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Equipment Discussions >> Reflectors

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Ira
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Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16
      #4887955 - 10/30/11 12:47 AM

The UL16, an ultralight 16" f4.5 compact Dob with an introductory price of $1995!? Heaviest component, the mirror box with mirror, weighs just 25 lbs. What's not to like? Or is this too good to be true? Found out about this scope in the vendors forum on Cloudy Nights.

http://hubbleoptics.com/UL16.html

/Ira

Edited by Ira (10/30/11 02:22 AM)


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Astrojensen
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Ira]
      #4888048 - 10/30/11 03:25 AM

I know I am extremely tempted... But I don't have the money!

The only issue I can see with it straight away is the lack of baffling opposite the focuser. Otherwise, a great amount of thought and consideration seem to have gone into its construction. I guess it won't be long before someone jumps at it, given the low, low price.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Traveler
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Reged: 08/19/07

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #4888057 - 10/30/11 04:02 AM

Looks fine and the price is great. I don't see any dsc's?

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Ira
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Traveler]
      #4888072 - 10/30/11 04:38 AM

I'm on the fence. Mostly a financial consideration. I just bought a moby expensive 5" APO refractor. Now this!

/Ira


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Traveler
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Ira]
      #4888099 - 10/30/11 05:29 AM

I saw that just the structure of a 14 inch is just 1.1K!
How do they do that?


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sixela
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #4888102 - 10/30/11 05:33 AM

Quote:


The only issue I can see with it straight away is the lack of baffling opposite the focuser.




Like all these scopes, it simply needs a light shield and/or a shroud.


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Ira
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Traveler]
      #4888106 - 10/30/11 05:35 AM

Quote:

I saw that just the structure of a 14 inch is just 1.1K!
How do they do that?




So, that's why I'm wondering if the whole thing is too good to be true? Or maybe someone has finally figured out how to bring hi-tec mass produced engineering and manufacturing to the Dob world. After all, why should a little metal and glass cost an arm and a leg these days?

/Ira


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Ira
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: sixela]
      #4888107 - 10/30/11 05:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:


The only issue I can see with it straight away is the lack of baffling opposite the focuser.




Like all these scopes, it simply needs a light shield and/or a shroud.




You can buy a shroud for $85, but it does not extend up to the eyepiece holder, which sits in front of the top connector ring

/Ira


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Traveler
Pooh-Bah


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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Ira]
      #4888114 - 10/30/11 05:45 AM

mmm, a little weekend engineering and you can fix that imo.

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nictorax
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Ira]
      #4888187 - 10/30/11 07:57 AM

It does seem interesting.

Here is a link to a previous thread talking a little bit about this structure (not necessarily the 16" structure).

regards,
Kevin


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SeattleScott
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Reged: 10/14/11

Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: nictorax]
      #4888390 - 10/30/11 11:22 AM

Ok, but how good are the optics? Despite the unconventional hole in the mirror, aren't these still machine-ground mass produced mirrors? A 16" Lightbridge may have just as good of optics for slightly less dough. Of course it may be well worth the small price difference during this promotion to get the lighter weight UL16. It does seem like a great value at the introductory price, but a lot of people in the 16" Dob market are looking for a premium mirror. Once the introductory pricing ends and it goes up to $3k, will Hubble be competing against Meade or against Obsession?

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nictorax
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: SeattleScott]
      #4888443 - 10/30/11 11:53 AM

I agree with you regarding the optics. There seem to be diverging reports. Although, lately reports have been rather positive.

I just find the structure itself interesting. Someone who already has a classic dobsonian, and wishes to go towards an UL, might be interested in buying just the structure and then use his or her mirror, secondary etc...


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thinairart
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Reged: 11/18/09

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: nictorax]
      #4888589 - 10/30/11 01:26 PM

Quote:

Once the introductory pricing ends and it goes up to $3k, will Hubble be competing against Meade or against Obsession?




If anything the price will go down, not up. HO's mirrors for instance are 3x as expensive on their website, compared to what HO sells them for through their eBay store. I can't imagine as a discount vendor they would ever price thier products to compete with a premium vendor like Obsession. As for the optics, I have a 14" and have been very happy with the mirror.


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obsessionstar
sage


Reged: 11/18/09

Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: thinairart]
      #4888595 - 10/30/11 01:32 PM

Those scopes have been offered for a year and not one CN member has had the guts to order one yet?

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JimMo
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Reged: 01/08/07

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: SeattleScott]
      #4888649 - 10/30/11 02:16 PM

Quote:

Despite the unconventional hole in the mirror, aren't these still machine-ground mass produced mirrors?




Holy collimation, Batman, how would line up the mirrors if there's no center spot?


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obsessionstar
sage


Reged: 11/18/09

Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: JimMo]
      #4888697 - 10/30/11 02:37 PM

Holographic laser

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johnnyha
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: obsessionstar]
      #4888923 - 10/30/11 04:48 PM

Cork plug?

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Pinbout
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Ira]
      #4889119 - 10/30/11 06:56 PM

Quote:

The UL16, an ultralight 16" f4.5 compact Dob with an introductory price of $1995!? Heaviest component, the mirror box with mirror, weighs just 25 lbs. What's not to like? Or is this too good to be true? Found out about this scope in the vendors forum on Cloudy Nights.

http://hubbleoptics.com/UL16.html

/Ira




I don't know about this scope but their other ultra lights, the ones with the ugly square frame before the mirror cell, I played with at NEAF 10 [they made them for Orion] and thought it wasn't stiff enough. It definitely wasn't buttery smooth. Very disappointed.


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94bamf
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Pinbout]
      #4889378 - 10/30/11 09:45 PM

It doesn't appear the mirrors for sale on their Ebay store have holes in the middle. I am thinking their Newtonian mirrors don't have holes in the middle, maybe some of the other types do?

Ken


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cheapersleeper
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: 94bamf]
      #4889464 - 10/30/11 10:31 PM

No idea where the hole thing is coming from...

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Pinbout
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: obsessionstar]
      #4889465 - 10/30/11 10:31 PM

Quote:

Those scopes have been offered for a year and not one CN member has had the guts to order one yet?




If they don't have salesreps at star parties showing them off why would anyone spend that much money without seeing one in action. Not even showing up to NEAF.


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Ira
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Pinbout]
      #4889700 - 10/31/11 02:29 AM

The mirrors on their web sites have no hole in the middle. Just a green dot. They do make mirrors for maks and cats. Maybe that's where the "hole" idea comes from. So far no great insights on this scope.

/Ira


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sopticals
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Reged: 03/28/10

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Ira]
      #4890686 - 10/31/11 05:19 PM

I have over the last 2 years bought 3 mirrors from HO and none have holes or green dots. A center mark would be useful.

I would like to comment on the quality of the current HO mirror I am using. HO claims the following specs: Strehl 0.997, 1/25.4 PV. 1/111 RMS. The mirror is a 14" sandwich.Even if the RMS and wave front specs are even half as good as claimed this would be an excellent mirror.I am very pleased with its performance.Image stays firm at all mags.In my view great value for money spent.


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Wozzel
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: sopticals]
      #4890840 - 10/31/11 07:33 PM

Someone buy and make report the scope. Too long someone want.

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roverich
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Reged: 12/11/10

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Wozzel]
      #4890924 - 10/31/11 08:22 PM

I was thinking about buying one of the UL16 scopes ..I was reading there web page and found out there located in northern Va. (falls church) area , so i would want to go and check one out before i spent that kind of cash ..3000 is a lot of money for me ...But after further investigation i see there stuff comes out of Hong Kong ..Not that that is a bad thing ...If they are indeed located in No.Va. i will check them out for sure ...

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GeneT
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Ira]
      #4891197 - 10/31/11 11:09 PM

I would look at what kind of light baffle is used for the upper tube assembly. I see these type of telescopes as filling a niche for some observers. However, I believe that a traditional Dob is a much better all around telescope. A good 16 inch truss tube Dob will be reasonably portable, but operate more smoothly, have better baffling, and be more stable. If these guys ever make a traditional Dob, I would definitely be interested.

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sixela
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: GeneT]
      #4891441 - 11/01/11 05:42 AM

You just have to make your own light shield; it's hardly rocket science.

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lunar
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #4891802 - 11/01/11 11:36 AM

They have striking similarities in appearence to the Orion Ultra Compact telescope line...if it's still offered. From what I remember they had a similiar structure.

Clear skies,
Brandon Doyle


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Ira
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: roverich]
      #4891823 - 11/01/11 11:44 AM

Quote:

I was thinking about buying one of the UL16 scopes ..I was reading there web page and found out there located in northern Va. (falls church) area , so i would want to go and check one out before i spent that kind of cash ..3000 is a lot of money for me ...But after further investigation i see there stuff comes out of Hong Kong ..Not that that is a bad thing ...If they are indeed located in No.Va. i will check them out for sure ...




The introductory price is just $1995. Pretty cheap for a scope of this class.

/Ira


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Pinbout
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: lunar]
      #4891943 - 11/01/11 01:00 PM

Quote:

They have striking similarities in appearence to the Orion Ultra Compact telescope line...if it's still offered. From what I remember they had a similiar structure.

Clear skies,
Brandon Doyle




HO made them for Orion.


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thinairart
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Reged: 11/18/09

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Pinbout]
      #4891953 - 11/01/11 01:06 PM

HO's operations are based out of Hong Kong, but they have an office of some kind in Virginia that they sometimes ship mirrors from through their eBay store. If you are close to that office that would be a great idea to see if you could take a look at a UL16 first hand. Just write Tong @ Hubble Optics and ask, he is a nice guy and actually wrote me directly recently recommending what kind of lateral support to use for my 14" ATM scope that was built around an HO sandwich mirror.

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Ira
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: thinairart]
      #4892501 - 11/01/11 06:14 PM

What was the quality of that sandwich mirror?

/Ira


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Mike Selz
sage
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Ira]
      #4892943 - 11/01/11 10:42 PM

I wonder if this Ultra light can be EQ mounted...or if there is an adapter that can achieve this. If so you can have a 16" for use visually on a CGE, or for photographic use on a CGE PRO...now that'd sure be something...(given the total weight without the rocker box I believe is just 52lbs)

Edited by Mike Selz (11/01/11 10:53 PM)


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GeneT
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: sixela]
      #4894327 - 11/02/11 05:53 PM

Quote:

You just have to make your own light shield; it's hardly rocket science.




I once owned an 18 inch Ultra Compact and there's a lot more to it than just a tweak here and a tweak there. By the time I made all my mods, to include the light shield, solid side bearings, a 1/4 inch alumimum ring under the UTA ring that came with the telescope (to stiffen up the ring so the telescope would hold collimation), and so on--I was out about $600 and still did not have the telescope I wanted. The ultra lights do fill a niche, but my main point in this discussion is that the traditional Dob is a far better telescope from the get go, and needs far fewer modifications. None of the mods I made were rocket science--they were easy to do-- and they were expensive.


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sixela
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: GeneT]
      #4894373 - 11/02/11 06:14 PM

Well, we know the price of the shroud and we know a light shield is not expensive.

There may be other things wrong with the scope, but that's just idle speculation until someone reports them.


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davidpitre
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: sixela]
      #4894735 - 11/02/11 09:43 PM

A light shield can be made for nothing. If you are broke, cardboard and flat black paint work as well as anything. For the price of a cheap dinner, a nice one can be mad of ABS.

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GeneT
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: sixela]
      #4894906 - 11/02/11 11:15 PM

Quote:

Well, we know the price of the shroud and we know a light shield is not expensive.

There may be other things wrong with the scope, but that's just idle speculation until someone reports them.




Quote:

A light shield can be made for nothing. If you are broke, cardboard and flat black paint work as well as anything. For the price of a cheap dinner, a nice one can be mad of ABS.




You both are missing my point. A lot of people are buying these ultra compact or ultra lite telescopes not realizing their short comings. They are great for getting a lot of telescope into a small vehicle, for shipping ahead to a destination, and so on. The modifications a lot of us have had to make to these telescopes have nothing to do with cardboard and flat paint. The issues are not just building and affixing a light shield. My point in raising some issues with these ultra light telescopes is to do a careful side by side, point by point comparison to a traditional Dob before buying one of these telescopes. The issue is not 'problems' with these telescopes, but performance when compared to their traditional Dob cousins. The performance issues do not involve the optics. Obsession puts OMI and Galaxy in both their traditional and ultra compact Dobs. The issue is overall system performance to include balance, holding position, motions in both axis, light leakage, stiction, and other issues. I am not recommending to avoid purchasing these telescopes. I am recommending to think through how you would use one of these telescopes. Portability is the one area in which these telescopes shine. However, you can get good portability with some of the newer traditional Dob designs offered by Teeter, Webster, Starstructure, Starmaster, and Obsession telescopes. Careful research may lead some to conclude that a better viewing experience may be achieved by giving up a little in portability to gain significantly in the overall operational aspects of the telescope. I have owned both an 18 inch Ultra Compact and a 20 inch Classical Obsession. There is no comparison in the operational aspects of both telescopes. It is not that the ultra compact is a bad telescope. It is just that the classical Obsession is so much better designed from top to bottom, and is so much more pleasurable to use. When I bought an ultra compact, I thought I would get most of the beneficial viewing aspects of the traditional Dob, just in a smaller package. It wasn't so. I am not reporting on some speculative aspects in these telescope comparisons. I am giving my opinions (yes, these are just my opinions) based on personal, side by side comparisons.


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Mary B
Vendor - Echo Astronomy and Electronics
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Reged: 05/21/10

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: GeneT]
      #4895087 - 11/03/11 02:06 AM

Until someone actually uses one you can't make comments about performance. It is an unknown.

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sixela
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: GeneT]
      #4895185 - 11/03/11 06:25 AM

Quote:


You both are missing my point. A lot of people are buying these ultra compact or ultra lite telescopes not realizing their short comings.



You're missing mine. There are more compact scopes that "classic" Obsessions and some UltraCompacts that have none of these shortcomings.

To say that these scopes all have "the" shortcomings of "UltraCompacts" is to overgeneralise, and to say that all people who buy UltraCompacts "do not realise" what they're doing is simply untrue.

I think that if you were living in Europe you'd have a different view on things. The Obsession Dob design has been a lot less dominant around here, and there are fine example of not-Obession-clones that are really fine scopes.

Quote:

The modifications a lot of us have had to make to these telescopes



Again, if you have to make modifications beyond a light shield (which is a necessary item on these scopes, then you had a less than perfect UltraCompact, not just an UltraCompact.


Quote:

I am giving my opinions (yes, these are just my opinions) based on personal, side by side comparisons.



But you are talking about your personal experience with a scope that id different from the ones in this thread, and certainly different from the really best UltraCompacts (and no, The Obsession UC isn't the best UltraCompact, just if someone would like to bring that up as an example).

You cannot diss a scope because of the ills of another one that simply resembles it without having actually checked that it has the same ills.

It's certainly missing a light shield, that is obvious, but that is also easy to fix.

What other ills do you ascribe to the design are you sure is present on these scopes and why?

If you have a skeptical mind you're wary of your own experiences and the perceptional biases they might cause. Perhaps they're justified, but perhaps they're not. To know if they're not, you need to dig deeper.

Perhaps these scopes aren't that good --certainly, the fact that HO made the structurally weak Orion scopes does not bode well-- but perhaps Hubble Optics are able to learn from their mistakes and these are better. They certainly showed they're able to learn from their mistakes if you look at the quality of their mirrors over the years.

We simply don't know, and I don't think that we need to pretend that we do.


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Pinbout
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: sixela]
      #4895219 - 11/03/11 07:00 AM

Quote:

the fact that HO made the structurally weak Orion scopes does not bode well-- but perhaps Hubble Optics are able to learn from their mistakes and these are better. They certainly showed they're able to learn from their mistakes if you look at the quality of their mirrors over the years.






the older scope's lazy suzy az bearing felt horrible and it looks like they still have it. It seems to me, that the bearing maybe twisting 'cause it's doesn't have enough support. I would want more structure down there.

At least the poles go directly to the cell's frame. The older scope was trying to do to many things. Is it a dob or a frame to mount to a GEM? I think that's one reason it suffered.

Why are they using 6063 t3 instead of 6061 t5 for the poles?

They have a 6 point cell. They use to suggest using an 18 point cell, but I guess they've since changed that in their mirror write-ups on ebay. They also suggest using a sling but it's hard to see the cell on their website pictures. I would like to see the sling strapped across the sandwich mirror.


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sixela
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Pinbout]
      #4895243 - 11/03/11 07:45 AM

All very valid points.


Well, 6063 T3 aluminium shouldn't be making a big difference, though. I'd worry more about the length of trusses, diameter (for the dynamic rather than static behaviour) and how narrow they make the attachments at top and bottom to make the triangles as stubby as possible. That looks right, and even though I don't like those spider attachments (shared by the Obsession UC) as far as collimation stability is concerned (I'd rather see one lower ring to keep trusses short and an upper ring to support the spider vanes), it helps to keep the trusses short.

A 6 point cell can be sufficient for a 16" mirror, especially a sandwich mirror (which is both thick and light). It's not a problem even for my monolithic 33.5mm thick mirror.

The edge support needs to be good, but the sandwich mirrors are both a blessing and a curse there (a blessing because they are, again, thick and light, a curse because the COG plane doesn't have a "proper" edge to support).

I'm not fond of Lazy Susan bearings either, but they can usually be made to work more or less well with some felt (unless the scope's heavy enough to press the rollers into the surface beneath).

Mind you, I wouldn't design the scope this way. But then, I would certainly not design a Meade LightBridge the way it is designed either .


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GeneT
Ely Kid
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Mary B]
      #4895708 - 11/03/11 01:46 PM

Quote:

Until someone actually uses one you can't make comments about performance. It is an unknown.




I've pointed out my concerns, and see no need to rehash them. If I gave some people something to think about, then I did my duty.We can all now sit back and wait until someone buys this telescope and gives us a review.


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roverich
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Pinbout]
      #4896390 - 11/03/11 08:39 PM

I went to there site on ebay and asked a question about the location of there store ..According to another astro site they are located in Falls Church Va....But i asked them if we could take a look at one before we bought it ..The guy replied that they dont have a shop , Or display to check out and the scope would ship from London England ... but the ebay store says it ships from Hong Kong ...They wont get any of my money ...I think i am going to buy a light bridge and either buy a base for it or make my own ...

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Ira
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: roverich]
      #4913429 - 11/13/11 10:07 AM

All of the issues pointed out for this scope are valid, but they apply equally well to EVERY ultra-light/ultra-compact dob. The thing about this one is that it's under $2K! I'd like to know how THIS scope deals with those issues, but I guess no one has one, so it remains an unknown.

/Ira


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hubble-optics
Vendor- Hubble Optics


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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Ira]
      #5134668 - 03/21/12 11:02 PM

http://www.astromart.com/articles/article.asp?article_id=856

Thank you,
Tong


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Pinbout
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: hubble-optics]
      #5135146 - 03/22/12 09:54 AM

See everyones comments. You need someone taking this scope around to stAr parties and exhibits like NEAF. And being located in hong kong is no excuse. The internet should be your only marketing tool. Wasn't there an article? If you want to sell you have to beat the pavement.

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CAVEMASTER
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: 94bamf]
      #5135638 - 03/22/12 02:38 PM

Hubble Optics Lightweight Sandwich Key Features:
Thermal and Structural optimized open core, and dynamically stable closed
back design

Rapid Thermal Response: cools down about 10 times faster for mirrors up to
24", and about 20 times faster for mirrors between 25"-36",f than a solid mirror
of equal thickness.

Outperform both conventional solid and closed cell lightweight mirrors in term
of image quality in the real world observation

Simple Flotation Mounting

Lighter than the solid mirrors (with weight saving about 20% for mirrors up to
20", and about 40% for mirror larger than 20" comparing with the solid
mirrors of equal thickness)

Cost competitive and unprecedented price/performance ratio


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hubble-optics
Vendor- Hubble Optics


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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5136490 - 03/23/12 12:09 AM

Hi Danny,

Thank you for the suggestion. Yes we see all the comments. Yes, we are most likely going to NEAF (still working with Alan at it now), with some very exciting new products (will be announced in the Vendor forum soon).

See You at NEAF 2012!

Thank you,
Tong


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alexvh
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: hubble-optics]
      #5137641 - 03/23/12 06:49 PM

Tong

I'd just like to say I'm extremely excited about this product. Thank you for bringing out another option in the dob Market. Im looking forward to seeing user reviews for this one!
All the best!


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kotlavaibhav
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: alexvh]
      #5204973 - 05/04/12 03:17 AM

i just bought an 18 inch f 4.08 sand wich mirror from HO .. will test it soon claimed 1/18.4 lambda 1/88 rms 0.995 strehl

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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: kotlavaibhav]
      #5205304 - 05/04/12 10:17 AM

OK I'm new to observing. I have an 8" SCT, and want a big scope, too. But it has to be portable, or I'm not interested. This Hubble 16" seems like the only ticket. Is there anything else that is at all similar in portability, 12" to 16"?

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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5205306 - 05/04/12 10:20 AM

And is this unit supplied with a plate glass mirror, or a pyrex one? Does it really matter?

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careysub
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5205638 - 05/04/12 01:34 PM

They use the Hubble Optics sandwich plate glass mirror. It is somewhat lighter and cools faster than a solid mirror.

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careysub
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: kotlavaibhav]
      #5205657 - 05/04/12 01:47 PM

Quote:

i just bought an 18 inch f 4.08 sand wich mirror from HO .. will test it soon claimed 1/18.4 lambda 1/88 rms 0.995 strehl




The HO figuring and testing procedures are not capable of turning out a true 0.97-0.995 Strehl mirror (i.e. one in which it correctly characterizes the overall mirror performance). I have never seen an independent test result on an HO mirror giving a Strehl ratio this high.

I don't accuse them of lying exactly, just of converting a more limited test result that does not adequately characterize the whole mirror, and converting it to a "S-Ratio" as if it did, and not stating this.

I note in passing that in a recent issue of Amateur Astronomer that a new premium large fast scope - Teeter perhaps? - had its mirror quoted with a similarly fictitious Strehl ratio based on a limited test value, but there they took pains to state that this was the case.

HO mirrors can test at 0.92-0.93 however, but some also test at 0.453, and that one probably shipped with a ~0.98 label also:

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EAukTx1FsUv5w9k68TGVeW-dNIUQ2yriwqQMNaEf7mxgYZ2gYD9baNZsDaYLOm9TWdIH8X6luGj6C-iv248c6c_b7DkCOQ/dale%20eason/Hubble16.pdf

I just bought an 18 inch F/4 HO mirror by the way, knowing this. I'll give a shot and maybe refigure if necessary.


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GeneT
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: sixela]
      #5206230 - 05/04/12 07:42 PM

Quote:

You just have to make your own light shield; it's hardly rocket science.




My comments/concerns were hardly limited to the light shield. The whole design looks shaky to me. There is a place for these ultra light/compact telescopes. My main point is that after owning several different telescope designs, I believe the traditional Dob provides better stability and viewing characteristics than the other designs. There are some ultra lites being made in Europe that intrigue me. The design in this post does not. Maybe some will buy the new Hubble UL 16 and write a review here on Cloudy Nights. Personal use or a review based on personal uses is the only way we will ever know.


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andrew0414
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Traveler]
      #5206348 - 05/04/12 09:00 PM

Quote:

I saw that just the structure of a 14 inch is just 1.1K!
How do they do that?



Guys. I think it's because its made in China. Actually they send everything from honkong! (Hongkong is China... I am not sure because I am not Chinese...)
hope this helps!!!


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Pinbout
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: GeneT]
      #5206422 - 05/04/12 10:01 PM

Quote:

Maybe some will buy the new Hubble UL 16 and write a review here on Cloudy Nights. Personal use or a review based on personal uses is the only way we will ever know.







Didn't you see the Hubble Review?



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sniperpride
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5206434 - 05/04/12 10:07 PM

Its more of a review of the modifications he had to do to it...

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GeneT
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5207558 - 05/05/12 05:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe some will buy the new Hubble UL 16 and write a review here on Cloudy Nights. Personal use or a review based on personal uses is the only way we will ever know.







Didn't you see the Hubble Review?




I am looking forward to hearing from some others who purchase and use this telescope. We need as many vendors making good products as possible. Hopefully, this telescope will be another good one.


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careysub
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: andrew0414]
      #5208185 - 05/06/12 01:04 AM

Hong Kong is a Special Adminstrative Region of the PRC (Mainland China), since the expiration of the treaty with the UK in the 1990s.

Hubble Optics is based in Taiwan which is also China. Both Taiwan and the PRC agree there is only one China, Taiwan has traditionally claimed that it is the legitimate government of all of China, the PRC claims the same. Taiwan has never asserted independence from the mainland. (This is why Taiwan is not represented in the UN.)

My Hubble Optics mirror is labelled "made in China", I believe it is manufactured in Taiwan.


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: careysub]
      #5223467 - 05/15/12 12:25 PM

Well, I'm about to order one. Does anyone know if the goto package Hubble uses is comparable to ArgoNavis/ServoCat combo?
Hubble is using Sky Safari, sitech controller with skyfi wireless receiver. Any opinions on how good this is compared to Argonavis/Servocat?


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5224870 - 05/16/12 10:44 AM

I've been emailing Tong about ordering a UL16. He has been very quick to respond and answer lots of questions. So far I've been pleased with the good customer support. I have asked him about quality control on the mirrors. Will report back when he responds. Has anyone else had their HO mirrors independently tested? Results?

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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5233226 - 05/21/12 09:17 PM

Order placed May 20. Tong says about 30 days to delivery, maybe 45. I'm satisfied about QC on the optics. Looking forward to a good mirror. Careysub, how is your 18" HO mirror?

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careysub
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5233399 - 05/21/12 11:58 PM

Upon cursory inspection in the Focault apparatus it looks quite good: very smooth over the entire surface, with a good edge. We weren't able to take zone measurements yet, I'll report as information develops.

(I am not a mirror maker but the guys in my ATM group are highly experienced and I am trusting their assessment, I am learning the ropes.)


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: careysub]
      #5272521 - 06/15/12 09:49 AM

I just received an email from Tong at Hubble; the scope is ready to ship! I've chosen air shipping, so it should be here fairly soon. I'm planning to bring it to the Oregon Star party. Anyone have advice on how to carry it? As baggage? Ship ahead by UPS or FEDEX? Should I buy a custom case? This is my 1st Dob, so I have zero travel experience.

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joshsane
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5278254 - 06/19/12 03:45 AM

I can't wait to hear about your experience with this new unit... I think everyone is probably anxious to hear about it.

If the news is good, would you PM me so I can place an order before everyone else?


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Photoner
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: joshsane]
      #5279284 - 06/19/12 05:34 PM

bhuloka,

I hope you have a digital camera on hand as we will be wild to see pictures of your new optical baby!


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hbanich
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5280977 - 06/20/12 04:26 PM

Quote:

I just received an email from Tong at Hubble; the scope is ready to ship! I've chosen air shipping, so it should be here fairly soon. I'm planning to bring it to the Oregon Star party. Anyone have advice on how to carry it? As baggage? Ship ahead by UPS or FEDEX? Should I buy a custom case? This is my 1st Dob, so I have zero travel experience.




Where are you coming from? For shipping to the OSP you might just use the packaging Tong used to ship it from Hong Kong. After you've had this experience with how your new scope does when being shipped you'll have a better idea what kind of case to get for it.

By the way, I'll be at the OSP and hope to see you and your new scope!


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hbanich
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5280988 - 06/20/12 04:33 PM

Quote:

Well, I'm about to order one. Does anyone know if the goto package Hubble uses is comparable to ArgoNavis/ServoCat combo?
Hubble is using Sky Safari, sitech controller with skyfi wireless receiver. Any opinions on how good this is compared to Argonavis/Servocat?




The SiTech controller will do everything the Servocat will do and a lot more if you want to run it from your laptop. Both SiTech and ServoCat can be run through an Argo Navis unit, but the Sky Safari and wireless reciever sounds like a great way to go. I haven't seen this in person yet but have heard from a couple other SiTech users that it works very well.


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: hbanich]
      #5282198 - 06/21/12 12:22 PM

hbanich; Thanks, Howard. I'm flying from Washington, DC.
Yes, I'll use the original boxes, I suppose.
Options are: Take with me as baggage when I fly to Portland,
or ship ahead via UPS or Fedex. Or air cargo. Probably only #2 will be cheap enough. What do you think?
Re: Sitech/skysafari; Hubble's system isnt ready for sale yet, so i'll have to wait a couple of months for that. I guess I'll be star hopping and pushing the ol' dob at OSP!
Dark skies should make that easier, though.
News Flash; the mirrir has shipped. Structure to follow in a few days.


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5315614 - 07/13/12 09:01 AM

OK, UL 16 is here, fully assembled, with only a few parts left over! Mirror arrived 2 weeks ago, structure last week.
No instruction manual, but Tong sent me pdf version of manual by email. Relatively easy to put together even for this first-time dob owner. (Note: do be sure you have a nice calm space for glueing the secondary to the holder.) After a few days of making sure I had the right bolts in the right places (I didn't), the movements are now smooth, except for a little bump in altitude movement caused by the folding alt bearing joint. I hope to tweak this to smoothness soon. Balance seems good. I'm glad I got the wheelbarrow handles, as it'll be MUCH easier to move. Last night I received Glatter laser and tuBlug. I think I need a Catseye sight tube to position the secondary, and I'll be ready for 1st light. But here in DC we've been cloudy for 2 straight months, with only 5 or 6 semi clear days in that time! Can't even see the moon or Saturn. No clearing in forcast for next 2 weeks. Arrrrgggghhhh! I need to test everything to get ready for Oregon Star Party.


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Pinbout
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5315620 - 07/13/12 09:08 AM

I like to hear how well it holds collimation as you rotate it thru the alt motions...

all these clouds and no rain... sunny by day and cloudy by night. it sux.


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5315771 - 07/13/12 10:16 AM

Yeah, Danny, when I saw the truss tubes, I thought they looked pretty lightweight (flimsy), but when they are assembled, the whole thing is really stiff. I'm pretty impressed with the design. But this weekend I'll put some weight on the focuser along with the laser, and move through the alt motions, and see how well it holds.
BTW, for positioning the secondary, do I really need a Catseye sight tube ($150+), or can I do with just getting the holographic attachment for the Glatter laser ($35)?
-Lawson


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UmaDog
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5316723 - 07/13/12 10:38 PM

Hey, Lawson! It's Rob from Spruce Knob! Good to hear the scope is working out well so far. If you do see collimation shift then keep in mind that it could have a number of sources, including insufficient tension in the spider.

I've heard a sight tube is easier to use than a holographic laser, but both can work. The most important alignments are the axial ones (secondary tilt and primary tilt). Centering and rounding the secondary isn't quite so critical. You could probably get by with one of these: http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=13537&kw=cheshire&st=2 The Catseye sight tube is nicer but it's $100 (not >$150). It's the kits with the other tools bring up the price to $150 or so. Whilst these kits are nice, I reckon you should get the scope out for a few nights and see how things go before deciding whether you want to chuck more big bucks at collimation.


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: UmaDog]
      #5316893 - 07/14/12 01:08 AM

Hi Rob, how good to hear from you. Now I know who UmaDog is!
I was grateful to get those few hours of clear skies at Spruce Knob. There have only been 2 good days since then here in DC. (June 18 and 19, in fact). When things clear up in Autumn, I suppose I'll see you at Black Forest Star party.
Thanks for the sight tube tip. I already ordered the Catseye sight tube. I hope it's worth it.
I'll put up pics of the scope when I get it collimated.
The thing I like about it is the portability. It's very compact, and only weighs 60 lbs. with mirror.
-Lawson


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Pinbout
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: UmaDog]
      #5317544 - 07/14/12 02:02 PM

Hey rob his spider is a self supporting (like a pyramid) and can't be tensioned.

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starman345
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5318896 - 07/15/12 01:30 PM

I"m interested in the pictures Lawson and generally how you like it. Hoping for clear skies for you

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UmaDog
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: starman345]
      #5318995 - 07/15/12 02:54 PM

Ah yes, so it does!

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alexvh
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: UmaDog]
      #5319914 - 07/16/12 08:56 AM

I'm trying to decide on the 16" Hubble optics, or the obsession 15" uc.... Any thoughts gents?

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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: alexvh]
      #5324952 - 07/19/12 12:25 PM

I had my new UL16 out for first light on Monday night.
The views were pretty, but I've still not got the scope fine tuned, so there were mechanical issues, mostly balance and vibration and movement-related. I didn't even have a finder or telrad on there yet, so aiming blind was tough. Still, what I did see was quite nice. There's a review of this scope on Astromart (see link on Hubbleoptic's website), where the fellow put a rubber stopper on the ground board to provide some friction on the azimuth motions. I will definitely be doing this one. The other absolute necessity is a light baffle opposite the focuser. For $10 I got a roll of velcro tape at the local hardware store. I'll just stick a small piece of black plastic up there using the velcro; problem solved, I expect. But without that baffle, I definitely saw lots of stray light entering the focuser, even though the light source was 2 miles away (cars on a highway).
Also, my heavy ES 30 eyepiece pulled the scope down, and I had to add a weight to the rear of the scope to balance. I'll let you know how the movements are after I get the thing balanced, properly adjusted, and fitted with a telrad.
-Lawson


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starman345
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5326349 - 07/20/12 05:31 AM

Sounds good. How did you find the setup and breakdown? Collimation is easy to achieve?

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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: starman345]
      #5327705 - 07/21/12 12:39 AM

I found setup and breakdown to be very easy. I just put the mirror box/rocker box on a mat on the ground, unfold and tighten the altitude bearings, attach the 8 truss tubes, put the secondary cage on top of that, then collimate. Collimation was easy using Glatter laser and Tublug. It will be easier when I replace the secondary collimation screws with finger-turnable cap screws. This is the first scope I have ever collimated, but it didn't seem difficult.

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WhoGoesThere
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5340627 - 07/28/12 08:36 PM

I just ordered one. Just a the basics and a shroud. I guess I'll report back in a couple months.

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starman345
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5341163 - 07/29/12 05:26 AM

Quote:

It will be easier when I replace the secondary collimation screws with finger-turnable cap screws.



I agree, I have the cap screws, much easier than fumbling with an allen key and chancing dropping it on the primary. I don't understand companies cheaping out on such little things that make such a big difference in ease of use of their products.


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TechPan6415
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: starman345]
      #5349517 - 08/02/12 11:22 PM

Hmmm..I have been looking at an Orion XX14i at 120 pounds...but this might be the ticket, far less room in my apartment too!

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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #5350065 - 08/03/12 11:40 AM

I'm still tweaking mine. Don't have enough free time right now, and weather is still bad. I'm still trying to get the friction right on the azimuth bearing, which is too loose for my taste. I'll probably upgrade to a Moonlight focuser with a filter slide. Not sure how I'll attach the filter slide to the cage, though. Might have to get the Moonliht focuser with the filter swing arm option because of this.
Has anyone tried that?

But, yes, the scope is compact for a 16". I just pick it up and put it in the car, then a second trip for the truss poles and secondary cage and my eyepiece bag. That's it. Pretty easy.

I attach a few small weights to the rear of the mirror box to balance it out. I use some photographer's "super-clamps" from Bogen (costly, but I had them already). Works well.

I ordered a synta shoe, a synta foot telrad mount, and a telrad flip mirror/dew shield from Scopestuff, and this also works really well.

There is some coma, so I think I will be getting a Paracorr.
I want to borrow one to test it out first, though. I'm accustomed to the 8" Edge HD, which is very sharp, so coma bothers me. I wonder if some of the coma I see is due to me not collimating correctly? (I have Catseye sight tube, Glatter laser and tuBlug.)

Also, Tong is very helpful, and always responds promptly to my emails. I'll report back...


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5350069 - 08/03/12 11:42 AM

The synta shoe and foot is for mounting the Telrad, of course.

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TechPan6415
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5350090 - 08/03/12 12:03 PM

Are you getting coma with all the eyepieces or just the ES/82 30mm? And in terms of AZ friction, did you try the rubber stopper trick that the guy did on the Astromart review? Love the super clamp trick for weights, I have about 4 of those in my grip drawer....

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Pinbout
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5350102 - 08/03/12 12:16 PM

Quote:

I attach a few small weights to the rear of the mirror box to balance it out. I use some photographer's "super-clamps" from Bogen (costly, but I had them already). Works well




pics please...


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #5350112 - 08/03/12 12:22 PM

Yeah, I used the 5/8" rubber stoppers. Not enough friction.
Also, amount of friction was not even all the way around the 360 degree rotation. Azimuth ring not perfectly round, maybe? Anyway, I'll try 7/8" rubber stoppers next. I think that will work. I'll have to squeeze them in there, but that is just what I want.
Coma is just in the wide eyepieces, I think. Really, I haven't had a decent night to check these things out in detail.
4 super clamps is exactly the number I use. Sometimes 3.
Before I thought of those clamps, I was using a bottle of ketchup, which I strapped to the rear. Worked great;-)


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5350114 - 08/03/12 12:23 PM

Oh, yeah, pics will be coming in a few days. Maybe this weekend.

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Gastrol
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5350159 - 08/03/12 12:53 PM

Using clamps for weights is a nice idea and probably effective, but I hope that's just a temporary solution as if it were me I'd like a more elegant and aesthetically pleasing counterweight solution for an otherwise fine looking instrument.

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TechPan6415
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Gastrol]
      #5350176 - 08/03/12 01:06 PM

At this point, I want to hear that the optics are fantastic and that collimation is staying put. I can fab the daylights out of metal at my friend's workshop, do it all the time. I would probably drill some attachment points for weights and make a light shield out of black gatorboard, gaffer's tape and velcro all the way around..

For example, my personal solar powered "Space Shuttle", about midway down the page:

http://kodachromeproject.com/blog/

I want to order today, but he seems to be running at 2 months and the price is up $300. All that said, this seems to be a much better bet for my small apartment needs than even a XX12i...


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Pinbout
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #5350238 - 08/03/12 01:49 PM

nice field camera techpan.

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TechPan6415
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5350345 - 08/03/12 02:59 PM

Quote:

nice field camera techpan.




Thanks! It's a killer camera at a great price. My go to kit weighs less than 20 pounds on my back, did a 4 mile hike to 12,000 feet with it last night..

I just put my order in the UL16...and a bunch of ES eyepieces...wonder if I can find a way to write this stuff off, LOL!


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5350453 - 08/03/12 04:19 PM

I just haven't had the scope out enough under decent conditions to say anything definitive about the optics. I did have a super Shapiro view of the moon last week, but haven't tried any more difficult targets (doubles) under good seeing. In fact, seeing has been poor, so no star test yet.

Re collimation, the laser does move a bit when going from 35 degrees to vertical. Is it too much? I dunno. It stays in the donut hole of the center mark (well, almost) but not in the center of it. I'll try to do some pics this weekend.


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5350472 - 08/03/12 04:30 PM

Super "sharp" view of moon. Damn autocorrect.

Gastrol, the "super clamps" are actually pretty nice techie-looking things. You can check them out at B and H Photo online. Black rectangular chunks of metal, they are. Perfect for this use, really, but I think they cost a bit too much.


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5350498 - 08/03/12 04:45 PM

The focuser that came with my scope doesn't seem to work. Bummer. It worked first two times out, then went loose. Knobs spin, but nothing happens unless I push the drawtube with my fingers. I tried tightening the tension set screw, the knob attachment screws, etc., but no luck. Tong says "send it back", but that means no focuser for a month or two. I want to fix it, but he told me not to take it apart. It's a standard GSO focuser, so it should be fixable, no?

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Pinbout
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5350549 - 08/03/12 05:26 PM

tell him to send a new one now and you'll send the defective one back when you get the new one. why should you be out of a focuser for so long.

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Gastrol
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5350590 - 08/03/12 05:46 PM

Just in case you weren't aware of, and only if you have two set screws on your focuser, don't tighten the bottom set screw. The top screw sets tension and should be tightened somewhat while bottom screw should be left loose. The bottom screw locks the draw tube when tightened.

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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Gastrol]
      #5350824 - 08/03/12 08:36 PM

Yes, I checked all of that pretty thoroughly. I'll give it a few more days of testing before I conclude that it's defective. Only if I'm absolutely certain i I haven't missed anything, that it won't work, then I'll ask Tong to send me a new one right away.

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WhoGoesThere
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Gastrol]
      #5352184 - 08/04/12 07:36 PM

Hmmm I wonder if this scope would like the Explore Scientific 9mm 120° 2" eyepiece? 203x with a .6 FOV! The entire moon at 200x!

Edited by WhoGoesThere (08/04/12 07:37 PM)


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: WhoGoesThere]
      #5352615 - 08/05/12 03:55 AM

Finally had a clear night! Tested a few views: Split epsilon Lyrae at 61x (barely, but I think that's pretty good for such low power, as seeing was only average). It was more clear at 100x. Star test (Polaris at 38 degrees) showed collimation just a tiny bit off after a few hours. However, the barlowed laser did seem to move a bit too much when going from low to high altitude. M13 resolved cleanly and pretty deeply. M57 also good. Wandered through star fields of Milky way in Cygnus. Sharp pinpoint stars in center half of view (30mm ES 82 degree eyepiece), but noticeable coma in outer half of view. A paracorr is in the future for this scope...
Movements are now much better, as I replaced the too-small 5/8" rubber stoppers, with slightly larger 3/4" stoppers. This slowed the lazy Susan azimuth bearing down, so the scope now stays where I point it. Tracking and moving around the zenith was easy.
Wind is the enemy of this scope, as a slight breeze sets the spider vibrating. The spider is the weak point of this scope, stability-wise and collimation-wise, I think. I didn't use the shroud tonight. That would have caught the wind and required still a bit more friction on the azimuth bearing to keep the scope from blowing around. The focuser is still a mess. I had to push and pull the drawtube while turning the knob. I may upgrade to a Moonlight focuser. Balance of the scope is quite good, using 2 or 3 Bogen super clamps as counterweights. Finally, this scope is beginning to settle in and perform well. It has been frustrating getting the movements to a useable status, and especially having the focuser fail, but tonight everything other than the focuser seemed to work, at least. The next step is to set this scope up next to my Edge 8" and do some comparisons. I believe the Edge will win in some respects.


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WhoGoesThere
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5363450 - 08/11/12 02:51 PM

Thanks for the insight. I look forward to getting mine.

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TechPan6415
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: WhoGoesThere]
      #5392964 - 08/29/12 10:18 AM

I got my 16" Hubble Optics mirror yesterday, I suspect the structure is not far behind. The F ratio is actually 4.43 since it is 70.94" focal length, test numbers on the certificate are Strehl 0.987, 1/13.4 PV. 1/56.4 RMS.

It looks good but the center spot is off by 1/8th. I will be using a laser collimator to align it, how will this affect it and can I just mark the actual center on the white ring which is where it is? I am hoping to not have to move it because in searching for over an hour, it seems the only way to do that is to use acetone which might spread the adhesive on a brand new and very clean mirror.

bhuloka, any updates?


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WhoGoesThere
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #5393131 - 08/29/12 12:47 PM

I'm sure someone on here has a good idea on how to help. As I told you in a PM I had a change of heart and canceled my order and decided to go in a different direction but I did not do that because of the scope itself. I'm sure it would have been fantastic!

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Mirzam
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #5393250 - 08/29/12 01:37 PM

Did you use a template to find the center spot error? I use the Catseye template and would definitely be concerned about 1/8" positional error. My spot placement accuracy with the template is about 1/32" or a bit less.

I see no reason why you cannot simply mark the proper spot position with a small catseye triangle right on top of the old spot. This avoids the possibility of an acetone smear mess, which I've already experienced myself.

JimC


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Mike B
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Mirzam]
      #5393427 - 08/29/12 03:12 PM

Quote:

I see no reason why you cannot simply mark the proper spot position with a small catseye triangle right on top of the old spot. This avoids the possibility of an acetone smear mess, which I've already experienced myself.




True, but you have a 2-1/2" (or so?) circle to play within that will never see the light of stars... only the laser.


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sixela
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Mike B]
      #5393452 - 08/29/12 03:23 PM

You don't want glue residue in that circle if you ever plan to use an autocollimator...

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TechPan6415
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: sixela]
      #5393510 - 08/29/12 03:53 PM

I simply measured it from the outside edge of the mirror. I have and will be using a 2" & 1.25" Hotech crosshair type of collimator.

I can't see how the laser hitting the white of the center sticker is going to allow me to actually collimate...


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #5394585 - 08/30/12 09:41 AM

I have not checked the accuracy of the center spot placement on my UL16. But I will now. However, when viewing, it does seem that the sweet spot for sharpness is centered in the eyepiece fairly well. Collimation is with Glatter laser and TuBlug.

Since my last post, I've only had the scope out once, a good night at Sky Meadows state park, VA (Yellow zone). I set up the 16 and my Edge 8" side-by-side. The 8" gave a much cleaner image on star splits (Epsilon Lyrae). Seeing was not good, and I believe the 16" was more affected by the poor seeing than the 8". The 8" also yielded a blacker sky, and thus better contrast. But of course, overall brightness was much better in the 16". M13 was much more resolved. The Lagoon nebula was brilliant. But I am still waiting for a night of good seeing and transparency to really check out the optics. If what I've seen so far is the sharpest the UL16 can get, then I am not satisfied at all.

A friend with a nice Webster 18" has told me he notices the same limitations in mediocre seeing; stars puff up into fuzzy balls, but when he applies an aperture mask to the scope, reducing it to 8", they snap into tight little airy discs. Only in good seeing will the 16" appear sharper.
I don't expect to have any good chance around here at least until mid-September, 2-3 weeks from now. (One giant, 4-month-long cloud has been hovering over the East coast.)
So the Jury is still out on the optics.


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5394621 - 08/30/12 10:11 AM

Mechanically, I'm still working on it. Balance is great.
Stability, once I've got an object in view, is good now.
The scope settles OK after movement, and stays put.
But movements are pretty jerky in several spots, and so high-magnification tracking does not seem doable, for 2 reasons: 1.)Azimuth motion has a sticky spot (lazy susan bearing seems to not be perfectly round, and presses harder against the rubber bumper at the tight spot in its rotation); 2.) There is a bump in the altitude motion when the folding bearing joint slides over its support. It is very difficult to get this joint aligned smoothly during setup. Some machining may be necessary for both of these problems.

I found the problem with my focuser. I took it apart, and examined the 4 steel rollers upon which the drawtube moves.
One of these does not move freely. It is a manufacturing defect, wherein the bearing wheel does not clear its mount, so it seizes up when the bearing assembly is held in place by its mounting screws. Loosening one of these screws allows the tube to move, though extremely roughly. So I've got it at least barely working for now. I will ask Tong to send me a new bearing assembly, and we'll see if that fixes the problem.

I also want to loosen the large nut on the main focus knob bearing (3 steel ball bearings), but it requires some kind of weird spanner to fit into 2 grooves on the nut. Not a normal hex-shaped nut. Has anyone seen this kind of thing before? Where do I get such a spanner?

Still haven't had time for pics of the whole business....


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Mirzam
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5394638 - 08/30/12 10:20 AM Attachment (42 downloads)

You mentioned poor contrast--did you add a light shield opposite the focuser? An annular baffle at the front end of the focuser also helps a great deal.

JimC


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Mirzam]
      #5394694 - 08/30/12 10:46 AM

Oh, Contrast is fine in the UL16. Very fine, in fact. Yes I did put a light shield opposite the focuser, though I haven't put a baffle ring on the end of the focuser drawtube. (Is that what you mean? How does that help?)

I simply was referring to the fact that the smaller 8" scope is not as bright, so the yellow-zone sky appears more nearly black, while the 16" brightens the background sky glow, along with brightening the target object. So on some subjects, the 8" view may appear more contrasty. But overall detail is still greater in the 16", of course.


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sixela
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5394707 - 08/30/12 10:51 AM

If you use the same magnification, yes. But if you use the same exit pupil, the sky will appear just as dark, but objects will be a lot larger.

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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5394708 - 08/30/12 10:51 AM

My issues with the scope currently are mostly about movement smoothness, or lack thereof. (And I've got a bad focuser, but that is probably not an issue for most people, as my focuser problem may be just an odd case.)

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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5394712 - 08/30/12 10:54 AM

Good point about magnification vs exit pupil, sixela.
Yes, I was using matching magnification in my test, so exit pupil sizes were quite different. That affected the sky darkness.


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Mirzam
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5394728 - 08/30/12 11:02 AM

Because the lower end of the focuser is so exposed, stray light can enter from a wide range of angles. The baffle restricts the entry angle to include just the secondary mirror and a bit of space around it. Right now I'm using a 1.25" adapter (flocked) held in place with a set screw that was added to the bottom end of the drawtube. I'll eventually machine a better solution but this works quite well.

JimC


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Mirzam]
      #5394747 - 08/30/12 11:14 AM

But doesn't this extension of the drawtube get into the light path, partly obstructing the mirror?

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sixela
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5395149 - 08/30/12 03:47 PM

Not if you can see the entire secondary from all the points of interest on the focal plane, no. You usually draw an envelope going from the circle of interest on the focal plane (usually the field stop of your widest field eyepiece) to the edge of the secondary, and the focuser baffle may not intrude there. But anything out of there is fair game. The closer it is to the secondary, the wider it becomes and the more effective it is to reduce the size of the light shield behind the secondary.

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Mirzam
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5395277 - 08/30/12 04:58 PM

In my case there is plenty of space between the end of the drawtube and the light path. The annular baffle also can be completely inside the drawtube if you like. The point is to make sure that it restricts the view angle properly when the drawtube is positioned at the point of focus. As Alexis comments, another benefit is to reduce the size of the large baffle screen opposite the focuser. If you have a bright sky background this baffle can itself reflect considerable light into the fov.

I've also wondered about the Hubble scopes if they have any sort of baffle behind the primary, and any sort of dew control for the secondary?

JimC


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Pinbout
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Mirzam]
      #5395482 - 08/30/12 07:21 PM

Hey jim did you make that self supporting spider?

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Mirzam
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5395605 - 08/30/12 08:46 PM

Yep! Used my new welding rig.

JimC


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kroum
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Mirzam]
      #5420378 - 09/14/12 03:24 AM

So, any news regarding these scopes? What do the owners have to say after some more time under the stars?

It seems too good to be true even with the challenges of ultra light designs. For some, this design is the only feasible way to own 16 inches of aperture.


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zipthelipp
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: kroum]
      #5420912 - 09/14/12 12:57 PM

I like the scope but I have don't understand why at NEAF they wouldn't let anybody touch and move around the scope???? (I seen this in the ONLY YouTube video on this scope) I wish there were more reviews and more feedback from actual owners. Plus where are they located?

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hbanich
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: zipthelipp]
      #5421191 - 09/14/12 04:08 PM

Hubble Optics is located in Hong Kong.

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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: hbanich]
      #5451995 - 10/02/12 01:47 PM

I had the 16" scope out again last week, for about the 7th time so far. I feel that I have not got the scope properly collimated. Optically, it's nice and bright; a good light bucket for dim objects. For example, globs resolve very well at 207x) But planetary views are not as good as other scopes. I hope this will improve as I collimate more accurately. (My center spot was off by 2mm, and my secondary centering is not correct.)

Mechanically;
altitude has a bit too much stiction, and so is a little jerky. Also there's a pronounced bump as the folding altitude bearing joint passes over its support. Annoying.
Azimuth is too loose, but has a sticky spot at one point in rotation, using a rubber stopper to add friction. I need a better idea to add friction evenly to azimuth motion.
At very low altitude, there is vibration which does not settle down; this makes high magnification difficult at low altitude. Not a problem above, say, 35 degrees, though.
Balance; this part is quite good. Big eyepieces don't pose a problem, with only 3 small ballast weights attached to the mirror box. (about 1 lb. total)

So far, the views are bright, and the scope is portable.
But more attention is needed to collimation (spot centering, focuser squaring, secondary placement, etc.), as well as to movement improvements.


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TechPan6415
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5456920 - 10/05/12 05:52 PM

I'm about ready to give up on the whole idea of a scope. After several delays in shipping the structure, both boxes arrived at customs in SF on the 27th. The big box left customs and arrived at my doorstep on the 1st. But the truss tubes still show inbound to customs, so I have no scope. I finally had to call customs because if it does not get here today, there will be no one to sign for it for nearly a month. So to this day, there is not ONE positive review of this scope that includes the optics....

Should have sucked it up & spent another 3-5 grand for an effing Obsession UC...


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zipthelipp
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #5457010 - 10/05/12 07:10 PM

TechPan, I was going to buy the Hubble Optics 16 but I couldn't get any positive feedback so I went with the Obsession 15UC. I hope your dilemma works out and good luck with your toy.
Mark


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TechPan6415
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: zipthelipp]
      #5457140 - 10/05/12 09:44 PM Attachment (44 downloads)

I know this is not Hubble's fault, I just can't believe my luck on this in terms of timing. I am hoping I can get ahold of the post office tomorrow and make other arrangements for delivery if nothing kooky has happened in customs.

People seem to like their mirrors, it can't be any worse than a Lightbridge which just weighs far too much for my needs.

Here it sits for the weekend, with no truss, a case of brand new 82 and 100 degree eyepieces and a bino viewer...damn....


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bhuloka
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Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #5457604 - 10/06/12 08:54 AM

Here's a link to a thread about an ATM-er in NZ who used a lazy susan azimuth bearing on his 25" dob. It was too loose.
He added a teflon bearing to his baseboard to solve the problem. Of course, the HO UL16 has no baseboard. But I do bring a plywood groundboard with me to place on the grass at local dark sites. So I'm thinking of adding something similar to that groundboard.

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5161640/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/all/vc/1


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5457612 - 10/06/12 08:58 AM

BTW, Techpan, that light shield you made looks great. But how much does it weigh? What is the solid material and where do you get it?

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TechPan6415
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5457883 - 10/06/12 12:26 PM

It's a 1/8th thick, 20" x 30" sheet of black core gatorboard, weighs maybe an ounce at most. You can get it from any arts and craft store. I assembled it with aluminum tape and covered that with black gaffer's tape. It's pretty stiff and easy to work with, should be fine.

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zipthelipp
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Reged: 09/10/12

Loc: Bayside NY
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #5457900 - 10/06/12 12:39 PM

looks great, any setting circles?

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TechPan6415
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: zipthelipp]
      #5460035 - 10/08/12 02:39 AM

So I upgraded the springs, re-did all my collimation and decided to take it for a real spin tonight. My wife loaded up dinner fixings in our little pop-up camper fridge, I loaded the scope and we headed for the place I got the inspiration to get back into astronomy after a 25 year hiatus, Independence Pass.

