Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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I have completed the first draft of the lighting code presentation. A link to the presentation is listed below.
As we discussed before---- I would like CN members to review this document and post their revision suggestions-- pictures, and other comments. Once I have a completed presentation I will upload it to the CN moderators so that other members can use it.
So ----- here is the first draft for YOUR review, comments, and assistance.
I also have a "model" lighting code as a separate document to give to the council members.
www.wingsoverusa.com/CN_light_code.doc
Thanks---- Joe 
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/26/07 09:25 PM)
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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And here is the "Model" Lighting Code:
www.wingsoverusa.com/lighting_code_model.txt
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/26/07 09:35 PM)
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Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
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PM'd you.
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MJ "Morg" Staley
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M5 Dark-Site Observatory
Meade 12" f/10 LX90GPS "River"
WO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Meade SP 5000 full set, 24mm Meade 5000 UWA,
BO/TMB Planetary 8, 9mm, Nagler 13mmT6
Meade 505/USB/ASU/SNP6
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Jeff in Austin
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/26/07
Posts: 876
Loc: TEXAS
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Hey Joe - Well done! The dollars and cents combined with the excellent visual examples will make a strong impact.
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There's nothing like having a supportive family, including Second Grader w/ scope, curious toddler, and lovely wife.
Supporter of Austin Clear Sky Clock, Austin CalSky.
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Jeff--- had some suggestions to include CO2 reduction in the presentation...... I just don't know how that would be received in conservative Rockwall, Texas??? any ideas on this??
Joe
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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mazzefr
I'll take door number three...
Reged: 02/12/07
Posts: 1860
Loc: Cloudsylvania
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Nice job! Good luck!
IMHO, I would leave out the CO2 stuff and stick to the tangible and fiscal benefits.
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Franco
Orion XT12i w/ MoonLite
13T6, 9T6, Pan24
Scopos 35mm
Lumicon UHC, Baader M&S
DIY- Denver Chair, Light shields
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
Lehigh Valley, PA
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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mazzefr------ thank you; yes I will not discuss CO2.
Joe
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
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For those of you who can still find this thread, I downloaded and read Joe's document last night. I decided to help out with an Excel spreadsheet and as with many things, I got carried away.
Anyway, I created an XLS with three charts. All of them have 'before' and 'after' costs/expenses with your data values. You can read about and download the spreadsheet here.
Suggestions and feedback are, of course, welcome.
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MJ "Morg" Staley
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M5 Dark-Site Observatory
Meade 12" f/10 LX90GPS "River"
WO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Meade SP 5000 full set, 24mm Meade 5000 UWA,
BO/TMB Planetary 8, 9mm, Nagler 13mmT6
Meade 505/USB/ASU/SNP6
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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You found it! Very nice spreadsheets ------ I will include them in my presentation------ thank you! 
Appreciate your help,
Joe
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
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Quote:
You found it! Very nice spreadsheets ------ I will include them in my presentation------ thank you!
Appreciate your help,
Joe
You're quite welcome, Joe. Glad to contribute. Anyway, it gave me something to do while I wait for my 12".
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MJ "Morg" Staley
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M5 Dark-Site Observatory
Meade 12" f/10 LX90GPS "River"
WO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Meade SP 5000 full set, 24mm Meade 5000 UWA,
BO/TMB Planetary 8, 9mm, Nagler 13mmT6
Meade 505/USB/ASU/SNP6
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Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
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Joe - Just updated the xls, fixed an error, extended yrs to 12.
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MJ "Morg" Staley
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M5 Dark-Site Observatory
Meade 12" f/10 LX90GPS "River"
WO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Meade SP 5000 full set, 24mm Meade 5000 UWA,
BO/TMB Planetary 8, 9mm, Nagler 13mmT6
Meade 505/USB/ASU/SNP6
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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OK I will download the new one-------
Joe
PS--- think the presentation is very close to completion--- just a little "prettying up"---- and printing. It is three handouts---- and a CD with your spreadsheet-----
1. Presentation
2. "Model" lighting code
3. Your spreadsheet with cost projection what ifs--
Joe
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/27/07 05:47 PM)
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Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
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You know, I was going to post this in the "Street Lights Legally" forum, but THAT seems to have disappeared. That, and relegating you to Bobo's table, are starting to make me think Cloudy Nights is in favor of light pollution.
Anyway, do some checking on the values. I think I got 'em all ok now. Let us all know how the presentation goes (if you can find your way back here).
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MJ "Morg" Staley
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M5 Dark-Site Observatory
Meade 12" f/10 LX90GPS "River"
WO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Meade SP 5000 full set, 24mm Meade 5000 UWA,
BO/TMB Planetary 8, 9mm, Nagler 13mmT6
Meade 505/USB/ASU/SNP6
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12951
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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Dark sky association has a LOT of useful information.
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Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
 Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Neo---- yes they have lots of information- but not ONE canned presentation for a town council or city council.
Therefore----- I made one and if it works I will upload it to CN so other members can use it-------- maybe get the moderators to put a sticky tack on it?
Joe
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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Jeff in Austin
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/26/07
Posts: 876
Loc: TEXAS
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Quote:
Jeff--- had some suggestions to include CO2 reduction in the presentation...... I just don't know how that would be received in conservative Rockwall, Texas??? any ideas on this??
Joe
Finally found the thread! I agree with you and Franco, leave out the CO2 stuff. Keep the focus on the $ and keep their attention.
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There's nothing like having a supportive family, including Second Grader w/ scope, curious toddler, and lovely wife.
Supporter of Austin Clear Sky Clock, Austin CalSky.
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Jeff in Austin
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/26/07
Posts: 876
Loc: TEXAS
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Quote:
For those of you who can still find this thread, I download and read Joe's document last night. I decided to help out with an Excel spreadsheet and as with many things, I got carried away.
Anyway, I create an XLS with three charts. All of them have 'before' and 'after' costs/expenses with your data values. You can read about and download the spreadsheet here.
Suggestions and feedback are, of course, welcome.
That's a nice spreadsheet. It does a great job of highlighting the accumulated savings over time.
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There's nothing like having a supportive family, including Second Grader w/ scope, curious toddler, and lovely wife.
Supporter of Austin Clear Sky Clock, Austin CalSky.
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Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
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Joe - when appropriate...
1. Let us know when the presentation's going to be.
2. Consider trying to get this thread moved to (or open a new one in) the "General Observing" forum. That seems to be where most LP stuff is winding up.
3. If you need a website to make your presentation publicly available, I've got space. In any case, I'd like to link to it.
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MJ "Morg" Staley
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M5 Dark-Site Observatory
Meade 12" f/10 LX90GPS "River"
WO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Meade SP 5000 full set, 24mm Meade 5000 UWA,
BO/TMB Planetary 8, 9mm, Nagler 13mmT6
Meade 505/USB/ASU/SNP6
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Thombstone you got it-------- the presentation and the "model" ordinance are already posted on my server----- you are welcome to copy it and use it or link to the documents-------- to your other question----
HELLO GREEN AND RED GUYS CAN THIS THREAD BE MOVED TO "General Observing" section of CN???? I feel like Tom Hanks on Castaway! ------- down here with all the Area 51 and alien abduction postings! Ha. 
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/28/07 06:00 PM)
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 16601
Loc: Kuiper Belt
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Joe,
That presentation document is great.
Well done.
I like the examples of shielded and unshielded fixtures. The photos showing the effects of glare by bright unshielded lamps on streets and intersections is a nice touch. And the photo of the house all lit up by light trespass and having to erect heavy blinds in the house to block it - that perfectly illustrates "light trespass" in a way that non-astronomers can understand. Nice touch.
Unless any other moderators or admins have a problem with it, I am going to pin this to the top of this forum. It deserves to be seen/read/downloaded.
Again, outstanding job to everyone involved here.
Regards and clear dark skies,
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, Tektites, Fossils, Minerals, Crystals, & Trinitite.
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b1gred
Enginerd
Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 16287
Loc: Castle Rock, CO 6677' MSL
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Another mod agrees.
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"Dark Skies & Great Viewing"
RandyR / W0RDR
GPS 9.25 XLT/Sky Align /FeatherTouch
TV85 w/FeatherTouch
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Mike and Randy----- thanks much for posting this thread--- as I told the moderators when the Presentation is finished I will post up everything for CN member's use ------- in presenting to their own City Councils--- or Town Councils.
I am "prettying" up the Presentation-- and altering a few words in the "model" lighting code.
