain. YMMV.

I found an excellent primer on cleaning optics at the "Company 7" web site. A company well known for their relentless pursuit of quality. Click Here

Good luck.

Stacy


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iam1ru12
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: Stacy]
      #5963248 - 07/09/13 11:38 PM

I'll chime in here as well. I've used Dr. Clay's method (http://www.arksky.org/asoclean.htm) as well with much success on my personal scopes, my club's loaner telescops and a cleaning session we ran with the NC State Physics Department (their 12 8" SCTs used for astronomy labs were in rather poor shape).

Dr. Clay does recommend using Windex but I want to make sure everyone reading this thread is aware of exactly how it is to be used. We're not talking about grabbing a bottle from your cleaning supplies and spraying it right on your optics. We're talking about filtering the Windex then diluting it. It's one ounce Windex combined with 1.5 ounces of "pure" isopropyl alcohol and 2 drops of Kodak PhotoFlo solution. This 2.5 ounce solution is mixed with 12 ounces of distilled water. It is this final solution, that contains some filtered Windex, that is applied to your pure cotton / synthetic cotton pads which then lightly used on your optics.

Regards,
-Mike


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Stacy
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: iam1ru12]
      #5965978 - 07/11/13 04:10 PM

From Celestron,

Quote:

Dear Stacy,

Thank you for contacting Celestron Technical Services. We spoke a few days ago and you mentioned that on a forum it was mentioned you can use Windex to clean your corrector. Can you provide us with the forum that indicates the information? Windex is not used to clean the corrector. See links from our knowledgebase.

http://www.celestron.com/c3/support3/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewar...

http://www.celestron.com/c3/support3/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewar...

Thank you

Celestron Technical Support




Like I said, fairly non-committal, except they do not recommend it.


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dougvolfan
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: Larry F]
      #6080341 - 09/14/13 12:47 PM

i have tried to clean the corrector plate with the cloths that come with eps. Unfortunately I did rub in circles in some place and applied a little pressure. Last night I could not focus any stars. Did I screw up the corrective lens or maybe bump the outer cover of the secondary mirror cover? Also if the corrector plate is screwed up can celestron put on another?

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Brian RisleyModerator
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Re: Cleaning corrector lens with XLT coating new [Re: dougvolfan]
      #6080394 - 09/14/13 01:20 PM

Do you have any added accessories that might have screws extending into the mirror path? It takes a lot more than cleaning to make you not able to focus. (I have a C-8 with a cracked corrector and a primary mirror where sections of the coating are missing. It still comes to focus and presents a decent image! ) Look inside along the edge of the mirror and see if any screws are close to the mirror. If there are, then back them out until they clear the mirror. (Don't remove any flush mounted screws on the rear cell, just the round headed ones.) Was this an ota removed from a fork mount? If so, the screws that were holding the fork should be replaced with much shorter ones!
Don't force focus, if you have a screw hitting, then you could damage the mirror.

Did you remove the corrector or secondary or add something like Bob's Knobs or in any way mess with the screws holding the secondary? If so you could be way out of collimation.
You need to look up collimating a C-8 and check the initial rough alignment from the front (about 10 feet away, see if the reflections are concentric. If they aren't then we need to have some idea about what you have recently done to the scope to figure out where to start.
If you have a club in your area, see if someone there is experienced with a C-8 and collimation.
Brian


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