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Equipment Discussions >> Reflectors

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zeldaboy101
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 03/13/04

Loc: Maryland

Black dobs in the dark?
#3891867 - 06/28/10 09:50 PM

I've never owned a black scope, always grey or blue, and the tripod legs are always stainless steel or bright orange so they're easy to see at night. One idea for my atm dob is to possibly go 100% black on EVERYTHING. Black moonlite focuser, black piano lacquer, everything just as dark of a black as possible.

Now the question is, for those of you that do own black scopes, do you find it hard to see the scope under super dark skies?

It seems like the grass is super bright under dark skies so you could see a black outline, but i'm not sure if black is a terrible terrible idea when some bright colored scope may be a lot easier to pick out at night?

The other issue would be black getting hot in the sun, sure i'd have a cover over it, but even if it is uncovered while setting it up or for some other reason it'd get hotter faster. I'll have cooling fans, but maybe black in terms of functionality is just a bad idea?

I could always add something to accentuate the black to see the parts, but a 100% black anondized/lacquered scope sounds pretty awesome.

Thanks,
Jeremy

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cheapersleeper
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 01/22/10

Loc: Sachse TX

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: zeldaboy101]
#3891882 - 06/28/10 09:56 PM

The only way I would think that is a good idea is if you observed wearing a black hooded robe and carried a scythe.

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Ouranos
professor emeritus

Reged: 11/07/06

Loc: Illinois

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: zeldaboy101]
#3891888 - 06/28/10 09:59 PM

Jeremy,it depends on how much light there is at your viewing site, I suppose, but I can make out my XT10. And, I have my red headlight on and am looking at charts, searching for dropped eyepiece caps, and have a "sense" of where the scope is. Putting it another way, I have never bumped into the scope b/c I could not see it. I love the black scope - but it does show hand prints, etc. And, I wax it.
Paul

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zeldaboy101
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 03/13/04

Loc: Maryland

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: cheapersleeper]
#3891907 - 06/28/10 10:09 PM

Quote:

The only way I would think that is a good idea is if you observed wearing a black hooded robe and carried a scythe.

It'd be perfect for halloween viewing!!!

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zeldaboy101
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 03/13/04

Loc: Maryland

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: Ouranos]
#3891911 - 06/28/10 10:11 PM

Quote:

Jeremy,it depends on how much light there is at your viewing site, I suppose, but I can make out my XT10. And, I have my red headlight on and am looking at charts, searching for dropped eyepiece caps, and have a "sense" of where the scope is. Putting it another way, I have never bumped into the scope b/c I could not see it. I love the black scope - but it does show hand prints, etc. And, I wax it.
Paul

Well it's not JUST me, but when i'm at star parties I don't want the people i'm around to accidentally bump into it. At the really really dark sites it may not be a problem the more I think about it, because the stars were so bright that I was able to walk around without even a flashlight on.

The issue may be more at the semi dark skies where the ground is still kinda dark looking because there isn't quite as much starlight shining.

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gnowellsct
Postmaster

Reged: 06/24/09

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: zeldaboy101]
#3891963 - 06/28/10 10:41 PM

Well personally I think that black is a mistake: heating in the day is not minor.

I love the ATS pier because it is easy to see. Ditto the Berlebach. The Losmandy tripod has tripped its share of people.

That said, between the dew heater and power cord and the paddle there are a variety of lights on the device that help people steer clear.

My black observing chair is a disaster even though I put about two dozen of white pieces of reflective white tape on it. Peole just barge into it. The white observing chairs I've seen are much better.

Greg N

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azskies
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 04/29/07

Loc: Prescott, AZ

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: gnowellsct]
#3892025 - 06/28/10 11:09 PM

Several folks in the local astronomy club put red rope lights around their base or on the tripod legs.

Jeff

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cavefrog
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 11/11/08

Loc: loozyanna

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: azskies]
#3892051 - 06/28/10 11:24 PM

I got this... to say about that! somewhere in my first readings on this subject,(i dont think it was here) I came across the the teachings that a black scope cooled faster than a white one. I aint sayin its true, just sayin I read it sumeres.

Theo

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d.sireci51
Arachnoid

Reged: 11/19/09

Loc: The Tholian Web [S. Wisconsin]

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: zeldaboy101]
#3892128 - 06/29/10 12:21 AM

I like the appearance of an all Black scope more than White or other colors. I use mostly black, [Discovery and Zhumell]. The black does seam to collect dust and finger prints better too. In the dark, I have no problem using an sense of location, finding it. In dark/dark sites the Stars/Planets/ Moon all lend enough light to see the black
thing. I just cant find any major problem to say dont use it. Black or white? I'll lean more toward Black. Just looks COOL MAN COOL!!!!

D.Sireci

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dave b
Post Laureate

Reged: 05/10/05

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: d.sireci51]
#3892215 - 06/29/10 01:38 AM

i guess the rest of the scope could be any color, but the UTA (or entire area surrounding the focuser) should be flat black.

that way you dont see all the glare, especially if you leave your unused eye open.

i often see people with white scopes trying to completely cup their hands around the eyepiece so they dont see all that reflection

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Dain
Boogie Man

Reged: 03/24/05

Loc: ADK Mountains/NGC 4565

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: dave b]
#3892272 - 06/29/10 02:47 AM

I have an all black scope ( 8-inch dob ) and I have no problems seeing it even under dark skies once I become dark adapted. Besides, we use red lights too!