Joe
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/28/07 09:57 PM)
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b1gred
Enginerd
Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 16287
Loc: Castle Rock, CO 6677' MSL
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"Dark Skies & Great Viewing"
RandyR / W0RDR
GPS 9.25 XLT/Sky Align /FeatherTouch
TV85 w/FeatherTouch
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Here are the KEY LINKS consolidated into one posting--
http://www.wingsoverusa.com/CN_light_code.doc
Presentation
http://www.wingsoverusa.com/lighting_code_model.txt
Model Code
http://www.tombstonesky.com/nightsky/lpcharts/
Excel Spreadsheet- cost savings "what if"
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Just to keep everyone updated, I received this email from Michael the Planning and Zoning manager of Rockwall, Texas---
Here is Michaels email---
"Joe, as requested I am copying this reply to Mr. Bricker (with your attachments), and would invite him to make any comments to you as he deems necessary. But it sounds like you are taking a good approach by addressing the Council on this at one of their future meetings. When the Council schedules it on their agenda, staff will have had an opportunity to review your recommendations and should be prepared to discuss how they compare with our current lighting regulations. "
Thanks for taking an interest and for providing several ideas on the issue.
Have a happy new year!
Michael Hampton, AICP
Planning & Zoning Manager
City of Rockwall
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/31/07 06:22 PM)
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Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
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Jeez Joe, edit and erase that phone number!!!
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MJ "Morg" Staley
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M5 Dark-Site Observatory
Meade 12" f/10 LX90GPS "River"
WO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Meade SP 5000 full set, 24mm Meade 5000 UWA,
BO/TMB Planetary 8, 9mm, Nagler 13mmT6
Meade 505/USB/ASU/SNP6
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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No---- its a public office number and its already on the internet, Rockwall government web site. But I will take it off anyway--- thanks for the heads-up. By the way I did a few small changes on the "model" code.
Ha.
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/31/07 06:23 PM)
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Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
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The newer versions of the spreadsheet locked non-input cells, but I have no problem with supplying an unlocked version. If you can modify it to suit your particular needs, by all means, go at it!
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MJ "Morg" Staley
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M5 Dark-Site Observatory
Meade 12" f/10 LX90GPS "River"
WO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Meade SP 5000 full set, 24mm Meade 5000 UWA,
BO/TMB Planetary 8, 9mm, Nagler 13mmT6
Meade 505/USB/ASU/SNP6
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Thombstone--- would you be so kind as to post up an unlocked version ---- as I am going to give them your spreadsheet on a CD along with the Presentation and all documents. I will warn them about the formula cells being unlocked.
Appreciate you-- and your help with this.
Joe
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/31/07 06:45 PM)
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Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
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Quote:
Thombstone--- would you be so kind as to post up an unlocked version ---- as I am going to give them your spreadsheet on a CD along with the Presentation and all documents. I will warn them about the formula cells being unlocked.
Appreciate you-- and your help with this.
Joe
Go back to the web page and find the single-file download for 'unlocked.xls'.
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MJ "Morg" Staley
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M5 Dark-Site Observatory
Meade 12" f/10 LX90GPS "River"
WO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Meade SP 5000 full set, 24mm Meade 5000 UWA,
BO/TMB Planetary 8, 9mm, Nagler 13mmT6
Meade 505/USB/ASU/SNP6
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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OK---- I will get it.
Joe
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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FirstSight
Post Laureate
Reged: 12/26/05
Posts: 4455
Loc: Raleigh, NC
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This is a terrific, persuasive presentation. You didn't use the word "astronomy" once, but you did many, many times graphically point out with photos the safety hazard posed by unshielded streetlights.
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Chris M., aka "First Sight"
Orion XT12i Dob with Moonlite CR-2 focuser
WO Megrez 90 refractor on UniStar Light mount
Nikon 10x50 Binoculars
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Thanks for the nice comments------- just so everyone knows--- all the documents and spreadsheets are hereby in the PUBLIC DOMAIN and may be freely copied, used, and or altered as you see fit. Tombstone has also posted a similar disclaimer on his web site for the Excel spreadsheets.
Joe Lalumia
Rockwall, Texas
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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Spaced
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/01/05
Posts: 2341
Loc: Tacoma, Washington, USA
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Joe & Morg, terrific work. I'm going to adapt them for use in my town, and try to get things moving. Thanks so much!
