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Glen A W
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Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: USA
ISON will survive!
      #6221585 - 11/28/13 02:16 PM

They are claiming it's all over the the little comet that could, but I still believe it will make it around. That's my prediction.

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herrointment
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Reged: 03/12/11

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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6221645 - 11/28/13 02:49 PM

Well, you are a braver man than I.

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Glen A W
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: USA
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: herrointment]
      #6221647 - 11/28/13 02:50 PM

I like to side with comets. They are so..... bipolar.....

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Tonk
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Reged: 08/19/04

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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6221657 - 11/28/13 02:56 PM

It may do - as a rubble pile - but with no volatiles left it will be invisible - thats my prediction

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Special Ed
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6221681 - 11/28/13 03:13 PM

Maybe it should have been named ICARUS.

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Dave Mitsky
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Special Ed]
      #6221694 - 11/28/13 03:23 PM

It was just reported that SDO shows no sign of Comet ISON. Sadly, put a fork in it.

Dave Mitsky


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Happy-Idiot
Stuck with it
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Reged: 04/06/06

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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #6221714 - 11/28/13 03:31 PM

It's better to burn out than fade away.

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Tonk
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Happy-Idiot]
      #6221796 - 11/28/13 03:57 PM Attachment (24 downloads)

However something has come through thought its looks very unheathly cometwise.



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boandpokey
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Reged: 07/25/13

Loc: Auburndale, Fl
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6221808 - 11/28/13 04:00 PM

that's a dust pile with no volatility... will fade shortly.. but we are due for a good comet show its been too long

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Tonk
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6221811 - 11/28/13 04:01 PM

Now Lovejoy go its tail ripped off at the same point but once some distance from the sun it regrew the tail .... then totally disrupted a day later.

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Tonk
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6221820 - 11/28/13 04:05 PM Attachment (20 downloads)

And this https://twitter.com/cosmos4u/status/406162303931793408/photo/1/large

and ...



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Glen A W
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: USA
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6222004 - 11/28/13 05:27 PM

That looks like it is more of the rubble. The thinner "tail" going in is almost exactly on the parabolic orbital path and was said to be large dust grains and debris. Perhaps the comet did disrupt. It is remarkable that it is marking its path so well!

Edited by Glen A W (11/28/13 05:27 PM)


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OldDeadOne
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6222023 - 11/28/13 05:34 PM

I guess there is no hope of seeing a Halley's type comet again in my lifetime(I was mesmerized night after night just looking at it),and I was really hoping that ISON would be that comet,I'm totally crushed.

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Glen A W
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: USA
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: OldDeadOne]
      #6222034 - 11/28/13 05:39 PM

Quote:

I guess there is no hope of seeing a Halley's type comet again in my lifetime(I was mesmerized night after night just looking at it),and I was really hoping that ISON would be that comet,I'm totally crushed.




You AND the comet, quite possibly.

It was a great comet for me, on the way down to the horizon this past month. It showed a good, long tail and a green coma. What more could I want? This was the best tail I'd seen since Schwassman-Wachmann 3 B & C in 2006. I did miss McNaught, however. Pannstarrs was pretty good too, though I felt its tail was a bit of a fan.

The NASA coverage was a shame. These people are supposed to be scientists, but they were calling this very early based on nearly no data. The mere lack of visibility in the instrument they were using was not telling of much at all.


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Glen A W
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: USA
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6222047 - 11/28/13 05:45 PM

I still think it is too early to tell. Everyone should look at those pictures. The comet, disrupted or not, is marking its orbital path in a most amazing way.

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brianb11213
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6222073 - 11/28/13 06:00 PM

Quote:

The comet, disrupted or not, is marking its orbital path in a most amazing way.



It's just the dust from the shattered nucleus - there is no drag out there so the particles will tend to follow the original orbital trajectory. In fact there will be some reconcentration as the remnants move away as the leading particles will be slowed by gravity allowing the trailing particles to catch up. The various sizes of dust grain will be "sorted" by radiation pressure & more or less gradually diverge as well as being scattered by the residual motion from the nucleus's rotation. Dispersing and moving away from the sun, the remnants will fade rapidly. If we're very lucky there may be a few chunks large enough to be visible as faint telescopic objects on the way out - probably the second week in December is the best chance to see what is left.

Comet of the century? No ... hype of the century, well one hopes that the "popular" media will learn, but without much expectation.


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Tonk
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: brianb11213]
      #6222082 - 11/28/13 06:04 PM

Quote:

It is remarkable that it is marking its path so well!




At which point Newton gives a wry smile


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Glen A W
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: USA
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6222085 - 11/28/13 06:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

It is remarkable that it is marking its path so well!




At which point Newton gives a wry smile




I thought just the same!


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Alan French
Night Owl
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Reged: 01/28/05

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: brianb11213]
      #6222087 - 11/28/13 06:05 PM

The "Comet of the Century" label should be based only on performance, never on expectations. If it doesn't put on a fine show, clearly visible and easily found by anyone, sporting a long, bright tail, it should not qualify.

Clear skies, Alan


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Tonk
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6222090 - 11/28/13 06:07 PM

Quote:

I guess there is no hope of seeing a Halley's type comet again in my lifetime




Sounds like you missed Ikeya-Zhang and C/2006 P1 McNaught both recent and bright with tails


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Tonk
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6222096 - 11/28/13 06:11 PM

Quote:

well one hopes that the "popular" media will learn




Well its a mistake they like repeating.

When I was at uni in the late 70's anyone really struggling on the course and wanting to transfer was told to take up science journalism - go figure


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Alan French
Night Owl
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Reged: 01/28/05

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6222207 - 11/28/13 07:35 PM

It wasn't just the popular media. Some web sites devoted to space and astronomy were full of hyperbole too.

The popular media often resorts to hyperbole. It attracts readers, which means money, so they are unlikely to learn from this "mistake."

Clear skies, Alan

Edited by Alan French (11/28/13 07:48 PM)


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kevin M13
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Reged: 03/07/09

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Alan French]
      #6222229 - 11/28/13 07:45 PM

Just like the WC naming winer storms.

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LivingNDixie
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: kevin M13]
      #6222323 - 11/28/13 08:44 PM

I think you folks are being pretty hard on the media. I think they were pretty fair, there was a lot of "if this" or "maybe." I would rather the media hype it and get people out there looking up then the opposite.... an impressive object/event that gets totally ignored.

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Dave M
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: LivingNDixie]
      #6222338 - 11/28/13 08:54 PM

Science channel airs a special/program on 12/07 at 10pm EST called Super Comet. Just sayin I Guess now they will have to focus more on its probable demise, unfortunately.

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OldDeadOne
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6222340 - 11/28/13 08:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I guess there is no hope of seeing a Halley's type comet again in my lifetime




Sounds like you missed Ikeya-Zhang and C/2006 P1 McNaught both recent and bright with tails





Both were naked eye and had long tails????


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ur7x
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/08/12

Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6222383 - 11/28/13 09:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I guess there is no hope of seeing a Halley's type comet again in my lifetime




Sounds like you missed Ikeya-Zhang and C/2006 P1 McNaught both recent and bright with tails




And Hale-Bopp too... They aren't that rare, seems that a nice comet comes along every 10 years or so. Though ISON proved to be a huge disappointment... But then so did Halley for anyone north of the equator in 1987


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Alan French
Night Owl
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Reged: 01/28/05

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: LivingNDixie]
      #6222420 - 11/28/13 09:54 PM

Quote:

I think you folks are being pretty hard on the media. I think they were pretty fair, there was a lot of "if this" or "maybe." I would rather the media hype it and get people out there looking up then the opposite.... an impressive object/event that gets totally ignored.




The media deserves some harsh words. Here's an early article.

I've been doing outreach for decades, and I don't think we do the hobby any favors by getting people excited about events that turn out to be duds. Better to be pessimistic and have people pleasantly surprised than to disappoint. With today's Internet, Twitter, and other very immediate ways to communicate, it's easy to get the word out late in the game.

Clear skies, Alan


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ur7x
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/08/12

Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Alan French]
      #6222437 - 11/28/13 10:01 PM

I agree this comet was WAY over hyped by the Media... But then for those of us old enough to remember Comet Kohoutek... This is old hat. Of course my dad did buy me my first telescope in anticipation of Kohoutek... and I bought my first real telescope about 5 years before Halley. I bet a lot of telescope purchases are driven by "disappointing" comets.

I guess the good news is that I no longer will be packing my mount, OTA and imaging gear to Haleakala this Christmas vacation... Just the 15x70 Binoculars.


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Glen A W
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Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: USA
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: ur7x]
      #6222448 - 11/28/13 10:08 PM

It's impossible not to disappoint the public. Even a truly great comet will disappoint them. The Western public has remarkably simplistic and romantic ideas about what to expect. The media outlets feed such ideas regarding all subjects, not just astronomy. It is no surprise that the people get disappointed. These are people who think the sky is up and exists only at night.

For all the talk of Kahoutek being a dud, it sure seems to have generated a great amount of science at the time.


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ur7x
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/08/12

Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6222462 - 11/28/13 10:18 PM

Not to mention all of the fun that end-of-day folks had with it too

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rookie
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Alan French]
      #6222471 - 11/28/13 10:26 PM

I do think we do the hobby favors by getting people excited about astronomy, even if the event turns out to be a surprise. So many people were captivated by this comet, including Nasa and the ESA. SOHO, LASCO, and Messenger were watching too. Our astronomy club is full of retirees and has fewer children. We need to get our kids and youth excited about astronomy, ask questions and learn about science. None of us know the future for ourselves or the outcomes of objects like comets. We are also viewers enabled by the quality of our skies. It's one of life lessons, and it does not have to diminish the journey.

On the other hand, I'm still grumpy about being clouded out for the transit of Venus.


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ilovecomets
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Reged: 09/21/12

Loc: New England
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: rookie]
      #6222473 - 11/28/13 10:30 PM

No matter how this ends, it's been a fun ride the past few months. I personally hope there is something to see in the morning sky next week, but I'm happy just watching the orbiting observatories take their pictures. It goes to show we still don't know how everything works. Today's events are the best thing that could have happened. People will be analyzing this for years.

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Vince Tramazzo
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Reged: 08/21/04

Loc: North of Tucson, AZ.
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6222478 - 11/28/13 10:32 PM Attachment (38 downloads)

Even though Kahoutek was labeled a dud, at least it was somewhat visible to the naked eye. This old photo was taken from Charleston AFB., S.C. ( Right after Sunset ) The Tri-X film was developed and printed In a home darkroom.

Edited by Vince Tramazzo (11/28/13 10:35 PM)


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krp
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Reged: 11/10/10

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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Vince Tramazzo]
      #6222503 - 11/28/13 10:55 PM

4 possible scenarios for ISON

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Starhunter249
sage


Reged: 06/07/10

Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: krp]
      #6222533 - 11/28/13 11:15 PM

My gut tells me ISON not only survived but will be a good little comet to view. I dont think it will be this spectacular comet of the century that has been hyped. It will emerge from the glow of the sun as great sky object for those with telescopes and binoculars. Maybe even a naked eye comet but not a sky dazzler to the non-astronomy folks. Astrophotographers are going to have fun with this little engine that could.

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aa6ww
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/23/11

Loc: Sacramento, Calif.
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Starhunter249]
      #6222805 - 11/29/13 04:24 AM

I really wanted ISON to survive. Ive been following ISON since it was just a tiny dot in my C14. It was very fun to observe and watch every clear weekend that I could get out.
I usually get attached to these comets the more time I spend with them. I loved all the scientific coverage it received also. ISON made all of us comet observers feel very special. Many I worked with would ask me on a daily basis as to how ISON was doing. It also became my favorite wallpaper on my computer, to always find a unique photo of it.
It was exciting, and almost sad to see it dive into the sun. My daughter and wife were also sad to see its last flight as it got eaten up by the sun also.
It was definitely fun, and one we will now be talking about, as another spectacular comet we had fun observing and following!

...Ralph


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Alan French
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Reged: 01/28/05

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6223123 - 11/29/13 10:36 AM

Quote:

It's impossible not to disappoint the public. Even a truly great comet will disappoint them. The Western public has remarkably simplistic and romantic ideas about what to expect. The media outlets feed such ideas regarding all subjects, not just astronomy. It is no surprise that the people get disappointed. These are people who think the sky is up and exists only at night.

For all the talk of Kahoutek being a dud, it sure seems to have generated a great amount of science at the time.




I disagree. Many people enjoy a good comet. We had a huge crowd at our observing site for Hale-Bopp, and they were very excited.

Just this past summer, I bumped into a motel owner who, knowing my interest in astronomy, was fondly recalling a night she and some friends spent watching the Leonids the year they put on such a marvelous show.

There are a lot of folks who are in no sense amateur astronomers, but enjoy the night sky and celestial events. \

Clear skies, Alan

Edited by Alan French (11/29/13 10:41 AM)


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Staredge
member


Reged: 04/05/12

Loc: Germantown, MD
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Alan French]
      #6223165 - 11/29/13 10:59 AM

I'm enjoying watching the scientists scratch their heads. Just when we think we have things figured out.......the heavens throw us a curveball. For us science nerds, this is pretty entertaining.

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Rick Woods
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Reged: 01/27/05

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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: OldDeadOne]
      #6223194 - 11/29/13 11:18 AM

Quote:

I guess there is no hope of seeing a Halley's type comet again in my lifetime(I was mesmerized night after night just looking at it),and I was really hoping that ISON would be that comet,I'm totally crushed.




Sure there is! Didn't you see the back-to-back Hyakutake and Hale-Bopp in '96-97? Both stomped all over the last Halley's Comet appearance. The next big 'un could show up any time.


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LivingNDixie
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Alan French]
      #6223351 - 11/29/13 12:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I think you folks are being pretty hard on the media. I think they were pretty fair, there was a lot of "if this" or "maybe." I would rather the media hype it and get people out there looking up then the opposite.... an impressive object/event that gets totally ignored.




The media deserves some harsh words. Here's an early article.

I've been doing outreach for decades, and I don't think we do the hobby any favors by getting people excited about events that turn out to be duds. Better to be pessimistic and have people pleasantly surprised than to disappoint. With today's Internet, Twitter, and other very immediate ways to communicate, it's easy to get the word out late in the game.

Clear skies, Alan




Alan,
Yes that article you linked to might be a little bit hyped, but it also states that ISON might be a great comet. I think claiming ISON would be bright is a fair description, it was bright coming in especially in the last few weeks. No it wasn't naked eye, but I found it with my 10X50s and was impressed. I think what makes ISON amazing is the science of the object and lets also admit the nail baiting that has been done over the last 24 hours of it being declared dead and now maybe still alive. That makes for a good story.

If you can see a comet in 10X50s it is pretty bright.


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Glen A W
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: USA
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6223394 - 11/29/13 01:18 PM

I will gloat because I was right. And, I was using my brain, what little there is of it, rather than just guessing.

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Glen A W
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: USA
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6223418 - 11/29/13 01:33 PM

The fundamental mistake that was made by the astronomers on the NASA presentation was that they had faith in an instrument that was not appropriate to the observation they were trying to make. In addition, Phil Plait misinterpreted the comet's Ikeya-Seki-like shape going in as indicating the lack of a nuclear condensation, as though the comet had simply gone to bits, which was obviously incorrect for anyone who has studied Sun-grazing comets and is familiar with how they generally look. But, hey, it was "cool."

As time goes on, I find that I have more respect, in general, for our own advanced amateurs, people like DL, JB, TL, etc., than I do for many so-called professionals. It is getting to the point where I do not believe some of these PhDs know which way is up or could operate a telescope on their own. And our popularisers have fallen greatly in quality and act in the way necessary to achieve some measure of fame, which is sad.

Edited by Glen A W (11/29/13 01:38 PM)


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JustaBoy
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6223539 - 11/29/13 02:27 PM

- Way to go Glen!

Keep the Faith!

-Chuck


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jwaldo
Smart Mime
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Reged: 04/26/04

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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: JustaBoy]
      #6223563 - 11/29/13 02:44 PM

To heck with ISON, I'm not sure I'm going to survive all this back and forth! Such an emotional roller coaster...

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Rick Woods
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6223582 - 11/29/13 02:52 PM

Quote:

I will gloat because I was right. And, I was using my brain, what little there is of it, rather than just guessing.




Brain and brain! - What is brain??


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star dropModerator
contra contrail
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Reged: 02/02/08

Loc: Snow Plop, WNY
Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: jwaldo]
      #6223587 - 11/29/13 02:54 PM

Just a reminder.
From the Cloudy Nights' terms of service:

Posting of NASA/NOAA images and the images of other government agencies is permitted in context provided the following conditions are met: 1) The respective agency permits that sort of use for the photo, 2) the photo is clearly labeled/credited, and 3) a link is provided to the site from which the photo was obtained.

With all of the excitement going on now I will merely state that the images of ISON and the occulted sun in this thread were from NASA and the SOHO observatory. Since the NASA site won't respond for me I cannot provide a link.


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Dave Mitsky
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Reged: 04/08/02

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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: star drop]
      #6224398 - 11/29/13 11:28 PM

Things do not look very promising.

November 29, 10:30 p.m. EST: A fading ghost. At 19:54 UT Filip Fratev (Bulgarian Acadamy of Sciences) wrote, "ISON [has] started to fade.... [In] the last four hours it faded by more than 2 magnitudes and obviously is less bright... I estimated the comet to be between 2.6 and 3.1 magnitude now."

Four hours later Karl Battams of the Comet ISON Observing Campaign tweeted, "We can't tell if #ISON is in one piece or many. It's about mag 5 now and fading."


http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/home/Comet-ISON-Updates-193909261.html

That's much fainter than the revised IAU magnitude figure for today's UT date.

http://scully.cfa.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/returnprepeph.cgi?d=c&o=CK12S010

Dave Mitsky


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Dave Mitsky
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #6224400 - 11/29/13 11:30 PM

Quote:

If you can see a comet in 10X50s it is pretty bright.




For an amateur astronomer, yes. For the general public, decidely no.

Dave Mitsky


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aa6ww
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #6224414 - 11/29/13 11:47 PM

Things do not look very promising? Your killing me with this message!!

That's insane, that sounds incredible!!


... Ralph

Out with my C14 and 7" refractor right now at 7000ft with a group of astronomers in the dark blue color zone, so I'm trying to not let them see me getting these updates!! But thanks!!



Quote:

Things do not look very promising.

November 29, 10:30 p.m. EST: A fading ghost. At 19:54 UT Filip Fratev (Bulgarian Acadamy of Sciences) wrote, "ISON [has] started to fade.... [In] the last four hours it faded by more than 2 magnitudes and obviously is less bright... I estimated the comet to be between 2.6 and 3.1 magnitude now."

Four hours later Karl Battams of the Comet ISON Observing Campaign tweeted, "We can't tell if #ISON is in one piece or many. It's about mag 5 now and fading."


http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/home/Comet-ISON-Updates-193909261.html

That's much fainter than the revised IAU figure for today's UT date.

http://scully.cfa.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/returnprepeph.cgi?d=c&o=CK12S010

Dave Mitsky




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Dave Mitsky
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: aa6ww]
      #6224500 - 11/30/13 01:30 AM

Will it be naked eye visible? When? How bright?
This is definitely the toughest question but also the most frequent. We still don't know if it will be naked eye but based on its current brightness in the LASCO images - which is around magnitude +5 and fading - it does seem unlikely that there will be much to see in the night sky. I suspect that some of the outstanding astrophotographers around the world will be able to get something, but I doubt it will be as spectacular as before perihelion. I hope I'm wrong though.


http://www.isoncampaign.org/karl/a-trail-of-questions

Dave Mitsky


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Nick Anderson
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #6224531 - 11/30/13 02:18 AM

I am very much enjoying the animated STEREO gifs from that site!!

-Nick Anderson


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Rich (RLTYS)Moderator
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Nick Anderson]
      #6224688 - 11/30/13 07:50 AM

With all the ups and downs as to weither ISON will survive all I can say is "Lets just wait and see."

Rich (RLTYS)


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Glen A W
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #6224712 - 11/30/13 08:17 AM

Don't fret. Lovejoy is a wonderful comet, and the Big Dipper's handle is pointing right at it. It is a naked eye object and has a nice tail.

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pstarr
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6224917 - 11/30/13 10:40 AM

As Mr. Miyagi once said. "Ice-on Ice-off".

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Mr Magoo
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6226245 - 12/01/13 12:58 AM

He's dead Jim.

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Deep13
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Mr Magoo]
      #6226299 - 12/01/13 01:49 AM

The only naked eye comet I've ever seen was Hale-Bopp. I lived in Toledo, OH then and found a very dark site just over the MI line to observe and photograph it.

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Tonk
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Deep13]
      #6226497 - 12/01/13 08:01 AM

ISON was obviously an extra in the Bond film "You only live twice"

I also think David Levy wasn't quite right that "Comets are like cats ..." - he missed the fact that cats have nine lives but comets have one and only occasionally have two with the second "life" being rather brief (e.g. this one and C/2011 W3 ...)


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BarrySimon615
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6226820 - 12/01/13 11:36 AM

.....and another one bites the dust!

If Sol was a thinking entity he might have thought "how long can you stand the heat?"

Time to revisit the song (with lyrics) courtesy of "Queen" and YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWsJcg-g1pg

Barry Simon


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Tonk
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: BarrySimon615]
      #6226864 - 12/01/13 11:53 AM

Quote:

Time to revisit the song (with lyrics) courtesy of "Queen" and YouTube.




Fitting I suppose ... what with the guitarist having an Astrophysics PhD and a habit for creating 3D comet images

http://www.brianmay.com/brian/brianssb/brianssboct13a.html#16


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Kon Dealer
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Re: ISON will survive! *DELETED* new [Re: Tonk]
      #6227052 - 12/01/13 01:16 PM

Post deleted by RLTYS

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Old Dinosaur
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Kon Dealer]
      #6227181 - 12/01/13 02:07 PM

The latest great conspiracy explaining the behavior of comets.

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Joe F Gafford
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Old Dinosaur]
      #6227486 - 12/01/13 04:56 PM

Del Sol had that turkey on Thanksgiving and we are stuck with the leftovers!

Joe


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PatHolland
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Re: ISON will survive! *DELETED* new [Re: Kon Dealer]
      #6227570 - 12/01/13 05:40 PM

Post deleted by RLTYS

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MikeBOKC
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: PatHolland]
      #6227714 - 12/01/13 06:47 PM

One airhead CNN anchordolly actually asked on the air if the close passage of an asteroid was related to global warming.

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brianb11213
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: MikeBOKC]
      #6227762 - 12/01/13 07:20 PM

Quote:

One airhead CNN anchordolly actually asked on the air if the close passage of an asteroid was related to global warming.




Perhaps what we need to do to counter global warming is to arrange for a decent sized asteroid (~5 km diameter would do nicely) to pass a little too close & cause an "impact winter".


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Rick Woods
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: MikeBOKC]
      #6227834 - 12/01/13 07:56 PM

Quote:

One airhead CNN anchordolly actually asked on the air if the close passage of an asteroid was related to global warming.




Well, the answer is yes. Everything is related to everything else. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and stars; you have a right to exist. Everybody is a part of everything anyway; you can have everything if you let yourself be. Roll another one, just like the other one.

Ommmm.


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Rich (RLTYS)Moderator
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #6228451 - 12/02/13 06:29 AM

Folks, please stay on subject or this thread will be locked.

Rich (RLTYS)


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ohioalfa64
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #6229020 - 12/02/13 12:25 PM

When is ISON scheduled to reappear to us North of 40 deg observers?

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brianb11213
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: ohioalfa64]
      #6229098 - 12/02/13 01:10 PM

Quote:

When is ISON scheduled to reappear to us North of 40 deg observers?



It's dead, Jim.

And it won't.

Spaceweather is giving the integrated magnitude as around mag. 8 today (Dec 2) & as this is spread out over a considerable area of sky it would be very hard to detect even in a pitch black sky. The debris cloud will only disperse & fade even more as it moves away from the sun.


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Tonk
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: ohioalfa64]
      #6229099 - 12/02/13 01:11 PM

Quote:

When is ISON scheduled to reappear to us North of 40 deg observers?




Today its a 8th magnitude dust cloud and dimming further day by day as the dust cloud expands. So no - its not going to reappear now.


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Old Dinosaur
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: ohioalfa64]
      #6229101 - 12/02/13 01:11 PM

It ain't. What's left may be able to be captured photographically, that's about it.

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Wisers
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6230477 - 12/02/13 10:40 PM

I wonder what it would have been like to ride that sucker through? I would have had to hide on the back side.
Rick


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Relativist
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Wisers]
      #6231379 - 12/03/13 12:53 PM

I wonder if it will be within reach of video?

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Tonk
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Relativist]
      #6231413 - 12/03/13 01:12 PM

Quote:

I wonder if it will be within reach of video?




A good model for this was comet Elenin a couple of years back. It disintegrated on the way in but the dust cloud could be followed for about 3 weeks after this. To do it photgraphers needed fast widefield optics (180mm F/2.8) and long (8 to 15 minutes) exposures sited on the top of a volcano in Japan or Hawaii (Hiro here on CN did this)

See http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=DSLR&N...

And here is more of what to expect

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=DSLR&N...

The Russians really have been out of luck comet wise - both Elenin and ISON disintegrated after both where heavily touted as likely spectaculars


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hiro
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6233737 - 12/04/13 04:59 PM

Thanks Tonk for the introduction of my works on the comet C/2010 X1 Elenin in October - November 2010. I failed at the first several trials, but I could enjoy the object much.

I have enjoyed C/2012 S1 ISON as you know. We hoped the comet a little too much. We knew that the light curve was lower than expected in January and that the comet was within Bortle's limit. It was nice that those curves or limits are worth consideration. I respect researchers of astronomy of the field.

It was really a nice comet, but we have not seen the end mark yet.

Those in this forum may be candidates of observer of such ridiculous objects. I will enjoy imaging of the remnant of C/2012 S1 several times, maybe on Sunday mornings. It may be challenging, but it must be worth the effort. Something must be drifting on or around the orbit, and we may be able to be rare witness. I hope to watch the shape on a frame.


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krp
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: hiro]
      #6234351 - 12/04/13 10:15 PM

Quote:

Thanks Tonk for the introduction of my works on the comet C/2010 X1 Elenin in October - November 2010. I failed at the first several trials, but I could enjoy the object much.

I have enjoyed C/2012 S1 ISON as you know. We hoped the comet a little too much. We knew that the light curve was lower than expected in January and that the comet was within Bortle's limit. It was nice that those curves or limits are worth consideration. I respect researchers of astronomy of the field.

It was really a nice comet, but we have not seen the end mark yet.

Those in this forum may be candidates of observer of such ridiculous objects. I will enjoy imaging of the remnant of C/2012 S1 several times, maybe on Sunday mornings. It may be challenging, but it must be worth the effort. Something must be drifting on or around the orbit, and we may be able to be rare witness. I hope to watch the shape on a frame.



I look forward to seeing what you capture.


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hiro
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Reged: 07/17/07

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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: krp]
      #6234442 - 12/04/13 11:33 PM

Thanks Kevin,

I hope that I can watch something, but I will present results here, even if the results were negative for the remnant.


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kywildcats
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: hiro]
      #6234500 - 12/05/13 12:14 AM

Since ISON is no more....I wonder if the Science Channel is still planning on showing the program about ISON. Everyone will be running outside to look for it and will be very disappointed.

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Rich (RLTYS)Moderator
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: kywildcats]
      #6234708 - 12/05/13 06:16 AM

It's still being advertised.

Rich (RLTYS)


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krp
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #6236454 - 12/06/13 12:19 AM

ISON is now back in the field of view of Stereo H1-A



Source

I hope the remnants will hold together a little longer so at least something can be seen from earth. I also found another image that shows ISON better but I'm not sure of the source so I won't post it.


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BrooksObs
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #6237056 - 12/06/13 10:48 AM

Yes, it is a bit perplexing to understand just how the Science Channel can present its SuperCometISON 2013 special this evening, considering virtually nothing remains of the comet beyond a rapidly dispersing large cloud of debris.

While a trace of ISON continues was imaged by one of the STEREO cameras as late as this early morning, the brightest portion of the remnant cloud appears to have a surface bright of less than that of the Merope Nebula in the Pleiades.

In 5 or 6 days, when this remnant debris cloud has reached sufficient solar elongation and is reasonably up in the Earth's eastern morning sky to be imaged, I would anticipate that only the deepest images might be capable of detecting any trace of it at all...if such even exist by then!

BrooksObs

Edited by BrooksObs (12/06/13 11:03 AM)


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Mirzam
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: BrooksObs]
      #6238069 - 12/06/13 08:19 PM

Very cool ISON video now up on Spaceweather.com

ISON video

JimC


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Starhunter249
sage


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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Mirzam]
      #6239100 - 12/07/13 01:34 PM

Awesome video. Maybe not comet of the century but for folks with telescopes, perhaps something can be viewed this month as it gets positioned further from the sun.

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Dave Mitsky
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: BrooksObs]
      #6239355 - 12/07/13 03:58 PM

The Science Channel is now airing a slightly different promo for the show that seems to indicate Comet ISON's probable demise. They haven't changed the title to Not-So-Super Comet ISON 2013, however.

Dave Mitsky


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hiro
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: krp]
      #6240082 - 12/08/13 12:03 AM

I tried imaging of the object and found nothing on the frame, though the equatorial mount was following the ephemeris. The altitude of the object was 3.94 degrees at the beginning of twilight.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hiroc/11263328836/

It may have been difficult to detect faint and diffuse object with low surface brightness under the poor observing condition. I will try again.


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Glen A W
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: hiro]
      #6240789 - 12/08/13 01:08 PM

People can say what they want - it was a great comet for me. It looked great on the way down, and the show on Thanksgiving was worth the wait.

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LivingNDixie
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6241024 - 12/08/13 03:27 PM

I watched the Discovery Channel special on ISON. I DVR'd it Friday, it was a very good series, talked a lot about how scientists tracked the comet and showed that many times science doesn't go the way one hopes. The Discovery Channel is going to reshow it really early in the morning on Sunday, so set you DVR.

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Dave Mitsky
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6247936 - 12/11/13 09:48 PM

There's no sign of Comet ISON in the image posted at http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=91066

For more, see http://spaceweather.com/ (Monday-Wednesday).

Dave Mitsky


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krp
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #6248900 - 12/12/13 11:57 AM

Isn't it surprising that none of the remains have been detected from earth at this point? It was still visible in stereo a few days ago. I have heard Hubble will attempt to capture it sometime in the next week.

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Tonk
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: krp]
      #6249045 - 12/12/13 01:12 PM

Quote:

Isn't it surprising that none of the remains have been detected from earth at this point?




STEREO has the supreme advantage of have no atmosphere to squint through and an excellent elongation from the sun

Plus what STEREO was imaging is extremely dim - dimmer than the nebulosity in the Pleiades


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hiro
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6250164 - 12/13/13 12:37 AM

We could recognize Pleiades and surrounding dust and gas on the frame with STEREO, but we can image far dimmer objects than it, when it is away from the sun.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hiroc/5225950849/

I believe that there is some chance of imaging the remnant, when it is far away from the sun, though integrated flux nebulae in the field must be obstruction. We may need subtraction or comparison of several images. The object must be getting dimmer day by day, and the condition of imaging is getting better. We must haste and utilize the possibility the most.

We will pass the orbit plane of the comet around January 16, 2014. The object comes near Polaris, far away from the sun at the date. We may have some better chance of imaging around the date, though the moon will be another obstruction then. We must have chance ahead.

Edited by hiro (12/13/13 12:40 AM)


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Tonk
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: hiro]
      #6250312 - 12/13/13 05:43 AM

Hiro - I'm expecting that you will succeed going on your past achievements

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BrooksObs
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Reged: 12/08/12

Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: Tonk]
      #6250747 - 12/13/13 11:26 AM

A very interesting situation occurs next month, one perfectly suited to Hiro's ability and equipment. Between the mornings of January 10th and 14th (the absolutely last moonless morning in mid January) the Earth will be very near, or crossing, ISON's orbital plane. Any trace remnants of the comet's dispersing dust cloud and tails will be presented to us almost perfectly edge-on and their brightness greatly compounded. This was exactly what occurrred in the case of recent Comet PanSTARRS about 6-8 weeks past its perihelion passage. Recall the extraordinary anolamous (sunward) tail that appeared briefly? "Something" like that might appear on deep images in conjunction with ISON's dust, even though the comet itself no longer exists!

BrooksObs

Edited by BrooksObs (12/13/13 11:27 AM)


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canukLX90
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Re: ISON will survive! new [Re: BrooksObs]
      #6250896 - 12/13/13 01:06 PM

Thanks for the info. Hopefully there will be some clear
skies for those days. Time to tune up the optics so that
every photon can be collected of this vanishing visitor to
our solar neighborhood.

PJ


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