I use an old sonotube so the heating isn't as much of an issue as the metal tubes, which is one of the primary reasons I got rid of an older 8-inch metal tube dob I owned.

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zeldaboy101
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 03/13/04

Loc: Maryland

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: cavefrog]
#3892426 - 06/29/10 06:59 AM

Quote:

I got this... to say about that! somewhere in my first readings on this subject,(i dont think it was here) I came across the the teachings that a black scope cooled faster than a white one. I aint sayin its true, just sayin I read it sumeres.

Theo

I swear i've heard this too, but it doesn't seem like that'd be right. A dark road heats up more than concrete and stays warmer for longer into the night, why would a scope be different?

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zeldaboy101
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 03/13/04

Loc: Maryland

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: dave b]
#3892430 - 06/29/10 06:59 AM

Quote:

i guess the rest of the scope could be any color, but the UTA (or entire area surrounding the focuser) should be flat black.

that way you dont see all the glare, especially if you leave your unused eye open.

i often see people with white scopes trying to completely cup their hands around the eyepiece so they dont see all that reflection

Good point! I started using an eye patch to cover the observing eye when looking at charts with a dim light and when i'm observing it covers the non observing eye, it's been a huge help.

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zeldaboy101
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 03/13/04

Loc: Maryland

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: azskies]
#3892434 - 06/29/10 07:01 AM

Quote:

Several folks in the local astronomy club put red rope lights around their base or on the tripod legs.

Jeff

I've considered this but even the dimmest red light bothers your night vision to a tiny extent, I won't even use a red light unless my observing eye is covered by an eye patch as I have noticed it hurt my night vision. Maybe is a super dim glow was done and aimed towards the ground only it could work...sort of eerie looking with a deep red glow underneath the scope though!

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zeldaboy101
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 03/13/04

Loc: Maryland

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: zeldaboy101]
#3892438 - 06/29/10 07:05 AM

When it comes to black vs white scopes I do like black ones more, and while I may have a good idea where the scope is, i'm mostly worried about other people hitting into the scope base and knocking it off target.

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Dick Jacobson
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 12/22/06

Loc: Plymouth, Minnesota, USA

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: zeldaboy101]
#3892543 - 06/29/10 08:48 AM

It's always seemed to me that black objects (eyepieces, binoculars, secondary mirror mounts) get cold very fast at night and collect a lot of dew/frost. Light colored or metallic objects do not seem to get as cold and are therefore preferred. I think it has more to do with infrared emissivity. The area around your eyepiece should be black to enhance both-eyes-open viewing, but everything else should be light colored.

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Tim L
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 12/17/08

Loc: Missouri

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: Dick Jacobson]
#3892731 - 06/29/10 10:27 AM

Mine's all black, never tripped over it.

I had also heard somewhere way back when that black was a better color, but I can't remember why (ambient light reflections, cooling issues, etc.)?

I like mine and have never had a problem that I could trace to its color!

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Markovich
professor emeritus

Reged: 05/22/07

Loc: Central Ohio

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: Tim L]
#3892743 - 06/29/10 10:33 AM

Black body radiation....
Ive owned a Celestron Super C8 since 1984 ( it's all black) and while it will heat up VERY quickly in daylight, it also cools down very fast in the dark. Because its made out of metal, it is shiny and easy to see in the dark. I did have some blinking LED lights for the tripod feet that worked great.

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George N
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: Markovich]
#3892896 - 06/29/10 11:53 AM

I have a friend who puts small pieces of glow-in-the-dark tape on his scopes, observing chair, etc. While the glow goes away after an hour or two, it still helps. He went to this solution after getting hurt running into another person’s observing chair.

Other friends (and sometimes I do too) use those spaghetti-string glow things kids put around their necks. You crack them and they glow for hours. We use red ones and just thru a couple on the ground around the base of the scope. I sometimes put one on the side of my Obsession 20’s UTA, on the side opposite from the focuser of course. They are dim enough to not mess with people’s night vision. We also fine them good for very dark tents at star parties. If it was not for a red glow stick, I would have fallen over one several times at CSSP earlier this month.

As for heating: I cover my scopes, black or white, with a white or silver cover during the daytime. That really helps with cooling, but the cover has to be able to breath from the bottom.

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maknewtnut
Member

Reged: 10/08/06

Re: Black dobs in the dark? new

new

[Re: zeldaboy101]
#3892920 - 06/29/10 12:07 PM

To be brutally honest, I've noted a trend when it comes to folks bumbing into equipment at night. From by observations it's almost always to folks that keep on turning on their flashlights, and thereby throwing away whatever dark adaptation they had developed. For most folks, it's close to uncanny how well one can see, even in the darket of locations, if they restrict the use of artifical light.

That means even those blinky lights may be considered counterproductive to those seeking total darkness.

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