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General Astronomy >> Light Pollution

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schinia
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Reged: 05/17/13

Loc: cape carteret,NC
not like it used to be
      #5896708 - 06/01/13 08:21 PM

i never noticed the stars at night in bayridge (brooklyn) ny. but after the family moved to massapequa,ny in 1952, us kids used to lay on the grass at night watching the sky. as the years passed the sky at night became invisible.it's funny now that i started complaining about light pollution 40 years ago, and people thought i was crazy. then in 1966 we moved to upstate ny. and you could see the stars again. then it started to disappear as the years passed. then we moved to emerald isle,nc in 1993. and you could see the stars again, if you walked out to the ocean on the beach. then it started to disappear again. they started to put really bright lights on these long poles and you had a hard time just seeing where you were walking. some times you wonder about people. why do they think they have to flood vast areas with these blinding lights. now i'm in a subdivision in the woods, and the street lamps are 150 feet apart. the whole place is lit up ! if i could only get everyone to get into telescopes ? you cany even go out on the fishing piers, they flood them with bright lights too.

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amicus sidera
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: schinia]
      #5896907 - 06/01/13 10:35 PM

Quote:

some times you wonder about people. why do they think they have to flood vast areas with these blinding lights.




Selfishness, ignorance, aping what others are doing out of pack mentality; all these figure into the situation to a degree. However, I think that the overriding reason is fear - fear of the dark and what it might hold.

There was a time within living memory when most people had light within, metaphysically speaking, and darkness held no horrors for them. If one looks around today, it is apparent that this internal illumination has for the most part faded away; the increase in light pollution is proportional to the population's descent into spiritual darkness. The inner light having gone out in the souls of most, the enveloping darkness ignites a well-founded dread within them... the result is an external, unsuccessful attempt, via excessive lighting, to banish the shadows, and more importantly, what lurks within them.

Light pollution is indicative of spiritual pollution, a symptom of a sick world; one wildly out of balance and careening towards destruction.


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schinia
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Reged: 05/17/13

Loc: cape carteret,NC
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5900078 - 06/03/13 04:25 PM

very well said. also very sad.

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Tony Flanders
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5900150 - 06/03/13 05:05 PM

Quote:

I think that the overriding reason is fear - fear of the dark and what it might hold.




That's certainly a huge factor. Arguably even more important are safety and convenience. Street lighting makes things much safer for pedestrians, both to avoid stumbling on obstacles and to avoid getting hit by cars. And it greatly reduces certain classes of car accidents -- though it probably slightly increases others.

Quote:

There was a time within living memory when most people had light within, metaphysically speaking, and darkness held no horrors for them.




Yeah, right. So how come "darkness" has been used as a metaphor for ignorance and terror since time immemorial? As in Conrad's "Heart of Darkness."

Fear of darkness is innate in our species -- for good reason. As mammals go, we have exceptionally poor night vision. Together with mediocre hearing and virtually nonexistent sense of smell -- the other senses that most animals rely on at night.

I'm not saying that fear is the only innate reaction to darkness; we also have an innate love of darkness that tends to be suppressed in modern society.

Of course, the modern fear of darkness goes beyond what's innate; it's also conditioned in our society precisely because darkness is so rare. Back before electric lights, people had to get used to darkness whether they liked it or not. Not so now. So now, fear of the unfamiliar (another universal human trait) is a big factor in fear of darkness.

If I had to blame a single factor for light pollution, it would be the automobile, which has alienated us from nature in every conceivable way.


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5901090 - 06/04/13 02:49 AM

Quote:


Fear of darkness is innate in our species -- for good reason. As mammals go, we have exceptionally poor night vision. Together with mediocre hearing and virtually nonexistent sense of smell -- the other senses that most animals rely on at night.




Tony:

Good points... Awareness and apprehension, fear is a reasonable emotion and a valuable emotion, it prevents us from doing foolish things.

My inner light allows others to light the night if they feel the need.

Jon


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derangedhermit
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5901429 - 06/04/13 10:15 AM

Quote:

The inner light having gone out in the souls of most, the enveloping darkness ignites a well-founded dread within them...




Why do you think this "dread" is well-founded?

This post mentions the mystic, spirituality, "metaphysics", the "soul", etc. Do your beliefs have a mainstream name?


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Tony Flanders
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: derangedhermit]
      #5901940 - 06/04/13 02:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The inner light having gone out in the souls of most, the enveloping darkness ignites a well-founded dread within them...




Why do you think this "dread" is well-founded?

This post mentions the mystic, spirituality, "metaphysics", the "soul", etc. Do your beliefs have a mainstream name?




Better not go there.


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derangedhermit
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Loc: USA
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5902231 - 06/04/13 05:22 PM

It's not me going there. I was pointing out the obvious.

People put lights on fishing piers:
1) to provide light for what they are doing, often with small objects, tying knots in line, or using knives cutting bait
2) to attract fish; people drop floating light onto the water's surface to do the same thing.


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richard7Moderator
Not Quite
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5902236 - 06/04/13 05:23 PM

Quote:



Better not go there.




Yup.


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: derangedhermit]
      #5902335 - 06/04/13 06:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The inner light having gone out in the souls of most, the enveloping darkness ignites a well-founded dread within them...




Why do you think this "dread" is well-founded?

This post mentions the mystic, spirituality, "metaphysics", the "soul", etc. Do your beliefs have a mainstream name?




When it comes to fear and dread, I find it valuable to consider my own and not make presumptions/projections about the inner lives of others.

Jon


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derangedhermit
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5902350 - 06/04/13 06:22 PM

I have found this helpful over the years, often when most needed - and I do believe it is most appropriate for cloudynights.com.

The Peace of Wild Things by Wendell Berry (with permission)


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mountain monk
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/06/09

Loc: Grand Teton National Park
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: derangedhermit]
      #5902607 - 06/04/13 08:41 PM

Yes, a fine poem, one of his best. May we all heed it.

I like darkness and solitude and find great peace there.

Dark skies.

Jack


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: mountain monk]
      #5902783 - 06/04/13 10:16 PM

Quote:

Yes, a fine poem, one of his best. May we all heed it.

I like darkness and solitude and find great peace there.

Dark skies.

Jack




Jack:

When I saw that had posted to this thread... I immediately thought to myself:

In all your trips to the top, you must have spent more than a few clear nights on top of Grand Teton. How glorious would that be? nearly 14,000 feet, looking out over the valley, up to Yellowstone, to the south and to the west... and nothing but bright, bright stars overhead...

Jon


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mountain monk
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/06/09

Loc: Grand Teton National Park
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5902866 - 06/04/13 10:55 PM

Jon,

Not many nights on top--a few after climbing the Exum Ridge in the moonlight--but over 400 nights at our hut at 11,700 feet. We left for the climb at 4am, and since everyone was huffing and puffing and wanted to rest, there were many chances to point out the stars, some constellations, and rattle on about their stories. When the weather was good, we slept outside. I always had my binoculars, and I can't think of many (some) things better than crashed in a sleeping bag looking at the dark sky. Fond memories of all that!

Do you remember the tune:

"I see skies of blue, and clouds of white
The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world."

Louis Armstrong

Dark skies.

Jack


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Starlon
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Reged: 04/18/06

Loc: desert, USA
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: mountain monk]
      #5904302 - 06/05/13 04:40 PM

"THERE was a time when meadow, grove, and stream,
The earth, and every common sight,
To me did seem
Apparell'd in celestial light,
The glory and the freshness of a dream.
It is not now as it hath been of yore;—
Turn wheresoe'er I may,
By night or day,
The things which I have seen I now can see no more."

Wordsworth got that right, the 'celestial light' emanating from our own galaxy and all the faint fuzzies !

And so, ever since Edison demonstrated to and was backed by financiers, including J.P. Morgan and the Vanderbilt family in late 1879, which also included lighting J.P. Morgan's and the few other investor's homes. And that date in 1882 when he threw the switch that engaged the syndicate's six 'Jumbo' dynamos at the Pearl Street power plant, and lit up Broadway... we started on the long road to bright nights. And BIG buck$ for all the ensuing corporations that quickly cashed-in on the lighting industry. Although better ways of lighting developed fairly quickly, such as the fluorescent light. Edison invented a fluorescent lamp in 1896 and got a patent in 1907, it was not put into production. Hmm.. too efficient? It would cut into the profits of JP's syndicate. Even the CFL was from the 1940s. But - like right up to today, the dark-age incandescent bulbs, just like from 135 years ago.. STILL pollute the sky. The power of corporate lobbies !

