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Project Galileo
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: Jefferson County, Colorado
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Project Galileo]
      #4928231 - 11/21/11 05:16 PM

Today I find myself pondering Hofstadter's law. I am always amazed at the difficulty of accurately estimating the time it will take to complete tasks of any substantial complexity. I am waiting for things that are taking longer than planned. I did just get a call from the powder coater however. I will pick the parts up later today. Woot!

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Project Galileo
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: Jefferson County, Colorado
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Project Galileo]
      #4929152 - 11/22/11 08:47 AM

I was able to pick up the parts with their new powder coating. They look amazing. As is the way of things I cannot get to the rebuild yet however. Thanksgiving travel plans keep me from it. For now my project waits. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!



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Slartibartfast
sage


Reged: 05/28/08

Loc: New Jersey
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Project Galileo]
      #4929340 - 11/22/11 11:10 AM

Doc,

Looking great! How thick is the layer of powder coat? Is it thick enough to interfere with the re-fitting of the parts (re-threading of screws, etc.)?

Also, has anyone tried picking up can of Krylon flat-black spray paint (or similar) and just spray painting the parts?


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Project Galileo
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: Jefferson County, Colorado
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Slartibartfast]
      #4938399 - 11/27/11 11:15 PM

Bart, the threads of all parts are protected at the powder coater's. He uses silicon plugs to fill them all so they stay pristine. Everything went together perfectly. I think it is just a matter of choice as to how to blacken the parts. I have seen many paint them, some flock, and others powder coat. I chose powder coating for its durability over paint. I also have a great connection with a powder coater so it makes the cost well worth it.

I got to tinker a bit today and put the truss poles and rims back together. Everything went together flawlessly. I am very pleased with how flat and deep black the parts are now.

I picked up some star washers to lock the upper truss pole screws to remove any wobble. This is common fix I have seen to improve the truss pole rigidity and thus improve collimation stability. I cannot say this was a huge problem with my scope but was such an easy modification I went ahead and did it.



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Project Galileo
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: Jefferson County, Colorado
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Project Galileo]
      #4938408 - 11/27/11 11:21 PM

I painted the fan screws and the fender washers I will be using on the spider. I used a flat black. I wanted to have the part of the screw that showed match the flat black of the powder coat.



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Project Galileo
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: Jefferson County, Colorado
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Project Galileo]
      #4938421 - 11/27/11 11:36 PM

I found some neoprene foam with adhesive backing at the hobby store. I used it to make a gasket for the back of the new part I made. I wanted to maximize the effectiveness of the fan by sealing any leaks along the back. This will ensure 100% of the fan's efforts will be to pull down air from the tube and to evenly cool the mirror. It will also keep the parts from grinding and scratching on each other. The strength of this product is amazing. I was able to cut it easily with scissors. I used the inside of the cast back piece as a guide and traced it onto the back of the neoprene. Then I cut out a thin a thin strip for the gasket.



The back peeled of easily and the stickiness is great. Once placed this is very stuck on. It made a great gasket.

Then I reinstalled the fan power LED and the fan's power plug. As you can see I also marked, set, and drilled holes for the fan.



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cheapersleeper
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/22/10

Loc: Sachse TX
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Project Galileo]
      #4938430 - 11/27/11 11:48 PM

Coming our very nice looking...

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Project Galileo
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: Jefferson County, Colorado
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Project Galileo]
      #4938444 - 11/28/11 12:04 AM

Ladies and Gentlemen, drum roll please.

Introducing my new fan. I chose the Noiseblocker NB-Multiframe S Series . The model I selected is the M12-S3HS pushing 73 cmf. I estimate this will turn over the volume of air inside the entire tube with the shroud on about twice every minute. The Multiframe S series is the first fan with a vibration-free fan frame and incorporates numerous other improvements, so that it is superior to standard fans in almost all aspects. It is a crazy cool fan with space age technology. Check out their product info. Neat stuff to a gadget geek such as I.

It came with a silicone gasket and attachment screws and all necessary wires.

I got to say "space age" again. I love this hobby.



