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General Astronomy >> Light Pollution

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darknesss
sage


Reged: 09/05/13

Re: court order new [Re: magic612]
      #6080981 - 09/14/13 07:32 PM

Get some young pigeons and train them to sit on the lamps by putting food on the lamps. Then figure out a way to make them wipe their behinds by using the light bulbs.



On the other hand, it's a bad idea. Better replace pigeons with woodpeckers.

Edited by darknesss (09/14/13 07:34 PM)


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Daniel Guzas
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/20/10

Loc: Bethlehem NH/ Boston MA
Re: court order new [Re: darknesss]
      #6081134 - 09/14/13 09:36 PM

It's such a shame that others can be so brash. I mean " you will have to get a court order". ?? Come ON??! What is he,...12 years old or something...? Grow up and be a man and work with your fellow neighbor for goodness sake! 

What happened to being respectful and treat others the way you want to be treated? If I were approached by a neighbor that something of mine was bothering them, I would at least attempt to make adjustments to address the situation. Unfortunately there are many out there who really don't care and this is why there is so much fear and loathing in our world today. And people like that will live miserable lives under the shroud of paranoia and loneliness.  Even if they don't admit it, it will be there, never able to let the finer gentler things in life penetrate their facade and being. It really is a shame. Having said that not everyone has the capacity to be nice or play nice so it is up to us who have to be the grown ups and work out a solution, even if it means getting a court order. It is insane, but if that is his response then what the heck! What other choice is he leaving you?? You are pushed into a corner.... Sigh....

If people just stepped back and off their high horse and thought for a minute before they acted, the world would be a much better place. The person that you describe really burns me up!! There is no need to act that way no matter what the circumstance.

Now I am fired up!!!    I wish you luck!


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Jeff Phinney
super member


Reged: 02/20/13

Loc: CA
Re: court order new [Re: magic612]
      #6081215 - 09/14/13 10:30 PM

Ok Dave, I'm going to give it one more try:

Going back to your original idea of using the silver crown bulbs, how about doing this? Since your neighbor seems to want to use CFLs maybe you can try modifying some CFLs( http://www.genesislamp.com/cacofllibutb.html ) using white spray paint applied on the side of the bulb that faces towards your house.

That way the light goes where they want it, all over their yard, house. and driveway and not in your direction. They'll get even more of what they want or you might even get away with using a lower wattage bulb. Don't really see how they could argue with that strategy. Unless of course they feel lighting up the entire neighborhood makes them feel safer.


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magic612
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/30/08

Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
Re: court order new [Re: Jeff Phinney]
      #6081259 - 09/14/13 11:03 PM

Quote:

Ok Dave, I'm going to give it one more try:

Going back to your original idea of using the silver crown bulbs, how about doing this? Since your neighbor seems to want to use CFLs maybe you can try modifying some CFLs( http://www.genesislamp.com/cacofllibutb.html ) using white spray paint applied on the side of the bulb that faces towards your house.




Believe me, I gave this a lot of thought already. In fact, I already bought some "Silver Crown CFL's" FROM Genesis Lamp.

I really think it has less to do with the light, and more to so with what "they" want. Seriously. They are the type of people who don't want to be "told" what to do. Of course, I'm not telling them - I'm just asking them. I've even said - explicitly - "I am not asking you to turn your light off; just keep your light on YOUR property so it lights up your driveway and vehicles." But they don't see it that way; they want to be able to put whatever light bulb up they want, in whatever fixture, and run it all day, and all night, and shine wherever it goes.

I asked why. You know what I was told? "We like our light. If you don't like it, buy curtains."

Seriously.

They said the silver crown bulbs are 'too dim,' despite the fact that I KNOW the silver crown put out as many lumens as their old CFL did. In other words, if they don't get glare in their face, then it's not bright enough. I truly believe that's the key: They WANT the light shining at them, so they FEEL like it's bright - where it goes from there, they really, truly don't care.

It's frustrating for me. But I will work to make headway, so I can share with others if I find a route to success. We need to figure these things out, so we can all make some individual headway in these circumstances.

Quote:

Unless of course they feel lighting up the entire neighborhood makes them feel safer.




They really are of the, "More light must be better" belief, based on previous conversations, regardless of the fact that 1) we have negligible crime / vandalism here and 2) less light has shown in many other cities to be more effective at reducing crime anyway.

They really don't care what I think or feel, or if their light intrudes on my property.

It's an uphill battle for me, but I won't give up. Funny thing is, they were so adamant about their last bulb and swapped out the silver crown I gave them in less than 48 hours, but their current CFL has been burned out for 5 days now (I was just outside looking at the Moon) and they still haven't noticed it's out.

Crazy, right?

I don't plan on telling them anytime soon.


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Jeff Phinney
super member


Reged: 02/20/13

Loc: CA
Re: court order new [Re: magic612]
      #6081312 - 09/14/13 11:56 PM

It seems I'm at a disadvantage in this discussion by not understanding the physical layout of where this light is positioned in the yard relative to everything else.
I was under the impression that it was mounted vertically on a lamppost somewhere out in your neighbors yard. If thats the situation, the silver top is going to force all of the upward radiated light downwards. You no doubt already know that and I can understand why they feel that the light is dimmer.
To clarify, what I'm suggesting is that you make a half silver top bulb that gives them what they want. It blocks off the light that would be headed your way and instead is sent back towards them.

If they haven't noticed that the light has been out for the last 5 days, just do it. They no doubt won't notice that anything has changed.

Edited by Jeff Phinney (09/15/13 12:02 AM)


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magic612
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/30/08

Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
Re: court order new [Re: Jeff Phinney]
      #6081321 - 09/15/13 12:01 AM

I truly believe they do not want ANY light blocked on the bulb whatsoever. Their light that shines on my property is MY problem, in their eyes. So there is no solution to be had from any suggestion originating with me (that was made pretty darn clear - not explicitly, but implicitly).

Therefore, I am working on other routes for a successful outcome.


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okiestarman56
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 04/10/08

Loc: 36.40'10.30"N 96.20'04.90" W
Re: court order new [Re: magic612]
      #6081365 - 09/15/13 12:48 AM

went back the next day as he was cutting down some trees to offer some help and apologize for any misunderstanding we had on our first meeting--BIG MISTAKE. Did not want my help and did I have a court order yet. His brother owns the house and he just takes care of the property for him, no one lives in the home. Home has been broke into before, lights (3) are on 24-7 North porch light, North west corner 2 floods, lights up 3 yards. No city ordinance on lights. After a night at the Tallgrass prairie, it is more work to load and drive but after Okie-Tex I will be going to the city council to start talks with them about saving our skies, oh yea police already have had calls about a guy with a rocket launcher, got to love this town.

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Jeff Phinney
super member


Reged: 02/20/13

Loc: CA
Re: court order new [Re: magic612]
      #6081417 - 09/15/13 01:40 AM

Quote:

I truly believe they do not want ANY light blocked on the bulb whatsoever. Their light that shines on my property is MY problem, in their eyes. So there is no solution to be had from any suggestion originating with me (that was made pretty darn clear - not explicitly, but implicitly).





Hate to say it, but I'd say your dealing with a bully and in situations like that, being nice only gets you so far,... if anywhere at all.
I'm no lawyer, so don't take my word, but It may be time for you to take the issue before a judge or arbitrator,... or at least threaten as if you are. Warn your neighbors what it is that you're planning to do about the situation. Make sure that they know that you're serious and that you're going to WASTE THEIR TIME having been forced to deal with the issue in this manner. At this point odds are they will be willing to negotiate in coming to an amicable solution. If they want to be hard nosed about it, you need to be prepared to be just as hard nosed.

You need to make it THEIR problem!

And whatever you do, DO NOT BACK DOWN!

You need to document everything that you have done to mitigate the situation and be prepared to present it,... including your dealings with the power company regarding the street light. Regardless of any light trespass laws that may or may not exist in your area, by DIRECTLY, and what now appears to be BLATANTLY AND INTENSIONALLY illuminating your property, you're neighbors are deliberately violating your right to the peaceful use your property and have in fact created a nuisance with the light shining DIRECTLY into your yard and into your daughters window. Curtains and blinds are NOT a solution, especially during hot weather when you have to pick up the tab for running the A/C. Your requests are no where near unreasonable.


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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: court order new [Re: okiestarman56]
      #6081711 - 09/15/13 09:12 AM

Quote:

I was very diplomatic and nice when I talked with him about adding some shields to the two lights, offered to buy them and install them, he said not to worry that he would take care of them and thanked him and went back to work in my yard. 15 minutes late he came over with an offensive attitude and told me the only way he would shield them is if I got a court order. What do I do know get a court order?




What I don't understand is the very quick change in attitude going from nice to belligerent in a matter of minutes. Perhaps he called his brother (the owner), and the brother said no.


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Ian Robinson
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/29/09

Loc: 33S , 151E
Re: court order new [Re: Seanem44]
      #6081739 - 09/15/13 09:30 AM

He sounds like an ignorant jerk to me , IMO if he wants to go all legalistic, call his bluff.

Get the court order (if it's not going to be expensive to get it and send him the bill), else find a way to stop his lights without actually going onto his land.

Or move.


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Ian Robinson
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/29/09

Loc: 33S , 151E
Re: court order new [Re: Jeff Phinney]
      #6081775 - 09/15/13 10:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I truly believe they do not want ANY light blocked on the bulb whatsoever. Their light that shines on my property is MY problem, in their eyes. So there is no solution to be had from any suggestion originating with me (that was made pretty darn clear - not explicitly, but implicitly).





Hate to say it, but I'd say your dealing with a bully and in situations like that, being nice only gets you so far,... if anywhere at all.
I'm no lawyer, so don't take my word, but It may be time for you to take the issue before a judge or arbitrator,... or at least threaten as if you are. Warn your neighbors what it is that you're planning to do about the situation. Make sure that they know that you're serious and that you're going to WASTE THEIR TIME having been forced to deal with the issue in this manner. At this point odds are they will be willing to negotiate in coming to an amicable solution. If they want to be hard nosed about it, you need to be prepared to be just as hard nosed.

You need to make it THEIR problem!

And whatever you do, DO NOT BACK DOWN!

You need to document everything that you have done to mitigate the situation and be prepared to present it,... including your dealings with the power company regarding the street light. Regardless of any light trespass laws that may or may not exist in your area, by DIRECTLY, and what now appears to be BLATANTLY AND INTENSIONALLY illuminating your property, you're neighbors are deliberately violating your right to the peaceful use your property and have in fact created a nuisance with the light shining DIRECTLY into your yard and into your daughters window. Curtains and blinds are NOT a solution, especially during hot weather when you have to pick up the tab for running the A/C. Your requests are no where near unreasonable.




The light is taking away YOUR PRIVACY , don't back down.


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magic612
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/30/08

Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
Re: court order new [Re: Ian Robinson]
      #6081792 - 09/15/13 10:16 AM

No worries, I won't be backing down, but I do live right next door to them, so I can't go all nuclear on them either. I do have to live next to them as long as both of us own our homes. A level of diplomatic forcefulness is required here.

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aatt
sage


Reged: 07/26/12

Loc: CT
Re: court order new [Re: magic612]
      #6081834 - 09/15/13 10:47 AM

Wow-some people are just too much.Sorry to hear that you live next to an intractable jerk. It amazes me that you can present a reasonable request hinging on a genuine quality of life issue and be completely and rudely disregarded. Can't imagine what it would be like to live inn the same house with this guy...My neighbor has a light that shines directly into my backyard, but 99 nights out of 100 he leaves it off. I have yet to talk to him about it, but he is a reasonable guy and courteous.When the time comes for that conversation, he will no doubt adjust it.Stay focused and don't back down-I think the idea of wasting his time will work.

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csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: court order new [Re: aatt]
      #6081856 - 09/15/13 11:04 AM

Honest, I thought it was a lightbulb factory....When mine burned out, I used their exchange program.....

...need any burned out bulbs?

Edited by csrlice12 (09/15/13 11:06 AM)


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darknesss
sage


Reged: 09/05/13

Re: court order new [Re: okiestarman56]
      #6082099 - 09/15/13 01:53 PM

Quote:

oh yea police already have had calls about a guy with a rocket launcher, got to love this town.




Someone was carrying a telescope on the shoulder in your town?


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csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: court order new [Re: darknesss]
      #6082278 - 09/15/13 03:27 PM

Nope, a rocket launcher...waiting for a used rocket to show up on Astromart.....

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christheman200
sage


Reged: 06/12/13

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: court order new [Re: csrlice12]
      #6082367 - 09/15/13 04:28 PM

I think you meant a grenade launcher... clearly it was loaded with ES 30mm 100*s!
I'm actually pretty lucky... none of my neighbours have any light shining into my backyard, other than one light that I haven't seen on in a while, and it's maybe 3 or 4 houses down. Most of my neighbours are nice people as well.


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Jeff Phinney
super member


Reged: 02/20/13

Loc: CA
Re: court order new [Re: darknesss]
      #6082495 - 09/15/13 05:38 PM

Quote:

Quote:

oh yea police already have had calls about a guy with a rocket launcher, got to love this town.




Someone was carrying a telescope on the shoulder in your town?




Yup, In Oklahoma, it's imperative that the cops and the rest of the citizenry keep a sharp out for Terrorist Astronomers. First those radicals will want all the lights out and then,...
.... they'll expose the children to actual science.

Edited by Jeff Phinney (09/15/13 06:14 PM)


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richard7Moderator
Not Quite
*****

Reged: 11/02/07

Loc: Sacramento
Re: court order new [Re: magic612]
      #6082624 - 09/15/13 07:01 PM

Quote:

Richard, not sure if you were addressing me or not, but if so, yes, I have tried that approach, several times, to no avail. And no worries, I am not considering going the revenge/retaliation route - as satisfying as that can feel when the thought crosses my mind, I know that long-term it is not a viable option. I just want to go the route of results, which may take time, and which may not make them as happy as they'd like to be (spewing light every which way 24/7/365), but this will be a long process of education for a lot of people around town, not just them.

I plan to make the most of it, not myopically focus only on getting one single lamppost changed.




I apologize if any body took this personally. I wasn't trying to single out any one individual but rather the tone of the replies that I read was, I thought, leaning toward a confrontational stance. That kind of bothered me.
Again, my apologies.
Now back to our regularly scheduled thread.


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Phil Cowell
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/24/07

Loc: Southern Tier NY
Re: court order new [Re: Daniel Guzas]
      #6082726 - 09/15/13 08:05 PM

In court you might want to make the point it's your daughters bedroom they are illuminating. Might help with the order.

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