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Mike
"Once in a while you can be shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right"
- Robt. Hunter
_____________________________
Webster 14.5" f/4.5 "Sugaree"
Megrez II 80 ED Triplet APO "Punk"
Siebert Black Night BVs
8 X 42 Celestron Regals
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wrather1
AstroBear
Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 4158
Loc: Dallas, Texas
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Thanks, Joe, for all your efforts. Do you happen to know if anyone has made such a presentation to Carrollton and/or Farmers Branch?
Dave W.
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"Don't worry about what telescope you own, or its quality. Just get out under the night sky, and enjoy God's wondrous universe." - T. M. Back
Meade RCX400-12 "Ursa Major"
TMB 130SS + EQ6-PRO "Ursus Polaris"
Orion ED80 "Ursa Minor", WO ZS66ED "grab-'n'-go"
EOS 30D (Hutech), ToUcam Pro, Star Shoot Autoguider, Meade DSI
North Texas Clear Sky Chart
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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I don't believe they have --- Plano has a light code (nearby to you). I have not read Plano's code???
Joe
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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galaxyman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/04/05
Posts: 1539
Loc: Limerick, Pa
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Here is a link to my group's (POLC) outdoor lighting ordinances, that was developed by the highly respected outdoor lighting expert Stan Stubbe.
Also a link to the POLC's Chester county Pa. workshop from last October. Though some good pics, it's much better to see us in action!!!
http://www.polcouncil.org/polc2/ordinanc.htm
http://www.polcouncil.org/download.html
Karl
E.O.H.
Chesmont Astronomical Society - founder
POLC - founder
Telekit (Swayze optics) 22" F/4.5 Dob
Homemade (Parks Optics) 12.5" F/4.8 Dob
TMB 8" F/9 Refractor(The Beast)
Antares 6" F/6.5 Refractor(Mini-Beast)
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So many galaxies, so little time!
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Update!
I received a phone call today from the Mayor of Rockwall, TX. He is interested in the lighting code presentation and has instructed the City Manager to contact Planning and Zoning. He said the Council would be interested in seeing a proposal from the city zoning and engineers on the proposal.
I am supposed to be contacted by them to setup a meeting. The Mayor said he will follow up today and make sure the ball gets rolling. Both Planning and Zoning and engineers have been copied on the Lighting Code Proposal already-- and both have expressed interest BUT need to be directed to investigate by the City Council.
Joe Lalumia
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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Pierre13mmEthos
member
Reged: 12/17/07
Posts: 17
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Hi Joe
Superb job !!
I am doing something similar in Quebec and I use an existing by-law that was created in a county that hosts a profesional observatory (Mt-Megantic 60" reflector).
I go around from county to county to show them the existing model and ask them to adopt it
Suggestions for yours:
Change wordings of "No light above horizontal line" to "No light beyond the intended lit area". If your light is shielded, it will be directed downwards on the parking lot you want to light up. This prevents horizontal glare towards houses across the street from the parking lot and no glare means safer driving.
Another suggestion is to ban Mercury lights outright because they are the second most inneficient type of bulb in existence (Second only to the household lightbulb). The Mercury lights blast wavelenghts from UV all the way to IR and they produce less and less light year after year but they consume just as much, rendering them horribly innefficient. The result is people use two, then 3....
They should be replaced by Low pressure sodium lightbulbs that give a yellow glow and nothing in the other wavelenghts. Of course you still put them in full cut-off fixtures.
Promote the environment in your by-law because when using efficient lights with lower wattage, you save your environment by using less fuel, less coal burning to make the electricity and less utility stations to build over time if we conserve energy. (Politicians love to look good on environment issues). They can actually "Beautify" their counties/ villages/ cities by eliminating the Glare of lights. Send the light where it is needed...on the ground usually....not sideways and not skywards.
PS: If any of you readers know of statistics that show crime rates drop during a power failure, please send me the source to pierret@aei.ca I saw this in the Sky & Telescope March issue in the Editor' s comments and despite my writing to the editor, I got no answers and would love something on this to break the old adage of "More light = more security"
Good luck Joe and Congradulations on your EXCELLENT initiative !!!
Sincerely
Pierre Tournay
Montreal
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Pierre, thanks for the kind words.