The gasket fit perfectly and created a nice seal once installed on the fan. The corner mounts of this fan are silicone and really will dampen any possible vibrations. It soldered together neatly and has a nice wire wrap that give a great polished look.



I opted to fit the fan on the inside of the new rear seal. From the rear of the scope I think the simplicity draws attention to the diameter of the telescope making it look bigger. I like how it looks.



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Project Galileo
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: Jefferson County, Colorado
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Project Galileo]
      #4938476 - 11/28/11 12:38 AM

I had left over neoprene so I cut out some gaskets for the bottom of the weights to prevent scratching. This is some really strong stuff. I anticipate it will be very durable. Fit together it all is very tight. Me likey.



I cut some 1" dowel I had on hand into 2, 1/2" blocks, painted them flat black, and epoxied them onto the inside of the new seal. I put them 90 degrees apart and 45 degree from vertical to maximize their supporting abilities. I think the neoprene gasket's friction and the weights' bolts will hold the new rear seal in place. Just in case I wanted to have these inside support blocks to keep the plate from shifting over time. More importantly these blocks primarily will act as guides when removing and replacing the rear seal. I want to have easy access to the rear of the cell to periodically check the cell's floats positions. This will make handling the rear cell and repositioning it to bolt back on a snap.



The rear cell is almost complete! It is looking so good with the all black motif. I cut pieces of electric tape to use as seals for the now unused holes for the three legs and the old power plug. The rear is now completely sealed and the fan will be as efficient as possible.



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Project Galileo
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: Jefferson County, Colorado
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Project Galileo]
      #4938498 - 11/28/11 01:10 AM

The first owner made some collimation thumb screws. I never liked them much and the business end was too flat and uneven to be helpful. It used to be a chore to get them just right. So I made a call to Scopestuff and ordered their replacement knobs. They came with a nice set of instructions and look nice.



In the first picture from the side you can see a real difference in the profile of the previous bolt on the right to the Scopestuff bolts to the left. I still wasn't satisfied so filed them a bit more and the second side picture shows the result. These will be much more sensitive to adjustments.



I like how the new bolts look and they are a huge improvement to what I had. I also noticed the spider's vanes were loose. A quick adjustment with a screwdriver have them ready to reinstall.



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SteveG
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/27/06

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Project Galileo]
      #4939290 - 11/28/11 02:30 PM

Looking really nice! You're doing all the mod's I've done to my 10" LB. This is going to be a fantastic lifetime scope.

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Aperturefever
super member


Reged: 12/12/10

Loc: Lake Macquarie, Australia
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: SteveG]
      #4941858 - 11/29/11 11:24 PM

Coming together nicely, Doc ... a real quality build. Can't wait until you get it out under the night sky and hear how it performs - but then I'm getting ahead of the story a bit! In the meantime I gotta get me one of those space-age fans ...

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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Loc: Deep Space!
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Aperturefever]
      #4942435 - 11/30/11 11:08 AM

Excellent thread! Really nice work you have done here.

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Project Galileo
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: Jefferson County, Colorado
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #4945146 - 12/01/11 09:41 PM

Thanks for the props! I am having a blast.

Today I tackled the altitude bearings. I opted to go with Ebony Star bearing wraps with 1/8" thick, 1" x 3/4" PTFE pads. I ordered the supplies a few weeks ago and have been putting off this modification. I was unsure if I would just notch the pads into the sideboard or take 1/8" out of the whole circumference.

First I used contact cement to glue the Ebony Star strips to the bearing. I wrapped the laminate all the way around the bearing and left the seam upwards so it will not come into play with any telescope motions. This was pretty straight forward and went perfectly. Then I took all felt off of the sideboard that the bearing had been riding on.



It was time to test fit the pads and bearing. Just screwing them on this way was doable but seemed to elevate the whole bearing too much. I then tried just notching in the pads half their width with a flat file. This too had the bearing riding too high. Both ways improved motion but made the friction brake not line up and also made the bearing fit too closely at the top of the sideboard notch for free movement. The extra thickness added to the bearing by the Ebony Star made the bearing barely fit into the cradle at the top. It was just too snug for my likes this way.