The skies were perfectly cloudless, the forecast was for 3/5 transparency and 3/5 for seeing, good enough for DSOs. When we got to the top of the 12,100 foot pass, it was a bit breezy and cold, 29 degrees. As my wife made dinner, I set up the scope, everything was fairly close after a 21 mile windy mountain drive. After the scope was set up, it was still fairly windy which blew the scope around like a wind sock....I am definitely going to have to come up with some Nina tensioner for the azimuth bearing.

I arrived at a near-perfect collimation after about 3 minutes, set at around 55 degrees since I was going to be favoring the zenith. After zeroing my Telrad in on Polaris, I went and had dinner until it got dark. 40 minutes later, I put the ES 30mm in and went work. The views of star fields looked pretty good in the 30, crisp, sure, could use a Parracor for the edges, but overall, looking good. I then used the ES 14mm 100 on M13, M57 and M27 and was blown away, just amazing contrast, sharp stars and beautiful images overall. I then used an 8.8mm 82 by it self, then the Siebert 25mm Black Knight binoviewers and OCA with the three sets of ES eyepieces.

As the night wore on, the wind died down and the seeing got pretty stable. We looked at a few NGC objects, M31 in the 30mm and played with all the eyepieces. At about two hours in, I checked collimation and it had drifted a tiny bit so I re-did since the wind died down.

Overall, I think I got a good scope, certainly some of the best views of DSO's I have seen with very good stars. I am both excited to have this scope and relieved that even though I have a few more minor tweaks to do, everything works well. Of course, having a night of cold, dry and still air at 12,100 feet does not hurt either. My wife had never seen any of these objects and loved it.

Hopefully this will help others decide if it is the scope for them.


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bhuloka
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Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #5460047 - 10/08/12 03:03 AM

How were the Jupiter views, Techpan?
Did you do the Epsilon Lyrae (double double) test?
(For these targets, my Edge 8" was superior in sharpness,
but it could not mach the 16" for resolving globular clusters; the 16" was much brighter, thus easier to see resolved detail on the faint stars of globs. M57 was also lots better in my UL16".)
What was your impression of the alt and az movements?
Did you find tracking to be jerky, or smooth?
Notice any bump in the alt when you come to the folding bearing joint?


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TechPan6415
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5460333 - 10/08/12 10:13 AM

Hi, we had to come home before Jupiter was in a good position, above the 20 degree mark. I did not really do any tests as much as just a general session of objects I know well.

As far as the movements, like I said, too smooth on the azimuth and the little bump on the alt, but I think I can do mods to overcome those for the most part.

I am at the airport right now, have a super busy schedule for nearly a month. So hopefully when I get back, I can do some more observing sessions and check out the planets better. I'm not really going to be able to compare this scope to another since it is the only one I plan on getting and have no immediate plans for any star party gatherings, the Denver club is too far and needlessly close to the city for me...

I just think from what I am seeing at the moment and how utterly compact this scope is, I can overcome the issues in mechanics and really enjoy it. I sure did last night...


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zipthelipp
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Reged: 09/10/12

Loc: Bayside NY
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #5460504 - 10/08/12 12:08 PM

TechPan sounds like it was a success! Good luck. Post pics of your scope.

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TechPan6415
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: zipthelipp]
      #5460590 - 10/08/12 12:46 PM

Waiting on my connecting flight. Yes, I think so far it is looking good. I wish I would have remembered to look at double/double last night, I have a feeling it would have done well. The stars in the center of the dumbbell looked pretty crisp in the 14 & 8.8mm EP's. M13 was about the best I had ever seen it, looked great in the bino viewers with ES 16 / 68's.

Overall, once the air calmed down, things really starting looking good, I even saw the spiral arms in M-51 when it was riding pretty low in the sky so it certainly pulls in more light than I have ever been used to.

I think the way a few of us have looked at this scope is that it is a much more compact and lightweight version of a Lightbridge or Orion 16, so I was not expecting optics on par with an obsession and I am still not. It really is super portable, I had no problems with carrying the mirror box and rocker/base down a flight of stairs to load in the car, very grip able and not too heavy. The rest of it is cake too, tubes, upper ring, etc.

But it is relatively untested, so I think most would be a little nervous about what a brave few have just laid out a couple grand on. It's built solid and for the most part, sensible. So all this in the price range of a Lightbridge looked good to me and thankfully, turned out good thus far...

I just wish I could be at home tonight to take it for a late night spin around Jupiter...


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bhuloka
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Reged: 03/06/12

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #5460629 - 10/08/12 01:09 PM

Well, I think I'll just throw my Ultra-portable UL16 in a suitcase, and head out West, then. Here in Maryland, it's been a cloudy summer. I've only seen the spirals in M51 once, back in June. After getting the scope working, that's the next thing; getting an air travel-ready case(s), for going to some good locations. Anyone have experience or ideas for travelling with this type of scope? Case suggestions? Perhaps someone with an Obsession UC15" knows what will fit?

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bhuloka
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Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5460636 - 10/08/12 01:14 PM

ZiptheLipp; you are in NYC. Do you have any ideas about how to do air travel with your Obsession UC15"? Have you gotten a case?

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TechPan6415
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5460683 - 10/08/12 01:38 PM

At first glance, it looks like Obsession offers a travel case for the 15" & 18" UC models, $495 & $595. Worst case ( pun intended ) I bet the one for the 18" would work. Also look at Pelican cases like a cube 0370. Even with the $45 caster kit, it is still nearly half the price of the UC 18" case but weighs 40 pounds empty, so your whole travel kit might weigh over 100 pounds.

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zipthelipp
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Reged: 09/10/12

Loc: Bayside NY
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #5460928 - 10/08/12 04:35 PM

bhuloka, I never travel with my scopes by air. My 15UC didnt come in yet. I may take it to the Philippines with me when I go there, I would love to see some of the Southern skies.

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Sean Wood
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Reged: 04/19/11

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: zipthelipp]
      #5474675 - 10/17/12 09:03 AM

Could one of you fella's that have one of these please measure what the dimensions of this scope is when it is collapsed. I'm SERIOUSLY considering one and just want to have all the info I can before purchase. Also, is the aluminium frame components black anodized, powder coated or just have a plain enamel finish?

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stewarttt
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Reged: 11/11/11

Loc: Monticello, Florida
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Sean Wood]
      #5476630 - 10/18/12 10:06 AM

Sean,
When the scope is collapsed, it is about 20" high and 22" on all sides. Very small footprint. If you decide to get one I would recommend getting the wheels that you can order as an option. Well worth it. Or better yet, make them yourself. I bought all the parts and made them for about $75. They look just like the ones on the Hubble website. Also, I think the frame is black anodized paint


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TechPan6415
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: stewarttt]
      #5479515 - 10/19/12 09:20 PM Attachment (56 downloads)

An Update:

"Seeing is Believing"…at least in terms of good seeing that is…

I had an assignment to shoot out in Utah yesterday morning, so I checked my clear dark sky app and the seeing looked promising at both Natural Bridges and Goblin Valley, so after the shoot, I took my pop-up camper and scope out to the latter. I had to go for another 3-4 miles on dirt roads before I could find a spot that was not polluted with campfires and hordes of ATV riders camping out. I finally settled on a nice bench off of a short 4WD road and set it all up for the night...

At 8PM, I had the scope set up and a basic collimation done. I went into the camper for an hour to let it cool off and made some dinner. By 9PM I was off and running. There was a tiny breeze that would kick up a bit here and there for about an hour, the seeing was fairly good and things started looking good. But by midnight, it was dead calm and the seeing was very, very good. I ran the scope through it's paces with all my eyepiece combos and just had a blast finding all kinds of DSO's I had never seen before. By 1:30 AM I must have seen two dozen galaxies, a dozen planetaries and plenty of diffuse nebula and star clusters, it was addicting. So I got a little tired and decide to nap until 3 AM. I got back up and the seeing was even better, jupiter was mind blowing in the binoviewers and I was addicted to the Orion Nebula like it was crack. I went bonkers until twilight made flooded the views of Venus and Jupiter, went back to bed at 8AM.

I did check the collimation often because a temporary fix for the loose azimuth bearing turned out to be too sitff and it was rough to say the least, the only real downer of the night. It made looking at Jupiter with the 8.8's in the 1.25X binoviewer combo a pain in the rear, the 16's were much better in terms of dealing with the stiff side to side motion. I did a couple of star tests and I thought that overall, it looked pretty good, very symmetrical, with maybe a tiny bit of darkening on the extreme outside edge of the inside focus ( I think ). I still think I need to do some more on this so I might need to compare it to another scope at some point but overall, I thought when the seeing and collimation was good, the stars and Jupiter looked great.

But the deep sky objects…wow, I truly have never seen Orion like that, the entire 30mm eyepiece filled to the brim with nebula, the colors, the tiniest of stars in the trapezium, I must have looked at that for over an hour, 30mm 82 degree, 14mm 100 degree, 24 and 16mm in binoviewers, holy cow! The spiral structure in galaxies, the Eskimo, the Owl, etc, all kinds of stuff, just a heck of a lot of fun and most likely the best views of objects I have ever seen…certainly the most in one night.

I have more mods to do, like find a permanent solution for the azimuth bearing, an adjustable tensioner. Right now I have two small felt pads lodged in-between for some friction, last night I had 4 and it was a nightmare. But all in all, I think this scope is going to work for me! I have just as dark of skies out where I live, but lately the seeing has not been great, so a trip out to Utah finally shed some light on how good the optics are, glad I brought it with me!


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sopticals
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/10

Loc: New Zealand
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #5479527 - 10/19/12 09:27 PM

Nice report.Great dark sky start.Scope obviously giving great views.You will be well satisfied with the optics. Enjoy.

Stephen.


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bhuloka
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Reged: 03/06/12

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: sopticals]
      #5514479 - 11/11/12 01:21 PM

I finally had a chance to do a meticulous comparison (in very good seeing) between my 8" Edge HD SCT, and my Hubble 16".
The news is (finally) very good for the Hubble.
The Edge scope has always been razor sharp, even when I compared it against a 5" TEC refractor while viewing Saturn last Spring. So, I consider it a good benchmark for evaluating the 16". But 2 obstacle stood in my way; poor weather from May thru October, and the fact that I did not know how to properly collimate and otherwise optically adjust the Hubble scope.

Now the weather has cleared, and I have spent some time working on the scope's collimation issues. I re-centered the primary mirror center spot (is was off by 2 mm). I re-glued the secondary mirror to it's stalk (it was previously noticeably crooked). I added a milk-jug washer to the top of the stalk, so that the collimation screws would move smoothly (this made a HUGE difference in being able to minutely adjust the mirror aim). I very carefully recentered the secondary mirror under the focuser, using a Glatter laser with holographic attachment, AND a Catseye sight tube. I also had precisely levelled the focuser itself. Using a laser in the focuser, I found that the focuser was indeed tilted down a bit. Some aluminum foil shims placed under the focuser mounting bracket solved that problem. I replaced the weak primary mirror support springs with heavier ones from the local hardware store. I made a nice light shield for the upper cage out or Protostar flockboard. And, though not optically necessary, I replaced the faulty GSO stock focuser with a nice Moonlite CR dual-speed focuser (with filter swing arm; saves weight compared to a filter slide).

Then I spent some serious time examining the primary mirror cell; namely, the mechanics of its collimation screws and lock-down bolts. (This without the mirror in the cell.)

All of this effort really paid off this week. Clear Sky Chart showed excellent seeing for Saturday night, so I headed out with both scopes for a definitive "sharpness showdown". While the 16" has always been brighter than the 8", it has been blurry at higher magnifications, so planetary views have been poor compared to the 8" Edge.
I wanted to see if my modifications would finally bring the 16" up to its potential. The answer is a resounding "YES"!

I set up both scopes, let them cool for 2 hours, then went to work. My main test targets were Jupiter, and the Trapezium in M42. (Also Uranus and Double Cluster.)

Jupiter was near its zenith by 1 am. Seeing was very good, at least 4 out of 5, and steadily improving. The 16" view was very detailed, subtly colored, and bright. But the 8" was a little better. So I checked my collimation, using a tuBlug; sure enough, it had drifted. After readjusting collimation, the 16" became much sharper, easily surpassing the 8". But the 8" still had better contrast on the planet's surface; dark bands appeared darker, light areas still bright. So some features stood out more. But they were not quite as detailed as in the 16", just easier to see.

Then it was time to increase the magnification.
Here is where the 16" really left the 8" in the dust.
The 8" easily handles 302x, but gets mushy and dim if you go much above that. Floaters appear in the eyes, and the detail does not increase. The 16", however, easily delivered 389x with exquisite detail, and rich colors which I had never seen on Jupiter before. The Great Red Spot had a clear color gradient from white margin to peach-colored center. There was white, pink, orange, rust, all subtly blending from one to the other, or sharply defined at edges of features. I remember faintly gasping at one moment when the seeing became especially clear. Then I walked over to the 8". Again, better contrast, but somewhat less detail, and definitely much less subtlety and variety of rich colors. Perhaps the 16" just makes the darker areas too bright, thus losing some contrast. Maybe a ND filter to darken it up a bit would help?...

Next post, The Trapezium...


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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5514578 - 11/11/12 02:29 PM

On the Trapezuim, the UL16 clearly did much better than the Celestron 8" Edge HD. But I again had to collimate the 16". It seems to drift, so tweaking seems to be a continual process that pays dividends. The 16 clearly and easily showed the E and F stars, steady and calm. The 8" showed the E star faint but steady. At first, no sign of the F star, but it eked into view during a few moments of good seeing. Not steady, though.

The larger nebula showed lots of subtlety in the 16, much more than the 8".

I had spent several hours meticulously comparing the scopes on these 2 targets, using various magnifications, waiting for calm seeing moments. The 16" is finally fulfilling its potential. With a 2x barlow, i now think it will easily go to 544x, or maybe even (gulp) 772x. Is that possible?

We shall see....

I then turned to the Double Cluster for a low power view with both scopes; the 8" view was beautiful, but the 16", now nicely collimated, was just breathtaking. I had previously been satisfied with the 16's low power views, but the good collimation made them dramatically better.
There were lots of tiny, pinpoint stars of various colors, dense and rich.

I finished the night with some large aperture specials; faint fuzzies, that is. No contest here. The 16" view of M31, 32, 101, 81, 82 were bright and fine. 8" just couldn't keep up.

Future modifications; goto/tracking system from Hubble, binoviewers, reducing stiction in altitude bearing, adding a little friction to the lazy susan azimuth bearing.

Bring on the good seeing, 'cause the Hubble Optics 16" is ready (optically, at least).


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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5514580 - 11/11/12 02:30 PM

(M110, not 101)

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starman345
Wait, I'm Thinking
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Reged: 07/06/10

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5514695 - 11/11/12 04:04 PM

Great report, I much enjoyed reading it. This gives me hope that my 14 HO mirror will deliver good views when I get the scope finished.

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sniperpride
super member


Reged: 01/04/12

Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: starman345]
      #5515114 - 11/11/12 09:28 PM

No offense, but tell me you are not honestly comparing an 8 inch to a 16 inch scope....If the 16 does not beat it out on fainter objects you have a problem.

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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: sniperpride]
      #5515356 - 11/12/12 12:24 AM

"No offense, but tell me you are not honestly comparing an 8 inch to a 16 inch scope....If the 16 does not beat it out on fainter objects you have a problem. "

It was a test of general optical quality, not quantity, you might say. For its size, the 8" Edge HD is really sharp, with absolutely no collimation issues. The Hubble, however, was an unknown, and my first Dob. Until now, it has been definitely fuzzy, and very UN-satisfying in the planetary viewing department. The 8" was very obviously kicking its rear in that regard. But on faint objects, yes, the 16" was always vastly superior right from the start. But I feared that I had gotten a very poor 16" mirror that would never do well with high-power views. So I compared it side-by-side with a known sharp performer, not for brightness,(which would be ridiculous, as you point out) but for sharpness and pinpoint stars, which, until now, I hadn't seen in the 16" because of my poor collimation skills. That was the point, and I'm now satisfied that the 16" mirror is almost in the same league with some very nice premium mirrors I have looked through(an 18" Webster and a 20" Midnight), and better than a 16" Lightbridge which I spent an evening with back in May.


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Sean Wood
super member


Reged: 04/19/11

Loc: North Carolina
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5565554 - 12/11/12 09:02 AM

Hubble has added some products to their line...
A 14" f4.6 UL($1895), 18" f4.0 UL($3695) and a set of Bluetooth adapted digital setting circles they are touting for use with an Android tablet and Sky Safari... U do a single or double alignment and the tablet image follows you. From how they're making it sound. $149 if you get it when you order the scope or $249(+$40 s+h) outright.
Pretty nice additions I'd say.


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nirvanix
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 06/07/07

Loc: Saskatoon, SK
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Sean Wood]
      #5565849 - 12/11/12 12:26 PM

Yes, I'm now strongly considering taking the Hubble plunge. It's a lotta scope for da money and people seem quite satisfied with performance except for some tweeks. Not sure where I fit in on the size scale. Would the 14" f4.6 need a paracorr? Likely the 18" f4 would.

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starman345
Wait, I'm Thinking
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: nirvanix]
      #5565868 - 12/11/12 12:35 PM

I have a 14" f4.48 and haven't finished the build yet, from what I've read it seems some people aren't bothered by the coma while others are, I'm going to try without then see. Like you say, probably at f4.0 coma would be a bit more evident. But, that 18" f4.0 would keep your feet on the ground, a big plus right there. These new additions to the Hubble line make for some nice competition for the other makers.

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Sean Wood
super member


Reged: 04/19/11

Loc: North Carolina
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: starman345]
      #5565974 - 12/11/12 01:42 PM

I'm considering one of these and I'm coming off of a 10" Light Bridge... The 16 is still looking to be my best bang for the buck... Don't know if I could justify $1200 for another 2" of apature... Or would there be enough difference in views to make it worth my while to save another few months for the big boy?

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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Sean Wood]
      #5566041 - 12/11/12 02:24 PM

Well, Sean, the eyepiece height is the same for the 16" f/4.5 and the 18" f/4.0
Therefore I have also wondered if the 18" would have been a better choice. But I am happy with my UL16", as it is lighter and more portable than an 18". The difference in light gathering is 200 sq. in. compared to 254 sq. in. , so a 25% increase. But a big jump in price. So, yeah, brighter, but not $1200 worth, to my thinking.

Regarding paracorr; I'll be binoviewing this scope (Siebert Black Nights arriving next week). The optical corrector that comes with the scope is basically a paracorr for the binos, so I won't be getting a separate paracorr.
I used to think this scope had lots of come, but it was mostly just poor collimation. Since I've gotten better at collimating the scope, the coma has not bothered me much. It's there, but not such a big deal at f/4.5
I find that poor seeing is more of a problem than coma.
When seeing is good, things look pretty crisp, given proper collimation. So I'm glad I didn't buy a paracorr.

The mechanical issues remain unsolved; too much stiction in altitude movements, and too loose in azimuth. These problems ARE solveable, though, if one has some time to spend on them. Next year, I plan to solve them just by getting Hubble's goto system, and letting the motors move the scope.


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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5566051 - 12/11/12 02:27 PM

Sorry; the optical corrector comes with the black night binos, not with the scope.

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nirvanix
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5566420 - 12/11/12 06:38 PM

Thanks starman and bhuloka for answering my question about the paracorr. Nice to hear that the 14" may not have heinous coma.

So much choice in scopes these days. Feels like the kid in a candy store metaphor.


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Bill Weir
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: nirvanix]
      #5566505 - 12/11/12 07:48 PM

Quote:

Nice to hear that the 14" may not have heinous coma.





It will have the same amount of coma as any other f/4.5 mirror. To many it will be bothersome and to the others who don't care what the edge of the FOV looks like it will be tolerable. To be sure though a f/4.5 mirror has a fair deal of coma. All it will require to clean it all up would be a type 1 Paracorr and there are more than a few out there in the second hand market for a reasonable price. I even have one that I just haven't put on the market since getting the type 2 to go with my f/3.3 mirror.

Bill


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Bill Weir]
      #5566619 - 12/11/12 09:41 PM

Yes, there is definitely some noticeable coma. I didn't mean to imply that it is insignificant; just that it doesn't bother me at the moment, knowing that my coma-corrected binoviewers will be arriving shortly. The coma does intrude on high-power Jupiter viewing, as I have to constantly nudge the scope to try and keep Jove in the coma-free center. I do lose some detail when I let the globe drift to the margin of the field at 389x.
Regarding wide-field views; They seem OK. Well, I haven't used a Paracorr yet, so I guess I don't know what I'm missing.


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nirvanix
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5566650 - 12/11/12 10:04 PM

Thanks Bill and bhuloka. I'll just have to wait and see what I feel about the view. Have an f5 now and don't notice the coma at all.

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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: nirvanix]
      #5566684 - 12/11/12 10:28 PM

There is also an issue with vibration in this scope. The lightweight build means that the scope will bounce and jitter when it is aimed near the horizon; anywhere below 40 degrees, really. It's not bad at low power, but it's a real deal-breaker at high magnification (over 125x, I'd say).

The GSO focuser that came with my scope was defective. I sent it back to Tong, and he sent me a new one, which works fine. But I replaced it with a Moonlite CR2, which is MUCH lighter, and far lower profile, as well as smoother turning.


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5566688 - 12/11/12 10:32 PM

At high viewing altitudes, the scope is stable, as long as there's no wind blowing on the spider, which is prone to vibration. One nice point is that this scope handles Dobson's hole really well. This is because the azimuth bearing is so loose that it's still easy to turn when pointed up high. A silver lining to that cloud, I'd say.

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Sean Wood
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5577489 - 12/18/12 03:30 PM

Now they're offering a 16" f5 for $1995.. Wow!!!

Any disadvantages outside of the hassle of a ladder at zenith?


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lamplight
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Sean Wood]
      #5598987 - 01/01/13 12:48 AM

pulled the trigger on the 16 myself last week. thank you so much for all the info bhuloka !

Sean, from heir website: Eyepiece height at zenith: 1690mm / 66.5" (f/4.5), 1890mm / 74.5" (f/5)


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dtripz
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: lamplight]
      #5599638 - 01/01/13 01:32 PM

I ordered the UL 18, can't wait to test it out. Quite anxious about the mirror being good however..

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c.bernardino
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: dtripz]
      #5724407 - 03/10/13 06:06 PM

dtripz,
any news now? please keep us posted...
Bhuloka, have you done more obs sessions?

thanks in advance,

Carlos


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Symui
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: dtripz]
      #5724459 - 03/10/13 06:33 PM

Anyone receiver theirs yet? A few folks in the local Astronomy club are interested in learning more about this scope and mirror.
TIA, Rick


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dtripz
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Symui]
      #5724864 - 03/10/13 10:40 PM

Still waiting for the 18 to come.

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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: dtripz]
      #5725574 - 03/11/13 10:53 AM

My binoviewers arrived in January, and I have had the scope out several times since then. I did some viewing tests this Saturday night in good seeing. I stayed up all night, in fact, and had some great views; faint fuzzies, open clusters, globular clusters, and Jupiter/Saturn.

The more I use this scope, the more I understand it's strengths and weaknesses.

My overall feelings are:
-The optics are fine, but require collimation to be VERY precise, especially for planetary or double star viewing.
The collimation tends to drift, at least when the temperature is dropping, so, when it's cold, recollimating is an absolute necessity.
-I LOVE the lightweight portability. The scope takes me 30 minutes to carry from the car, set up, collimate, and begin viewing.
-I love the fact that, at f/4.5, I can sit in my Stardust viewing chair comfortably, even at full zenith. (I'm only 5'6", so standing requires a 3" step at full zenith.)
-Movements are not as good as other scopes, but I think this will get better with minor changes: I got some real ebony star bearing material, and some Sailkote spray lubricant. I'll install the ebony star when I get some time.
I think that will make altitude movements smoother, but not perfect. Why not? Because the bearing is only 1/2" wide. I suspect that 3/4" is needed to support this weight smoothly, without stiction. Even as the scope is now, though, Sailkote does seem to help better than other stuff I've tried, like powdered graphite.

Saturday night, I set up next to a 12" Zhummel dob, with excellent optics. At first, I felt that the Zhummel optics were doing much better than mine. But then I realized the cause; I'd just brought the mirror out of my HOT car. Usually I remember to set the scope out to cool for an hour or two, but this time I didn't. What a huge difference that made! Jupiter had a double image, was fuzzy, and shimmering with mirror thermals. Yecchh! The Zhummel was already cooled, had a nice clean, stable image.

So I concentrated on faint fuzzies for a couple of hours.
This scope is great for the FF's!
After the mirror cooled, I checked collimation; it had drifted a lot. Recollimated, then started with Globs, Open Clusters, and Saturn. The mirror was cool and collimated, atmospheric seeing was better, and the binoviewers were rocking! Everything was sharp. I looked at M3 (185x); super resolved!
Then Saturn; so beautiful! Cassini's division was steady, complete 360*, sharp. No crepe ring or Encke minimum, though. The B ring was a darker color than A. I saw3 moons; Rhea, Dione, and Titan. Enceladus was hidden in the planet's glare. (3:15 a.m. Sunday morning)
Then to M57; faint blue-green color. No central star, but I could see the little 13th mag star next to it. A very good view.
Then the real test; epsilon lyrae, the double double.
Darn it, I could not get a clean split! I had only a messy split, still at 185x. There were little comatic spikes on the stars. So I checked collimation. Sure enough it was off, but only by a little bit. Surely such a small deviation couldn't be so bad!?
The barlowed Glatter laser was only off by half a diameter of the Catseye center hotspot hole. I fine tuned it.
Wow, what an improvement! There were now 4 neat little stars in epsilon lyrae, with a tiny bit of clean separation between the airy discs.

The conclusion is that yes, there is coma, and collimation has to be absolutely perfect. (When you get this scope, you must check the center spot placement; mine was off by 2mm!) I wonder if it will be more stable in the summer, when temperatures don't fall so much.
I don't have a paracorr, but I feel that it's not needed, since I use binoviewers almost 99% of the time. The Siebert multi-magnification optical corrector seems to work well enough with the Black Night Binos. Also, I am now planning to get Jim Fry's Catseye collimation tools for even more precise adjustment. I already have his combo sight tube/cheshire, but haven't used it. I will get an autocollimator, and learn how to use these tools (in the dark!). I'm looking forward to the next star party, when I'll be able to set up next to a good premium dob, and have a real optics showdown. I expect the Hubble Optics mirror to finish in a respectable 2nd place.

-Lawson


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Adonfff
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5732900 - 03/14/13 08:15 PM

Hi guys,

I got my 16" at the end of the last year.
I only tested it once because of bad weather with winter but enought to see what tweaks was required.

First test was ok despite the weather was not and according to what I used to see in my LB16 (homemade structure).
Expect for contrast and stability !

For contrast, add foam at the top just like most ppl does and the bottom, when observing from home, even the ground is "shiny", not required when in the real spot.

For stability...brakes, cause without it was a good tool to find the wind direction !
I use one of the hole on the side of the rocker to push a thin plate with a screw, which brake the alt direction just like needed since can be ajusted.
And one hole above the ring to do the same for the az direction.
Will post pics later about them.
And for altitude again, must add a solid iron bar on alt bearings, there are even holes for it since this is an feature of the 18"...but bearings bends without them on both side.

Had to find a correct position for the eyepiece holder to avoid tilting with heavy eyepieces.

And thats it...clouds and heavy wind for months...need some more testing now !

Didnt check for center spot on mirror...just cant believe this happen, how the hell can they place it at the wrong place...?


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dr.who
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Adonfff]
      #5757299 - 03/26/13 12:27 AM

As a way to subconsciously delay myself from buying the mono CCD I am planning I am thinking about getting the 16. Anyone know if the bump and too loose problems are fixed or do I need to prepare to roll my own fix ? I am serious about buying one by the way CCD aside.

I have always had a large Dob in the back of my mind but was always put off by the huge weight, high cost of a ul, and lack of decent goto/push to because of the LP I observe in but with digital setting circles I think I can handle the push to part and with a UL I can cover the weight but I can't justify the expense of an Obsession or the like so this is in the wheel house but I want to make sure it's not a big mistake...

Edited by dr.who (03/26/13 12:30 AM)


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dr.who
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: dr.who]
      #5758156 - 03/26/13 12:43 PM

Folks-

As an FYI here is the response I got from Tong regarding questions I had:

Hi Carson,

Thank you so mcuh for your interest in our products.

1) We have improved the ALT bearing, so there will be much less chance for the ALT bearing to bump during the movement. However with even with the previous design, the bump is a setup (adjustment) issue, you can always adjust it more carefully, so there will be no bump felt during movement.

2) The looseness in the azimuth bearing have been resolved by adding a very effective adjustable spring load friction brake.

3) I will recommend the SkyHub over GoTo, it is almost working like a GoTo at only 10% of the cost! It literally takes minutes to install. You are right, it is only a Push To and no tracking.

4) Yes, we do offer an advanaced GoTo system at a very reasonable price. http://hubbleoptics.com/GoTo.html.



5) We will offer a light shield option soon.



Thank you and best regards,
Tong


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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: dr.who]
      #5758771 - 03/26/13 06:01 PM

I ordered the push-to DSC's (skyhub) last week.
When I get it, I'll test and report here.
Tong says he is also sending me a spring-loaded brake for the azimuth bearing. I hadn't heard that he improved the altitude bearing to get rid of the bump. I'd like to know what the improvement was, exactly, and if I can do it to my scope.
Meanwhile, I expect the DSC's to arrive in a couple of weeks.


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dr.who
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5758786 - 03/26/13 06:13 PM

Excellent! I am not quite half way towards the total price and need to decide between this and that CCD I was looking at. Any updated thoughts on the scope overall?

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alexvh
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Reged: 07/29/07

Loc: South Africa
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: dr.who]
      #5785351 - 04/08/13 07:24 AM

dr. who
from around the web, there seem to be mostly good impressions on the UL16. the only serious issue is the collimation shift that seems toget somebut not others. I am waiting on my order to arrive, but when it does, I will give a full review...I have the f4.5 with GOTO on the way.
I went for this instead of the obsession 15"UC. I hope I made the right choice!
looking at your signature, the 16" will be a nice addition to your stable!

Edited by alexvh (04/08/13 07:29 AM)


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dr.who
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: alexvh]
      #5786389 - 04/08/13 04:51 PM

Cheers Alex! I actually am angling towards a Sumerian Optics. I have relatives and friends in the EU so he is willing to ship to them and they can then ship it to me. However I am thinking about one of the HO 14" mirrors for it...

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bhuloka
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Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: dr.who]
      #5786785 - 04/08/13 08:28 PM

Hi Alex, Dr Who;
From my experience with my UL16 over the last 8 months, collimation shift is not much of a problem at all. I do slight tweaks once or twice during a long night. Using a Glatter laser and tuBlug, this takes only about 1 to 2 minutes. Now that I'm used to it, I find that I can keep the scope collimated, and I can quickly sense when it has drifted a little. This seems to happen more when the air is cooling down quickly. Cooling all parts of the scope ahead of time seems to help. This includes the truss tubes and upper cage, not just the mirror box.

What IS a problem is ...
1. Movements aren't so smooth, (stiction), there's a bump in the altitude bearing, and the azimuth is far too loose.

2. Vibration and general shaking when the scope is pointed below 45 degrees. This is the biggest problem for me, when viewing Saturn, which is currently at only 38 degrees here in Maryland, USA. I have to wait after focusing, and avoid letting my eyes bump the binoviewers. Nudging the scope in this case just causes more vibration, so tracking becomes a real pain. I expect my soon-to-arrive Eq platform to make the scope quite useable at low altitude targets, as I won't have to touch it at all. I can just focus, let vibrations settle, then gaze through my high eye-relief Siebert eyepieces (which I love), as the platform does all the tracking work.

The scope is quite pleasant to use above 50 degrees.
I have ordered a Gregg Blandin Equatorial platform so that I can have tracking, and don't have to worry about stiction.


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bhuloka
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Reged: 03/06/12

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5786802 - 04/08/13 08:37 PM

Also, Tong has said he's sending me a friction device for the azimuth bearing, along with the skyhub DSC's which I ordered.
Still waiting for those to arrive.
I have gotten better at adjusting the alt bearing,too, so the bump isn't so bad as before.
Wind is still a problem at low altitude, though.

All things considered, I would not trade my lightweight scope for a heavy one, even though it would be more stable. I like the ease of carrying, setup, etc. It's very easy on my back!

I wonder though, if the truss poles should be thicker.
They are only 3/4" diameter. Perhaps 1" or even 1-1/4" truss poles would have made a much stiffer scope with very little weight penalty. Anybody have any opinion or experience with this point?


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bhuloka
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5786805 - 04/08/13 08:39 PM

I do really like the Sumerian design, and I could definitely see a 16" f/4.5 Canopus with a HO mirror as a great future scope.
Dr Who; how long is the lead time on your Sumerian scope?
When do you expect to take delivery?


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dr.who
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5786858 - 04/08/13 09:06 PM

Thanks for the information Bhuloka. That is what had me worried.

As to the Sumarian... At the very end of the ordering process. Just need to get him my final mirror answer and shipping address since he isn't providing the mirror. So I am not sure yet. sorry about that. I think he said 5-6 weeks was the lead time.


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Adonfff
journeyman


Reged: 10/13/12

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: dr.who]
      #5799008 - 04/14/13 05:56 PM

Hi guys,

I finally had a chance to test that thing !
But not in deep sky since I was observing at home.

Alt and Az movements are hard to set because the structure move a lot when temp drops and brakes doesnt work properly until set again but still not very stable anyways, cant put the eyepiece without everything inside going all around.

Didnt notice any collimation shifting.

Jupiter was low but with a 9mm the view was decent, couldnt go lower eyepiece on it.
Moon was interesting, sharp with the 9mm and ok with the 4mm, I tried the barlow to reach 2mm it was acceptable, in a few days should be better with an highter Moon.

But stars...I cant have a nice little spot light, very fuzzy.
And star test is awful...Inside focus looks good, can count cercles but the outside focus is fuzzy blurry, barely can see cercles and looks like the mirror is badly cooling down even after 3 hours outside...(I know its not, this is abberation on the mirror).

More testing later


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UmaDog
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Adonfff]
      #5799658 - 04/14/13 11:40 PM

You're getting acceptable views at over 900x on the moon yet the star test is horrific? That doesn't add up. What do you mean about the mirror cooling down? If you heavily defocus you will see the convection cells moving slowly across the mirror if it's not cooled down. Not the fast stuff: that's bad seeing. What did you see? The fuzzy stars sounds like poor seeing. If so, stop down the scope with an aperture mask. You should get nice Airy disks if all is good.

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Adonfff
journeyman


Reged: 10/13/12

Loc: Europe
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: UmaDog]
      #5842020 - 05/05/13 04:53 PM Attachment (72 downloads)

Hi,

I've been testing it on the Moon and it looks good.
I took pics with my phone sticked on the eyepiece.
I used 17mm Ethos and Nagler 31.

Didnt check for my mirror-spot center but collimation looks good.
Star test is still wierd, cant get the same view intra and extra focus, cant even see any ring in extra.

Edited by Adonfff (05/05/13 04:54 PM)


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Adonfff
journeyman


Reged: 10/13/12

Loc: Europe
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Adonfff]
      #5842026 - 05/05/13 04:57 PM Attachment (92 downloads)

17mm

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GeneT
Ely Kid
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Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Adonfff]
      #5842203 - 05/05/13 06:29 PM

Quote:

Alt and Az movements are hard to set because the structure move a lot when temp drops and brakes doesnt work properly until set again but still not very stable anyways, cant put the eyepiece without everything inside going all around.




Could you clarify? This does not sound good.


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sopticals
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Reged: 03/28/10

Loc: New Zealand
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Adonfff]
      #5842649 - 05/05/13 11:06 PM

Quote:

17mm




Nice phone pic.

Stephen.(44deg.S.)


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UmaDog
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: sopticals]
      #5842972 - 05/06/13 06:22 AM

Those are nice phone pics. Really impressive. I don't know a huge amount about the star test, but it doesn't right that you can't see any rings on one side of focus. Are you sure you're not defocusing too far? Take the scope a club and see if there's someone there who can have a look at it.

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hbanich
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: UmaDog]
      #5843884 - 05/06/13 04:04 PM

You'll need to use relatively high power for a proper star test, something like 300x or more will show the in and out of focus diffraction patterns well enough to judge them properly.

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bradynel
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Reged: 02/13/12

Loc: Ajax, ON
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: hbanich]
      #6011397 - 08/07/13 12:26 PM

Never had an issue with mine. I use a 6mm eyepiece for the star test. It's been great even in a red zone.

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UmaDog
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: bradynel]
      #6013044 - 08/08/13 08:08 AM

Why would a star test not be good in a red zone?

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alexvh
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Reged: 07/29/07

Loc: South Africa
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: UmaDog]
      #6120046 - 10/06/13 04:08 AM

How's everyone finding their hubble scopes??
I was curious- if you get a dud mirror, can a sandwich mirror be reconfigured like a normal one??


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pstarr
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: GeneT]
      #6120212 - 10/06/13 09:04 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Alt and Az movements are hard to set because the structure move a lot when temp drops and brakes doesnt work properly until set again but still not very stable anyways, cant put the eyepiece without everything inside going all around.




Could you clarify? This does not sound good.




It would seem that most bargain priced Dobs need to be reworked to some extent if you want decent rigidity and movement. Sounds like this one is no exception.


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acochran
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/19/08

Loc: So. CA
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: alexvh]
      #6121557 - 10/07/13 12:03 AM

Alexvh: Do you mean refigure the mirror? Yes I think some opticians do. Here in the USA try OWL and Steve Swayze. In your country, I don't know.
Andy


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alexvh
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Reged: 07/29/07

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: acochran]
      #6124005 - 10/08/13 01:51 AM

but is there anything about a "sandwich" mirror that makes it different?

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acochran
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Reged: 06/19/08

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: alexvh]
      #6124052 - 10/08/13 02:40 AM

Alexvh:
Yes.
Look for pictures of HO sandwich mirrors on the Internet (see the link below). Maybe on HO's web site?
A sandwich mirror is not one solid piece of glass like a traditional telescope mirror. It has an open air gap sandwiched in the middle. Thus it acclimates to the outside air temperature faster than a solid mirror.
See picture link below.
Andy
[image]/http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4670606322041656&w=252&h=179&c=7&rs=1&pid=1.7[/image]

Edited by acochran (10/08/13 03:15 AM)


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alexvh
sage


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Loc: South Africa
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: acochran]
      #6124421 - 10/08/13 09:31 AM

sorry acochan I don't think im making myself clear: I mean, can a hubble optics sandwich mirror be refigured the same way a normal mirror can?

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TechPan6415
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: alexvh]
      #6125371 - 10/08/13 04:27 PM

Quote:

sorry acochan I don't think im making myself clear: I mean, can a hubble optics sandwich mirror be refigured the same way a normal mirror can?




Probably, to my understanding, re-figuring is polishing only, not grinding which would obviously put more pressure on the glass. It's not a flimsy mirror either, they had to grind it to get it where it is at in the first place.

So far, my 16" F4.43 seems really good, I have had some amazing views in it when the seeing was up to snuff. I have only been able to do a star test once and from that I could only guess that it might have ever so slight spherical aberration although I am not sure, I did my limited test at 386X.

The mechanical aspects of the bearings leave something to be desired, good thing I like fabricating things, I have some Ebony Star material I need to get around to installing. I did have my best ever viewing session a couple of weeks ago, great seeing, great transparency and *great* spot at over 11,000 feet in my super dark skies. The views with my 14mm and 25mm 100 degree eyepieces with nebula filters were jaw dropping incredible, the scopes size, weight and aperture are certainly a sweet spot for me so I don't regret the purchase.


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acochran
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Reged: 06/19/08

Loc: So. CA
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: alexvh]
      #6126203 - 10/09/13 12:38 AM

Quote:

sorry acochan I don't think im making myself clear: I mean, can a hubble optics sandwich mirror be refigured the same way a normal mirror can?



Alexvh: I think so, but not sure. You must ask a mirror maker. Here in the USA, I suggest Optic Wave Lab. or Steve Swayze.
Andy


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alexvh
sage


Reged: 07/29/07

Loc: South Africa
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: acochran]
      #6129013 - 10/10/13 12:38 PM

Thanks.., will do

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Shelton
newbie


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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #6160171 - 10/27/13 03:48 AM

Has anyone bought a Hubble Optics 14 or 16 inch yet? I am looking for a review; as I am interested in one, but I like to kick the tires first.

Mark


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acochran
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Reged: 06/19/08

Loc: So. CA
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Shelton]
      #6161083 - 10/27/13 04:55 PM

Reviews seem mixed. Maybe search for owners in CN signature and contact them?
Mass market optics is not a sure thing.
If I were looking to buy, I'd buy the thin light quartz mirror for sale in the CN Classified/ATM section (Its guaranteed) and have Dobstuff build me a scope around it. Lightweight, fit easily in my car, and great optics.
Andy


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Shneor
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Reged: 03/01/05

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: acochran]
      #6161815 - 10/28/13 02:46 AM

I had a couple of views last night through a Hubble Optics 18" f/4. Images were sharp (with quality eyepieces) and the optics looked very good. The strehl on the primary was 98.7. There was another of these present, I'm told that the strehl on that primary is 99.0, but I did not have a chance to look through it. From conversation with the owners, it looks as though Hubble is really selling kits, and assembly is probably not for beginners as the owners manual is poor.

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Peter Natscher
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Shneor]
      #6162605 - 10/28/13 02:02 PM

Hi Shneor,

How was the vibration settle-down time on this type of telescope? Was the ultra-light stable and still enough while your hand was focusing so that focusing was easy. It's great to hear that the optics are working well on this telescope. But I am a skeptic on how well the structural and mechanicals work on such a light-weight instrument. I've personally owned a couple of wobbly and vibration-prone telescopes (not ultra-lights) and that can ruin any optical benefits. If fine focusing is difficult and time consuming and a still image can't be maintained while you're pushing the scope without tracking, I don't know about this style of observing. At 200X, you'll be pushing the scope along every 30 seconds to keep the object centered in the eyepiece and the settle-down time will take another 5 seconds giving you minimal time to enjoy the sharp view. I guess low-power views at 100x with a very wide field eyepiece works fine, but I'm a higher-power guy who loves observing Hicksons, planetaries, planets and that requires a stable telescope, little vibration and good fine focusing.

Quote:

I had a couple of views last night through a Hubble Optics 18" f/4. Images were sharp (with quality eyepieces) and the optics looked very good. The strehl on the primary was 98.7. There was another of these present, I'm told that the strehl on that primary is 99.0, but I did not have a chance to look through it. From conversation with the owners, it looks as though Hubble is really selling kits, and assembly is probably not for beginners as the owners manual is poor.




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Shneor
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 03/01/05

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #6163080 - 10/28/13 06:09 PM

Hi Peter,
Everything was very stable. I was really impressed with the 18". I understand that Alvin Huey helped put them together, and of course the owners have added a few things (like baffles). No vibration while fine-focusing, no settle-down time needed when pushing it around. There's no wood, it's all aluminum (maybe some steel too, I'm not sure). I know what you mean, I tend to observe similar objects myself. But all was quite steady while moving the telescope and fine-focusing. I think it is very well built. I did recommend some type of tracking platform on principle, as the ones Gregg Blandin is making are very low-profile and foldable (faintfuzzies.com). I've had my Equatorial Platform for 18 years now, and I am so happy that I bought it. BUT - yes, it's very stable and sturdy.

Shneor
Quote:

Hi Shneor,

How was the vibration settle-down time on this type of telescope? Was the ultra-light stable and still enough while your hand was focusing so that focusing was easy. It's great to hear that the optics are working well on this telescope. But I am a skeptic on how well the structural and mechanicals work on such a light-weight instrument. I've personally owned a couple of wobbly and vibration-prone telescopes (not ultra-lights) and that can ruin any optical benefits. If fine focusing is difficult and time consuming and a still image can't be maintained while you're pushing the scope without tracking, I don't know about this style of observing. At 200X, you'll be pushing the scope along every 30 seconds to keep the object centered in the eyepiece and the settle-down time will take another 5 seconds giving you minimal time to enjoy the sharp view. I guess low-power views at 100x with a very wide field eyepiece works fine, but I'm a higher-power guy who loves observing Hicksons, planetaries, planets and that requires a stable telescope, little vibration and good fine focusing.

Quote:

I had a couple of views last night through a Hubble Optics 18" f/4. Images were sharp (with quality eyepieces) and the optics looked very good. The strehl on the primary was 98.7. There was another of these present, I'm told that the strehl on that primary is 99.0, but I did not have a chance to look through it. From conversation with the owners, it looks as though Hubble is really selling kits, and assembly is probably not for beginners as the owners manual is poor.







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sopticals
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/10

Loc: New Zealand
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Shelton]
      #6163878 - 10/29/13 02:38 AM

Quote:

Has anyone bought a Hubble Optics 14 or 16 inch yet? I am looking for a review; as I am interested in one, but I like to kick the tires first.

Mark




Hi Mark,

over the last three years I have purchased three HO 14" mirrors. The first (cost me US$355 on an ebay $1 reserve auction), was rated at 0.986 Strehl and was OK, but couldnt be used for really high magnification, (image breakdown was evident above about 200x). However to be fair I mainly blame its lack of performance on the fact that a) I silicone glued (3 point) to the mirror cell, and b) I used a GSO secondary mirror which could have been suspect?. The second mirror was rated 0.997 Strehl and 1/25 wave pv at the wave front. In my view this is a very good optic with no breakdown of image at high power. Didnt glue this one down and used a matching 3.1" HO secondary (this size to work with my binoviewing). The third, rated at 0.993 Strehl I bought on behalf of a third party, (still building his scope-so cant give a report on this one). I dont think one should take the performance figures quoted as being absolute, but I believe with the HO product of recent manufacture one can be fairly sure of scoring a decent very usable optic.

Stephen.(45deg.S.)


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Shelton
newbie


Reged: 01/20/13

Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: sopticals]
      #6163937 - 10/29/13 04:10 AM

Hi Stephen,

Thanx for the info. Sounds like a good option. I was in NZ back in 1982 and had a great time. I should get back that way one of these days.

Mark


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Shelton
newbie


Reged: 01/20/13

Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Shneor]
      #6163940 - 10/29/13 04:17 AM

Hi Shneor,

Thanx for the info. Where did you use the Hubble scopes? I live by Eureka, CA and would like to sneak a peak if possible. I too am a retired faculty guy (HSU). I am not getting any younger or stronger; so the light weight of the Hubble scopes attracted my attention.

Mark


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alexvh
sage


Reged: 07/29/07

Loc: South Africa
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Shelton]
      #6164499 - 10/29/13 12:39 PM

thanks for sharing this shneor!

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ed_turco
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 08/29/09

Loc: Lincoln, RI
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: sopticals]
      #6164505 - 10/29/13 12:44 PM

Quote:

... I have purchased three HO 14" mirrors. The first (cost me US$355 on an ebay $1 reserve auction), was rated at 0.986 Strehl and was OK, but couldnt be used for really high magnification, (image breakdown was evident above about 200x).




I find that Strehl rating to be a little suspect if images start to break down at a mere 15x/inch. I know that seeing can cause major problems most of the time but once in a while, such a mirror ought to be able to give great images at twice or even three times that 15x/inch.


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SLC Tortfeasor
member


Reged: 11/02/12

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: ed_turco]
      #6233659 - 12/04/13 04:24 PM

Hey all, please keep this thread alive! I'm learning a lot reading some of these invaluable reviews, and fantasizing about maybe buying one of these scopes one day.

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acochran
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/19/08

Loc: So. CA
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: SLC Tortfeasor]
      #6234083 - 12/04/13 07:41 PM

Quote:

Hey all, please keep this thread alive! I'm learning a lot reading some of these invaluable reviews, and fantasizing about maybe buying one of these scopes one day.



Fantasizing about a scope that has collimation drift and questionable optics? Not me.
Andy


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dtripz
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Reged: 04/01/08

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: acochran]
      #6234367 - 12/04/13 10:31 PM

The ul18 I own has image breakdown when using an eyepiece stronger than 9mm. While the structure is sound and has minimal collimation drift, the optics are quite poor. The coatings that come stock are terrible, the scope even arrived with hundreds of micro scratches all over the surface. However I was planning on having the mirror refigured so it wasnt a huge dissapointment, but would have been nice if the optics matched the false ratings.

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TechPan6415
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Reged: 07/29/12

Loc: Aspen, Co
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: acochran]
      #6234487 - 12/05/13 12:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Hey all, please keep this thread alive! I'm learning a lot reading some of these invaluable reviews, and fantasizing about maybe buying one of these scopes one day.



Fantasizing about a scope that has collimation drift and questionable optics? Not me.
Andy




Ahhh, good for you Andy, but given some of the positive reviews above, including mine, why the jabs anywhere you can put them?

Congrats man, this is my 200th and LAST POST!
Permanently signing out of "Snobby-Nights"....


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aatt
sage


Reged: 07/26/12

Loc: CT
Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #6235231 - 12/05/13 11:47 AM

Funny Techpan I have had similar experiences. One experience, relevant to this thread, was when I was deciding whether to go with Discovery 15"PDHQ or Hubble Optics 16" (HO). One response was "some people have time to deal with second rate businesses others don't" Comments like that sound like some rich guy who can't relate to money issues. Delos? Sure why not?!? I will get the whole set! For most of us, that kind of cash is simply not in the equation.I had to deal with a "second rate business" because I can't afford to buy an new Webster or Obsession telescope.I had to find a balance between optical quality, spare cash and a mount that was functional, but not smooth as butter. HO mostly is appealing to the observer with slim monetary resources, portability priority folks or the wealthy and capricious. HO's quality control does seem, from what I read here, to be variable.That being said,to address your "sayonara" to the forum, most CN folks seem to be just fine and not full of themselves or their money or whatever-unlike the guy who disingenuously praised me, with bowing emoticon, for "sharing my observations". It is an open forum and all types will contribute with either their helpfulness,snobbery and petty judgments being put forward.When you get a snob, the forum community is negatively impacted as people will either second guess themselves, fearing put-downs, as to whether or not they can authoritatively state something they think they know or whether or not they will be perceived as asking a stupid question. CN, and astronomy in general, is ill served by the egotists and the judgmental. You would think, that being focused on such an universal "high altitude" hobby, that folks would be "above" all of that, but it is sadly not the case. Overall, terminal anal sphincters aside, people here are pretty good and helpful. So I am staying in spite of the non-circumspect outliers. I am very glad, however, to have purchased a Discovery 15" instead of a HO 16".I could have very well have gotten a dud and had to shell out extra for a refigure. My Discovery mirror, even with dings in it, is a great mirror. So I am with you there-"second rate business"? I am laughing all the way to bank!

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TechPan6415
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Reged: 07/29/12

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: aatt]
      #6248119 - 12/11/13 11:41 PM

I sent my 16" HO mirror off to Steve Swayze today, not because I think it is bad, but because I actually think it is good. I'll confirm it and if it needs some work then I will get it done, it will still be cheaper than a Zambuto mirror and I won't have to wait the better part of a year.

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Pinbout
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Reged: 02/22/10

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #6248142 - 12/11/13 11:57 PM Attachment (7 downloads)

Quote:

I sent my 16" HO mirror off to Steve Swayze today




he really knows his stuff, very quick to know the right stroke for correction.


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TechPan6415
sage
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Reged: 07/29/12

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: Pinbout]
      #6257035 - 12/16/13 08:50 PM

Ok, the verdict is in from Steve, null test showed great correction, straight ronchi bands. He saw some very faint zones / roughness in the central areas, does not think it will give me any problems. It does have a hair of TDE at the very tip, perhaps 1/8th to 3/16th and could be masked to 1/8th if I wanted "perfection" as he put it.

So I thought I had a pretty good mirror, looks like I do, not sure if I will ever see the difference in having him work it over unless I am at 400-500x or more on the best possible night with the best possible collimation and cooling.

All in all, I paid my $2K for the whole scope and got better than I had hoped for.


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starman345
Wait, I'm Thinking
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Reged: 07/06/10

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #6257934 - 12/17/13 11:15 AM

Quote:

All in all, I paid my $2K for the whole scope and got better than I had hoped for.




I'm glad that worked out well for you. Steve's comments about the condition of your mirror sound very similar to what Normand Fullum told me when he tested my 14" HO mirror. Norm said he thought he could improve it and I wanted to get the very best out of it (I'm picky) so I went ahead with it and it is a better mirror now but it was a decent mirror before.


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TechPan6415
sage
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: starman345]
      #6257956 - 12/17/13 11:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

All in all, I paid my $2K for the whole scope and got better than I had hoped for.




I'm glad that worked out well for you. Steve's comments about the condition of your mirror sound very similar to what Normand Fullum told me when he tested my 14" HO mirror. Norm said he thought he could improve it and I wanted to get the very best out of it (I'm picky) so I went ahead with it and it is a better mirror now but it was a decent mirror before.




What were the biggest differences you saw in a visual sense after the refigure? I don't mind putting up the money since he has the mirror in his possession, and I live under far better skies than most in terms of darkness but if I only makes a hair of a difference on one night per year, I am not sure then...


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starman345
Wait, I'm Thinking
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #6258659 - 12/17/13 05:53 PM

I read your post in another Hubble thread about talking to Steve, it sounds like you have a keeper. It was interesting about the plate glass and cooling, that is exactly what N fullum told me, plate glass needs to be at(or as close as possible) to equilibrium to give good views. I was perplexed at the length of time it took the Hubble to cool down, especially since they advertise it cools very quickly. Last spring when the days were getting warmer but the nights still quite cool, some nights the mirror never gave good views and now I realize it was probably because the mirror couldn't keep up with the large temperture drop during the night. Not sure if fans would help that...anyway, enjoy your mirror!

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TechPan6415
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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: starman345]
      #6258925 - 12/17/13 08:36 PM

I just ordered Orion's 3 fan kit, it looks like I can use all three or just one so I can fab a snazzy duct system out of gatorboard and hopefully be good to go. Besides my Telrad, I was avoiding anything that needed juice but it looks like fans are unavoidable despite what HO says about these mirrors.

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Pinbout
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Reged: 02/22/10

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Re: Let's talk about the Hubble Optics UL16 new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #6259032 - 12/17/13 09:44 PM

shoot the fans thru stacks of coroplast, maybe between the layers?

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