Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Reflectors

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | (show all)
Busguy
member


Reged: 06/14/07

Loc: Kentucky
Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5619401 - 01/12/13 04:36 PM

Bob, I would also like to add my thanks for your reports. I imagine I will need hands on with my own scope to sort out Mallincam. That's the joyful experimentation. First I need to take delivery of the telescope. Been a long wait.
Look forward to further reports.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sgt
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/17/05

Loc: Under the southern horn of the...
Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: Busguy]
      #5619467 - 01/12/13 05:14 PM

Thanks for the report Bob!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
a__l
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/24/07

Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5619596 - 01/12/13 06:27 PM

Quote:


I measured the distance from the back of the SIPS lens to the edge of my SIPS focusing tool and it was exactly 55mm for my scope. From now on, I can just use that figure to set the distance and not worry about any of the other shenanigans. Simplicity is why I bought the SIPS and I do not want to have to be fiddling with it very often. Bob




Bob, an additional question. In this position SIPS, you adjust the focus with the Ethos-17?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bob S.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/05

Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: a__l]
      #5619640 - 01/12/13 06:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I measured the distance from the back of the SIPS lens to the edge of my SIPS focusing tool and it was exactly 55mm for my scope. From now on, I can just use that figure to set the distance and not worry about any of the other shenanigans. Simplicity is why I bought the SIPS and I do not want to have to be fiddling with it very often. Bob




Bob, an additional question. In this position SIPS, you adjust the focus with the Ethos-17?




No at 55mm out, the SIPS is properly focused for my telescope. The 17mm can then be a reference for where it comes to focus best. It is takes about 1/2 turn of the fine focuser to get it to come to focus for Fast Mike's scope. I am not exactly sure with the arbitrary 55mm that mine is out how much more outfocus the 17mm Ethos will demand to come to focus? Bob


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bob S.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/05

Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5619669 - 01/12/13 07:08 PM

A very interesting topic of conversation came up on the Yahoo Lockwood Mirror site concerning my temperature management system dubbed a CBLMS (Comprehensive Boundary Layer Mitigation System). Mike Lockwood advised that for many years he has noticed that the sea breezes at the Winter Star Party in the Florida Keys seems to help many of the Newtonians to perform at higher levels than might be expected elsewhere. Mike suggested that the ability to cool the mirror from all sides that the sea breezes provide may be a large factor in mitigating other temperature-related variables such as body temp, ground temperature, scope materials that may be deleterious to the microcosm of an environment just above the surface of the primary mirror. Lockwood advised that his 20" f/3 that is also 1.25" thick seems to perform better when the breezes kick up a bit at his prarie location. He does not have fans on his 20" f/3 Starmaster and appears to have noticed beneficial effects from the entire mirror being bathed in constant temp air. I hadn't thought this completely through before but I suspected that ground heat and certainly body heat could affect the seeing environment inside our Newtonian telescopes. Daniel Mounsey has been a very strong advocate for the degradation caused by scope positioned down wind from our hot bodies. It also makes great sense to me that head radiating from below the scope would not benefit seeing and that is why scopes set up on cool grass as opposed to hot concrete/asphalt seem to perform better. Wow! This is an interesting turn of events. From my early data, there seems to be little doubt that the CBLMS is additive and much more so with both fans running simultaneously. Bob

Edited by Bob S. (01/12/13 07:14 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
a__l
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/24/07

Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: Busguy]
      #5619671 - 01/12/13 07:09 PM

Quote:

Bob, I would also like to add my thanks for your reports. I imagine I will need hands on with my own scope to sort out Mallincam. That's the joyful experimentation. First I need to take delivery of the telescope. Been a long wait.
Look forward to further reports.




If I understand correctly, the spare travel for Mallicam is 6 mm (with unknown settings SIPS).
Further, an additional limit of 10 mm height spacer + 1.25/2" adapter (height not known). It is not known whether the set HDX2-F kit (camera XTREME), the limit may be higher.
If replacement mode 1.25 to 2" (new 2" Focuser Dob Adapter for Mallincam - $ 89.99) get spare travel 10+6+(?) mm (minimal).
Since the field Mallincam little, there is a chance to try MFR-3+10 mm spacer (travel 14 mm).
But! All these issues need to be clarified with the manufacturer Mallincam.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike Lockwood
Vendor, Lockwood Custom Optics
*****

Reged: 10/01/07

Loc: Usually in my optical shop
Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5621886 - 01/13/13 11:07 PM

In comment to Bob's most recent post, what is important here is that now the conditions are present/satisfied that allow very fine differences in performance to be discriminated.

With 1) good optics, 2) good mirror support (edge and back), 3) good collimation, and 4) good equilibration made possible by the fans and thin mirror, the scope is performing up to the potential of a quality 20" visual instrument.