Clear Skies,
Joe
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Further updates------- I received another email from the Mayor copying me on his communication with Parks Dept. and Planning and Zoning. He requested that they investigate our proposal and report back to the City Council on their findings and recommendations. It's moving ALONG!
Thanks again to CN and the moderators for posting the presentation and for this separate forum on light pollution initiatives.
Joe
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (02/28/08 12:20 PM)
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Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
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Joe - I know others have said to pretty much dump the environmental the global warming issues, but I have to disagree. I think these issues are important to politicians. I agree you can't sell light-pollution solutions on environmental alone. Politicians need to see the tax-dollar-flow, and regardless of underlying issues, projects that can be cost-justified are approved a lot more quickly than those that can't.
If you have a cost-justified proposal (and I think you do), you can add environmentals to your proposal without cost-justifying it - it's a free added benefit. Politicians may approve things based on cost-justification, but things like environmental issues affect the vote.
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MJ "Morg" Staley
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M5 Dark-Site Observatory
Meade 12" f/10 LX90GPS "River"
WO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Meade SP 5000 full set, 24mm Meade 5000 UWA,
BO/TMB Planetary 8, 9mm, Nagler 13mmT6
Meade 505/USB/ASU/SNP6
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Macro
super member
Reged: 03/07/08
Posts: 192
Loc: Ky
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You care if I use this to propose to my town
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Macro----- absolutely!!! you can use anything posted here ... and you may freely COPY IT, and-or ALTER IT,and use it any way you wish! All documents and spreadsheets are in the "Public Domain" ---- and both myself and Morg have given permission within this posting.
Joe Lalumia
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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Jeff J
super member
Reged: 12/17/05
Posts: 187
Loc: Austin, Tx
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Joe - I think this looks good. It might have a more compelling set of arguments if you sprinkled web references throughout the doc, and some web references at the end. The darksky website has some good info.
In particular if there are representative light fixtures then it makes the decision process easier. I saw a lot of good ones on darksky refs
Do you happen to know who or where in Austin something was initiated? I have two glaring streetlights nearby. Now it is worse since our neighbor just had her tree trimmed. Now it blazes into our front bedroom!
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There are many intelligent species in the universe. They are all owned by cats.
Jeff J.
Meade 10" LX200GPS + 2" W.O. dielectric diagonal
9mm, 12mm, 17mm Naglers; 24mm Pan, 8-24mm TV zoom
Austin, TX
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Jeff-- no I don't know about any initiatives in Austin-- however you can write a letter to whoever controls the streetlights-- might be TXU or TxDOT --might be the city??-- and request that they are "trespassing" onto your property and you want them shielded.
The CN lighting presentation is designed to be altered as you see fit-- we placed it in the public domain for anyone to use, copy, or alter anyway they wish.
Your neighbor requires something different-- maybe setup the scope in the front yard and invite everyone on your street to come over-- then mention that your neighbors lights are keeping everyone from seeing the sky-- better if he is standing there looking through your telescope. !
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (02/13/09 11:41 AM)
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christurner
super member
Reged: 06/24/08
Posts: 179
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
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Hi there. I am trying to locate these documents but the links appear dead. Any idea when I can get this great info???
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Chris and Family
Nova Scotia, Canada
Dark Sky Country
www.spatialenergistics.com
Platforms:
Meade LX200 ACF 12"
newstar 5.1" reflector
26mm plossl meade
13mm Ethos
Kendrick Digi10 Dew System
T1i Canon Rebel EOS
Lumicon 2" UHC filter
3 Bay SkyPod
A wife that understands!
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christurner
super member
Reged: 06/24/08
Posts: 179
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
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Hi there. I am trying to locate these documents but the links appear dead. Any idea when I can get this great info???
--------------------
Chris and Family
Nova Scotia, Canada
Dark Sky Country
www.spatialenergistics.com
Platforms:
Meade LX200 ACF 12"
newstar 5.1" reflector
26mm plossl meade
13mm Ethos
Kendrick Digi10 Dew System
T1i Canon Rebel EOS
Lumicon 2" UHC filter
3 Bay SkyPod
A wife that understands!
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Links are down because my provider is DOWN-- calling them now!
EDIT-- server is down-- if you email me at
joelalumia@sbcglobal.net I will email them back to you.
Thanks,
Joe
--------------------
LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (04/01/09 05:52 PM)
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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The server is back UP--- all documents are again available--
Here are the KEY LINKS consolidated into one posting--
http://www.wingsoverusa.com/CN_light_code.doc
Presentation
http://www.wingsoverusa.com/lighting_code_model.txt
Model Code
http://www.tombstonesky.com/nightsky/lpcharts/
Excel Spreadsheet- cost savings "what if"
available on Tombstone Sky web site Downloads
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (04/01/09 07:03 PM)
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jeff1100CPC
newbie
Reged: 03/15/09
Posts: 3
Loc: S.W Louisnana
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Joe My name is Jeff Lamson. I am the head of the Electrical Dept. In a small town in S.W Louisiana. I read you Lighting code presentation, I met with the Mayor and town council in regaurds to our street lighting. I got the go a head to replace our street lightheads with Full cutoff's.
Made the first order today. Just wanted you to know. Jeff 
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Celestron CPC 11 XLT
Starlite Feather touch Micro focuser
JIM 2' Crayford focuser
Telrad finder scope
2" Quartz Dielectric Diagonal WO
2" 50mm OPT
2" 40mm SWAN
2" 33mm SWAN
2" 25mm SWAN
1.25 32mm TV plossl
1.25 20mm SWAN,
1,25 15mm SWAW
1.25/2" 5mm Baader Planelarium Hyperion
Nikon 10X50 bionculars
Celestron Power tank 17
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csa/montana
Den Mother
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 44044
Loc: montana
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Outstanding! Congratulations to you Jeff, & Joe!
Jeff, Welcome to Cloudy Nights! It's an honor to have you join us on these forums, especially this one!
--------------------
Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
Garrett 20x80 TWP setup
DreamCatcher Dobservatory
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Way to go--------- you know my family is from Ticfaw, LA-- just outside of Independence, LA-- HA!
Still have relatives living there.
Joe Lalumia
--------------------
LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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KD5NRH
member
Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 52
Loc: Stephenville TX
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Quote:
Macro----- absolutely!!! you can use anything posted here ... and you may freely COPY IT, and-or ALTER IT,and use it any way you wish! All documents and spreadsheets are in the "Public Domain" ---- and both myself and Morg have given permission within this posting.
I still stand beside my "What we really need" post, in that, having worked in sales, getting the time to give a presentation like this to anyone in a position to do anything about it (and get them to pay attention) is hard enough when it's something they're already asking for. It's a good presentation, but you need to have them interested enough to not tune it out.
For that, the most attention-grabbing, thought provoking (from the bottom-line standpoint of cost vs return on investment) should be distilled down into a handout no larger than a trifold brochure with a few pretty pictures and a chart or two.
We tried to get one or two of these (different versions, each with a slightly different approach)into each potential client's hands well before the presentation to guide their questions in a useful direction and preempt certain concerns. By letting the brochures "rope them in," so to speak, we had them wanting to hear, and to participate in the presentation to fill out the information they had already received.
Unfortunately, I'm way behind the times on developing these things, but surely someone here took some graphic design and marketing classes, and could base something off of the existing material.
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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The link to the Excel spreadsheets have changed to:
http://www.tombstonesky.com/observe/outreach/lp/street/index.html
--------------------
LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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BRisley
sage
Reged: 09/04/06
Posts: 382
Loc: SW Florida
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Still can't get the excel sheets.
Have an interesting situation here in Lee County, FL.
They have budgeted and turned off some street lights, but the impact was not realized and now there is an outcry to turn them back on. Considering hitting the County Commissioners with some IDA stuff and links, especially as the are going to be working on more long term plans too. Some of them are very environmental minded. I think they need a little info before they turn back on these glare bombs. I know one of the area's they are heavy on getting back on, used to have an observatory off Daniel's in the late 70's/early 80's with 6.5+ skies, now it is in the heart of the light pollution.
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/sep/16/dark-streets-unkempt-roads-may-result-lee-county-b/
http://www.allbusiness.com/government/government-bodies-offices-regional/13152518-1.html
http://www.nbc-2.com/Global/story.asp?S=11269824
Brian
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3 C-8's (2 OT 72/80 and SPC-8)
8" f5 Dob
Meade 4450 on EQ-2
Meade 4501 on EQ-2
Tasco 4.5" on EQ-2
Tasco Starguide 60GT
C-90/Cometron Sky Scanner 80 mounted tandem in a C-8 Fork
Cometron CO-62
Meade 11x80 Bino
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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OK- here are several ready made brochures etc etc from IDA that make good hand-outs.
http://www.darksky.org/mc/page.do?sitePageId=90127&orgId=idsa
for Stephenville TX ------ hey don't you folks have an alien buried in the cemetery!
