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General Astronomy >> Light Pollution

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Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

CN-- Lighting Code Presentation
#2076018 - 12/26/07 09:00 PM

I have completed the first draft of the lighting code presentation. A link to the presentation is listed below.

As we discussed before---- I would like CN members to review this document and post their revision suggestions-- pictures, and other comments. Once I have a completed presentation I will upload it to the CN moderators so that other members can use it.

So ----- here is the first draft for YOUR review, comments, and assistance.

I also have a "model" lighting code as a separate document to give to the council members.

www.wingsoverusa.com/CN_light_code.doc

Thanks---- Joe

Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/26/07 09:25 PM)

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2076073 - 12/26/07 09:34 PM

And here is the "Model" Lighting Code:
www.wingsoverusa.com/lighting_code_model.txt

Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/26/07 09:35 PM)

Post Extras:

Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack

Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: Tombstone Arizona

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2076091 - 12/26/07 09:43 PM

PM'd you.

Post Extras:

Jeff in Austin
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 02/26/07

Loc: TEXAS

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Tombstone Sky]
#2076108 - 12/26/07 09:54 PM

Hey Joe - Well done! The dollars and cents combined with the excellent visual examples will make a strong impact.

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Jeff in Austin]
#2076122 - 12/26/07 10:02 PM

Jeff--- had some suggestions to include CO2 reduction in the presentation...... I just don't know how that would be received in conservative Rockwall, Texas??? any ideas on this??
Joe

Post Extras:

mazzefr
I'll take door number three...

Reged: 02/12/07

Loc: Cloudsylvania

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2076361 - 12/27/07 01:01 AM

Nice job! Good luck!

IMHO, I would leave out the CO2 stuff and stick to the tangible and fiscal benefits.

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: mazzefr]
#2076840 - 12/27/07 10:32 AM

mazzefr------ thank you; yes I will not discuss CO2.

Joe

Post Extras:

Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack

Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: Tombstone Arizona

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2077430 - 12/27/07 03:40 PM

For those of you who can still find this thread, I downloaded and read Joe's document last night. I decided to help out with an Excel spreadsheet and as with many things, I got carried away.

Anyway, I created an XLS with three charts. All of them have 'before' and 'after' costs/expenses with your data values. You can read about and download the spreadsheet here.

Suggestions and feedback are, of course, welcome.

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Tombstone Sky]
#2077472 - 12/27/07 03:57 PM

You found it! Very nice spreadsheets ------ I will include them in my presentation------ thank you!

Appreciate your help,
Joe

Post Extras:

Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack

Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: Tombstone Arizona

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2077478 - 12/27/07 04:01 PM

Quote:

You found it! Very nice spreadsheets ------ I will include them in my presentation------ thank you!

Appreciate your help,
Joe

You're quite welcome, Joe. Glad to contribute. Anyway, it gave me something to do while I wait for my 12".

Post Extras:

Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack

Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: Tombstone Arizona

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Tombstone Sky]
#2077652 - 12/27/07 05:29 PM

Joe - Just updated the xls, fixed an error, extended yrs to 12.

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Tombstone Sky]
#2077689 - 12/27/07 05:44 PM

OK I will download the new one-------
Joe

PS--- think the presentation is very close to completion--- just a little "prettying up"---- and printing. It is three handouts---- and a CD with your spreadsheet-----
1. Presentation
2. "Model" lighting code
3. Your spreadsheet with cost projection what ifs--

Joe

Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/27/07 05:47 PM)

Post Extras:

Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack

Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: Tombstone Arizona

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2077720 - 12/27/07 05:58 PM

You know, I was going to post this in the "Street Lights Legally" forum, but THAT seems to have disappeared. That, and relegating you to Bobo's table, are starting to make me think Cloudy Nights is in favor of light pollution.

Anyway, do some checking on the values. I think I got 'em all ok now. Let us all know how the presentation goes (if you can find your way back here).

Post Extras:

NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster

Reged: 10/05/05

Loc: Rockford Illinois

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Tombstone Sky]
#2077780 - 12/27/07 06:30 PM

Dark sky association has a LOT of useful information.

