Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home page


Observing >> Solar System Observing

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | (show all)
Hal9000
sage


Reged: 02/13/06

Loc: Liverpool, England.
Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: David Knisely]
      #5509387 - 11/08/12 05:03 AM

Quote:

Well, I got some of the best seeing and transparency in a long time. Uranus was as tack-sharp as I have seen it recently




That's a great pic David! Al.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
David Knisely
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/19/04

Loc: southeastern Nebraska
Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: stanislas-jean]
      #5510022 - 11/08/12 01:56 PM

It is *not* a photo! It is a drawing I did using my paint software that accurately represents what I saw in the eyepiece (which wasn't hard to do for obvious reasons). Unlike some people's work, it clearly shows the limb darkening and the color of the planet. Clear skies to you.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hal9000
sage


Reged: 02/13/06

Loc: Liverpool, England.
Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: David Knisely]
      #5510134 - 11/08/12 03:29 PM

Quote:

It is *not* a photo! It is a drawing I did using my paint software that accurately represents what I saw in the eyepiece




Fantastic!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
telescopemullet
professor emeritus
****

Reged: 11/16/09

Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: Hal9000]
      #5510165 - 11/08/12 03:56 PM

Since 2009, Stan the Uranus Man has posted his drawings here: http://alpo-j.asahikawa-med.ac.jp/Latest/Uranus.htm.

Every single one of his drawings have these fictitious features. It will be impossible for him to admit that he is drawing fiction given that he has been doing it for quite some time now and he is firmly rooted in his disbelief. He is a paradigm of one, he is entrenched. Truly there has to be more to astronomy that drawing Uranus to fit one's imagination and self inflate one's ego?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: telescopemullet]
      #5510429 - 11/08/12 07:27 PM

Quote:

Since 2009, Stan the Uranus Man has posted his drawings here: http://alpo-j.asahikawa-med.ac.jp/Latest/Uranus.htm.

Every single one of his drawings have these fictitious features. It will be impossible for him to admit that he is drawing fiction given that he has been doing it for quite some time now and he is firmly rooted in his disbelief. He is a paradigm of one, he is entrenched. Truly there has to be more to astronomy that drawing Uranus to fit one's imagination and self inflate one's ego?




Mullet,

Why do you persist in badgering Stan so rudely?
I have yet to see you produce anything whatsoever to back up anything you've said. David is at least looking, and going by his own observations. Christophe has come back with evidence of visual detection of the bands. And, people were recording bands on Uranus long before any spacecraft went there.

So, what's your problem? We all know you think Stan is lying. Why don't you just knock it off? Put up or shut up - unless you can offer something to support your contentions, just leave the discussion to the people who are actually discussing it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
azure1961p
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: Asbytec]
      #5510475 - 11/08/12 08:11 PM

What's funny here is that I can almost see a dither of detail in Daves rendering. Its completely illusary but it is persistent. Curiously Uranus itself doesn't do this. Its merely neat clean and gun blue-grey. If its ok on my nights off this weekend ill give this planet a gander but if its like last time it'll be quite blank.

Pete


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
telescopemullet
professor emeritus
****

Reged: 11/16/09

Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5510495 - 11/08/12 08:28 PM

Stan continues to draw and perpetuate his fantasy. I can post that I disagree. I haved observed Uranus many times with each of my scopes, what relevance is there that I, like others, continue to see nothing? There is nothing more to add in support of the fact that nothing visually can be seen with the paltry scopes Stan is using. So, Stan will continue to draw, I can continue to post that I think he is making this stuff up.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
azure1961p
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: Hal9000]
      #5510526 - 11/08/12 08:49 PM

"I think there may be a bit of this going on... below!

Al."

Now here's a case where the guy went to hell with himself and immersed is expectations in a bath of suggestion - some misinterpreted other purely conjured up and still other just artifacts of the eye brain working too too hard. I really regret in a way we know as much as we do in a small but real way. Up until Mariner flewby and atom bombed the canal theory this had to be a compelling object in a way no other planet can be.
The canals were *seen* by all walks of amateur astronomer. From ones own backyard you could see firsthand the superstructures of another civilization tens of millions of miles across solar space. For these believers in the canals and as a result -observers- this had to be astronomy like none other. Imagine they WERE right and Mariner sent pix of massi e aquaducts and pipelines. Imagine how different our world would be today and how deeply established a Mars/Earthpresence would be. Apollo would have left off exactly at the point mars exploring hit overdrive. Lame skylab - an apollo program wind down and shutoff- wouldve been seen as folly in the face of an uncovered extra terrestrial cibilization. Even politics would have entered the stage... there's and ours.

Oh well.

Pete


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5510607 - 11/08/12 09:34 PM

Pete, what size scope is required to "see" canals on Mars? I have never perceived them. I really did want to see detail on Uranus, and it did seem to boil a little in pretty good seeing giving the impression there were albedo changes on the disc. But, they were in no particular or persistent pattern that one could call a feature. IME, anyway. Limb darkening was pretty obvious.

My concern on seeing such features is their very low contrast on the order of 2%, apparently. Those are bright, low contrast features that require some magnification (>50x per inch) to bring them to a scale where the human eye can actually see down to about 5% contrast. That limit might be for an average human eye, and maybe some folks can go deeper down to about 1% contrast. But, that's an exceptional ability. And one would think all other light should be filtered out to have the best chance of enhancing that feature contrast.

http://cityastronomy.com/rez-mag-contrast.htm


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5510663 - 11/08/12 10:07 PM

B
Quote:

Quote:

Since 2009, Stan the Uranus Man has posted his drawings here: http://alpo-j.asahikawa-med.ac.jp/Latest/Uranus.htm.

Every single one of his drawings have these fictitious features. It will be impossible for him to admit that he is drawing fiction given that he has been doing it for quite some time now and he is firmly rooted in his disbelief. He is a paradigm of one, he is entrenched. Truly there has to be more to astronomy that drawing Uranus to fit one's imagination and self inflate one's ego?




Mullet,

Why do you persist in badgering Stan so rudely?
I have yet to see you produce anything whatsoever to back up anything you've said. David is at least looking, and going by his own observations. Christophe has come back with evidence of visual detection of the bands. And, people were recording bands on Uranus long before any spacecraft went there.

So, what's your problem? We all know you think Stan is lying. Why don't you just knock it off? Put up or shut up - unless you can offer something to support your contentions, just leave the discussion to the people who are actually discussing it.





Yeah Mullet ! Geez ! Get a life for cryin out loud .


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
stanislas-jean
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/22/08

Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: starrancher]
      #5510952 - 11/09/12 01:44 AM

All these posts are just polemic and try to make closure of this forum.
They bring nothing consistent, read nothing, produce nothing, report nothing, except David.
Mr Mullet are you jalous?
What a credibility.
Pete you should observe more than you do and analyse with regards to the observations, if you see something. Not learn in books (that is to be done) but not to make entering your theories in your mould. For the other "just to brake the duck legs", that is done but they don't know themselves. Already done.
Stanislas-Jean


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: Asbytec]
      #5511000 - 11/09/12 03:29 AM

Quote:

Pete, what size scope is required to "see" canals on Mars? I have never perceived them. I really did want to see detail on Uranus, and it did seem to boil a little in pretty good seeing giving the impression there were albedo changes on the disc. But, they were in no particular or persistent pattern that one could call a feature. IME, anyway. Limb darkening was pretty obvious.





Norme,

I know you didn't ask me, but...
I've seen some of the Martian canals very plainly in an 8" reflector, during close oppositions. When they're there, they're not hard to see; many people here have seen them. (I'm talking the broad streaky canals, not the fine spider-web ones; but credible people, [e.g. Robert Richardson, staff astronomer at Mt. Wilson in the 50's], have seen the fine ones in a 6". And he was an "unbeliever" up to that point!)
I've never seen anything close to a detail on Uranus, though.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5511038 - 11/09/12 04:41 AM

Rick, thanks. Interesting. I haven't seen them, not yet.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rich (RLTYS)Moderator
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/04

Loc: New York (Long Island)
Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: telescopemullet]
      #5511081 - 11/09/12 06:52 AM

Quote:

Since 2009, Stan the Uranus Man has posted his drawings here: http://alpo-j.asahikawa-med.ac.jp/Latest/Uranus.htm.

Every single one of his drawings have these fictitious features. It will be impossible for him to admit that he is drawing fiction given that he has been doing it for quite some time now and he is firmly rooted in his disbelief. He is a paradigm of one, he is entrenched. Truly there has to be more to astronomy that drawing Uranus to fit one's imagination and self inflate one's ego?




Come on folks, lets keep this discussion friendly, insults are not needed and will not be tolerated.

Rich (RLTYS)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
stanislas-jean
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/22/08

Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #5511147 - 11/09/12 07:53 AM

Sorry Pete it's from your mould.
What is done from me is the worst (under bad conditions) and the best (under excellent conditions).
Be honnest with acuracy.
Now it is your mould for which nothing different in terms of approach can enter into.
Reporting canali here is your mark of un experience, subjects being so different.
Stanislas-Jean


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
azure1961p
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: stanislas-jean]
      #5511172 - 11/09/12 08:13 AM

They are identical.