ALSO-- I emailed "Morg" about the broken spreadsheet links.
--------------------
LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (10/11/09 08:46 PM)
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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For the time being-- you can download these two files from my server--
www.wingsoverusa.com/lpcharts.doc
www.wingsoverusa.com/lpcharts.xls
--------------------
LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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BRisley
sage
Reged: 09/04/06
Posts: 382
Loc: SW Florida
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Thanks Joe, just the things I was looking for.
Something I can point them to without worrying about email filters!
Brian
--------------------
3 C-8's (2 OT 72/80 and SPC-8)
8" f5 Dob
Meade 4450 on EQ-2
Meade 4501 on EQ-2
Tasco 4.5" on EQ-2
Tasco Starguide 60GT
C-90/Cometron Sky Scanner 80 mounted tandem in a C-8 Fork
Cometron CO-62
Meade 11x80 Bino
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Morg has reposted the Excel Spreadsheets here:
http://www.tombstonesky.com/observe/outreach/lp/street/index.html
--------------------
LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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Nightwise
newbie
Reged: 11/30/08
Posts: 2
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For this longer document, can you include sources for your facts? For example, you toss around 45% and 50% and 75% rather liberally. Also, there are solid studies out there that challenge the "more light is better" notion for crime (the Chicago alleys study comes to mind). If I'm to present this to a serious audience, it needs more credence than being the opinion of Joe.
KD5NRH made an excellent recommendation in this thread of having a summary flyer or handout, either with this presentation or as a stand-alone product.
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csa/montana
Den Mother
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 44044
Loc: montana
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Welcome to CN, especially our forum here!
Quote:
Also, there are solid studies out there that challenge the "more light is better" notion for crime (the Chicago alleys study comes to mind).
We would be more than pleased if you care to post these studies for all to have access to.
--------------------
Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
Garrett 20x80 TWP setup
DreamCatcher Dobservatory
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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The presentation is posted "in the public domain" so that YOU can download it and alter it as you see fit.
I really don't appreciate your comment "in Joe's Opinion". Morg and myself worked on this because nothing at all was available on the internet that could be used as a starting point for a presentation. SO------- get to work altering it and then repost your "improved" copy here.
PS- we already posted the link to the IDA brochures which you can download and print out -- see the previous link. These are tri-fold brochures on light pollution. Here is the link again:
http://www.darksky.org/mc/page.do?sitePageId=90127&orgId=idsa
Clear Skies!
--------------------
LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (11/12/09 09:38 AM)
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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As for some links-
Here are a few easily located in about 30 seconds of work using Google-
http://www.illinoislighting.org/
http://www.selene-ny.org/
http://www.darksky.org/mc/page.do?sitePageId=58880
http://www.starrynightlights.com/lightpollution/News/light_pollution_news.html
http://www.polcouncil.org/
http://articles.directorym.com/Light_Pollution-a941963.html
http://www.maltastro.org/lpag/guidelines.htm
http://www.econpower.com/energy_savings.html
http://www.tovinder.net/lighting/MasterNaturalistsPresentation_LightPollution.ppt
http://www.newtonma.gov/exec/NCR/may2007/lightson.html a good one
http://www.cityofirvine.org/about/econdev/energy_incentives/lighting_basics.asp and another good one
http://home.cogeco.ca/~richardastro2/Sarnia%20Savings.htm and actual savings in costs
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (11/12/09 09:54 AM)
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csa/montana
Den Mother
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 44044
Loc: montana
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Joe, just to clarify, you were replying to Nightwise, rather than me, wern't you?
Joe, you know we really appreciate the extensive work you (& Morg) did, in order to have something that others could use in a presentation! Your geneosity in sharing all your work with the CN members has helped many!
Thank you!
--------------------
Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
Garrett 20x80 TWP setup
DreamCatcher Dobservatory
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Carol-- not to you. Sorry for that...... and thank you. Hopefully when the IDA and Illuminating Engineers final light pollution CODE is released we can post the link here.