The conventional technique of blowing air on the back of mirror will help for a while, but it causes an uneven temperature distribution in the mirror and eventually when the mirror does cool it starts pulling the warm air off the ground back up into the mirror box. The cooling system in the 20" f/3 avoids that, and cools all sides of the mirror much more evenly, something that I have recommended for years to those that have asked me. Even cooling is vital for the ultimate performance on most nights. While one may get lucky with conditions on a few nights a year, with a cooling system like this there are going to be a lot more of those amazing nights.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bob S.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/05

Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: Mike Lockwood]
      #5630722 - 01/18/13 10:32 PM Attachment (80 downloads)

Finally, Even with seeing being 5/10 (Jupiter was boiling even at low mag) and a half moon about 35 degrees away from the Horsehead Nebula, I was able to finally deploy my Mallincam Xtreme connected to my integrated laptop computer in the 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft telescope. I was able to get very good images up to 65 second exposures which is unreal! I am including a screen shot of the control center values for the Mallincam and then an unretouched photo of the Horsehead nebula displayed on my 3.5" Watec monitor with a 55 second integration.

Edited by Bob S. (01/19/13 07:36 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bob S.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/05

Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5630725 - 01/18/13 10:34 PM Attachment (70 downloads)

Here is my poor photo of the Watec monitor and a 55 second integration on the Mallincam. I was able to use the MFR-3 and a 5mm spacer and was able to keep the SIPS system in place. I had to rotate the SIPS system in about 4 complete rotations to get the Mallincam to come to focus with a little infocus left (about 1/2 turn of the fine focuser knob on the Feathertouch). BTW, I left the Comprehensive Boundary Layer Mitigation System on at their lowest speeds and the fans being on another circuit did not seem to affect the Mallincam images on the monitor.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bob S.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/05

Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5631115 - 01/19/13 07:32 AM Attachment (69 downloads)

Here is a closeup of the Mallincam Xtreme in the focuser and you can faintly see the Horsehead Nebula on the Watec screen with my handheld camera's flash wiping out most of the percept you are seeing (you can see the star field and better image without the flash in the post just above this one). The extra dangling cable is a connnector for a Baluns that would allow S-video output that is remotely located on the side of the mirror box that can then run out to a larger monitor or be the terminus for a wireless transmitter. Those features will be utilized further down the line. I am absolutely delighted that another proof of the concepts we integrated into the scope are bearing fruit. As many of you ATM'ers know, you do your exhaustive homework, think and re-think all of the various components and then roll the dice. I also need to do a serious shout out to Gary Myers of ServoCat for producing a drive system that has allowed me to get round stars on the Mallincam with 65 second integrations. I am not sure what the upper limits are yet on the whole system? Thankfully, we did not roll "snake eyes" last evening

Edited by Bob S. (01/19/13 05:07 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bob S.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/05

Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5634036 - 01/20/13 10:19 PM Attachment (60 downloads)

Well, This is my last installment for a while. Getting bilateral cataract surgery this coming week with one eye done on Wednesday and two weeks later the other eye that will take me out of viewing for about a month. Hopefully, I will get back a bunch of blue spectrum perceptual capability that will allow me to play in the Calcium-K band with my solar scope. However, tonight, I played with the Mallincam Xtreme and a MFR-6 with two 10mm spacers and a 1.25" nosepiece and had a lot of back focus capability. As some of you know, the MFR-6 is the back lens of the MFR-5 ensemble that was designed for SCT's. When I tried the MFR-3 with a 5mm spacer, I had very little backfocus available. The MFR-6 with two 10mm spacers and the 1.25" nosepiece seem to be the best bet. In all cases, the SIPS system was turned all the way in to allow for adequate focus capability. If you compare the picture of the focuser positions with the Mallincam on the Horsehead and the MFR-3 with 5mm spacer, you will not that it is almost fully racked in. In the second picture below with the Crab Nebula and the MFR-6 with 20mm of spacers and the 1.25" nosepiece, the focuser is racked out probably about 8-10mm. The view below is of M1, the Crab Nebula only about 20-25 degrees from a more than half full Moon moving up toward zenith with a 50 second integration of the Mallincam. The pinks, whites and tendrils of the Crab were a bit washed out with so much Moon out but it was still a very pretty sight.

Edited by Bob S. (01/21/13 10:02 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bob S.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/05

Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5634039 - 01/20/13 10:21 PM Attachment (51 downloads)

I also decided to play with the various preset settings on the Mallincam control software and looked at M42, the Moon and Jupiter. Here is a picture I took of the Moon displayed on the Watec. I am favorably impressed with the strides Mallincams have made on lunar/planetary objects. Carl Wright here in Florida has been getting phenominal images of the planets with his 22" Starstructure for years but he had to learn how to play with the settings. The presets make it easier for us less ambitious folks.