And let me tell you about my "mould". I don't substitute impossible with incredible to end up uncredible. I don't shoot up on prior suggestion overload then have at it. Ifi can't be honest wigh myself and call an observation not happening then I lose any baseline of truth for which to build from. I still want to see enckes and M57s central star in my 8. I may never and banging my head against the wall isn't going to make it any better.

Stan lets look at the established observagion pfofile for what's needed based on your words:

The belts need at least 120mm of clear aperture to be seen well while eight inches is mjnimum if its an obstructed system. BUT if its the 1 meter scope on pic du midi at1000x well sorry aperture and seeing are not ena ling that big wasteful aperture the eay a 12" scope can be utilized.goo yes Hst does show a very pale band with tge same resolution that resolves volcano plumes on Io but hnfortunately not with the efficiency of gour set up since the humsn eye with a 12" cassegrain is surpassing hsts capabilities. Add to this fhe throngs of folks on the japan alpo site who have similar exclusive physics bending capabilities like you and its totally understandable why somone would draw the letter Y across fthe planets face.
Pete

Edited by azure1961p (11/09/12 09:56 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
stanislas-jean
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/22/08

Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5511608 - 11/09/12 01:05 PM

The problem is not what you wrote
neither a magnification problem
nor a diameter question beyond a threeshold diameter.
Think contrast and apparent size of a feature seen at the eyepiece under a light level.
Any diameter or scope design will not show a contrast beyond the contrast object, say 2% on the planet never higher than this at the eyepiece, never. With the 1m I calculated something as 1.7%, not 2 and above 2.
At any magnification.
The only question is to use a scope (even a 200mm) that transfer the highest possible contrast at the eyepiece.
That's it. The transfer between a 200mm and a 1000mm is not 5times but less than 2.
The question now is to catch 1.7% contrast level feature or 0.85% contrast level.
This is possible, I did the own test on a test machine in a Lab.
Now to get accessible this feature the light level has to be adjusted by the magnification. Personnally this is 0.55mm exit pupill diameter at the eyepiece under a transparent sky. Means 360x with a 200mm.
Make the exercise with FTM curves, different quality optics levels, different central obstructions, etc...
120 mm clear perfect aperture is the case of my 200mm newtonian with 28% CO and PTV5 or the mewlon 180 case.
They show the thin lighted equatoriale zone and the dark north hemisphere honestly. The refractor 150mm of PTV7 shows them a little more distinct not by the gain perfect diameter but by the better image stability.
The 200mm newton is an orion and the refractor an istar, the mewlon 180 is well known. The 305mm is PTV5 and 33% CO is doing around a 175mm perfect diameter.
All these assessments you have through the old posts and a publication issue in the Alpo Japanese site.
Thanks to them.
Think contrast level not resolution a 200mm scope is enough.
Are you able to capture 1-2% levels, this the challenge even for the users of the 1000mm.
There only ONE point where I could failed, this is the assessment of the feature contrasts assessment of 1-2% on this planet.
The problem is that nobody knows or get data about this or keep data somwhere. 1-2%? What is your answer on that levels? The duck is broken legs!
Stanislas-Jean


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
azure1961p
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: stanislas-jean]
      #5511688 - 11/09/12 01:37 PM

The duck is broken legs. Yes and so this is your must.

P.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: Asbytec]
      #5511955 - 11/09/12 04:35 PM

Quote:

Rick, thanks. Interesting. I haven't seen them, not yet.




Yeah. And, Richardson's account of seeing them in the 6" (in his "Exploring Mars", 1954) was a postscript to his tale of, on a very good night in 1941, seeing Mars through a 6" refractor, and the 60" and 100" reflectors, with nary a canal to be seen. Then, in 1954, he saw them plainly in the same 6" refractor.
It must have been a much more interesting experience back when it was all still an open question! I wonder what the actual necessary conditions are to see them?

Sorry for the digression; now, back to our program.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
azure1961p
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Uranus cloud bands in a C8 new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5512020 - 11/09/12 05:30 PM

Stan it might not be. Five times but its a whole lot more than the value you give it once you factor in the larger image scale at 1000x and the brightness that accompanies a 1 meter scope. At 1000x the eye works a lot less harder to see the dame contrasts. I'm not even factoring in pic du midi seeing versus your padticular location.

Pete


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | (show all)


Extra information
2 registered and 2 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Rich (RLTYS), star drop 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 16427

Jump to

CN Forums Home




Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics