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General Astronomy >> Light Pollution

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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Well I did it....approached the neighbors
      #6170501 - 11/01/13 03:19 PM

finally approached my back neighbors who think they need to light it up like fenway park. they were semi agreeable to try some things like lower wattage bulbs, i called them back to explain thats not the issue, its the fact that the lights shine sideways at me(they are some nonstandard type fixure, they installed about 10 of them all over their backyard). I explained that their lights cast a shadow in our living room. they are in fact at the bottom of a hill behind our house, im about three-four stories above them which gives you an idea.. not to mention im about 1/2 an acre away. outside at night i could read by their lights.
i dealt with it all last winter muttering and using light shades.. as the leaves fell this year, my second observing, i realized i had to say something. its downright ridiculous. the conversaion had some good points : "let us see what we can do over the next few days".. whereupon i kept making the point about shining where you need it not into the sky... after a while she said things like "we all have to deal with something.." and "cant you add some living room shades?" . i explained then i do astronomy. they explained that they NEED this light. i pointed out you should be able to lightup your property as much as you want without shining it at me sideways, UP a hill, 1/2 acre away. they either didnt get it or want to. i maybe talked too much.. i can be quite a pita logical person and perhaps didnt need to argue so much as they DID say theyd look into it. I mentioned the parshield light shades of which i happened to have a couple. she seemed to hear that but im not sure. I just didnt want them to change to lower wattage as i explained that wasnt the problem exactly.

this is their place last winter. I now have some better, thicker 6' tall x 16' long canvas tarps ive hung , but just walking to get behind them is ridiculous i have to sheild my eyes its so blinding.



so i just went down and dropped the box off of two parshield shades at their house with a note to please use them, and if they need to buy some different ones id be glad to buy them.


BTW i got my shades at starrynightlights.com , and they were pretty expensive for what they were (about $50 for two shades delivered!). these neighbors have square lights of some sort, not the typical outdoor light. any recommendations on where to buy something more affordably? also starrynightlights took me literally about a MONTH to get them delivered. they were actually for a different neighbor but they finally took care of it without the need of the shields. i dont know whats going on with that business, it was my first experience there.

thanks for any tips on where to buy, or moral support. advise on how to deal effectively with people would probably be lost on me.


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bangbangexplode
member


Reged: 09/26/13

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6170571 - 11/01/13 04:06 PM

I wish you the best of luck. The only thing you can do is remain calm and polite when talking with them about the problem. If they're smart and reasonable people you might be able to reach an agreement. Unfortunately most people don't even begin to understand the issue. Hopefully you can get through to them.

I wouldn't use your astronomy hobby as a defense, at least not a main one. If the lights are dusk to dawn (on all night) you should probably say that it interferes with your sleep or something. Inviting them over to observe may help if they are inclined to that sort of thing. If they enjoy what they're seeing they may notice how much of a problem their lights are for you and that can go in your favor.

Also look up lighting ordinances in your town / city. Many have a "light trespass" ordinance of some kind.

Quote:

"cant you add some living room shades?"




This quote kind of makes me feel like they won't be very cooperative. Whenever I hear/read this sort of sentiment I always imagine myself playing extremely loud music all night long, and if people complained I would say "how about buying some earplugs?". Maybe you could say something like this to your neighbors but in a more polite manner.


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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: bangbangexplode]
      #6170597 - 11/01/13 04:21 PM

sweet. it turns out that they are in clear and full violation of what i just found for our small city:

(1) All outdoor lighting shall have full cutoff-type fixtures (See below.) Cutoffs shall shield bulbs from visibility and may consist of internal baffles or reflectors or external panels or other mechanisms.
(a) General site lighting shall not exceed 90º, the horizontal plane of bottom of lamp fixture. No uplighting is allowed; parking, security and aesthetic lighting must shine downward.
(b) Spotlights used to illuminate buildings, signs or specific site amenities/features shall be targeted on such objects so as to prevent direct uplighting. Cutoffs shall limit lighting to a forty-five-degree angle above the horizontal plane.
(c) Upward search or spotlighting of the sky for entertainment or advertising purposes is prohibited.


good to know i have some backup if we cant get something amicable going.

thanks for the response!


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csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: bangbangexplode]
      #6170598 - 11/01/13 04:22 PM

Uh, truthfully, I wish my back yard was half as dark as yours.....and, unless they take the initiative to install those shades, you're out $50. It would have been cheaper to just throw together some light screens. It doesn't sound as if they'll be very cooperative. On the other hand, maybe order about 10,000 moths from somewhere......

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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: csrlice12]
      #6170670 - 11/01/13 05:02 PM

the fact that its darker than your yard is completely irrelevant. i dont mind being out a reasonable amount of $ thats the whole point. i bought those light shields to give away in the first place to make peace. i dont want to cost people money but i dont want to be illuminated. sure you might settle for the darkness of my yard, but if you lived here and saw how ridiculous this was youd probably change your tune , since its a reasonable request not to be lit up like a baseball park with sideways lighting. . and further, now that they know about it, its just rude and ridiculous. and, totally illegal

the tarps, hardware and cabling was maybe $100 all told and it works, but they have so much uplighting it lights up the 80' tall trees all around which i cant shield. that affects my viewing as well.. its quite dark around here when those lights are off.


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bluesteel
sage


Reged: 03/24/13

Loc: ILM
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6170737 - 11/01/13 05:44 PM

Quote:

This quote kind of makes me feel like they won't be very cooperative. Whenever I hear/read this sort of sentiment I always imagine myself playing extremely loud music all night long, and if people complained I would say "how about buying some earplugs?".




I am going to have to remember this argument for sure! Best one I have heard of yet.
Wasn't there a hot sauce factory that has to install things to mitigate the smell? If the lawsuit goes through, and the smell must be mitigated, this could be the groundworks for using your own property without trespass of other people's "things", whether it be smell, light, noise, etcetera.


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bangbangexplode
member


Reged: 09/26/13

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6170741 - 11/01/13 05:46 PM

I hate to admit it, but you should have probably offered to install the shields yourself. Yes, they are your neighbor's lights and are infringing on the enjoyment of your property. Clearly you are in the right, legally. However you have to look at it from your neighbor's point of view, as wrong as it is. Clearly you two do not see eye to eye on the issue. To him/her you're going onto their property demanding that they change something which they do not want to change. I think offering to install or paying for the installation of light shields would be a nice "gesture" to them, and it may win them over if you go about it the right way.

I know how you're feeling about this. Your neighbor has illegal lighting and YOU would have to foot the bill for it. But if you want the issue resolved I think this is the quickest and friendliest way to go about it. What would you rather be without? A small amount of time/money to install the shields or a backyard that is impossible for astronomy?

If all else fails you can go through the legal system. You are very fortunate to have a legal basis for your claim. This of course depends on the mechanism of enforcement, if any.


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bangbangexplode
member


Reged: 09/26/13

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: bluesteel]
      #6170750 - 11/01/13 05:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

This quote kind of makes me feel like they won't be very cooperative. Whenever I hear/read this sort of sentiment I always imagine myself playing extremely loud music all night long, and if people complained I would say "how about buying some earplugs?".




I am going to have to remember this argument for sure! Best one I have heard of yet.
Wasn't there a hot sauce factory that has to install things to mitigate the smell? If the lawsuit goes through, and the smell must be mitigated, this could be the groundworks for using your own property without trespass of other people's "things", whether it be smell, light, noise, etcetera.




You're right. It *is* trespassing. The problem is most people are afraid of the dark from an evolutionary standpoint and see light as GOOD. In most cases extraneous light has effects that aren't readily noticeable to the general public, whereas loud music and offensive smells do.


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vsteblina
sage


Reged: 11/05/07

Loc: Wenatchee, Washington
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: bangbangexplode]
      #6170825 - 11/01/13 06:30 PM

The first step to a light pollution ordinance is to check local codes on nuisance trespass.

Our county includes NOISE, SMELL, SMOKE as trespass items, but not light. Politically, it should be relatively easy to amend nuisance codes to include light.

After all it is your property.

Thanks god, my neighbors keep their lights off at night.

Now if I can just get the city of Wenatchee to do the same!!


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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: vsteblina]
      #6170899 - 11/01/13 07:00 PM

I did offer to pay the full amount of any shades as i said already, so hopefully they will take me up on it!

i called the building inspectors office today and explained the situation that i was hoping to resolve myself.. but he did give me the name and address of who to contact via email in their dept. if i have to do that, thats all it will take for a "written" request and they'll check it out. hopefully won't get to that point, probably won't. they also said thud try keeping them off more often which I've noticed right away.. good sign.


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bangbangexplode
member


Reged: 09/26/13

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6171018 - 11/01/13 08:31 PM

Quote:

I did offer to pay the full amount of any shades as i said already, so hopefully they will take me up on it!




I'm talking about installation. They may be more inclined to cooperate with you if you either DIY or pay for them to be installed.


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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: bangbangexplode]
      #6171340 - 11/02/13 12:56 AM

right, i can do that no problem too.. next time we talk ill mention that too, its not like we're through. but i have some good news.. theyve been shutting off the lights much more instead of leaving them on all the time.. at least the last two days since i mentioned it. this might be all the solution i need. there were no clouds tonight and the neighborhood was dark! very nice.. their lights came on briefly for motion detect when someone came home but that was no problem. i will have to call and let them know that has been perfectly good, if it can stay this way.

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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6171479 - 11/02/13 06:13 AM

Follow-up by way of thanks for their kind consideration is a good and useful gesture, which should reinforce their good behaviour. You might mention that you're perfectly willing to help out with affixing shields if they would prefer to have those lights on. After all, you're not requesting that they be turned off; you don't wish to cause unnecessary disruption or deprive them of their right to employ reasonable illumination. And an invitation to come over for a look at the Moon or Jupiter could do wonders.

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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #6171745 - 11/02/13 11:12 AM

Quote:

Follow-up by way of thanks for their kind consideration is a good and useful gesture, which should reinforce their good behaviour.




+1.


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herrointment
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/12/11

Loc: North of Hwy. 64
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: csa/montana]
      #6173317 - 11/03/13 09:05 AM

An unexpected and terrific development.

Don't screw it up!


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Guy Noir
sage
*****

Reged: 04/27/05

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: herrointment]
      #6174928 - 11/04/13 06:57 AM

they asked you to buy some shade for your windows so their light does not inter your house ... mmmh ... maybe rent some stadium sized speakers, pointed in their direction, play the "coming of the valkyres" at full blast every night, all night, and when they complain ... ask them to buy some ear plugs ... or even better, rent some of these giant chicken frying search lights they use for events, and shine them at their house ... tell them, you need this to feel safe, after all, no burglar will come to your house since they risk being incinerated by these lights ... and then ask them to buy some shades or curtains ...

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darknesss
super member


Reged: 09/05/13

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: Guy Noir]
      #6176154 - 11/04/13 07:46 PM

Quote:

they asked you to buy some shade for your windows so their light does not inter your house ... mmmh ... maybe rent some stadium sized speakers, pointed in their direction, play the "coming of the valkyres" at full blast every night, all night, and when they complain ... ask them to buy some ear plugs ... or even better, rent some of these giant chicken frying search lights they use for events, and shine them at their house ... tell them, you need this to feel safe, after all, no burglar will come to your house since they risk being incinerated by these lights ... and then ask them to buy some shades or curtains ...



For the first part they'll just call the cops if someone plays music at night. Better play some annoying animal sounds like an owl.


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Kfrank
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/20/08

Loc: Northern Colorado
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: darknesss]
      #6177246 - 11/05/13 11:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

they asked you to buy some shade for your windows so their light does not inter your house ... mmmh ... maybe rent some stadium sized speakers, pointed in their direction, play the "coming of the valkyres" at full blast every night, all night, and when they complain ... ask them to buy some ear plugs ... or even better, rent some of these giant chicken frying search lights they use for events, and shine them at their house ... tell them, you need this to feel safe, after all, no burglar will come to your house since they risk being incinerated by these lights ... and then ask them to buy some shades or curtains ...



For the first part they'll just call the cops if someone plays music at night. Better play some annoying animal sounds like an owl.




Actually, it would be better to behave like a mature adult and not try to "get back at them".

Such an approach is simply CHILDISH.


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StarStuff1
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 04/01/07

Loc: South of the Mason-Dixon Line
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: Kfrank]
      #6177468 - 11/05/13 02:00 PM

I was strongly tempted to take some mirrors and mount them on a simple wooden frame and reflect the light back to a particularly annoying neighbor's unshielded lights that are on all night long about 340 nights a year. But since the wife and I are moving to an even more light polluted neighborhood next year why stir the puddin' here.

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bangbangexplode
member


Reged: 09/26/13

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: Kfrank]
      #6177542 - 11/05/13 02:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

they asked you to buy some shade for your windows so their light does not inter your house ... mmmh ... maybe rent some stadium sized speakers, pointed in their direction, play the "coming of the valkyres" at full blast every night, all night, and when they complain ... ask them to buy some ear plugs ... or even better, rent some of these giant chicken frying search lights they use for events, and shine them at their house ... tell them, you need this to feel safe, after all, no burglar will come to your house since they risk being incinerated by these lights ... and then ask them to buy some shades or curtains ...



For the first part they'll just call the cops if someone plays music at night. Better play some annoying animal sounds like an owl.




Actually, it would be better to behave like a mature adult and not try to "get back at them".

Such an approach is simply CHILDISH.




I'm pretty sure that was a joke.


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Kfrank
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/20/08

Loc: Northern Colorado
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: bangbangexplode]
      #6177624 - 11/05/13 03:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

they asked you to buy some shade for your windows so their light does not inter your house ... mmmh ... maybe rent some stadium sized speakers, pointed in their direction, play the "coming of the valkyres" at full blast every night, all night, and when they complain ... ask them to buy some ear plugs ... or even better, rent some of these giant chicken frying search lights they use for events, and shine them at their house ... tell them, you need this to feel safe, after all, no burglar will come to your house since they risk being incinerated by these lights ... and then ask them to buy some shades or curtains ...



For the first part they'll just call the cops if someone plays music at night. Better play some annoying animal sounds like an owl.




Actually, it would be better to behave like a mature adult and not try to "get back at them".

Such an approach is simply CHILDISH.




I'm pretty sure that was a joke.




I'm pretty sure you just made my case for me!


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barasits
sage


Reged: 06/12/11

Loc: Chicago
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: Kfrank]
      #6177724 - 11/05/13 04:14 PM

The posts by Guy Noir and darkness were tongue in cheek, at least to me. CN has a tradition of lighthearted banter even when the thread is serious, and without the humor it would be a duller place. If you're unsure about the poster's intent, why not give them the benefit of the doubt. In any case, there's no need for personal attacks.

Geoff


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darknesss
super member


Reged: 09/05/13

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: Kfrank]
      #6177942 - 11/05/13 06:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

they asked you to buy some shade for your windows so their light does not inter your house ... mmmh ... maybe rent some stadium sized speakers, pointed in their direction, play the "coming of the valkyres" at full blast every night, all night, and when they complain ... ask them to buy some ear plugs ... or even better, rent some of these giant chicken frying search lights they use for events, and shine them at their house ... tell them, you need this to feel safe, after all, no burglar will come to your house since they risk being incinerated by these lights ... and then ask them to buy some shades or curtains ...



For the first part they'll just call the cops if someone plays music at night. Better play some annoying animal sounds like an owl.




Actually, it would be better to behave like a mature adult and not try to "get back at them".

Such an approach is simply CHILDISH.




I suppose you're right about this approach being CHILDISH. Some people might not even notice an owl. But when your windows are trembling from elephant roars at 1 AM you might rethink attracting wild animals from whatever nearest city that has a zoo with your lights.


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barasits
sage


Reged: 06/12/11

Loc: Chicago
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: darknesss]
      #6178039 - 11/05/13 07:16 PM

I'm pretty sure that unshielded outdoor lighting attracts zombies.

Geoff


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GeneT
Ely Kid
*****

Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6178172 - 11/05/13 08:51 PM

Quote:

sweet. it turns out that they are in clear and full violation of what i just found for our small city:

(1) All outdoor lighting shall have full cutoff-type fixtures (See below.) Cutoffs shall shield bulbs from visibility and may consist of internal baffles or reflectors or external panels or other mechanisms.
(a) General site lighting shall not exceed 90º, the horizontal plane of bottom of lamp fixture. No uplighting is allowed; parking, security and aesthetic lighting must shine downward.
(b) Spotlights used to illuminate buildings, signs or specific site amenities/features shall be targeted on such objects so as to prevent direct uplighting. Cutoffs shall limit lighting to a forty-five-degree angle above the horizontal plane.
(c) Upward search or spotlighting of the sky for entertainment or advertising purposes is prohibited.
good to know i have some backup if we cant get something amicable going. thanks for the response!




How is this enforced, or what is the process to enforce these regulations?


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darknesss
super member


Reged: 09/05/13

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: GeneT]
      #6178320 - 11/05/13 10:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

sweet. it turns out that they are in clear and full violation of what i just found for our small city:

(1) All outdoor lighting shall have full cutoff-type fixtures (See below.) Cutoffs shall shield bulbs from visibility and may consist of internal baffles or reflectors or external panels or other mechanisms.
(a) General site lighting shall not exceed 90º, the horizontal plane of bottom of lamp fixture. No uplighting is allowed; parking, security and aesthetic lighting must shine downward.
(b) Spotlights used to illuminate buildings, signs or specific site amenities/features shall be targeted on such objects so as to prevent direct uplighting. Cutoffs shall limit lighting to a forty-five-degree angle above the horizontal plane.
(c) Upward search or spotlighting of the sky for entertainment or advertising purposes is prohibited.
good to know i have some backup if we cant get something amicable going. thanks for the response!




How is this enforced, or what is the process to enforce these regulations?



I suppose The Code Enforcement Officers do the enforcement, but it'd pretty obvious to the neighbour who tipped them off unless they do a regular inspection, which they'd do during the day.

Edited by darknesss (11/05/13 10:26 PM)


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Guy Noir
sage
*****

Reged: 04/27/05

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: darknesss]
      #6178620 - 11/06/13 03:36 AM


Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not;
a sense of humor to console him for what he is.
Francis Bacon


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Kfrank
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/20/08

Loc: Northern Colorado
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: barasits]
      #6179187 - 11/06/13 12:44 PM

Quote:

The posts by Guy Noir and darkness were tongue in cheek, at least to me. CN has a tradition of lighthearted banter even when the thread is serious, and without the humor it would be a duller place. If you're unsure about the poster's intent, why not give them the benefit of the doubt. In any case, there's no need for personal attacks.

Geoff




Mea Maxima Culpa.

No personal attacks were intended .

If I wanted to follow a comedy routine, I'd do so on an appropriate site.

Here, I was hoping to follow/participate in, a serious discussion of issues related to light pollution and light tresspass. IMO, it would be better not ot have to continually ask myself "Is this person trying to make a joke, or are they serious?"

Perhaps I'm in the wrong place for that to happen.


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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: darknesss]
      #6179370 - 11/06/13 02:20 PM

Quote:


How is this enforced, or what is the process to enforce these regulations?



Quote:


I suppose The Code Enforcement Officers do the enforcement, but it'd pretty obvious to the neighbour who tipped them off unless they do a regular inspection, which they'd do during the day.




I thought i mentioned this above.. maybe not..the building inspectors office gave me the contact name of a person to email if i don't get any results. he said the email will serve as the required written request and they'll go out and check it out.

of course they'll know it was me if it comes to that. who cares? I'm perfectly willing to be known as the person who didn't like their house being illuminated by 600 watts all night. (guesstimate)

in any case, so far so good.. the lights are off much more often.. not left on continually (I'm probably saving them money

last night it looked like some lights were on but didn't have that direct glare look of a bare bulb, so they may have shaded some.. in addition to keeping them off more, I'm encouraged. i will see next time its clear and I'm fully dark adapted, it should be obvious if they put some shades on some of them..

they never responded to me yet in any way and i was honestly a bit PO'd about some of the responses i got, so i have not yet done the proper thing of thanking them for any changes.. i will at some point, once i can tell theres some ongoing change. they don't strike me as nice people so I'm not looking to bend over backwards.. we might sell this place at some point as well, and since i never interact with them , other than their lights, not in any rush to talk with them unless it doesn't stay/get better.

ironically regarding their comment suggesting i put shades up.. once, a few years ago, they came to our house asking us if we'd stop our dogs from barking as they had company and it was very annoying. funny thing is that i did not suggest they get earplugs.


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bunyon
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/23/10

Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6179383 - 11/06/13 02:25 PM

Well then, release the hounds!

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barasits
sage


Reged: 06/12/11

Loc: Chicago
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: Kfrank]
      #6179559 - 11/06/13 04:09 PM

Quote:

If I wanted to follow a comedy routine, I'd do so on an appropriate site.

Here, I was hoping to follow/participate in, a serious discussion of issues related to light pollution and light tresspass. IMO, it would be better not ot have to continually ask myself "Is this person trying to make a joke, or are they serious?"

Perhaps I'm in the wrong place for that to happen.




You make a good point, Ken. For issues that we take seriously it's sometimes hard to see them treated in a tongue-in-cheek fashion. But I think that facetious comments usually serve as a release for the poster's anger and frustration at feeling helpless to effect real change. Fanciful thoughts of retribution have been going through my head for the last ten years after all diplomatically correct efforts failed to resolve my own problems with neighbors' outdoor lights. When I stop engaging in comic mental retaliation, that will be the time to start worrying.

Geoff


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StrangeDejavu
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/20/13

Loc: Florida
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: barasits]
      #6180054 - 11/06/13 09:49 PM

Regarding the 10,000 moths, owl noise and elephant roar music: I'm crackin' up.

Glad everything is working out so far. Our neighbor has 4 flood lights that they keep on at all hours of the night. At one point, I mentioned to her how they shine into my bedroom window and light up the room, even through the blinds. They were off for maybe a week, then back to the old ways. A few months later, we had two sodium street lights that had blown in the neighborhood. She was over visting with my parents the night the third one had blew out (convinced kids were throwing rocks at them, how does 3 go out in a week?). She came out back to say hi and they instantly noticed the sky. It was so dark at the time, you could just barely see the frame of the Milky Way. She asked if I could show her some things, so I obliged. When she was looking at M7, she was complaining about a light glare in the eyepiece, and when she asked what it was, I pointed at her flood lights. Boy, that moment felt so good. If she sees me setting up over the fence, she will usually leave the lights off all night now. People tend to think we're just being difficult or picky until they see first-hand how much of a difference it makes.


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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: StrangeDejavu]
      #6180469 - 11/07/13 08:04 AM

Last night I can see they have some shading and /or reduced wattage lights they've put in , and...... Left them on until late.. I'll still need my light shades...I have no idea what at will be like.. I can estimate there is perhaps 2/3 less glare now so that is good.. There's only one light that appears to be unshielded and that one isn't on much.. They have something like 6-8 lights.. 6 are on , then they flick on additional ones "as needed" (ha!) and/or motion detect.

It's true, a parking lot light from a business about 3 blocks away shines right in my eyes now that the leaves are gone., amazing how little direct glare affects viewing.

So I haven't been out yet with their new changes (clouds) .. But it looks like
A) I'll still need shades (no big deal) and
B) there appears to be MUCH less up lighting of the big 80' trees all around my yard, which the shades can't help with.. So this is good.

Also they do tend to turn them off late at night but sometimes not till after mdight. So.. As I know from reading here, it could be worse.. I've gained some improvement, once I get over being *BLEEP* I'll invite them to take a peek through the scope. Maybe . ;


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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6180678 - 11/07/13 10:09 AM

Matt, it looks like they are at least trying. I would definitely make the gesture of inviting them over to look thru your scope. It may help with them going even further (turning lights off sooner, etc.). Never know until you try.

Glad they did as much as they did! How about a new picture showing the lights now?


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FirstSight
Duke of Deneb
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Reged: 12/26/05

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: csa/montana]
      #6180765 - 11/07/13 10:54 AM

Quote:

Matt, it looks like they are at least trying. I would definitely make the gesture of inviting them over to look thru your scope. It may help with them going even further (turning lights off sooner, etc.). Never know until you try.

Glad they did as much as they did! How about a new picture showing the lights now?




+1

Invite 'em over not just for a viewing, invite 'em over for supper/barbeque preceding the viewing. By these people's lights, er perspective, they bent over to meet you more than halfway, even though from your perspective it's still only a bit better than half...um, moon. But flies attract honey better than vin...oh, fuggetaboutit youknowaddimean

You never know...the result might be even lead to further progress over time in reducing their inclinations toward being quite so lit-up so much of the time.

Edited by FirstSight (11/07/13 10:57 AM)


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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: FirstSight]
      #6180862 - 11/07/13 11:51 AM

Quote:

they never responded to me yet in any way and i was honestly a bit PO'd about some of the responses i got, so i have not yet done the proper thing of thanking them for any changes.. i will at some point, once i can tell theres some ongoing change. they don't strike me as nice people so I'm not looking to bend over backwards..




Obviously, the OP is uncomfortable with them, so inviting them over for a dinner might be pushing the comfort zone way too much. Small steps, such as a peek thru his scope would lay the pathway as to any larger endeavors, if possible.


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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: csa/montana]
      #6181078 - 11/07/13 01:29 PM

Yea.. A peak is reasonable.. I've been here 10 years at least and we never speak so I'm not looking to make friends , I'd be willing to share a view in hopes of opening peoples perspective a little bit though.. Even to the infidels :

I'll get a new pic although I've no idea what exposure settings the original pic was last year.. Still I'll try to get an exposure that matches the visual .


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darknesss
super member


Reged: 09/05/13

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6181252 - 11/07/13 03:10 PM

Quote:

Yea.. A peak is reasonable.. I've been here 10 years at least and we never speak so I'm not looking to make friends , I'd be willing to share a view in hopes of opening peoples perspective a little bit though.. Even to the infidels :

I'll get a new pic although I've no idea what exposure settings the original pic was last year.. Still I'll try to get an exposure that matches the visual .



Open the photo with JPEGsnoop or similar program, it'll show you the exposure. Unless you took the photo with CHDK using a script, edited in mspaint, etc.

Edited by darknesss (11/07/13 03:10 PM)


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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: darknesss]
      #6181646 - 11/07/13 06:48 PM

heres a pic from just now.. it doesn't show that they have about maybe 8 sideways pointing lights. the trees block some of them, you move a foot and you see other ones.. they apparently put in some lower wattage bulbs and now think that they are doing me a favor. they like to put them on when its daytime too. what a waste. nobody is out back, no coming or going. they are probably not even looking outside but its all lit up. this is the exact reason i called them back to let them know not to bother with lower wattage bulbs as that wasn't my issue per sey. so they obviously didn't hear me. grrr.. at he very least its about half as bright which i guess helps. i don't know if i should try one more time, invite them to view, or just give up and call the city. I feel like i should try once more before calling the city. this sucks as they are NOT going to be happy with me calling to complain after they've made some changes. i know.. tell them thanks first i guess. i don't know if i will do anything else.. ill try things like this for a while.. i have light shades up... its not as obscenely bright as before.


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darknesss
super member


Reged: 09/05/13

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6181928 - 11/07/13 10:08 PM

Wait for the snow, then build tall snow walls.

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rnc39560
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/23/13

Loc: MS coast
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: darknesss]
      #6183033 - 11/08/13 02:07 PM

If you're uncomfortable having them over perhaps a bottle of wine or something as a token of appreciation would suffice. Delivered in person and a thank you have a nice day. Then they get the thanks and y'all don't have to socialize. Although a peek at a "wow" factor object could help them understand why.

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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: rnc39560]
      #6183044 - 11/08/13 02:11 PM

Quote:

If you're uncomfortable having them over perhaps a bottle of wine or something as a token of appreciation would suffice. Delivered in person and a thank you have a nice day. Then they get the thanks and y'all don't have to socialize. Although a peek at a "wow" factor object could help them understand why.




+1 on just giving a "token of appreciation". I think this is the best idea yet! This would eliminate any uncomfortable feelings on both sides, by "getting together".


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rnc39560
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/23/13

Loc: MS coast
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: csa/montana]
      #6183338 - 11/08/13 05:32 PM

Thanks Carol. Let us know what happens Mitch.

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FirstSight
Duke of Deneb
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Reged: 12/26/05

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: csa/montana]
      #6183880 - 11/08/13 11:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If you're uncomfortable having them over perhaps a bottle of wine or something as a token of appreciation would suffice. Delivered in person and a thank you have a nice day. Then they get the thanks and y'all don't have to socialize. Although a peek at a "wow" factor object could help them understand why.




+1 on just giving a "token of appreciation". I think this is the best idea yet! This would eliminate any uncomfortable feelings on both sides, by "getting together".




I agree on more careful thought. Some people, some situations, the invite path works, others it's too awkward for one or both sides. A pie or bottle of wine OTOH as a token of appreciation is always a good gesture that helps lay groundwork for continuing good neighborliness over time, even if you never really become friends with them more than to wave hi and have brief, polite chats in passing.


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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: FirstSight]
      #6185194 - 11/09/13 06:09 PM

Thanks for all the support, I know many of. Us share the frustrations around this topic.

My plan is to leave a voicemail thanking them for their efforts and to invite them for some viewing so they can see what I'm doing. Even if I don't like them I figure it's an opportunity to share the cosmos , and who knows it might insure some appreciation for the night sky. Not that I'll hold my breath but I'd hope they would enjoy some looking at the least and appreciate the gesture.


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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6185220 - 11/09/13 06:27 PM

Let us know how it goes.

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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: csa/montana]
      #6193286 - 11/13/13 06:52 PM

the other day i found that they returned the light shield i dropped off to them, (left it on my step),still in the same clear plastic bag i left it in with my note offering to buy more if needed. they never opened it to read the note it looks like. I'm a bit disgusted and don't really feel like following up at the moment. at least the lights are dimmer now, if not blocked. it was a lousy experience but i made some progress. once I'm not so *BLEEP* ill try offering a scope view. maybe. unfortunately i don't think i enlightened them to the issues of dark skies one little bit. the scope view would be good for that, if i can get over my irritation. i know what i should do. don't know if i will.

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rnc39560
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/23/13

Loc: MS coast
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6193362 - 11/13/13 07:34 PM

Wow.... sorry to hear that. Well, at least its still dimmer!

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rnc39560
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/23/13

Loc: MS coast
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: rnc39560]
      #6193374 - 11/13/13 07:38 PM

I do understand its bothersome though Matt. Keep us posted.

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herrointment
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/12/11

Loc: North of Hwy. 64
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: rnc39560]
      #6193437 - 11/13/13 08:20 PM

Good luck guy.

It's a tough one.


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darknesss
super member


Reged: 09/05/13

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6193707 - 11/13/13 11:01 PM

Quote:

the other day i found that they returned the light shield i dropped off to them, (left it on my step),still in the same clear plastic bag i left it in with my note offering to buy more if needed. they never opened it to read the note it looks like. I'm a bit disgusted and don't really feel like following up at the moment. at least the lights are dimmer now, if not blocked. it was a lousy experience but i made some progress. once I'm not so *BLEEP* ill try offering a scope view. maybe. unfortunately i don't think i enlightened them to the issues of dark skies one little bit. the scope view would be good for that, if i can get over my irritation. i know what i should do. don't know if i will.




They'll probably be very mad if you drop off the light shield to them again.


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leonalex12
member


Reged: 09/08/13

Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: darknesss]
      #6196063 - 11/15/13 08:17 AM

I would kill to see the look on their face when they see it on their doorstep again!

Or maybe have it delivered by UPS.


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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: leonalex12]
      #6196267 - 11/15/13 10:26 AM

Quote:

I would kill to see the look on their face when they see it on their doorstep again!

Or maybe have it delivered by UPS.



That made my morning


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csrlice12
Postmaster
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Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Well I did it....approached the neighbors new [Re: lamplight]
      #6209704 - 11/22/13 03:23 PM

ooops, sorry, thought I was in the chainsaw as astronomy equipment forum.......

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