Edited by Bob S. (01/21/13 08:24 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bob S.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/05

Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5634044 - 01/20/13 10:24 PM Attachment (59 downloads)

And finally, a 3 (three) second integration of M42 with M43 peeking out with the very fast speed of this telescope coupled to the focal reducers. You can see that the Trapezium in Orion is blown with only a 3 second integration. You can also see the ethereal view of the nebula as you get a sense of flying into the center of the stellar generator. The camera control software is new to me so I was not facile enough to fool with the gain and tone down the exposure in the time alloted for what I wanted to do on my last night out for a while. Well, it has been a lot of fun helping to prove the concepts that John Pratte, Mike Lockwood, Gary Myers and myself put together. I also want to say a big thanks to Joe Wambo, Jimmy Lowery, Mara Da Lio and many others who helped make this 20" f/3 a real jewel of a scope. The telescope is working exceptionally well and it will be providing years of fun and enjoyment. I really look forward to sharing a lot of fun views with others. The only problem is that the telescope is so darn beautiful to me that I am going to have a hard time ever wanting to move it away from the confines of my property to darker sites and risk putting dings in it

Edited by Bob S. (01/20/13 11:12 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bob S.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/05

Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5634106 - 01/20/13 10:59 PM Attachment (51 downloads)

Sorry that this thread has been so long but you know how it is when you get old. It takes forever to complete a few tasks, let along tell a bit of story about a scope's adventures.

Edited by Bob S. (01/20/13 10:59 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Project Galileo
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: Jefferson County, Colorado
Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5634217 - 01/21/13 12:30 AM



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nicknacknock
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 02/20/12

Loc: In a galaxy far far away...
Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: Project Galileo]
      #5634288 - 01/21/13 01:35 AM

Bob been reading this thread for quite a while and it's been an adventure! Best of luck with the surgery.

CS,

Nicos


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
a__l
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/24/07

Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5634332 - 01/21/13 03:31 AM

Quote:

However, tonight, I played with the Mallincam Xtreme and a MFR-6 with two 10mm spacers and a 1.25" nosepiece and had a lot of back focus capability.





Bob,
What is the total length MFR-6 + 10 Spacer+ 10 Spacer + 1.25" nosepiece?
Risk of contact lens paracorr?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bob S.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/05

Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft new [Re: a__l]
      #5634461 - 01/21/13 08:12 AM

a____i, From the tip of the 1.25" nosepiece to the base of the ensemble where it butts up against the brass retaining ring that keeps the chip in place on the front of the Mallincam is 42.5mm. I also used it with only 1 10mm spacer in the 32.5mm mode. Did not seem to make much of a difference between using one or two spacers. I know it changes the focal reduction but on the little Watec screen, it did not seem to make much of a difference. Nicos, I wish I could have views that you are going to get with your new Sumerian 12" telescope on your lovely island. Thanks for the kind thoughts. Bob

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft [Re: Bob S.]
      #5634905 - 01/21/13 12:49 PM Attachment (33 downloads)

Bob nice scope! Also, good luck with your surgery. Is that a heated eyepiece box I have circled in your pic?

Cheers,


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bob S.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/05

Re: First Light On My 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5634915 - 01/21/13 12:56 PM Attachment (33 downloads)

Markus, No, that is the cork-lined telescope control center that houses a laptop, Argo Navis DSC's, laptop dew heater for the screen, wired handpad and wireless hand pad with receiver underneath the control center housing. It also connects to the Mallincam via a USB port and has a planetarium program that will run the telescope. The orangish Kendrick laptop heating pad actually goes behind the back of the gorilla glass screen on the laptop. The Dell XPS13 has a solid state hard drive that I think has a 500 gig capacity and no moving parts. I purposely put it on the opposite side from where I am viewing so it does not interfere with seated or standing visual observations and also throws any light away from the telescope. The control center is on a stalk that is totally internally wired and easily removable and derives its power from the one input from my 102 amp/hour marine battery that goes into the powered ground board with one 15 foot long thin cable. The stalk also has a power transformer built in that supplies the proper power requirements to my laptop as well as the Argo Navis. What is really neat about the system is that with the wireless handpad, I can do my two star alignments and use the GOTO button to enter button presses into the Argo Navis without physically having to be at the AN. The only battery on the telescope is in the Telrad but the Telrad reticle is heated by part of the internal wiring system. There are three individual electrical circuits in the scope (1= fans/dew heaters systems 2= ServoCat power sources 3=camera power supplies). The systems were isolated to prevent radio frequency noise from interfering with the Mallincam camera system/display. When I am at the eyepiece, if the object is not exactly centered, I have the ability to slew the telescope with the ServoCat III system at four different slewing speeds. It also has two speeds for spiral search. Additionally, the whole system has two overall speed settings for all of the individual functions. It was a good thing that John Pratte is really up on electronics although he is a chemical engineer by prior training. Bob

Edited by Bob S. (01/23/13 05:31 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | (show all)


Extra information
14 registered and 24 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  ausastronomer, Phillip Creed, JayinUT, okieav8r 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 18710

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics