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General Astronomy >> Light Pollution

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jshine
member

Reged: 07/26/07

Loc: Rochester, MN, USA

Google Maps meets Light Pollution
#2407141 - 05/19/08 10:17 PM

Last year I wrote a web application that uses the Google Maps API & a map of North American light pollution from the Dark Sky Association to provide a guide to potential dark observing sites in the US. I also incorporated a database where users could mark & annotate their own favorite sites:

http://www.jshine.net/astronomy/dark_sky/

I posted this to another forum on CN at the time, and it's been online for maybe 8-9 months now. Unfortunately, as a graduate student I just don't have the time to devote to maintaining & improving this site. There are some additional useful features that I'd like to implement, but just don't have the time for... I do think it's a potentially useful resource though, and I'd hate to see it languish.

If anyone knows of a person or organization that might be interested in taking over this application, I'd be more than happy to release what I currently have in an open-source format under a public license like the GPL.

Thanks,
Jon

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Tony Flanders
Postmaster

Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: jshine]
#2407630 - 05/20/08 06:17 AM

Quote:

Last year I wrote a web application that uses the Google Maps API & a map of North American light pollution from the Dark Sky Association to provide a guide to potential dark observing sites in the US. I also incorporated a database where users could mark & annotate their own favorite sites:

http://www.jshine.net/astronomy/dark_sky/

I do think it's a potentially useful resource though, and I'd hate to see it languish.

It's an exceedingly useful resource. I have a few questions:

Have you approached Atilla Danko, of the Clear Sky Chart? It seems right up his alley.
Do you plan to keep the site that you currently have? It's great even without improvements.
Do you mind if major websites (e.g. Sky & Telescope, where I work) link to it? Can you handle the increased traffic?

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csa/montana
Den Mama

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: Tony Flanders]
#2407848 - 05/20/08 09:10 AM

Tony, great suggestion for contacting Atilla! This would be a great added feature to the CSC.

Carol

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csa/montana
Den Mama

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: jshine]
#2407853 - 05/20/08 09:12 AM

Jon, we can't thank you enough for all the work you have put into this project, I know someone will carry the "passed torch", so your work will not be in vain!

Carol

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veebs2
special label

Reged: 03/13/07

Loc: DeKalb, IL

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: jshine]
#2408076 - 05/20/08 11:01 AM

Jon,

I just played with your application for a few minutes. Great job! Very easy to use!

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jshine
member

Reged: 07/26/07

Loc: Rochester, MN, USA

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: Tony Flanders]
#2408087 - 05/20/08 11:07 AM

It's hosted professionally, so bandwidth isn't a problem, but my hosting company gives me about 2,048 GB of transfer per month. I'm not sure what kind of traffic an S&T mention would bring, but as long as it's not dramatically larger than that number, I'd welcome the attention.

The code for site itself was designed to scale well (I think I tested it into the tens or hundreds of thousands of marked observing sites), so it's unlikely your readers would overload the SQL database that runs it.

-Jon

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jshine
member

Reged: 07/26/07

Loc: Rochester, MN, USA

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: Tony Flanders]
#2408089 - 05/20/08 11:08 AM

Quote:

[LIST]
Have you approached Atilla Danko, of the Clear Sky Chart? It seems right up his alley.

I'll look into this. I tried approaching the Intl. Dark Sky Association, but that didn't seem like it was going anywhere.

Thanks for the pointer!

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AleX`G
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 05/29/06

Loc: Scotland UK

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: jshine]
#2408211 - 05/20/08 11:59 AM

Very nice I did something like this for the UK last year but it didnt really work out very well. I had problems with overlaying the images so they would be over the correct parts of the country. I thought it may have been a projection issue as I think I was using a satelite image.

Like this
http://www.roe.ac.uk/roe/support/pr/pressreleases/070117-darkskylaunch/darksky01.jpg

Did you encounter simmilar problems with your implementation?

Alex

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jshine
member

Reged: 07/26/07

Loc: Rochester, MN, USA

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: AleX`G]
#2408444 - 05/20/08 01:35 PM

Quote:

Very nice I did something like this for the UK last year but it didnt really work out very well. I had problems with overlaying the images so they would be over the correct parts of the country. I thought it may have been a projection issue as I think I was using a satelite image.

Like this
http://www.roe.ac.uk/roe/support/pr/pressreleases/070117-darkskylaunch/darksky01.jpg

Did you encounter simmilar problems with your implementation?

Alex

I was extremely lucky in the sense that the map I downloaded (from an Italian research team) had the same projection as the map that Google uses. In your case (and bear in mind that I'm not a cartographer either), you could try applying a 2-D transformation matrix:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformation_matrix#Examples_in_2D_graphics

This would be easily accomplished in Matlab (expensive, but commonly found in universities). I'm not sure it would work -- I'd have to read more about the particulars of the projections in question -- but my intuition says it should.

Since the team that I downloaded my image from also has maps for Europe, Asia, S. America, etc., I would like to extend my site's functionality to those areas as well. ...but with all the projects that I have to work on as part of my degree, I don't have time to make those modifications.

-Jon

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Tony Flanders
Postmaster

Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: jshine]
#2408536 - 05/20/08 02:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

[LIST]
Have you approached Atilla Danko, of the Clear Sky Chart? It seems right up his alley.

I'll look into this.

Oh yes. The other obvious organization to approach is Google itself. They have no shortage of programmers!

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jshine
member

Reged: 07/26/07

Loc: Rochester, MN, USA

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: Tony Flanders]
#2408563 - 05/20/08 02:41 PM

Quote:

Oh yes. The other obvious organization to approach is Google itself. They have no shortage of programmers!

I actually did send them a note on their "business proposal" input form. There aren't many channels that we mere peasants can use to reach a programmer on their site, but that seemed like the best choice among the few choices available.

It also seems like it would be right up their alley. Someone at Google must have an Astronomy fetish:

http://www.google.com/mars/
http://www.google.com/moon/

This would be the ideal solution since it is their code I'm using. A thorough treatment by Google would probably make it much faster & more stable -- not to mention the added exposure that the light pollution issue would receive.

It's too bad that the map layer I'm using is a one-off thing. It was obtained for a research paper (http://www.inquinamentoluminoso.it/cinzano/download/0108052.pdf) & is not being updated, but in principle these maps could be updated each year without much trouble. Perhaps if a larger site like Google got involved, that might actually happen.

-Jon

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Tony Flanders
Postmaster

Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: jshine]
#2408727 - 05/20/08 03:53 PM

Quote:

in principle these maps could be updated each year without much trouble

Wow, wouldn't that be cool? They're seriously out of date by now in some fast-growing regions. And I'm pretty sure there are flaws in Cinzano's model and methodology that could be fixed, too.

I've thought of taking that job on myself; all the underlying data is in the public domain. But the task is really pretty overwhelming.

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Sirius76
Vendor-Dark Skies Apparel

Reged: 05/11/07

Loc: Chicago, Il

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: jshine]
#2408767 - 05/20/08 04:13 PM

Jon,

I just have to say that you did a fantastic job! I've been looking for something just like this for quite some time.
Looking for new sites I always go back and forth between Google maps and clearskyclock lightpollution maps. This combines the both!

Again, congratulations on a job well done!

Edited by Sirius76 (05/21/08 04:14 PM)

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jshine
member

Reged: 07/26/07

Loc: Rochester, MN, USA

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: Tony Flanders]
#2409272 - 05/20/08 08:11 PM

Quote:

I've thought of taking that job on myself; all the underlying data is in the public domain. But the task is really pretty overwhelming.

If you do, drop me a line. (So many projects, so little time...)

I was actually under the impression that obtaining the data required to generate this map required a special arrangement with the Defense Meteorological Satellites Program (DMSP). If there was a regularly-updated source of raw data, I would be willing to write some sort of import program to process it into an image or map-layer.

I have to admit that I have a form of programmer's attention deficit disorder: it's much easier for me to attack a new challenge than to maintain & improve a working program... ;-)

-Jon

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Elektronkind
member

Reged: 06/10/07

Loc: Silver Spring, MD

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: jshine]
#2415457 - 05/23/08 04:00 PM

FWIW I run my own co-located server with unlimited transit, even IPv6 connectivity. It backs up nightly to a server on the west coat.

So, if this still needs a home, I'd happily give it a virtual host.

/dale

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jshine
member

Reged: 07/26/07

Loc: Rochester, MN, USA

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: Elektronkind]
#2415956 - 05/23/08 08:22 PM

Quote:

FWIW I run my own co-located server with unlimited transit, even IPv6 connectivity. It backs up nightly to a server on the west coat.

So, if this still needs a home, I'd happily give it a virtual host.

/dale

Thanks, I appreciate the offer. I don't mind hosting it myself -- I've got server space. What I am looking for was someone who liked the idea enough to take it & run with it -- enhance the application, continue adding new featuers & updates as the Google Maps API changes, etc. ...basically, an astronomically-oriented web developer.

As far as giving it bandwidth & a "home on the web" is concerned, I don't mind doing that part. It just lives along side a some of my other pages that are of less general interest, and it generally doesn't consume much bandwidth.

-Jon

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purpleseeker
member

Reged: 03/12/07

Loc: Colorado

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: jshine]
#2468234 - 06/18/08 06:46 PM

WOW! ! !
I'd just like to thank you for the fantastic work.

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TrippinReason
newbie

Reged: 03/11/08

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: purpleseeker]
#2472209 - 06/20/08 01:06 PM

This is great! Giving you some props for a job well done! Do you have a website where we can be kept up to date on other programs you're working on?

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JakeT93
member

Reged: 06/28/08

Loc: Williamstown, NJ

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: jshine]
#2490651 - 06/29/08 09:41 PM

Great! Now I know what Bortle the Poconos are in, a very nice dark yellow, about2 2-3 scales darker then me!

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Tony Flanders
Postmaster

Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: JakeT93]
#2491171 - 06/30/08 06:22 AM

Quote:

Great! Now I know what Bortle the Poconos are in, a very nice dark yellow, about2 2-3 scales darker then me!

Just to clarify -- there is no relationship between the Bortle scale and the colored zones in the World Atlas of Light Pollution. A crude correlation was done once by the North Virginia Astronomy Club, and by typical Web carelessness, this got picked up by two very well-known sites: Wikipedia and the Clear Sky Chart. But the correlation was never intended for this purpose, and is crude at best and (I would argue) pretty seriously wrong in a number of cases.

If you want to use the colored zones -- which I recommend -- it's best to avoid any mention of the Bortle classes.

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o1d_dude
o1der than dirt

Reged: 10/03/07

Loc: The Wolfpack

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: Tony Flanders]
#2491698 - 06/30/08 02:01 PM

Excellent resource, Jon.

Your application confirms my fears. I live in a red zone about 2-3 miles from the white.

*sigh*

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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 07/24/08

Loc: Central New Jersey

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: jshine]
#2561730 - 08/05/08 12:32 PM

UGH!!! i am located in a RED ZONE!!

Central new jersey isn't really great for astronomy. At least I'm not located in a white zone

Also, a dark site with light polluted skies is better than not having a dark site with stray light coming in, with less light pollutants.

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WNCAGC
sage

Reged: 06/25/08

Loc: NC Mountains (God's country)

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: Brooklyn]
#2561817 - 08/05/08 01:10 PM

Near red zone for me but I have places to drive to that are quite dark.

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Octavarium
member

Reged: 08/02/08

Loc: East Haven, CT

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: Tony Flanders]
#2562304 - 08/05/08 05:38 PM

All red with surrounding orange 10+ miles away. Lousy CT!

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IngramDW
newbie

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: jshine]
#2602566 - 08/25/08 12:48 PM

Jshine,
Tell me more about the finder.
What kind of reply have you received from IDA Tucson?
I am affiliated with Dark Skies Northwest @ www.scn.org/darksky
Maybe I can find help here if you are still looking for someone to take over your work.
Dave Ingram 206-372-7292

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NyxAither
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 09/11/07

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: IngramDW]
#2603152 - 08/25/08 05:45 PM

Great program! I live in the middle of a the Washington DC white zone. I have land in Columbia VA which is barely in the blue.

Post Extras:

Startraffic
sage

Reged: 02/12/06

Loc: Lat. 39.143345, Long. -77.1748...

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: NyxAither]
#2710566 - 10/21/08 01:08 PM

Thomas,
I know the feeling. I'm up in Gaithersburg. I took my son out camping over in Haymarket & he asked "What's that white thing up there dad?" I said "That's the Milky Way son. You can't see it at home because of the street lights." He said "Oh, that sucks. It's pretty cool looking."
I found a place out in WV Spruce Knob Nat'l Park that has camping and is DARK. I think he & I will go there so he can really see some stars, get his wilderness camping badge, & Astronomy pin. Typically we only get mag 4-5 on a good moonless night.
Star.

Post Extras:

Ptarmigan
Lagopus lagopus

Reged: 09/23/04

Loc: Arctic

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: o1d_dude]
#2726369 - 10/30/08 12:30 PM

I just accessed the site and I get this message:

Quote:

This Domain (gailknopp.com) Has Been Disabled
For information on restoring your account please call customer service as soon as possible

When/If you call our support help line, please have your site name ready.

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mccambjd
member

Reged: 10/24/08

Loc: Swarthmore, PA

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: Tony Flanders]
#2808441 - 12/16/08 01:59 PM

For more LP info, look at this CN thread in the Beginners Forum

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STiMULi
member

Reged: 11/06/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona, USA

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: jshine]
#2848371 - 01/06/09 10:31 PM

Quote:

Last year I wrote a web application that uses the Google Maps API & a map of North American light pollution from the Dark Sky Association to provide a guide to potential dark observing sites in the US.

Thanks very much for an excellent site!

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Sirquack
sage

Reged: 05/03/08

Loc: Iowa

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: STiMULi]
#3144602 - 06/03/09 10:29 PM

Just came across this thread, great website... I'm right on a pinkish/yellow zone, but within 20 min to green and 30+ to blue...

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Hoondiggi95
member

Reged: 04/22/09

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: Tony Flanders]
#3188953 - 06/29/09 01:57 PM

Cool!!! My neighborhood has the worst possible light pollution!!!

Btw great job on the program!

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MrKrink
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 02/20/09

Loc: Lawndale NC, USA

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: Tony Flanders]
#3416080 - 10/28/09 01:04 PM

That is a really great resource and I like the way it is set up, I would hate to see it gone. You have done a really great job with it.

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greenglass
professor emeritus

Reged: 01/22/06

Loc: Ontario, Canada

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: MrKrink]
#3420249 - 10/30/09 01:50 PM

I'm in the Great White North (Canada), 1 mile from the centre of a white patch, in a white patch and the sky does look yellow-brown in all directions. Ew. When it snows it is quite bright at night. I used to be in a red zone and it was darker towards the south away from white zone.

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nytecam
Postmaster

Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: jshine]
#3423141 - 11/01/09 03:10 AM

Fantastic resource - even from the other side of the pond

Is there a name for the vertical east/west light devide through USA - almost as if two nations

Note also the Alberta oilfield LP in Canada

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veebs2
special label

Reged: 03/13/07

Loc: DeKalb, IL

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: nytecam]
#3438100 - 11/09/09 01:28 PM

You are correct...the vertical line east/west line is very significant. There is no geographical reason for this. I know the Western US has large areas of agricultural land.

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Tony Flanders
Postmaster

Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: veebs2]
#3438345 - 11/09/09 03:00 PM

Quote:

You are correct...the vertical line east/west line is very significant. There is no geographical reason for this.

It coincides roughly with 100 degrees west, and it's the line between areas where crops can be grown without irrigation and areas that are traditionally rangeland -- or completely unused. A matter of precipitation.

A population map of the world today correlates extremely well with the fertility of the soil and the abundance of rainfall. A few areas (like parts of Arizona and Nevada) have been settled heavily in the post-agricultural era, but those are the exception, not the rule.

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Starmon
member

Reged: 05/25/09

Loc: Front Range Northern Colorado

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: Tony Flanders]
#3519599 - 12/24/09 11:33 AM Attachment (75 downloads)

Greetings,
Great work Jon, I found your app. a while ago and added 6 sites myself. Albers had compiled a list of about 400 dark sky sites with Lat/Long. Several years ago, using ArcMap9.2 I converted the list to a .dbf and overlaid it on a georeferenced layer of Cinzano's light pollution zones in the US. Currently with the NPS, I am producing In-Situ Light Pollution Hemispheres from data taken by the Night Sky Monitoring Team. We are in the process of re-processing the data, so that it will also show JUST the light pollution, from most of the National Parks in the US (~300).
It would seem to be a very good idea to link all this great data on LP, to help reinforce our case and implement solutions. A web-ring of sorts? Dark Skies!! Shield and point those lights down.
Several of these preliminary hemisphere models have been post on the in-Situ LP Hemisphere thread.

Post Extras:

Fimpster
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 09/24/09

Loc: Aprox. 1 AU from Sun

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: Starmon]
#3565445 - 01/17/10 12:15 AM

I'm a little late to this thread but I just found your website Jon. Excellent work! Thanks.

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xsmatt81
sage

Reged: 02/13/08

Loc: Las Vegas, NV

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: Tony Flanders]
#3652140 - 02/28/10 04:31 AM

well damn. I feel somewhat fortunate living in las vegas. Its only an hour or two drive to get away from light pollution

after seeing the eastern seaboard on that map WOW.

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Starmon
member

Reged: 05/25/09

Loc: Front Range Northern Colorado

Re: Google Maps meets L.P...Dark Site Ft. Union NM new

[Re: xsmatt81]
#3656278 - 03/02/10 11:56 AM Attachment (89 downloads)

Greetings,
I just added the Ft. Union site on the Dark Sky Finder. We found it a Bortle Class 2 site, small light dome from closest city
and flat horizon. Albuquerque's light dome is at 240*.
Check out: http://www.jshine.net/astronomy/dark_sky/index.php?lat=35.83228833783694&lng=-105.01419067382812&zoom=11

Dark skies,
TomT

Post Extras:

blb
Post Laureate

Reged: 11/25/05

Loc: Piedmont NC

Re: Google Maps meets L.P...Dark Site Ft. Union NM new

[Re: Starmon]
#3656743 - 03/02/10 04:05 PM

This is a great web site and I love it. I live in a white zone and our clubs dark sky site is in a yellow zone. No fun! I have a question though. How can you print out the map with the colored zones showing up? I would really like to print out our clubs site to show other members.

Thanks, Buddy

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Starmon
member

Reged: 05/25/09

Loc: Front Range Northern Colorado

Re: Google Maps meets L.P...Dark Site Ft. Union NM new

[Re: blb]
#3656892 - 03/02/10 05:23 PM

Overlay the Light Pollution map of Cinzano's on Google Earth, then find your location,
position it properly to suit and do a screen grab. Print that.

Post Extras:

Starmon
member

Reged: 05/25/09

Loc: Front Range Northern Colorado

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: Tony Flanders]
#3672368 - 03/10/10 01:35 PM Attachment (88 downloads)

Greetings all,
I just uploaded a new Ft. Collins hemisphere to Google Earth Community.
This one lists only the Net Light Pollution. As bad as it looks, it's not a bad location,
considering how close it is to town.

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=1313486#Post1313486

Post Extras:

MichaelAK
member

Reged: 06/11/12

Loc: Las Vegas, NV (suburb)

Re: Google Maps meets Light Pollution new

[Re: jshine]
#5482603 - 10/21/12 08:01 PM

Found jshine's link extremely helpful. Thank you very much.
http://www.jshine.net/astronomy/dark_sky/

But, no comments here in a couple years.
Wondering if there any updates to that map.

(Unfortunately, I'm in the Bortle red zone -- Las Vegas (Summerlin), NV. And, if I wanted to build a small observatory an hour away, I would worry about police protection and vandalism)

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