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Equipment Discussions >> Reflectors

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jgraham
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: Starman81]
      #5500724 - 11/02/12 11:14 AM

"But then, why bother, why not just google "Hubble" and be done with it? Faster, cheaper and the images are better...."

Ahhh, one thing that you learn real quick when you take your own images that the pictures that we're used to seeing have usually been processed beyond all recognition. Raw, unprocessed source images look a lot like the real thing and make the best darned star maps ever. Still, a camera can never capture the subtle beauty of the real thing. It's been such a joy to be able to move freely between the two worlds, imaging and visual, and how the two can drive and compliment each other. It has also tempered my aperture fever (to keep this on-topic) since my images show me exactly what to look for and where, so I get so much more out of the aperture that I have. This was a big factor in my decision to buy a LightBridge 16. I dearly love my biggo 16.5", but the LightBridge is just so comfortable to use I can relax and enjoy the view.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: jgraham]
      #5500759 - 11/02/12 11:32 AM

Quote:

Ahhh, one thing that you learn real quick when you take your own images that the pictures that we're used to seeing have usually been processed beyond all recognition. Raw, unprocessed source images look a lot like the real thing and make the best darned star maps ever. Still, a camera can never capture the subtle beauty of the real thing.




I do some imaging... But it's never satisfying. When the evening is done, I have spent the evening with a telescope and a computer and not the night sky... Sitting in a warm room with a computer controlled telescope taking images... why bother?

In any event:

When Aperture Fever Ends: When one realizes there is plenty to see in any telescope, binocular or even with the naked eye.. When one realizes it is not what equipment you bring to the site but what you yourself bring as an individual, as an observer.

The magic, it's inside each of us... not in the telescope.

There are nights I spend with a 60mm F/7 refractor and there are night I spend with a 25 inch F/5 Dobsonian... Both are magical.

Jon


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omahaastro
sage


Reged: 08/30/06

Loc: Omaha, NE
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5501025 - 11/02/12 02:06 PM

Make no mistake... today visual astronomy is where it's all at for me. But, if there comes a time, when my eye's are becoming the weak link where my 'equipment' is concerned, I'll gladly turn to digital astronomy to continue to get my astronomy fix. And is DOES make a difference, when you're seeing the 'feed' come in first hand.

For me, aperture fever does end at 30" by the way. <gulp/>


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jgraham
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: omahaastro]
      #5501122 - 11/02/12 03:26 PM

Many, many years ago a friend of mine had a chance to use the 60" on Mt. Wilson during the wee hours of a cold clear morning. His descriptions of what he saw have kept me dreaming ever since. If I ever get a chance to use a scope of that caliber...

If I could only win the lottery!


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stratocaster
sage
*****

Reged: 10/27/11

Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: jgraham]
      #5501661 - 11/02/12 10:10 PM

Quote:

Many, many years ago a friend of mine had a chance to use the 60" on Mt. Wilson during the wee hours of a cold clear morning. His descriptions of what he saw have kept me dreaming ever since.




Could you share those descriptions so we can dream also?


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jgraham
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: stratocaster]
      #5501734 - 11/02/12 10:51 PM

He said that the seeing and transparency was excellent. The view of Saturn was nothing short of incredible, like looking out of the window of a space ship. No ghostly detail in nebula, but wonderful wisps of smoke with beautiful, soft, pastel colors. No image can capture it. He actually had a couple of crude pictures of the Ring Nebula taken by holding a 35mm SLR up to the eyepiece. The eyepiece was a cobbled together affair of a focuser on a steel plate that mounted on the side of the scope in place of a spectrometer. They got the time on the scope because at the time the spectrometer was off of the scope for repairs.

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Daniel Mounsey
Vendor (Woodland Hills)
*****

Reged: 06/12/02

Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: apolloadama]
      #5502617 - 11/03/12 04:20 PM

Quote:

When does aperture fever end? 15"? 22"? 30"? Empty bank account? Grave? Never?




In my opinion, it ends when observers spend more time discussing the nature of the objects they're looking at rather than seeing them just for their face value.


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sopticals
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/10

Loc: New Zealand
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: Daniel Mounsey]
      #5502943 - 11/03/12 08:29 PM

I think for me it may have ended. Started out with 7mm in 1944. Progressed to 30mm in 1960. Attained 180mm(7") in 1962. Long hiatus. Then 8" through to 12" 2008ish. 14" 2009 then 25" 2012. If I want to make the same jump in photon gathering as between the 14" and 25.2" my next step up would need to be to 45.4"(probably not going to happen).

The BIG downside of increased aperture is the DECREASE in size of FOV. For instance a 30"f5 dob has a FOV of 1/3 the width of that shown by a 10"f5 dob. So actual area of sky shown by the larger scope is only 1/9 (11%) of that shown by the smaller, so framing of objects of any size becomes a problem.

Stephen.(44deg.S).

Edited by sopticals (11/03/12 08:31 PM)


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sopticals
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/10

Loc: New Zealand
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: sopticals]
      #5507700 - 11/06/12 11:14 PM

Hope I havent killed this thread.

Stephen.(44deg.S).


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Pinbout
Postmaster
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Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: sopticals]
      #5507742 - 11/06/12 11:57 PM

I'm like a fish in a tank, I grow to the size of my environment.

I have a small house with a small car. So when I'm sitting in my basement looking at my mirror/rocker box I just put together for my 12.5" mirror, I'm saying to myself, "I don't think I want any bigger in this house."



I really like my ugly 8in, its really a nice size to throw around and its like a rat bike, trashcan art.



so I don't even think about what it can or can't show.


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Dennis_S253
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/22/11

Loc: West Central Florida
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5507812 - 11/07/12 01:18 AM

Very good question. I have been happy for years with my B&L 4" SCT. Finding all them faint fuzzy's has been a lot of fun. The scope is getting old and I realized I wasn't getting a good view of Jupiter and Saturn (a while back). SO, I just bought a new to me scope. A 6" Newt, First view of Jupiter on a not so good night was pretty nice. I always wanted a 8" newt like my dad had yrs ago, but who knows if that will ever happen. I think Aperture fever ends when you realize enough is enough. Sometimes I set here reading post that so and so cant find such and such with the 6 or 8" so they want to get a 12". Anyway, I should have been out viewing tonight but, politics took over tonight. Also, had 1 to many beers. Clear skies...tomorrow

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Starboat
member


Reged: 03/14/12

Loc: Texas
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: Dennis_S253]
      #5513905 - 11/11/12 01:16 AM

Just remember one simple rule; never look through more aperture than you can afford.

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pstarr
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/17/04

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: Starboat]
      #5514168 - 11/11/12 09:58 AM

Quote:

Just remember one simple rule; never look through more aperture than you can afford.




If you do, try lifting it up before you buy.


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aatt
sage


Reged: 07/26/12

Loc: CT
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: pstarr]
      #5514596 - 11/11/12 02:48 PM

I just got a 15" and it was a huge leap for me. Invariably I found the views not as amazing as I had thought they might be, but I am still quite happy with them.I can see that the desire to see ever more will continue to be there, but I am at my limit for $, storage space and mass. This scope will pop a vertebra or two if you don't take care. Now I simply need to learn to see better.What I have should make that job a lot easier!

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DOTrevino
member


Reged: 11/16/09

Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: apolloadama]
      #5523160 - 11/16/12 04:31 PM

How does 70 inches sounds to you?

Apparently, there is no cure. Local news story


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: jgraham]
      #5523182 - 11/16/12 04:48 PM

Quote:

He said that the seeing and transparency was excellent. The view of Saturn was nothing short of incredible, like looking out of the window of a space ship. No ghostly detail in nebula, but wonderful wisps of smoke with beautiful, soft, pastel colors. No image can capture it. He actually had a couple of crude pictures of the Ring Nebula taken by holding a 35mm SLR up to the eyepiece. The eyepiece was a cobbled together affair of a focuser on a steel plate that mounted on the side of the scope in place of a spectrometer. They got the time on the scope because at the time the spectrometer was off of the scope for repairs.



I spent a night at the 60", looking at, primarily, objects better suited to smaller scopes with larger true fields of view. No one else wanted to look at the small distant galaxies I wanted to look at.
It didn't matter, because 1) the scope was poorly collimated, 2) the light pollution at mt. Wilson chopped off at least 2 magnitudes from what could be seen, such that a friend's 28" at a dark site outperformed the 60" by a good margin, 3) the extremely narrow field of view (10' max) ruled out 90% of the deep sky objects it would have been great to see in a 60", and 4) the 1900 lb mirror was not at thermal equilibrium because they make no attempt to air condition the scope to night time temperature during the day. Talk about thermal inertia!

Give me a good 12-20" scope under magnitude 22 skies any day. That 60" was VERY disappointing.


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: RAKing]
      #5523186 - 11/16/12 04:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

When does aperture fever end? 15"? 22"? 30"? Empty bank account? Grave? Never?




I do not think there is a cure, so aperture fever never ends. We just try to control it the best we can and that might be with a lack of money, time, health, or whatever.

I also think a lot of us use the "Two O'clock Rule" when considering a bigger scope. Anyone can set up a bigger scope at 8 PM -- but it's how you feel when you have to pack it up at 2 AM that often dictates how you feel about that scope.

I wish I could have a bigger scope, but even though I have the money I do not have the health to handle anything bigger than what I have right now. But I'll just keep saving and maybe someday.................

Cheers,

Ron



Why pack it up at 2am? Why not wait till sunrise and pack it up in the light? If you try to drive home at 2am, you'll probably fall asleep at the wheel and become a statistic. Better to view a couple more hours then sack out in the car/truck for an hour so you don't fall asleep on the way home. Safety first.


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: Daniel Mounsey]
      #5523191 - 11/16/12 04:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

When does aperture fever end? 15"? 22"? 30"? Empty bank account? Grave? Never?




In my opinion, it ends when observers spend more time discussing the nature of the objects they're looking at rather than seeing them just for their face value.




There are 2 sides to observing: Seeing, and knowing WHAT you're seeing. The first is a skill learned over a lot of years.
The second enhances the first and often prompts you to look at the object in a different way. Together, synergistically, they create a fuller, more complete, observation.
Aperture fever ends with a scope that's large enough to enable you to see what you want to see. Knowledge of what you are seeing is a process that never ends.


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Escher
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 08/30/07

Loc: Fenton, MI
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? new [Re: Starman1]
      #5523388 - 11/16/12 07:55 PM

I'll tell you on Sunday night if things go as planned - Got a line on the largest scope I will ever own - Meade 16 Starfinder... IF it pans out, and the weather holds - I'll be observing Sunday night from the POD.

This was an "on a whim" deal. I sold a bunch of EP's to get an imaging refractor... and then this popped up and I was like "WHy not?? I've never used a 16""... So Maybe it'll be up for sale again in a week, or maybe I'll fall in love and want to live in the POD!


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aatt
sage


Reged: 07/26/12

Loc: CT
Re: Aperture fever, when does it end? [Re: DOTrevino]
      #5523426 - 11/16/12 08:25 PM

70 inches sounds great if someone else moves and stores it!

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