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: NeoDinian]
#2078071 - 12/27/07 08:47 PM

Neo---- yes they have lots of information- but not ONE canned presentation for a town council or city council.

Therefore----- I made one and if it works I will upload it to CN so other members can use it-------- maybe get the moderators to put a sticky tack on it?
Joe

Post Extras:

Jeff in Austin
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 02/26/07

Loc: TEXAS

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2078230 - 12/27/07 09:52 PM

Quote:

Jeff--- had some suggestions to include CO2 reduction in the presentation...... I just don't know how that would be received in conservative Rockwall, Texas??? any ideas on this??
Joe

Finally found the thread! I agree with you and Franco, leave out the CO2 stuff. Keep the focus on the $ and keep their attention.

Post Extras:

Jeff in Austin
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 02/26/07

Loc: TEXAS

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Tombstone Sky]
#2078238 - 12/27/07 09:57 PM

Quote:

For those of you who can still find this thread, I download and read Joe's document last night. I decided to help out with an Excel spreadsheet and as with many things, I got carried away.

Anyway, I create an XLS with three charts. All of them have 'before' and 'after' costs/expenses with your data values. You can read about and download the spreadsheet here.

Suggestions and feedback are, of course, welcome.

That's a nice spreadsheet. It does a great job of highlighting the accumulated savings over time.

Post Extras:

Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack

Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: Tombstone Arizona

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Jeff in Austin]
#2079030 - 12/28/07 09:43 AM

Joe - when appropriate...

1. Let us know when the presentation's going to be.
2. Consider trying to get this thread moved to (or open a new one in) the "General Observing" forum. That seems to be where most LP stuff is winding up.
3. If you need a website to make your presentation publicly available, I've got space. In any case, I'd like to link to it.

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Tombstone Sky]
#2079877 - 12/28/07 05:58 PM

Thombstone you got it-------- the presentation and the "model" ordinance are already posted on my server----- you are welcome to copy it and use it or link to the documents-------- to your other question----

HELLO GREEN AND RED GUYS CAN THIS THREAD BE MOVED TO "General Observing" section of CN???? I feel like Tom Hanks on Castaway! ------- down here with all the Area 51 and alien abduction postings! Ha.

Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/28/07 06:00 PM)

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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks

Reged: 04/07/05

Loc: Oort Cloud 9

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2080138 - 12/28/07 08:33 PM

Joe,

That presentation document is great.

Well done.

I like the examples of shielded and unshielded fixtures. The photos showing the effects of glare by bright unshielded lamps on streets and intersections is a nice touch. And the photo of the house all lit up by light trespass and having to erect heavy blinds in the house to block it - that perfectly illustrates "light trespass" in a way that non-astronomers can understand. Nice touch.

Unless any other moderators or admins have a problem with it, I am going to pin this to the top of this forum. It deserves to be seen/read/downloaded.

Again, outstanding job to everyone involved here.

Regards and clear dark skies,

MikeG

Post Extras:

b1gred
Enginerd

Reged: 04/01/04

Loc: Castle Rock, CO 6677' MSL

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Glassthrower]
#2080173 - 12/28/07 08:45 PM

Another mod agrees.

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Glassthrower]
#2080291 - 12/28/07 09:55 PM

Mike and Randy----- thanks much for posting this thread--- as I told the moderators when the Presentation is finished I will post up everything for CN member's use ------- in presenting to their own City Councils--- or Town Councils.

I am "prettying" up the Presentation-- and altering a few words in the "model" lighting code.
Joe

Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/28/07 09:57 PM)

Post Extras:

b1gred
Enginerd

Reged: 04/01/04

Loc: Castle Rock, CO 6677' MSL

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2080302 - 12/28/07 10:01 PM

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: b1gred]
#2083304 - 12/30/07 01:01 PM

Here are the KEY LINKS consolidated into one posting--

http://www.wingsoverusa.com/CN_light_code.doc
Presentation

http://www.wingsoverusa.com/lighting_code_model.txt
Model Code

http://www.tombstonesky.com/nightsky/lpcharts/
Excel Spreadsheet- cost savings "what if"

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2085964 - 12/31/07 04:33 PM

Just to keep everyone updated, I received this email from Michael the Planning and Zoning manager of Rockwall, Texas---

Here is Michaels email---

"Joe, as requested I am copying this reply to Mr. Bricker (with your attachments), and would invite him to make any comments to you as he deems necessary. But it sounds like you are taking a good approach by addressing the Council on this at one of their future meetings. When the Council schedules it on their agenda, staff will have had an opportunity to review your recommendations and should be prepared to discuss how they compare with our current lighting regulations. "

Thanks for taking an interest and for providing several ideas on the issue.

Have a happy new year!

Michael Hampton, AICP

Planning & Zoning Manager

City of Rockwall

Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/31/07 06:22 PM)

Post Extras:

Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack

Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: Tombstone Arizona

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2086001 - 12/31/07 04:58 PM

Jeez Joe, edit and erase that phone number!!!

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Tombstone Sky]
#2086176 - 12/31/07 06:20 PM

No---- its a public office number and its already on the internet, Rockwall government web site. But I will take it off anyway--- thanks for the heads-up. By the way I did a few small changes on the "model" code.

Ha.

Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/31/07 06:23 PM)

Post Extras:

Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack

Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: Tombstone Arizona

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2086204 - 12/31/07 06:33 PM

The newer versions of the spreadsheet locked non-input cells, but I have no problem with supplying an unlocked version. If you can modify it to suit your particular needs, by all means, go at it!

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Tombstone Sky]
#2086225 - 12/31/07 06:43 PM

Thombstone--- would you be so kind as to post up an unlocked version ---- as I am going to give them your spreadsheet on a CD along with the Presentation and all documents. I will warn them about the formula cells being unlocked.
Appreciate you-- and your help with this.

Joe

Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/31/07 06:45 PM)

Post Extras:

Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack

Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: Tombstone Arizona

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2086273 - 12/31/07 07:10 PM

Quote:

Thombstone--- would you be so kind as to post up an unlocked version ---- as I am going to give them your spreadsheet on a CD along with the Presentation and all documents. I will warn them about the formula cells being unlocked.
Appreciate you-- and your help with this.
Joe

Go back to the web page and find the single-file download for 'unlocked.xls'.

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Tombstone Sky]
#2086284 - 12/31/07 07:16 PM

OK---- I will get it.
Joe

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FirstSight
Postmaster

Reged: 12/26/05

Loc: Raleigh, NC

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Glassthrower]
#2090335 - 01/02/08 03:56 PM

This is a terrific, persuasive presentation. You didn't use the word "astronomy" once, but you did many, many times graphically point out with photos the safety hazard posed by unshielded streetlights.

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: FirstSight]
#2090579 - 01/02/08 05:27 PM

Thanks for the nice comments------- just so everyone knows--- all the documents and spreadsheets are hereby in the PUBLIC DOMAIN and may be freely copied, used, and or altered as you see fit. Tombstone has also posted a similar disclaimer on his web site for the Excel spreadsheets.

Joe Lalumia
Rockwall, Texas

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Spaced
Post Laureate

Reged: 03/01/05

Loc: Tacoma, Washington, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2131710 - 01/19/08 04:44 PM

Joe & Morg, terrific work. I'm going to adapt them for use in my town, and try to get things moving. Thanks so much!

Post Extras:

wrather1
AstroBear

Reged: 10/25/05

Loc: Dallas, Texas

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Spaced]
#2140165 - 01/23/08 12:33 PM

Thanks, Joe, for all your efforts. Do you happen to know if anyone has made such a presentation to Carrollton and/or Farmers Branch?

Dave W.

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Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: wrather1]
#2142066 - 01/24/08 09:29 AM

I don't believe they have --- Plano has a light code (nearby to you). I have not read Plano's code???

Joe

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galaxyman
Vendor - Have a Stellar Birthday

Reged: 04/04/05

Loc: Limerick, Pa

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2178251 - 02/09/08 12:28 AM

Here is a link to my group's (POLC) outdoor lighting ordinances, that was developed by the highly respected outdoor lighting expert Stan Stubbe.

Also a link to the POLC's Chester county Pa. workshop from last October. Though some good pics, it's much better to see us in action!!!

http://www.polcouncil.org/polc2/ordinanc.htm

http://www.polcouncil.org/download.html

Karl
E.O.H.

Chesmont Astronomical Society - founder
POLC - founder
Telekit (Swayze optics) 22" F/4.5 Dob
Homemade (Parks Optics) 12.5" F/4.8 Dob
TMB 8" F/9 Refractor(The Beast)
Antares 6" F/6.5 Refractor(Mini-Beast)

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: galaxyman]
#2193632 - 02/15/08 12:00 PM

Update!

I received a phone call today from the Mayor of Rockwall, TX. He is interested in the lighting code presentation and has instructed the City Manager to contact Planning and Zoning. He said the Council would be interested in seeing a proposal from the city zoning and engineers on the proposal.

I am supposed to be contacted by them to setup a meeting. The Mayor said he will follow up today and make sure the ball gets rolling. Both Planning and Zoning and engineers have been copied on the Lighting Code Proposal already-- and both have expressed interest BUT need to be directed to investigate by the City Council.

Joe Lalumia

Post Extras:

Pierre13mmEthos
member

Reged: 12/17/07

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2210670 - 02/22/08 10:58 AM

Hi Joe

Superb job !!
I am doing something similar in Quebec and I use an existing by-law that was created in a county that hosts a profesional observatory (Mt-Megantic 60" reflector).
I go around from county to county to show them the existing model and ask them to adopt it

Suggestions for yours:

Change wordings of "No light above horizontal line" to "No light beyond the intended lit area". If your light is shielded, it will be directed downwards on the parking lot you want to light up. This prevents horizontal glare towards houses across the street from the parking lot and no glare means safer driving.

Another suggestion is to ban Mercury lights outright because they are the second most inneficient type of bulb in existence (Second only to the household lightbulb). The Mercury lights blast wavelenghts from UV all the way to IR and they produce less and less light year after year but they consume just as much, rendering them horribly innefficient. The result is people use two, then 3....
They should be replaced by Low pressure sodium lightbulbs that give a yellow glow and nothing in the other wavelenghts. Of course you still put them in full cut-off fixtures.

Promote the environment in your by-law because when using efficient lights with lower wattage, you save your environment by using less fuel, less coal burning to make the electricity and less utility stations to build over time if we conserve energy. (Politicians love to look good on environment issues). They can actually "Beautify" their counties/ villages/ cities by eliminating the Glare of lights. Send the light where it is needed...on the ground usually....not sideways and not skywards.

PS: If any of you readers know of statistics that show crime rates drop during a power failure, please send me the source to pierret@aei.ca I saw this in the Sky & Telescope March issue in the Editor' s comments and despite my writing to the editor, I got no answers and would love something on this to break the old adage of "More light = more security"

Good luck Joe and Congradulations on your EXCELLENT initiative !!!

Sincerely
Pierre Tournay
Montreal

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Pierre13mmEthos]
#2212365 - 02/22/08 10:12 PM

Pierre, thanks for the kind words.

Clear Skies,

Joe

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2224873 - 02/28/08 11:59 AM

Further updates------- I received another email from the Mayor copying me on his communication with Parks Dept. and Planning and Zoning. He requested that they investigate our proposal and report back to the City Council on their findings and recommendations. It's moving ALONG!

Thanks again to CN and the moderators for posting the presentation and for this separate forum on light pollution initiatives.

Joe

Edited by Joe Lalumia (02/28/08 12:20 PM)

Post Extras:

Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack

Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: Tombstone Arizona

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2227696 - 02/29/08 04:51 PM

Joe - I know others have said to pretty much dump the environmental the global warming issues, but I have to disagree. I think these issues are important to politicians. I agree you can't sell light-pollution solutions on environmental alone. Politicians need to see the tax-dollar-flow, and regardless of underlying issues, projects that can be cost-justified are approved a lot more quickly than those that can't.

If you have a cost-justified proposal (and I think you do), you can add environmentals to your proposal without cost-justifying it - it's a free added benefit. Politicians may approve things based on cost-justification, but things like environmental issues affect the vote.

Post Extras:

Macro
super member

Reged: 03/07/08

Loc: Ky

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Glassthrower]
#2253237 - 03/12/08 05:05 PM

You care if I use this to propose to my town

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Macro]
#2256988 - 03/14/08 09:46 AM

Macro----- absolutely!!! you can use anything posted here ... and you may freely COPY IT, and-or ALTER IT,and use it any way you wish! All documents and spreadsheets are in the "Public Domain" ---- and both myself and Morg have given permission within this posting.

Joe Lalumia

Post Extras:

Jeff J
super member

Reged: 12/17/05

Loc: Austin, Tx

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#2924406 - 02/12/09 08:57 PM

Joe - I think this looks good. It might have a more compelling set of arguments if you sprinkled web references throughout the doc, and some web references at the end. The darksky website has some good info.

In particular if there are representative light fixtures then it makes the decision process easier. I saw a lot of good ones on darksky refs

Do you happen to know who or where in Austin something was initiated? I have two glaring streetlights nearby. Now it is worse since our neighbor just had her tree trimmed. Now it blazes into our front bedroom!

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Jeff J]
#2925398 - 02/13/09 11:39 AM

Jeff-- no I don't know about any initiatives in Austin-- however you can write a letter to whoever controls the streetlights-- might be TXU or TxDOT --might be the city??-- and request that they are "trespassing" onto your property and you want them shielded.

The CN lighting presentation is designed to be altered as you see fit-- we placed it in the public domain for anyone to use, copy, or alter anyway they wish.

Your neighbor requires something different-- maybe setup the scope in the front yard and invite everyone on your street to come over-- then mention that your neighbors lights are keeping everyone from seeing the sky-- better if he is standing there looking through your telescope. !

Edited by Joe Lalumia (02/13/09 11:41 AM)

Post Extras:

christurner
sage

Reged: 06/24/08

Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Glassthrower]
#3018376 - 04/01/09 04:08 PM

Hi there. I am trying to locate these documents but the links appear dead. Any idea when I can get this great info???

Post Extras:

christurner
sage

Reged: 06/24/08

Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Glassthrower]
#3018377 - 04/01/09 04:08 PM

Hi there. I am trying to locate these documents but the links appear dead. Any idea when I can get this great info???

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#3018576 - 04/01/09 05:36 PM

Links are down because my provider is DOWN-- calling them now!

EDIT-- server is down-- if you email me at

joelalumia@sbcglobal.net I will email them back to you.

Thanks,
Joe

Edited by Joe Lalumia (04/01/09 05:52 PM)

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#3018720 - 04/01/09 07:01 PM

The server is back UP--- all documents are again available--

Here are the KEY LINKS consolidated into one posting--

http://www.wingsoverusa.com/CN_light_code.doc
Presentation

http://www.wingsoverusa.com/lighting_code_model.txt
Model Code

http://www.tombstonesky.com/nightsky/lpcharts/
Excel Spreadsheet- cost savings "what if"
available on Tombstone Sky web site Downloads

Edited by Joe Lalumia (04/01/09 07:03 PM)

Post Extras:

jeff1100CPC
newbie

Reged: 03/15/09

Loc: S.W Louisnana

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#3077790 - 04/30/09 08:17 PM

Joe My name is Jeff Lamson. I am the head of the Electrical Dept. In a small town in S.W Louisiana. I read you Lighting code presentation, I met with the Mayor and town council in regaurds to our street lighting. I got the go a head to replace our street lightheads with Full cutoff's.
Made the first order today. Just wanted you to know. Jeff

Post Extras:

csa/montana
Den Mama

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: jeff1100CPC]
#3077980 - 04/30/09 09:51 PM

Outstanding! Congratulations to you Jeff, & Joe!

Jeff, Welcome to Cloudy Nights! It's an honor to have you join us on these forums, especially this one!

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Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: csa/montana]
#3078639 - 05/01/09 09:32 AM

Way to go--------- you know my family is from Ticfaw, LA-- just outside of Independence, LA-- HA!

Still have relatives living there.

Joe Lalumia

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KD5NRH
member

Reged: 06/21/09

Loc: Stephenville TX

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#3222960 - 07/17/09 08:29 AM

Quote:

Macro----- absolutely!!! you can use anything posted here ... and you may freely COPY IT, and-or ALTER IT,and use it any way you wish! All documents and spreadsheets are in the "Public Domain" ---- and both myself and Morg have given permission within this posting.

I still stand beside my "What we really need" post, in that, having worked in sales, getting the time to give a presentation like this to anyone in a position to do anything about it (and get them to pay attention) is hard enough when it's something they're already asking for. It's a good presentation, but you need to have them interested enough to not tune it out.
For that, the most attention-grabbing, thought provoking (from the bottom-line standpoint of cost vs return on investment) should be distilled down into a handout no larger than a trifold brochure with a few pretty pictures and a chart or two.
We tried to get one or two of these (different versions, each with a slightly different approach)into each potential client's hands well before the presentation to guide their questions in a useful direction and preempt certain concerns. By letting the brochures "rope them in," so to speak, we had them wanting to hear, and to participate in the presentation to fill out the information they had already received.

Unfortunately, I'm way behind the times on developing these things, but surely someone here took some graphic design and marketing classes, and could base something off of the existing material.

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Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: KD5NRH]
#3371281 - 10/04/09 06:56 PM

The link to the Excel spreadsheets have changed to:

http://www.tombstonesky.com/observe/outreach/lp/street/index.html

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BRisley
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 09/04/06

Loc: SW Florida

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#3384244 - 10/11/09 07:12 PM

Still can't get the excel sheets.
Have an interesting situation here in Lee County, FL.
They have budgeted and turned off some street lights, but the impact was not realized and now there is an outcry to turn them back on. Considering hitting the County Commissioners with some IDA stuff and links, especially as the are going to be working on more long term plans too. Some of them are very environmental minded. I think they need a little info before they turn back on these glare bombs. I know one of the area's they are heavy on getting back on, used to have an observatory off Daniel's in the late 70's/early 80's with 6.5+ skies, now it is in the heart of the light pollution.

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/sep/16/dark-streets-unkempt-roads-may-result-lee-county-b/
http://www.allbusiness.com/government/government-bodies-offices-regional/13152518-1.html

http://www.nbc-2.com/Global/story.asp?S=11269824

Brian

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Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: BRisley]
#3384354 - 10/11/09 08:42 PM

OK- here are several ready made brochures etc etc from IDA that make good hand-outs.

http://www.darksky.org/mc/page.do?sitePageId=90127&orgId=idsa

for Stephenville TX ------ hey don't you folks have an alien buried in the cemetery!

ALSO-- I emailed "Morg" about the broken spreadsheet links.

Edited by Joe Lalumia (10/11/09 08:46 PM)

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Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#3384365 - 10/11/09 08:50 PM

For the time being-- you can download these two files from my server--

www.wingsoverusa.com/lpcharts.doc

www.wingsoverusa.com/lpcharts.xls

Post Extras:

BRisley
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 09/04/06

Loc: SW Florida

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#3384481 - 10/11/09 10:18 PM

Thanks Joe, just the things I was looking for.
Something I can point them to without worrying about email filters!
Brian

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Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: BRisley]
#3422393 - 10/31/09 06:53 PM

Morg has reposted the Excel Spreadsheets here:

http://www.tombstonesky.com/observe/outreach/lp/street/index.html

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Nightwise
journeyman

Reged: 11/30/08

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#3441842 - 11/11/09 11:28 AM

For this longer document, can you include sources for your facts? For example, you toss around 45% and 50% and 75% rather liberally. Also, there are solid studies out there that challenge the "more light is better" notion for crime (the Chicago alleys study comes to mind). If I'm to present this to a serious audience, it needs more credence than being the opinion of Joe.

KD5NRH made an excellent recommendation in this thread of having a summary flyer or handout, either with this presentation or as a stand-alone product.

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csa/montana
Den Mama

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Nightwise]
#3441904 - 11/11/09 11:52 AM

Welcome to CN, especially our forum here!

Quote:

Also, there are solid studies out there that challenge the "more light is better" notion for crime (the Chicago alleys study comes to mind).

We would be more than pleased if you care to post these studies for all to have access to.

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Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: csa/montana]
#3443538 - 11/12/09 09:32 AM

The presentation is posted "in the public domain" so that YOU can download it and alter it as you see fit.

I really don't appreciate your comment "in Joe's Opinion". Morg and myself worked on this because nothing at all was available on the internet that could be used as a starting point for a presentation. SO------- get to work altering it and then repost your "improved" copy here.

PS- we already posted the link to the IDA brochures which you can download and print out -- see the previous link. These are tri-fold brochures on light pollution. Here is the link again:
http://www.darksky.org/mc/page.do?sitePageId=90127&orgId=idsa

Clear Skies!

Edited by Joe Lalumia (11/12/09 09:38 AM)

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Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#3443560 - 11/12/09 09:47 AM

As for some links-

Here are a few easily located in about 30 seconds of work using Google-

http://www.illinoislighting.org/

http://www.selene-ny.org/

http://www.darksky.org/mc/page.do?sitePageId=58880

http://www.starrynightlights.com/lightpollution/News/light_pollution_news.html

http://www.polcouncil.org/

http://articles.directorym.com/Light_Pollution-a941963.html

http://www.maltastro.org/lpag/guidelines.htm

http://www.econpower.com/energy_savings.html

http://www.tovinder.net/lighting/MasterNaturalistsPresentation_LightPollution.ppt

http://www.newtonma.gov/exec/NCR/may2007/lightson.html a good one

http://www.cityofirvine.org/about/econdev/energy_incentives/lighting_basics.asp and another good one

http://home.cogeco.ca/~richardastro2/Sarnia%20Savings.htm and actual savings in costs

Edited by Joe Lalumia (11/12/09 09:54 AM)

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csa/montana
Den Mama

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#3443670 - 11/12/09 10:49 AM

Joe, just to clarify, you were replying to Nightwise, rather than me, wern't you?

Joe, you know we really appreciate the extensive work you (& Morg) did, in order to have something that others could use in a presentation!

Your geneosity in sharing all your work with the CN members has helped many!

Thank you!

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Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: csa/montana]
#3443717 - 11/12/09 11:13 AM

Carol-- not to you. Sorry for that...... and thank you. Hopefully when the IDA and Illuminating Engineers final light pollution CODE is released we can post the link here.

Joe

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csa/montana
Den Mama

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#3443886 - 11/12/09 12:34 PM

Your endless work to better the night skies for all, is greatly appreciated, Joe!

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Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: csa/montana]
#3487508 - 12/06/09 09:58 PM

Here is Morg's Excel spreadsheet link to calculate lighting cost savings:

Just FYI-- he moved them on his web web site.
http://www.tombstonesky.com/observe/outreach/lp/street/

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TheVegasViewer
member

Reged: 12/11/09

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Glassthrower]
#3521596 - 12/25/09 08:33 PM

It's been about two (2) years, since anyone addressed this thread, so I don't know how things have progressed, since then ......

But, independently, I've come up with the idea of using shielded lighting ALONG WITH motion-detectors, so the SHIELDED LIGHTS will only come on when prompted by the motion detector !! Doubly efficient !!

Common sense tells me that these won't work in all applications, but I'm SURE they can be used in MANY applications !! I'm also sure that, as with many things, as we put them to practical use, we will "Fine tune" or "tweak" design so they are even MORE efficient, and have even GREATER application toward being used EVERYWHERE !!

My most prominent idea for use would be as common streetlights. Most streetlights are on one side of the road or another (some are in the middle of the road). The motion-detector on streetlights on EACH side of the road can be aimed UP the road toward approaching cars, so the light would come on BEFORE the car got there, and illuminate vision for the driver !! Of course, after the car moved on, the light would go out. WHAT A SAVINGS IN ELECTRICITY THIS WOULD ACCOMPLISH !!!

Of course, the lights would have to be kept in a "ready" state, to come on quickly, to make this practical (sort of like a pilot light, on a stove).

Any ideas, from anyone ?

Thanks,

The VegasViewer

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Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: TheVegasViewer]
#3522124 - 12/26/09 09:18 AM

Vegas-- the Germans are way ahead of us on your idea- read this:
http://blogs.discovery.com/news_sustainable/2008/12/streetlight.html

I agree motion sensor shielded LED lights would save bunches of money. Probably would not work in central city-- but WOULD WORK in the suburbs and smaller towns.

Clear Skies!

Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/26/09 09:22 AM)

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Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#3522314 - 12/26/09 11:34 AM

I have moved all of the light pollution documents and spreadsheet to ONE server. Please refer to these links to download all LP documents. These are all placed in the public domain by myself, and Morg, and may be copied, distributed, and altered as you may determine; to fit your local situation.

Don't forget that the International Dark Sky Association has other information sheets and hand-outs located on their web site: http://www.darksky.org/mc/page.do?sitePageId=58823

The CN light pollution document links are listed below:

www.wingsoverusa.com/CN_light_code.doc

www.wingsoverusa.com/lighting_code_model.txt

www.wingsoverusa.com/lpcharts.xls

www.wingsoverusa.com/lpcharts.doc
www.wingsoverusa.com/lpcharts.pdf

Please refer to the links above for the original presentation, model code, and Excel Spreadsheets to estimate energy cost savings. The last two links document the Excel Spreadsheets and are in two formats: as a PDF, and as a WORD document.

Also the IDA and the Illuminating Engineers will probably be releasing their LP suggested property CODE this next year(2010). This will give you another resource for local presentations on lighting code revision.

Clear Skies! Joe & Morg

Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/26/09 11:39 AM)

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turbo399
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 12/21/07

Loc: Michigan

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#3610745 - 02/07/10 02:51 PM

Joe
You put together a great presentation and arguement. I have worked in the Sign/Lighting industry for years and have always pushed the benefits of energy savings to offset any fixture cost.
I have a problem with light pollution in my small town in Michigan and would like to be able to use your documentation if that's ok.
Great job!!

Clear Skies
Terry

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Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: turbo399]
#3612341 - 02/08/10 10:11 AM

Guess I need to post this every few months-- the presentation and the Excel spreadsheets are in the public domain. Both myself and Morg have given permission. You may alter the presentation or change anything, and may freely copy and distribute. CHANGE anything to make it fit your local town council, or local situation.

Clear Skies!

Edited by Joe Lalumia (02/08/10 03:38 PM)

Post Extras:

Joe Lalumia
Postmaster

Reged: 01/24/07

Loc: Quinlan, Texas, USA

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#5498275 - 10/31/12 07:02 PM

New LINKS to the light pollution public domain documents. I have moved these to Dropbox-- here are the direct links:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63104445/Light_Code_Presentation.doc

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63104445/lighting_code_model.txt

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63104445/lpcharts.doc

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63104445/lpcharts.xls

Hope this helps you and clear skies to everyone.

Joe Lalumia

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droid
rocketman

Reged: 08/29/04

Loc: Conneaut, Ohio

Re: CN-- Lighting Code Presentation new

[Re: Joe Lalumia]
#5553418 - 12/04/12 06:50 AM

Joe; ty....Ive been searching for a package I could show to my city council. Sadly the rest links througout the rest of this thread are apparently dead.
Accept the last four ,so Im saving them to my puter immediately, lol

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