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General Astronomy >> Light Pollution

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herrointment
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/12/11

Loc: North of Hwy. 64
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: Joe Bergeron]
      #5727240 - 03/12/13 12:30 AM

I've decided to take a positive view of the situation.....when all our hills are carted away and pumped underground we will have wonderful unobstructed views of the horizon.

When the sand runs out or the price crashes it's dead certain they will be gone as quickly as they arrived and the lights will be extinguished.

Then the real work will begin.


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Joe Bergeron
Vendor - Space Art


Reged: 11/10/03

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: herrointment]
      #5727323 - 03/12/13 01:52 AM

Luckily the price of natural gas has fallen enough that the frackers are no longer quite so eager to move into NY.

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George N
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: Joe Bergeron]
      #5727897 - 03/12/13 11:09 AM

Quote:

I don't think I'll be able to stand it if they start fracking here. I'll have to get out. .....




Joe,

My plan is to move to the Adirondacks, or another nice dark place like North Korea….. oh wait, I mean Cuba! It should be nice there for about 5 years after the hardcore Commies leave and before the casino industry builds up too many lights.


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dkb
sage


Reged: 07/23/08

Loc: Minnesota
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: northernontario]
      #5730547 - 03/13/13 03:29 PM

Although PA looks just as bad in the light pollution map shown at the beginning of this thread this map shows the Bakken oil fields much more prominently and was taken just last year:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/view.php?id=79800


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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
*****

Reged: 07/25/06

Loc: Canton, OH
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: dkb]
      #5734206 - 03/15/13 02:09 PM

Interesting feature--there's a substantial light pollution source that's equivalent to a town of 5,000-10,000 people about halfway between Caldwell and Woodsfield, OH. Last time I was there 10 years ago, there was NOTHING out there. Heck, we even had an observing site.

Anyone familiar with SE Ohio know what that could be? It's near the town of Summerfield.

Clear Skies,
Phil


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zippeee
sage


Reged: 12/27/10

Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: dkb]
      #5734540 - 03/15/13 05:27 PM

Quote:

Although PA looks just as bad in the light pollution map shown at the beginning of this thread this map shows the Bakken oil fields much more prominently and was taken just last year:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/view.php?id=79800




Gee, reminds me of home

Seriously though, that Bakken development is mental!


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herrointment
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/12/11

Loc: North of Hwy. 64
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: zippeee]
      #5734901 - 03/15/13 08:33 PM

When there's big money involved the speed at which change occur boggles the mind.

My friend sold the farm for frac mining, just like everyone else. In 14 months it went from a quiet farm where you easily mistook the Milky Way for clouds to a giant hole with a bridge and a train loading facility that runs 24/7.

They did not want to sell but they had little recourse and are actually devastated by the results.

This happened in an area that has stayed basically unchanged in my lifetime.

The mile(s) long conveyor belt is in the approval stamping stage. More lights needed undoubtedly.

I no longer recognize the area. Everything that was familiar to me has vanished in little over a year.


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mountain monk
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/06/09

Loc: Grand Teton National Park
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: northernontario]
      #5742111 - 03/19/13 12:32 AM

Perhaps some of you will be gladdened by this. I was.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/the-andes-chronicles-a-ban-on...

Dark skies.

Jack


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Joe Bergeron
Vendor - Space Art


Reged: 11/10/03

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: mountain monk]
      #5742122 - 03/19/13 12:45 AM

Indeed I am.

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t.r.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: Joe Bergeron]
      #5742649 - 03/19/13 10:57 AM

Wow...about time someone took a stand. I have no desire to be able to light my faucet on fire or to drink the eco-friendly chemicals!

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George N
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: mountain monk]
      #5742703 - 03/19/13 11:24 AM

Quote:

Perhaps some of you will be gladdened by this. I was.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/the-andes-chronicles-a-ban-on...

Dark skies.

Jack




Andes NY is a cool little Catskills mountain town that finds it self sitting over massive natural gas deposits. The area outside of town is mostly forest, with some remaining farms.

Hopefully this law will also help protect this dark sky area, just an afternoon’s drive from New York City. I believe that the sky is darker there than the ‘blue zone’ that satellite maps show.

However the gas industry and “land owners’ associations” are not sitting on their drills about this. They are challenging all such laws in court, and have won against the city and town of Binghamton, NY. Other cases are still in the works.

I’m not sure about the situation in Pennsylvania. I’ll have to check, but I believe there is an actual law banning local governments from regulating fracking – or maybe it is just something the governor has proposed? Anyone know?


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t.r.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: George N]
      #5742865 - 03/19/13 12:40 PM

One thing is for sure, the line is drawn in the sand, apparently at the NY/PA border! It will be interesting to see which way this goes...

Edited by csa/montana (03/19/13 12:52 PM)


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richard7Moderator
Not Quite
*****

Reged: 11/02/07

Loc: Sacramento
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: t.r.]
      #5743229 - 03/19/13 03:27 PM

It seems like Andes isn't the only one to try banning it.
Ft Collins Colorado.
Keep an eye on this one.


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neilson
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/22/10

Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: richard7]
      #5743498 - 03/19/13 05:20 PM

Hi,
This fracking has ruined my skies. I live in the Eagle Ford Shale Play. Thats the name of the new big oil and gas fields here. I live on a small ranch outside of Pleasanton, Tx. south of San Antonio.
I had very dark skies. I could see the milkyway pretty good as well as some star clusters and nebulas without my telescope.

First Frac tech built a big sand plant with bright spotlights on top of their towers pointing in my direction about a mile away south. I wrote emails to their headquarters. They actually turned them off and put dimmer lights lower down pointing in a different direction. That helped alot. Around January 2012.

That month the oil companies sent a man to pressure the next ranch over in the West to sell his property. He didn't need the money and refused many times. But that slick developer from the oil company kept after him every few days with more and more money. Eventually they offered so much that he couldn't refuse. They even let him keep the mineral rights.

Immediately they built a bunch of oil field support businessed. Including a huge parking lot for a big fleet of oil tanker trucks. They put up football stadium lights. The lights point sideways instead of down with no shielding. The same thing across the street from them is Louisiana crane company. They built a huge parking lot for their huge cranes. With the same lighting. Next to them another huge lot full of double wide trailers for oil field offices. Same lighting. There are about 10 other new oilfield support businesses with big lots behind them all lit up. The oil company developer last year told us they were building a big area for a Boy Scout camp. What a lie that was. I wrote and mailed hand written letters to each company and each builder and electrician company. I also sent emails to all of them.

The worst over lit place is the trucking company. Their manager and wife came to my ranch and told me they were a "Green" company. He told me he has been told by their headquarters Enterprise oil co. LLC. in Houston Tx. to replace all the bulbs with dimmer ones, and to put shields to prevent the light from going up. And to point the lights down instead of sideways. And that they would set the timmer to turn half the lights off until midnight or 1AM. That was last May and they never did anything. I have sent more emails and letters last Fall but no one will cooperate.

I explained all about light pollution and Astronomy and Imaging. I told them about all the people with kids who came out here all the time to look through my telescopes and some bring their own to set up here. I have a nice wide paved driveway.

I'm out there almost every night but it's not the same with all the light pollution. Its been almost a year since anyone else has come out here. They are building more businesses comming closer. Their about 1/4 mile away and the sky is washed out to the West now. There were no businesses on our road before. They keep all the lights burning bright all night even though they are all mostly closed then. Their oil, they can afford to waste electricity.
The Milky Way is somewhat washed out now. Its still somewhat dark in the East.

Neilson Shepard


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George N
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: neilson]
      #5743537 - 03/19/13 05:41 PM

Quote:

Hi,
This fracking has ruined my skies. .......
Neilson Shepard




Sad story.


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mountain monk
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/06/09

Loc: Grand Teton National Park
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: George N]
      #5743735 - 03/19/13 06:54 PM

Neilson,

I am very sorry to hear that.

Dark skies.

Jack


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herrointment
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/12/11

Loc: North of Hwy. 64
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: mountain monk]
      #5743761 - 03/19/13 07:03 PM

It is an all to familiar tale.

I wish you the best of luck....


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FirstSight
Duke of Deneb
*****

Reged: 12/26/05

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: herrointment]
      #5744003 - 03/19/13 09:04 PM

Historically in the western U.S., extractive industries of all kinds have created a relatively short bubble of rapid population gsrowth and wealth in various locations, which dissipates as the resource is exhausted, eventually leaving towns that are mere shells of their former selves or sometimes outright ghost towns. So shall this pass in another two or three decades in western North Dakota and western Pennsylvania (even though that's not "out west"). In the meantime, bad for astronomy, and the longer term bad for the regional water supplies.

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MEE
super member


Reged: 07/10/10

Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA [Re: FirstSight]
      #5744355 - 03/20/13 01:58 AM

The light pollution that Neilson refers to can be seen as an arc of lights on the photo below running from NW of Nuevo Laredo to E of San Antonio:

http://www.blue-marble.de/nightlights/2012


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neilson
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/22/10

Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA [Re: MEE]
      #5744678 - 03/20/13 08:45 AM

Hi,
That arc from Laredo to East of SanAntonio use to be complete darkness and emptyness a few years back. That area is now littered with over a hundred well lit new camper trailer parks and man camps all full of oil field workers. And lots of well lit drilling rigs. There are over 5,000 oil men moved in the Pleasanton area alone this past year. Our 1,000ft water well had the best tasting water but last year they were fracing in the area now the water tastes nasty. We had to put a water filter system in and we now buy lots of bottled water. We had our first earthquake ever, last year. They had been doing heavy fracing that week. Guess where the epicenter was. Right below that fracing well south of Pleasanton.

Neilson


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