But.. nothing lasts forever. It seems the economics of LED lighting which is mostly quite directional - as in down lighting, will increasingly creep into every city around the planet.

Darker nights are coming !


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Mxplx2
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Starlon]
      #5904620 - 06/05/13 07:54 PM

"not like it used to be" is only evident to anyone old enough to know how it used to be. To the younger generation, it's always been this way, it's all they know. So why would they support any return to the way it used to be?

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mountain monk
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Mxplx2]
      #5904664 - 06/05/13 08:27 PM

A key point.

That's why it is so important to encourage people, especially young people, to get to a black or gray zone sky--to see the beauty of the night sky, to see it's possibilities and wonder. Continuous observing under a white zone sky produces a skewed vision of what astronomy can be, increases acceptance of diminished skies, and suppresses a vivid sense of the need for change. Yes, many people are stuck with it, make the best of it, etc., and more power to them, bless them. But.... It's rather like having an opinion of Rembrandt when you have only viewed his paintings through sandblasted glass. The wonder of dark skies is lost, and it is that wonder that drives science, poetry, enchantment, and much else of value. IMHO, of course.

Dark skies.

Jack


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Mxplx2]
      #5905316 - 06/06/13 07:07 AM

Quote:

"not like it used to be" is only evident to anyone old enough to know how it used to be. To the younger generation, it's always been this way, it's all they know. So why would they support any return to the way it used to be?




As Jack points out, getting out to dark skies, something that many city dwellers do when camping and such, is important. I think it is a good thing.

I have no with any goal in mind but simply believe it should be part of everyone's experience.

I do take issue with the idea that light pollution and electric lights are some sort of corporate scheme.

We all use electricity, we all use electric lights, we all benefit from electric lights at night and we are all partially responsible for light pollution. Imagine cross the street in a busy intersection if the cars and buses had no lights...

Jon


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Tony Flanders
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5905449 - 06/06/13 08:40 AM

Quote:

We are all partially responsible for light pollution.




Hear, hear! This is why holier-than-thou statements irk me so much.

Quote:

Imagine cross the street in a busy intersection if the cars and buses had no lights.




Done that; it's common enough in 3rd-world countries. Works OK, sort of. But fatality rates are much higher than here.


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schinia
member


Reged: 05/17/13

Loc: cape carteret,NC
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5905634 - 06/06/13 10:21 AM

not to get off the subject, but did you know that grave sites and some small cemeteries are disappearing every day in this country. dating back to the 1700's we are losing part of ourselves. even the forests. did you know the colonists had tree Bee's, to clear more than an acre for a cabin. by taking down over 300 year old trees, on virgin land. that had not had the sun hit the ground for centuries, starting in the morning and were able to see the stars by nightfall ! yes just a few hours. you wouldn't believe how they did it with just axes.

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Jon Isaacs
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5905909 - 06/06/13 12:37 PM

Quote:

Hear, hear! This is why holier-than-thou statements irk me so much.




OK...

I am partially responsible for the light pollution...

There's a question that each of us might ask ourselves.

Jon


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Ebyl
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5905924 - 06/06/13 12:45 PM

Everyone cares about different things. The most you can do is try to politely educate people about the things you care about and hope some of it rubs off.

I don't think it's an indicator of the degradation of humans, their spirits, or anything else. It's just human nature that you can't care about everything, and as was mentioned, many people don't have much experience outside of cities to compare anything to.

Every single person does "stupid" and "unreasonable" stuff each day. Multiple times. Some of it will bother one person, while another (including the person doing it) won't think anything of it.

That's life as a human.

Edited by Ebyl (06/06/13 12:45 PM)


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Mxplx2
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Reged: 09/12/12

Loc: PA USA
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Ebyl]
      #5906060 - 06/06/13 01:46 PM

Is it more light pollution by itself or more people needing lights? I'm old enough to remember when the population in the U.S. was 180 million. It's over 300 million now and all afraid of the dark (or maybe of eachother), hence more lights.

