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General Astronomy >> Light Pollution

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Kfrank
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/20/08

Loc: Northern Colorado
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: bangbangexplode]
      #6177624 - 11/05/13 03:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

they asked you to buy some shade for your windows so their light does not inter your house ... mmmh ... maybe rent some stadium sized speakers, pointed in their direction, play the "coming of the valkyres" at full blast every night, all night, and when they complain ... ask them to buy some ear plugs ... or even better, rent some of these giant chicken frying search lights they use for events, and shine them at their house ... tell them, you need this to feel safe, after all, no burglar will come to your house since they risk being incinerated by these lights ... and then ask them to buy some shades or curtains ...



For the first part they'll just call the cops if someone plays music at night. Better play some annoying animal sounds like an owl.




Actually, it would be better to behave like a mature adult and not try to "get back at them".

Such an approach is simply CHILDISH.




I'm pretty sure that was a joke.




I'm pretty sure you just made my case for me!


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barasits
sage


Reged: 06/12/11

Loc: Chicago
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: Kfrank]
      #6177724 - 11/05/13 04:14 PM

The posts by Guy Noir and darkness were tongue in cheek, at least to me. CN has a tradition of lighthearted banter even when the thread is serious, and without the humor it would be a duller place. If you're unsure about the poster's intent, why not give them the benefit of the doubt. In any case, there's no need for personal attacks.

Geoff


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darknesss
super member


Reged: 09/05/13

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: Kfrank]
      #6177942 - 11/05/13 06:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

they asked you to buy some shade for your windows so their light does not inter your house ... mmmh ... maybe rent some stadium sized speakers, pointed in their direction, play the "coming of the valkyres" at full blast every night, all night, and when they complain ... ask them to buy some ear plugs ... or even better, rent some of these giant chicken frying search lights they use for events, and shine them at their house ... tell them, you need this to feel safe, after all, no burglar will come to your house since they risk being incinerated by these lights ... and then ask them to buy some shades or curtains ...



For the first part they'll just call the cops if someone plays music at night. Better play some annoying animal sounds like an owl.




Actually, it would be better to behave like a mature adult and not try to "get back at them".

Such an approach is simply CHILDISH.




I suppose you're right about this approach being CHILDISH. Some people might not even notice an owl. But when your windows are trembling from elephant roars at 1 AM you might rethink attracting wild animals from whatever nearest city that has a zoo with your lights.


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barasits
sage


Reged: 06/12/11

Loc: Chicago
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: darknesss]
      #6178039 - 11/05/13 07:16 PM

I'm pretty sure that unshielded outdoor lighting attracts zombies.

Geoff


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GeneT
Ely Kid
*****

Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6178172 - 11/05/13 08:51 PM

Quote:

sweet. it turns out that they are in clear and full violation of what i just found for our small city:

(1) All outdoor lighting shall have full cutoff-type fixtures (See below.) Cutoffs shall shield bulbs from visibility and may consist of internal baffles or reflectors or external panels or other mechanisms.
(a) General site lighting shall not exceed 90º, the horizontal plane of bottom of lamp fixture. No uplighting is allowed; parking, security and aesthetic lighting must shine downward.
(b) Spotlights used to illuminate buildings, signs or specific site amenities/features shall be targeted on such objects so as to prevent direct uplighting. Cutoffs shall limit lighting to a forty-five-degree angle above the horizontal plane.
(c) Upward search or spotlighting of the sky for entertainment or advertising purposes is prohibited.
good to know i have some backup if we cant get something amicable going. thanks for the response!




How is this enforced, or what is the process to enforce these regulations?


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darknesss
super member


Reged: 09/05/13

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: GeneT]
      #6178320 - 11/05/13 10:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

sweet. it turns out that they are in clear and full violation of what i just found for our small city:

(1) All outdoor lighting shall have full cutoff-type fixtures (See below.) Cutoffs shall shield bulbs from visibility and may consist of internal baffles or reflectors or external panels or other mechanisms.
(a) General site lighting shall not exceed 90º, the horizontal plane of bottom of lamp fixture. No uplighting is allowed; parking, security and aesthetic lighting must shine downward.
(b) Spotlights used to illuminate buildings, signs or specific site amenities/features shall be targeted on such objects so as to prevent direct uplighting. Cutoffs shall limit lighting to a forty-five-degree angle above the horizontal plane.
(c) Upward search or spotlighting of the sky for entertainment or advertising purposes is prohibited.
good to know i have some backup if we cant get something amicable going. thanks for the response!




How is this enforced, or what is the process to enforce these regulations?



I suppose The Code Enforcement Officers do the enforcement, but it'd pretty obvious to the neighbour who tipped them off unless they do a regular inspection, which they'd do during the day.

Edited by darknesss (11/05/13 10:26 PM)


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Guy Noir
sage
*****

Reged: 04/27/05

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: darknesss]
      #6178620 - 11/06/13 03:36 AM


Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not;
a sense of humor to console him for what he is.
Francis Bacon


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Kfrank
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/20/08

Loc: Northern Colorado
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: barasits]
      #6179187 - 11/06/13 12:44 PM

Quote:

The posts by Guy Noir and darkness were tongue in cheek, at least to me. CN has a tradition of lighthearted banter even when the thread is serious, and without the humor it would be a duller place. If you're unsure about the poster's intent, why not give them the benefit of the doubt. In any case, there's no need for personal attacks.

Geoff




Mea Maxima Culpa.

No personal attacks were intended .

If I wanted to follow a comedy routine, I'd do so on an appropriate site.

Here, I was hoping to follow/participate in, a serious discussion of issues related to light pollution and light tresspass. IMO, it would be better not ot have to continually ask myself "Is this person trying to make a joke, or are they serious?"

Perhaps I'm in the wrong place for that to happen.


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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: darknesss]
      #6179370 - 11/06/13 02:20 PM

Quote:


How is this enforced, or what is the process to enforce these regulations?



Quote:


I suppose The Code Enforcement Officers do the enforcement, but it'd pretty obvious to the neighbour who tipped them off unless they do a regular inspection, which they'd do during the day.




I thought i mentioned this above.. maybe not..the building inspectors office gave me the contact name of a person to email if i don't get any results. he said the email will serve as the required written request and they'll go out and check it out.

of course they'll know it was me if it comes to that. who cares? I'm perfectly willing to be known as the person who didn't like their house being illuminated by 600 watts all night. (guesstimate)

in any case, so far so good.. the lights are off much more often.. not left on continually (I'm probably saving them money

last night it looked like some lights were on but didn't have that direct glare look of a bare bulb, so they may have shaded some.. in addition to keeping them off more, I'm encouraged. i will see next time its clear and I'm fully dark adapted, it should be obvious if they put some shades on some of them..

they never responded to me yet in any way and i was honestly a bit PO'd about some of the responses i got, so i have not yet done the proper thing of thanking them for any changes.. i will at some point, once i can tell theres some ongoing change. they don't strike me as nice people so I'm not looking to bend over backwards.. we might sell this place at some point as well, and since i never interact with them , other than their lights, not in any rush to talk with them unless it doesn't stay/get better.

ironically regarding their comment suggesting i put shades up.. once, a few years ago, they came to our house asking us if we'd stop our dogs from barking as they had company and it was very annoying. funny thing is that i did not suggest they get earplugs.


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bunyon
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/23/10

Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6179383 - 11/06/13 02:25 PM

Well then, release the hounds!

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barasits
sage


Reged: 06/12/11

Loc: Chicago
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: Kfrank]
      #6179559 - 11/06/13 04:09 PM

Quote:

If I wanted to follow a comedy routine, I'd do so on an appropriate site.

Here, I was hoping to follow/participate in, a serious discussion of issues related to light pollution and light tresspass. IMO, it would be better not ot have to continually ask myself "Is this person trying to make a joke, or are they serious?"

Perhaps I'm in the wrong place for that to happen.




You make a good point, Ken. For issues that we take seriously it's sometimes hard to see them treated in a tongue-in-cheek fashion. But I think that facetious comments usually serve as a release for the poster's anger and frustration at feeling helpless to effect real change. Fanciful thoughts of retribution have been going through my head for the last ten years after all diplomatically correct efforts failed to resolve my own problems with neighbors' outdoor lights. When I stop engaging in comic mental retaliation, that will be the time to start worrying.

Geoff


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StrangeDejavu
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/20/13

Loc: Florida
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: barasits]
      #6180054 - 11/06/13 09:49 PM

Regarding the 10,000 moths, owl noise and elephant roar music: I'm crackin' up.

Glad everything is working out so far. Our neighbor has 4 flood lights that they keep on at all hours of the night. At one point, I mentioned to her how they shine into my bedroom window and light up the room, even through the blinds. They were off for maybe a week, then back to the old ways. A few months later, we had two sodium street lights that had blown in the neighborhood. She was over visting with my parents the night the third one had blew out (convinced kids were throwing rocks at them, how does 3 go out in a week?). She came out back to say hi and they instantly noticed the sky. It was so dark at the time, you could just barely see the frame of the Milky Way. She asked if I could show her some things, so I obliged. When she was looking at M7, she was complaining about a light glare in the eyepiece, and when she asked what it was, I pointed at her flood lights. Boy, that moment felt so good. If she sees me setting up over the fence, she will usually leave the lights off all night now. People tend to think we're just being difficult or picky until they see first-hand how much of a difference it makes.


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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: StrangeDejavu]
      #6180469 - 11/07/13 08:04 AM

Last night I can see they have some shading and /or reduced wattage lights they've put in , and...... Left them on until late.. I'll still need my light shades...I have no idea what at will be like.. I can estimate there is perhaps 2/3 less glare now so that is good.. There's only one light that appears to be unshielded and that one isn't on much.. They have something like 6-8 lights.. 6 are on , then they flick on additional ones "as needed" (ha!) and/or motion detect.

It's true, a parking lot light from a business about 3 blocks away shines right in my eyes now that the leaves are gone., amazing how little direct glare affects viewing.

So I haven't been out yet with their new changes (clouds) .. But it looks like
A) I'll still need shades (no big deal) and
B) there appears to be MUCH less up lighting of the big 80' trees all around my yard, which the shades can't help with.. So this is good.

Also they do tend to turn them off late at night but sometimes not till after mdight. So.. As I know from reading here, it could be worse.. I've gained some improvement, once I get over being *BLEEP* I'll invite them to take a peek through the scope. Maybe . ;


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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6180678 - 11/07/13 10:09 AM

Matt, it looks like they are at least trying. I would definitely make the gesture of inviting them over to look thru your scope. It may help with them going even further (turning lights off sooner, etc.). Never know until you try.

Glad they did as much as they did! How about a new picture showing the lights now?


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FirstSight
Duke of Deneb
*****

Reged: 12/26/05

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: csa/montana]
      #6180765 - 11/07/13 10:54 AM

Quote:

Matt, it looks like they are at least trying. I would definitely make the gesture of inviting them over to look thru your scope. It may help with them going even further (turning lights off sooner, etc.). Never know until you try.

Glad they did as much as they did! How about a new picture showing the lights now?




+1

Invite 'em over not just for a viewing, invite 'em over for supper/barbeque preceding the viewing. By these people's lights, er perspective, they bent over to meet you more than halfway, even though from your perspective it's still only a bit better than half...um, moon. But flies attract honey better than vin...oh, fuggetaboutit youknowaddimean

You never know...the result might be even lead to further progress over time in reducing their inclinations toward being quite so lit-up so much of the time.

Edited by FirstSight (11/07/13 10:57 AM)


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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: FirstSight]
      #6180862 - 11/07/13 11:51 AM

Quote:

they never responded to me yet in any way and i was honestly a bit PO'd about some of the responses i got, so i have not yet done the proper thing of thanking them for any changes.. i will at some point, once i can tell theres some ongoing change. they don't strike me as nice people so I'm not looking to bend over backwards..




Obviously, the OP is uncomfortable with them, so inviting them over for a dinner might be pushing the comfort zone way too much. Small steps, such as a peek thru his scope would lay the pathway as to any larger endeavors, if possible.


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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: csa/montana]
      #6181078 - 11/07/13 01:29 PM

Yea.. A peak is reasonable.. I've been here 10 years at least and we never speak so I'm not looking to make friends , I'd be willing to share a view in hopes of opening peoples perspective a little bit though.. Even to the infidels :

I'll get a new pic although I've no idea what exposure settings the original pic was last year.. Still I'll try to get an exposure that matches the visual .


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darknesss
super member


Reged: 09/05/13

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6181252 - 11/07/13 03:10 PM

Quote:

Yea.. A peak is reasonable.. I've been here 10 years at least and we never speak so I'm not looking to make friends , I'd be willing to share a view in hopes of opening peoples perspective a little bit though.. Even to the infidels :

I'll get a new pic although I've no idea what exposure settings the original pic was last year.. Still I'll try to get an exposure that matches the visual .



Open the photo with JPEGsnoop or similar program, it'll show you the exposure. Unless you took the photo with CHDK using a script, edited in mspaint, etc.

Edited by darknesss (11/07/13 03:10 PM)


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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: darknesss]
      #6181646 - 11/07/13 06:48 PM

heres a pic from just now.. it doesn't show that they have about maybe 8 sideways pointing lights. the trees block some of them, you move a foot and you see other ones.. they apparently put in some lower wattage bulbs and now think that they are doing me a favor. they like to put them on when its daytime too. what a waste. nobody is out back, no coming or going. they are probably not even looking outside but its all lit up. this is the exact reason i called them back to let them know not to bother with lower wattage bulbs as that wasn't my issue per sey. so they obviously didn't hear me. grrr.. at he very least its about half as bright which i guess helps. i don't know if i should try one more time, invite them to view, or just give up and call the city. I feel like i should try once more before calling the city. this sucks as they are NOT going to be happy with me calling to complain after they've made some changes. i know.. tell them thanks first i guess. i don't know if i will do anything else.. ill try things like this for a while.. i have light shades up... its not as obscenely bright as before.


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darknesss
super member


Reged: 09/05/13

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6181928 - 11/07/13 10:08 PM

Wait for the snow, then build tall snow walls.

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