I decided to cut out 1/8" around the whole bearing opening. I also looked at a thousand other sideboards and decided I didn't need all the extra material around the top of the bearing's cut out. It was so enclosed it made dropping in the lower OTA snug now. Further, I decided to cut 1 1/4" off of the top of each sideboard to make the base and the lower OTA the same height.

I measured and marked each top edge. Carefully I pulled back the black trim and taped it out of the way of where I was working. The cut went easily. I used a sabre saw and a new blade. A clamp and a piece of wood kept me straight. Then I cut the sideboard circle 1/8" over. I used the butt of a spray can to trace a radius for the top of each sideboard opening.



Here you can see each cut done with the laminate edging pulled back. Notice the rounding of the opening with the gentle curve I added to the top with the spray can guide. The top trim had creases in it from the old corner. I trimmed the edging back to that point. I also took a file to the corners and rounded them a bit like the originals. Then contact cement was applied to both sides.



After 15 minutes the edging stuck nicely and gives a nice finish. It looks like nothing had been done. Now I marked the position for the PTFE pads. I opted to place them at 45 degrees from vertical and 90 degrees apart from each other. A quick test fit showed me they fit perfectly and had even contact along the entire surface of all four pads. I did have to get a file out and level and square the wood underneath one of the pads. It took moments to fine tune the one pad to square. The rest fit just right!



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Project Galileo
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: Jefferson County, Colorado
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Project Galileo]
      #4945168 - 12/01/11 09:55 PM

The left over neoprene sheets from the gasket were cut into 3/4" strips for the exposed chip board where I removed the original laminate edging and felt. I opted for this edging because I had it on hand, it is strong as heck, and it won't kick off fuzz like felt. During the attaching of the neoprene I misplaced one of the strips and had to reposition it. Not so much. It took a chisel to take it off. This stuff is very stuck to the board and won't come off. I like how strong this edging is as well. The neoprene will protect things nicely and looks amazing. Further, I like how the original angles of the Lightbridge sideboards were kept. It really looks like it came this way.



The fit and finish of the PTFE strips is top shelf. I really like how this mod finished. Here is a picture of the blocks of scrap I cut off of the top of each sideboard showing just how changed the profile is now.



I am very pleased with the finished mod. Motion is ridiculously smooth now. The base also now sits 23 1/14" tall. The lower OTA is 23" tall. Not only do they now match in height but the shorter height helps me fit them into my Kia Soul better. The base previously had to sit more in the center of the car. The tall sides kept it from scooting over to the side of the trunk space due to the curved roof. That meant the whole second row of seats had to be down. Now it is short enough to push all the way over to the edge of the trunk space. That means I can keep half of the back row seats up when traveling with the Lightbridge. The dog can fit now and go with me!

This also means that my Lightbridge is now officially a hot rod now that it is "chopped".



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Slartibartfast
sage


Reged: 05/28/08

Loc: New Jersey
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Project Galileo]
      #4946134 - 12/02/11 01:51 PM

Doc,

This is great stuff! Thanks for taking the time to post the pictures and keep this thread going.

I have the Ebony star strips and PTFE pads to do this mod, but I haven't worked up the courage to make the mod yet. (I haven't had the time to devote to the project either).

I knew the Ebony star strips would add to the diameter of the ALT bearing and therefore make the bearing ride higher, so, I thought of notching out the felt at +/- 45 deg. for the PTFE pads (so they sit lower) and leaving the rest of the felt in place (this way the bearing can sit lower). (The felt would not come in to play, except as a covering of the particle board edge). I'm not sure that I would have the courage to trim away the sideboard with a sabre saw, though. You said the motions were improved without trimming the side board, so, that is reassuring to me.

My worry is that, with the aluminum bearing on felt as-is, and with 12 lbs. clip-on counterweights, I can balance my Stellarvue 9x50 RACI, RDF, and Nagler 31mm even with a light shield. If I make the Ebony star/PTFE mod, will it reduce friction such that I lose balance? (but gain smoother motions). That's really my worry.

My other worry (I worry a lot about this mod don't I? ) is that, as it is right now, the AZ and ALT motions have similarly high friction. If the ALT friction becomes lower (smoother motions) and the AZ friction remains high, then ALT-AZ motion combination gets a little wierd. There are PTFE pads between the base boards (in addition to the lazy susan bearing) that add friction (lazy susan bearing alone being quite low friction and I've read that the scope will weather vane in the wind with lazy susan bearing alone). I was considering the Ebony star ring.

Anyway, I hope you wouldn't mind a few questions: (1) how are the motions since making the mod? (2) did the mod change your ALT balance? (3) do you have the PTFE pads sandwiched between the ground board and base board (AZ)? (4) how are the ALT motions relative to the AZ (does the ALT-AZ system as a whole "feel good" as it were)? I would be really apreciative of any information you could give me on this...

Thanks!


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Slartibartfast]
      #4946417 - 12/02/11 04:29 PM

A really effective modification not previously mentioned is adding buttresses to the side panels of the rocker box. The lateral shimmy in the stock side panels is unacceptable, and adding a couple triangular buttresses to each side stiffens the base more than you can believe.
I recommend this modification.
Anyone who can cut down the side panels to make them clear doors more easily can manage the buttresses.


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Project Galileo
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: Jefferson County, Colorado
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Starman1]
      #4946614 - 12/02/11 06:21 PM

Bart,

I understand completely about putting this mod off. For what ever reason it had me a bit nervous too. I didn't want to wreck the stock boards or mess up my friction/stiction/motion balance. Ultimately I knew that if I blew it I could build a whole new base from plywood. I guess someday I will be building a new base anyway but hoped to put it off until this one is unusable. This base has lived a low humidity life and is still as strong as the day it was made. Anyway, I finally found the time and did it. I am very, very, very, happy I did.

I also thought I would just notch and angle the pads too. However, I found that once I had it done the bearing fit too snug in the sideboard opening, specifically at the top of the opening. The two corners were right against the bearing and rubbing ever so lightly. With the felt it would have made it way too tight. I had already taken it off and the bearing was just rubbing ever so lightly. After fretting about it I just decided to use the sabre saw and go slow and easy. It worked. Letting the saw do the work and not forcing it kept the blade square and the cut had a nice rhythm to it. It went way easier than I thought. Be sure to tape the surface of the white melamine board with masking tape to protect it. I got so absorbed I forgot to on the first cut. The saw left a scratch on the surface that is small but noticeable. I taped everything up afterward and no other scratches happened.

To answer question one I find the motions since making the mod are incredibly smooth. Buttery is a good term here. I would now compare the freedom of motion in altitude to be similar to the freedom in azimuth the Lightbridge has with the ground bearing. That being said I cannot give full comment. I have the mirrors out of the telescope for testing and possible refiguring. I only had the lower cell without mirror, bearings, and upper rings attached to the lower OTA for this mod and testing. I cannot speak to how it will behave once fully loaded. I expect it to be wonderfully easy. Perhaps too easy even. I have thought perhaps I should have gone with the larger 2" x 3/4" pads. I still may change. I thought I would wait until I had this set up fully loaded to decide.

In question two you wondered if the mod changed my ALT balance. No. The balance will be the same. However, the new freedom will expose any imbalance. I expect it will take some fiddling to get the balance just right. I will have to wait to do this until I have mirrors and the rest of my load on. I also will be running with a large finder and some extra up front weight. I am sure my balancing needs and efforts will come later. That being said I think this mod will improve functional motion so much that working out perfect balance will be easier and is a small trade off for the wonderful motion it has now. Really, it is nice. I foresee getting the balance to within two or three pounds of permanent weight and then using some sort of slide or removable weight system to make up for changes in eyepieces or positioning in the sky. This really is an evolution.

Question three is easy. I do have ptfe pads stapled between the ground boards. I took the ground boards apart to tighten the fittings of all the sideboards. While there I noticed the pads. I also ran a micro fiber over the bearings well and cleaned all of the surfaces that normally miss dustings while I had it apart.

Question four is also hard to completely answer since I don't have the whole scope assembled. However, I have an idea. I think that the overall feel of the scope with the PTFE mod is and will be wonderful. I am sure that the amount of effort I had to push to overcome the friction of the felt is gone. I would rate the motion in Alt and Az to be more equal and balanced comparatively to each other now too. At higher magnifications there was that over shooting of the target you had to do with the rebound after with alt motions. I had gotten used to it and I am sure this is what people mean when they talk about to getting used to a scope. This really feels like a different telescope now. It moves in altitude and azimuth so easily. It has a very polished, professional, constant, smoothness now in all ranges of motion. I personally love it. It will be a joy to track by hand at high mags now. I can see how others may feel it is too easy and in a wind there could be something to that. However, when the winds pick up enough to move the telescope my eyes water and I quit viewing. I personally like an easier moving telescope and think this will improve my high power viewing noticeably.

Maybe some other Lightbridge owners who have done the PTFE mod can chime in here and enlighten things too. What say you all?


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Project Galileo]
      #4946856 - 12/02/11 09:01 PM

My own scope has Ebony Star Formica on PTFE pads and moves very easily. Most people used to other dobs usually remark how easy and smooth my scope moves when they are sitting at the eyepiece, viewing.
The downside of that buttery, smooth, motion is the necessity to balance the scope differentially at nearly every altitude of pointing and with eyepieces of different weights.

It is a price I gladly pay because even in "Dobson's Hole" (i.e. the zenith), one hand on the top of the scope exerting finger pressure rotates the scope around the azimuth bearings smoothly and easily.

I have tracked the scope on some objects at 456X and the action is still smooth enough to follow the objects easily.
At 730X the scope's FOV was small enough that near-continuous tracking was necessary. Though smooth enough to do so, it was not a pleasant chore.

In practice, in the field, there is almost nothing that really requires magnifications over 250X, so I rarely go to 280X or 456X, though that latter magnification was necessary on some Perek-Kohoutek planetaries.

If it's windy, remove the shroud. That goes a long way toward preventing "weather-vaning".


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Project Galileo
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: Jefferson County, Colorado
Re: The Evolution of a Lightbridge 16. new [Re: Starman1]
      #4950325 - 12/04/11 08:39 PM

Today I solved a minor problem with the Lightbridge. Lifting up the UTA to attach it to the truss poles is a trick. You have to be a one armed Popeye holding the heavy and awkward UTA while delicately trying to thread the retaining bolts into the aluminum UTA rim. Sure, you can set the rim up on the extended and unused truss knobs but there is an instability with this even. Anyone who has ever set up a Lightbridge can attest to this setup dance. There is no easy way. Until now.

I repurposed an electrical box I had on hand. I thought the plastic from it will be easily worked into the new parts and strong enough for the my purpose. Taking the tin snips I cut a piece of plastic that was flat and large enough.



I measured and marked the piece I had cut into three, 1"x2" strips. I used the snips to cleanly cut the three tabs. Then the three tabs were filed a bit to smooth all the edges and give a rounded profile. I worked all edges with the file to make sure no sharp edges that could cut you were left.



Then I drilled out two holes. One hole was to fit a 10-32 screw, the smaller was a 1/8" hole to fit a nub on the cast truss pole connecting piece. On the cast aluminum truss pole connector there is an unused hole. It is tapped from Meade for a 10-32 screw. Around the hole is a raised and slanted circular area that has a nub at the top. I think they intended to use this hole and raised angled area for exactly what I decided to do. I am not inventing the paper clip here. I would think this is probably a common mod although I haven't seen it done much.



I made three of these plastic tabs with holes and found some 1/8" 10-32 screws and washers. The tabs were attached to the truss pole connecting piece with the nub in the small hole. Notice how the platform around the hole was originally engineered to tip the tab outward thus opening it towards the top.



The tab will catch the rim of the UTA now when setting up. It will be an easy lift to set the lip of the UTA into this cradle made by the new tab allowing you to let go and focus on screwing in the truss pole bolts. I will be spray painting the screws and washers flat black before all is said and done. This was a very easy and inexpensive mod that will make set up a breeze and much safer.



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