Edited by Mxplx2 (06/06/13 01:47 PM)


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Ebyl]
      #5906101 - 06/06/13 02:07 PM

Quote:

Everyone cares about different things. The most you can do is try to politely educate people about the things you care about and hope some of it rubs off.

I don't think it's an indicator of the degradation of humans, their spirits, or anything else. It's just human nature that you can't care about everything, and as was mentioned, many people don't have much experience outside of cities to compare anything to.

Every single person does "stupid" and "unreasonable" stuff each day. Multiple times. Some of it will bother one person, while another (including the person doing it) won't think anything of it.

That's life as a human.






Very well said..

Everyone does the best they can...

Jon


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Thomas Karpf
Carpal Tunnel


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Loc: Newington, CT
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5906144 - 06/06/13 02:22 PM

Something to keep in mind:

Gas stations open at all hours.
Grocery stores open at all hours.
Many businesses needing to be open at all hours to deal with an electronically connected world.

Street lights required to be on at all hours for those people who have to shop at 2am.

Lawsuits because of accidents that happened in the dark.


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derangedhermit
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Loc: USA
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: schinia]
      #5906263 - 06/06/13 03:23 PM

Driving a vehicle down a public road and using traffic lights at intersections fall outside my definition (and I think, for example, the IDA's definition) of light pollution. (Provided the lights are properly aligned and shielded, of course.)

Almost all interior lighting also falls outside my definition of light pollution. People may be interfering with their own natural cycles of sleep, but that's their business. I can imagine exceptions to this, where interior lighting should be held to the same standard as exterior lighting (e.g. no "light trespass").

I'm even willing to give a pass on light reflected from ground surfaces, provided the light itself is behaving properly - not too bright for the need, and full-cutoff - provided the surface needs to be illuminated at all.

To me these limits on what I call "light pollution", and a few more, like light intruding on others' property, define a balance between the benefits of lighting and the drawbacks.

In one sense it is true that any artificial light at night that escapes into the atmosphere outside a closed space is light pollution. But I don't see the need for dark skies as an absolute need overriding all others, and I don't see calling people driving vehicles at night "light polluters" helpful to making the skies as dark as possible.

We each emit CO2 when we exhale. Since the EPA now considers CO2 a pollutant, are all human beings now subject to derogatory terms?

I've been down this road with ardent environmentalists before, and the logical conclusion is the extermination of the species - nothing else is sufficient.


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panhard
It's All Good
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: derangedhermit]
      #5907655 - 06/07/13 10:17 AM

We could get along quite nicely with half of the street lights on streets where there are other forms of lighting. Car dealerships and plazas are the first sources of light that comes to mind.

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FirstSight
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Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: mountain monk]
      #5907667 - 06/07/13 10:24 AM

Quote:


That's why it is so important to encourage people, especially young people, to get to a black or gray zone sky--to see the beauty of the night sky, to see it's possibilities and wonder. Continuous observing under a white zone sky produces a skewed vision of what astronomy can be, increases acceptance of diminished skies, and suppresses a vivid sense of the need for change....




The vast majority of urban/suburban teens and early twenty-somethings lack ANY ability to recognize anything in the night sky beyond superficial familiarity with the moon. Bright as Jupiter is in the months when it's up in the early night sky, vanishingly few can recognize even that, or even recognize Venus as something other than simply a very bright star. They do probably remember the Big Dipper from some trip to a rural location, but that's about it as far as constellations.

The natural dark night sky (or even a moderately light-pollution compromised version thereof where the major constellations are still easily recognizable) is simply not part of their experience, except for infrequent brief outings to rural areas (and even then it's not something that truly engages their attention beyond "isn't that lovely to see so many stars").

I really wish this wasn't so, and the several dozen to couple hundred who will occasionally turn out for public outreach events encouragingly tempt me toward optimism, but the hard reality is that we're not successfully engaging more than a small fraction of the public toward increased awareness of and interest in the true night sky.

Edited by FirstSight (06/07/13 10:26 AM)


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FirstSight
Duke of Deneb
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Reged: 12/26/05

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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: FirstSight]
      #5907692 - 06/07/13 10:38 AM

OTOH, there are a few perverse bonuses in being among the relatively few who know the night sky. In the current (June '13) night sky, you can astound people by pointing out that the yellowish "star" high in the southern sky is the planet Saturn. As long as you find a graceful way to segue conversation into pointing that out, and the person(s) you're talking to at least superficially appreciate the loveliness of the evening sky, you can usually elicit a pleasantly astonished reaction from them (no s**& that's Saturn?)

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csrlice12
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: FirstSight]
      #5907733 - 06/07/13 11:10 AM

Get some people to truely dark skies and you'd better bring a lot of toilet paper.....

I have a nephew who likes his binoculars to view the moon and Jupiter and will take looks in the scope at home when I set it up....but if I ask him if he wants to go to the dark site.....not interested at all at "being out in the middle of nowhere"....go figure....


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audioaficionado
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/24/12

Loc: Medford, Orygun, USA
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5908325 - 06/07/13 04:37 PM

Lots of black skies in my region. Can't see anyone moving there or the few towns growing very fast. No jobs, little water, far from civilization. Few people going out there as it is a bit of a hassle driving a few hours just to see the stars.

Safety wise you are on your own if you happen to encounter a criminal or predator. It is still more dangerous near the populated regions as they have enough light to target their next victims and a higher density of criminals to encounter. As local safety budgets are cut, the criminals are getting bolder due to early releases and lack of patrols or legal consequences.

I have lots of wonderful memories of sleeping in my backyard looking up into the sky and seeing lots of stars and the milky way. Now I can only see the brightest stars.

I hope the LEDs don't enable the lights to get even brighter because of safety demands and lower energy costs. Even directional lighting will bounce back up off the ground if bright enough and in the bluer spectrum.


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: audioaficionado]
      #5908334 - 06/07/13 04:42 PM

Quote:

I hope the LEDs don't enable the lights to get even brighter because of safety demands and lower energy costs. Even directional lighting will bounce back up off the ground if bright enough and in the bluer spectrum.




That's a sobbering thought. Darn

Jon


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ColoHank
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/07/07

Loc: western Colorado
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5908589 - 06/07/13 07:08 PM

Pogo said it best: "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

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Tony Flanders
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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: derangedhermit]
      #5909311 - 06/08/13 07:48 AM

Quote:

We each emit CO2 when we exhale. Since the EPA now considers CO2 a pollutant, are all human beings now subject to derogatory terms?




Many of us also emit large quantities of methane, a much more potent greenhouse gas.

Seriously, though ...

Either side of this, taken to its logical extreme, becomes ridiculous. Of course it's reasonable to place restrictions on the amount of light pollution that individuals create, just as it's reasonable to prohibit people from blasting loud rock music out their windows at 3 a.m. Equally obvious, prohibiting all light pollution is neither practical nor morally defensible.

Balance in all things.


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ColoHank
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Reged: 06/07/07

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Re: not like it used to be new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5909800 - 06/08/13 01:42 PM

Quote:

Equally obvious, prohibiting all light pollution is neither practical nor morally defensible.






One man's irritant is another man's comfort and security. Prohibiting the use of artificial light is obviously not defensible, but attempting to prohibit light pollution (or any other kind of unwanted contamination or intrusion, for that matter) certainly is. Also indefensible is the failure of or outright refusal of the powers-that-be who have passed reasonable light-pollution ordinances to enforce them.


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derangedhermit
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/07/09

Loc: USA
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: ColoHank]
      #5910089 - 06/08/13 04:51 PM

Tony, I agree, that was exactly my point. We have to balance priorities as individuals and as a society.

Hank, I think governments do great harm to their citizens when they have laws and do not enforce them, for whatever reason, on whatever topic. If they can't or won't enforce it, then they should get it off the books.

Lee


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Dennis Kuefner
member


Reged: 05/30/13

Loc: South Central Minnesota, USA
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: schinia]
      #5913648 - 06/10/13 05:36 PM

Talk about remembering the way it was. Those of us old enough remember an era before interstate highways, malls, strip malls, businesses open 24/7, businesses open on Sundays. During the week businesses would close in the evening and would only be open half a day on Saturday. Seems we are paying the price for success and advancement. Yes there are still pristine areas, lets try to save what's still there. I have been to places where you could read the Wall Street Journal by the light of the milky way. Currently I in a yellow/green area which is fine. I have it better seeing than those city dwellers but still poorer than others. Remember that this problem has been around a while. Remember when they built "the perfect machine" the 200 inch they already ruled out Passadena for light pollution from L. A.

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audioaficionado
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/24/12

Loc: Medford, Orygun, USA
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: derangedhermit]
      #5913776 - 06/10/13 06:53 PM

Quote:

Tony, I agree, that was exactly my point. We have to balance priorities as individuals and as a society.

Hank, I think governments do great harm to their citizens when they have laws and do not enforce them, for whatever reason, on whatever topic. If they can't or won't enforce it, then they should get it off the books.

Lee




They need those laws on the books so they can selectively enforce 'em as they see fit.


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amicus sidera
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/14/11

Loc: East of the Sun, West of the M...
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: audioaficionado]
      #5914281 - 06/10/13 11:12 PM

Quote:


They need those laws on the books so they can selectively enforce 'em as they see fit.




+1.

Fred


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csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5920306 - 06/14/13 10:18 AM

"We'll start enforcing them as soon as the money to not enforce them quits coming in"

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George N
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5920555 - 06/14/13 12:53 PM

I don't think it's surprising that getting good anti-LP laws is only the first step for "anti-LP activists". The next step, just as important, is to insure that they are enforced. In some cases it's a matter of highway and other public departments not knowing how to comply.

I see on the RPI (my alma mater) Lighting Center website that they offer a lighting design and consulting service tailored to help local and state governments comply with existing anti-LP law. This seems to be mostly aimed at those New England states and localities that have added such laws in recent years.

BTW the RPI center also is pushing their design for "smart street-lighting" wherein traffic and weather sensors and computer software tailor each LED street-light to the brightness needed for current conditions (as determined by their engineering studies). Basically, no traffic - the system turns the lights off, etc.


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csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: George N]
      #5920653 - 06/14/13 02:01 PM

Of the three street lights surrounding my property, I like the one that burnt out the best.....

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schinia
member


Reged: 05/17/13

Loc: cape carteret,NC
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5922005 - 06/15/13 10:45 AM

now that gives me an idea!

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richard7Moderator
Not Quite
*****

Reged: 11/02/07

Loc: Sacramento
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: schinia]
      #5922144 - 06/15/13 11:57 AM

Quote:

now that gives me an idea!




Oh please. Let's not head in that direction.


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schinia
member


Reged: 05/17/13

Loc: cape carteret,NC
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: richard7]
      #5922201 - 06/15/13 12:30 PM

contrary to opinion, and sayings, the meek will never inherit the earth,and if you give a person enough rope he will hang himself. NOOO, he will hang YOU !

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Starlon
sage


Reged: 04/18/06

Loc: desert, USA
Re: not like it used to be new [Re: schinia]
      #5922451 - 06/15/13 03:27 PM

http://www.gizmag.com/led-streetlamp/27246/

Quote:

For astronomers, a well-lit city means a sky unavailable for study.

The proposed street lamp loses only two percent of its light as direct pollution and reduces energy consumption by 40 to 60 percent. LED street lamp design based on a three-part lighting fixture, with the first part containing a cluster of high-efficiency LEDs. These use Total Internal Reflection (TIR) lenses, which focuses the light into parallel rays. The LEDs are mounted inside a reflecting cavity that helps keep the light from scattering and, as it leaves the unit, light is passed through a diffuser to reduce glare. According to the team, this design allows the lamp to project a uniform rectangle of light over a given area.




Another good article: http://www.osa.org/en-us/about_osa/newsroom/newsreleases/2013/new_led_streetl...

The.. leading nations around the planet are continually advancing their nations technology. Although we in the USA could have been at the cutting edge of so very many things - our.. nation's handlers deem to continue using their old infrastructure and old technologies.

We could be building a maglev transport system too. But..


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