Joe
--------------------
LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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csa/montana
Den Mother
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 44044
Loc: montana
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Your endless work to better the night skies for all, is greatly appreciated, Joe!
--------------------
Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
Garrett 20x80 TWP setup
DreamCatcher Dobservatory
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Here is Morg's Excel spreadsheet link to calculate lighting cost savings:
Just FYI-- he moved them on his web web site.
http://www.tombstonesky.com/observe/outreach/lp/street/
--------------------
LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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TheVegasViewer
member
Reged: 12/11/09
Posts: 23
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It's been about two (2) years, since anyone addressed this thread, so I don't know how things have progressed, since then ......
But, independently, I've come up with the idea of using shielded lighting ALONG WITH motion-detectors, so the SHIELDED LIGHTS will only come on when prompted by the motion detector !! Doubly efficient !!
Common sense tells me that these won't work in all applications, but I'm SURE they can be used in MANY applications !! I'm also sure that, as with many things, as we put them to practical use, we will "Fine tune" or "tweak" design so they are even MORE efficient, and have even GREATER application toward being used EVERYWHERE !!
My most prominent idea for use would be as common streetlights. Most streetlights are on one side of the road or another (some are in the middle of the road). The motion-detector on streetlights on EACH side of the road can be aimed UP the road toward approaching cars, so the light would come on BEFORE the car got there, and illuminate vision for the driver !! Of course, after the car moved on, the light would go out. WHAT A SAVINGS IN ELECTRICITY THIS WOULD ACCOMPLISH !!!
Of course, the lights would have to be kept in a "ready" state, to come on quickly, to make this practical (sort of like a pilot light, on a stove).
Any ideas, from anyone ?
Thanks,
The VegasViewer
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Vegas-- the Germans are way ahead of us on your idea- read this:
http://blogs.discovery.com/news_sustainable/2008/12/streetlight.html
I agree motion sensor shielded LED lights would save bunches of money. Probably would not work in central city-- but WOULD WORK in the suburbs and smaller towns.
Clear Skies!
--------------------
LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/26/09 09:22 AM)
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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I have moved all of the light pollution documents and spreadsheet to ONE server. Please refer to these links to download all LP documents. These are all placed in the public domain by myself, and Morg, and may be copied, distributed, and altered as you may determine; to fit your local situation.
Don't forget that the International Dark Sky Association has other information sheets and hand-outs located on their web site: http://www.darksky.org/mc/page.do?sitePageId=58823
The CN light pollution document links are listed below:
www.wingsoverusa.com/CN_light_code.doc
www.wingsoverusa.com/lighting_code_model.txt
www.wingsoverusa.com/lpcharts.xls
www.wingsoverusa.com/lpcharts.doc
www.wingsoverusa.com/lpcharts.pdf
Please refer to the links above for the original presentation, model code, and Excel Spreadsheets to estimate energy cost savings. The last two links document the Excel Spreadsheets and are in two formats: as a PDF, and as a WORD document.
Also the IDA and the Illuminating Engineers will probably be releasing their LP suggested property CODE this next year(2010). This will give you another resource for local presentations on lighting code revision.
Clear Skies! Joe & Morg
--------------------
LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/26/09 11:39 AM)
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turbo399
sage
Reged: 12/21/07
Posts: 250
Loc: Michigan
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Joe
You put together a great presentation and arguement. I have worked in the Sign/Lighting industry for years and have always pushed the benefits of energy savings to offset any fixture cost.
I have a problem with light pollution in my small town in Michigan and would like to be able to use your documentation if that's ok.
Great job!!
Clear Skies
Terry
--------------------
TMB 130SS F7 Refractor
TMB 80SS F6.3 Refractor
Celestron CGE PRO Mount
Canon 5D Mark II modified
Canon 450D modified
Orion Autoguider
www.flickr.com/photos/terryhancock/
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 4136
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Guess I need to post this every few months-- the presentation and the Excel spreadsheets are in the public domain. Both myself and Morg have given permission. You may alter the presentation or change anything, and may freely copy and distribute. CHANGE anything to make it fit your local town council, or local situation.
Clear Skies!
--------------------
LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, SV 80/9d, 20x80 binoculars www.texasastro.org
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (02/08/10 03:38 PM)
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