Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Reflectors

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | (show all)
denis0007dl
sage
***

Reged: 04/17/12

Loc: Croatia
Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK
      #5608116 - 01/06/13 11:22 AM

Let me know your opinion!

Edited by denis0007dl (01/06/13 11:49 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Cotts
Just Wondering
*****

Reged: 10/10/05

Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5608190 - 01/06/13 11:58 AM

Zambuto, by a big margin.

Dave


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nevy
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 02/07/12

Loc: UK
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Cotts]
      #5608194 - 01/06/13 12:00 PM

No contest , ZAMBUTO

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
denis0007dl
sage
***

Reged: 04/17/12

Loc: Croatia
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: nevy]
      #5608216 - 01/06/13 12:10 PM

What is lambda factor in Zambuto mirrors and what reflectivity?

Orion UK have 97% reflectivity and 1/10 lambda best mirrors to offer!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JohnMurphyRN
sage
*****

Reged: 09/09/12

Loc: Near St Louis
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5608219 - 01/06/13 12:12 PM

My Discovery is noticeably better than a buddy's Orion. However, I don't have any illusions about it being of Zambuto's quality.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: nevy]
      #5608224 - 01/06/13 12:13 PM

If you have a chance to get a Carl Zambuto mirror and you can afford one, then just do it. You'll be in possession of a mirror from one of the world's finest makers.
There are other superb mirror makers, but I don't think there are any commercial makers that are better.
The other 2 you mention are decent mirror-making companies, but not in the same tier of makers as Zambuto.
Here is a link:
http://zambutomirrors.com/


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
panhard
It's All Good
*****

Reged: 01/20/08

Loc: Markham Ontario Canada
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Starman1]
      #5608250 - 01/06/13 12:24 PM

+1 If only I had the money.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Fred1
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/19/07

Loc: Somewhere in the Orion Spur
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: panhard]
      #5608295 - 01/06/13 12:51 PM

Shameless self-agrandization An Afternoon With Carl Zambuto.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
johnnyha
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5608343 - 01/06/13 01:12 PM

Quote:

What is lambda factor in Zambuto mirrors and what reflectivity?

Orion UK have 97% reflectivity and 1/10 lambda best mirrors to offer!



Here is the only Rohr test on a Zambuto that I could find, looks pretty darn good to me. Of course this is only a 10" f6 but all of his mirrors are made to the same level of perfection.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5608347 - 01/06/13 01:14 PM

None of them! Coulter is da best,

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dpwoos
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/18/06

Loc: United States
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5608392 - 01/06/13 01:37 PM

Quote:

What is lambda factor in Zambuto mirrors and what reflectivity?

Orion UK have 97% reflectivity and 1/10 lambda best mirrors to offer!




I would be careful with the "97% reflectivity" thing, which speaks to the coating and not the mirror. In addition, there is ongoing debate about what kind of coating is best, and it may be that the coating with the highest initial reflectivity ends up NOT being the best after exposure to the environment. Finally, all claims like "1/10 lambda" are imprecise and ambiguous. The only test that you can 100% trust is what you experience when viewing with the optic, which is why I believe that Zambuto doesn't mess with these kinds of numbers at all. His reputation and past performance carries more weight than loosey-goosey numbers.

Edited by dpwoos (01/06/13 01:43 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
André Heijkoop
member
*****

Reged: 05/02/10

Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: dpwoos]
      #5608418 - 01/06/13 01:48 PM

For those living in Europe, Mirro-Sphere in France:
http://www.mirro-sphere.com/topic/index.html


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bill Weir
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/01/04

Loc: Metchosin (Victoria), Canada
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: André Heijkoop]
      #5608599 - 01/06/13 03:00 PM

Mike Lockwood currently has a 10" ready to go. http://www.loptics.com/stock.html

Bill


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
deepskydarrell
member


Reged: 03/09/08

Loc: Abbotsford, BC Canada
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Bill Weir]
      #5608702 - 01/06/13 04:01 PM

Carl Z currently has a 12 inch and a 10 inch F/6 ready for sale. http://zambutomirrors.com/zambutoopticalco.html

DSD.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sgt
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/17/05

Loc: Under the southern horn of the...
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: deepskydarrell]
      #5608792 - 01/06/13 04:44 PM

I would think Zambuto.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nevy
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 02/07/12

Loc: UK
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: deepskydarrell]
      #5608814 - 01/06/13 04:57 PM

Quote:

Carl Z currently has a 12 inch and a 10 inch F/6 ready for sale. http://zambutomirrors.com/zambutoopticalco.html

DSD.



Beat me to it , it's worth looking into because normally there is a 9 to 12 month waiting list for a world class performing zambuto mirror.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CHASLX200
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/29/07

Loc: Tampa area Florida
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: nevy]
      #5608823 - 01/06/13 05:02 PM

Zambuto all the way.

Chas


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jgs99v
member
*****

Reged: 06/05/12

Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: André Heijkoop]
      #5608970 - 01/06/13 06:09 PM

Quote:

For those living in Europe, Mirro-Sphere in France:
http://www.mirro-sphere.com/topic/index.html




Yes my experts - I'd like to hear more on the topic of finishes and oxidation over time etc....


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GeneT
Ely Kid
*****

Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Bill Weir]
      #5609024 - 01/06/13 06:53 PM

Quote:

Mike Lockwood currently has a 10" ready to go. http://www.loptics.com/stock.html Bill




If I were buying a new telescope, I would go either with a Zambutto mirror, or a Lockwood, (if I wanted a mirror faster than F4.) I agree spending the extra money for premium optics.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pinbout
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5609032 - 01/06/13 06:58 PM

You can always buy the other two and send them to Z to fix them

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JayinUTModerator
I'm not Sleepy
*****

Reged: 09/19/08

Loc: Utah
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5609099 - 01/06/13 07:32 PM

I own a Zambuto, I love my Zambuto and on those eight to ten nights a year I get that are what I call "Nights of Nights" the mirror just blows away my other mirrors I've owned. Then again, even on a rough night the contrast, the color, the sharpness and the smoothness of the mirror are just incredible.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sniperpride
super member


Reged: 01/04/12

Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: JayinUT]
      #5609224 - 01/06/13 09:02 PM

Have a feeling the OP does not realize how much Zs cost compared to the other 2

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nevy
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 02/07/12

Loc: UK
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: sniperpride]
      #5609236 - 01/06/13 09:10 PM

Quote:

Have a feeling the OP does not realize how much Zs cost compared to the other 2



Ya gets wat ya pay for.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bill Weir
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/01/04

Loc: Metchosin (Victoria), Canada
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: sniperpride]
      #5609496 - 01/06/13 11:56 PM

Quote:

Have a feeling the OP does not realize how much Zs cost compared to the other 2




He will if he clicks on either the Lockwood or Zambuto links. ; )

Bill


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nevy
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 02/07/12

Loc: UK
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Bill Weir]
      #5609784 - 01/07/13 09:04 AM

I'm that confident that zambuto is the best, I've orderd two.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cliff mygatt
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 01/27/09

Loc: Kitsap County, WA
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: nevy]
      #5609797 - 01/07/13 09:14 AM

I have a Zambuto in my Orion XT12i and have never looked back. You cannot go wrong with a Zambuto mirror. Carl's customer service is top notch as well. Good Luck!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tim Gilliland
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/09

Loc: Sand Springs Okla.
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: cliff mygatt]
      #5609813 - 01/07/13 09:30 AM

Quote:

I have a Zambuto in my Orion XT12i and have never looked back. You cannot go wrong with a Zambuto mirror. Carl's customer service is top notch as well. Good Luck!




I will second Carl's customer service. I have a Zambuto in my 10" newt that I image with, and I also view with a 17.5 f5 Discovery split tube.
Both give Very nice views. Imagine my excitment to discover I need a Dioptrx and probably have all along. Come on UPS!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
SeattleScott
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/14/11

Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Tim Gilliland]
      #5610058 - 01/07/13 11:53 AM

Comparing Orion UK, Discovery and Zambuto is like comparing BMW, Benz and Bugatti. BMW and Benz are excellent cars that most people will be very happy with, but they simply are not at the same performance (or price) level as a Bugatti. The remaining question is whether Orion UK or Discovery is better. I don't have a Discovery to compare to, and I have to admit my initial reaction is one of hesitation based on both having good reputations. What I do know is that you will get an Orion UK a heck of a lot faster than a Discovery (assuming you are buying a new, custom order). Mine took no more than six weeks including shipping from Europe.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bob N
member


Reged: 01/27/08

Loc: Illinois
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5610066 - 01/07/13 11:57 AM

I have owned mirrors from almost all well known mirror makers over the past 30 years -- and Lockwood and Zambuto are the only ones I'll ever buy from again.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bob S.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/05

Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Bob N]
      #5610119 - 01/07/13 12:21 PM

Quote:

I have owned mirrors from almost all well known mirror makers over the past 30 years -- and Lockwood and Zambuto are the only ones I'll ever buy from again.




Throw in Spooner and Harry for good measure<g>.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bob N
member


Reged: 01/27/08

Loc: Illinois
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: GeneT]
      #5610139 - 01/07/13 12:30 PM

Have to agree -- I've had mirrors from most of the current makers, and the only consistently excellent ones have been from Lockwood and Zambuto.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
VĂ­ctor MartĂ­nez
sage


Reged: 02/05/07

Loc: Cádiz - Spain
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Bob N]
      #5610160 - 01/07/13 12:42 PM

Quote:

I have owned mirrors from almost all well known mirror makers over the past 30 years -- and Lockwood and Zambuto are the only ones I'll ever buy from again.




I have not ever seen through a Zambuto or Lockwood mirror and maybe I'm missing something, but after more than 20 years of visual observer, I only know one thing, my Ostahowski's mirror is simply spectacular. If I need a new mirror I will confide again in Terry,


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: VĂ­ctor MartĂ­nez]
      #5610213 - 01/07/13 01:10 PM

The OP's question was about a ranking of 3 makers he mentioned.

Companies he didn't mention but should investigate (if Zambuto isn't chosen, for some reason):

Gordon Waite
OMI
Pegasus
Galaxy
Lightholder
Normand Fullum
Oldham Optical
1800Destiny

Plus all the ones already mentioned.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jitou
super member


Reged: 07/29/08

Loc: France
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Starman1]
      #5610565 - 01/07/13 04:48 PM

Quote:

@Don If you have a chance to get a Carl Zambuto mirror and you can afford one, then just do it.




Sure ! Mine has been ordered last September hopefully it'll be in my hands before the summer ... yep you have to be patient to touch the perfection.

By the way I used to have an Ostahowski Mirror (18 inch f/4) it's my first high grade mirror, what to say ? The views it gave me were terrific. Unfortunately I had to sell it (the same price I paid for it) because I needed a much smaller instrument to carry alone. Terry is surely on the top list and maybe very close to Zambuto.

I also want put your attention on a french mirror maker Mirrosphere who makes unbelievable mirrors probably the finest you can find here in Europe.

Edited by Jitou (01/07/13 05:06 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mr. Marbles
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/23/05

Loc: Saratoga Springs, NY
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Starman1]
      #5610575 - 01/07/13 04:54 PM

Quote:

The OP's question was about a ranking of 3 makers he mentioned.

Companies he didn't mention but should investigate (if Zambuto isn't chosen, for some reason):

Gordon Waite
OMI
Pegasus
Galaxy
Lightholder
Normand Fullum
Oldham Optical
1800Destiny

Plus all the ones already mentioned.




Don't forget Royce and his conicals.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Starman1]
      #5610626 - 01/07/13 05:47 PM

Quote:

1800Destiny




Don:

What is the story on their mirrors? Their secondary's seem to be at the GSO price points.

Jon


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5610646 - 01/07/13 06:09 PM

Jon,
I think Hans makes these in house. I didn't know they existed until Dennis Steele started offering them in dobstuff.com telescopes.
You might contact Dennis for his opinion.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pinbout
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Starman1]
      #5610752 - 01/07/13 07:11 PM

Quote:

Companies he didn't mention but should investigate (if Zambuto isn't chosen, for some reason):






no swayze?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5610876 - 01/07/13 08:37 PM

My list wasn't exhaustive. People who realize I left one out, please chime in.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
piaras
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/26/09

Loc: Niagara Region
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Fred1]
      #5610931 - 01/07/13 09:24 PM

I just read your field trip report. Excellent!

Back in late March '12, I contacted Carl via phone and we discussed making a 13" mirror to replace the Coulter mirror. He set aside a 12" that was extra thick, and he would recast it to make my 13". Well I got a heads up just before Christmas, it has moved to grind and polish.
Just a few weeks to go!
Pierre


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GeneT
Ely Kid
*****

Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Starman1]
      #5610967 - 01/07/13 09:43 PM

Quote:

OMI




I was disappointed in my 18 inch F4.2 mirror. Stellar points and planetary detail never provided the sharp, crisp views that I had hoped for. I have looked through Zambutto mirrors and all of them provided the views I had hoped for in my OMI mirror. If I were buying a new telescope, as said before, I would go with either Zambutto or Lockwood. I have read hundreds of posts on Cloudy Nights and not one person ever posted that they were disappointed with these mirrors. Of course, there are other good mirror makers out there also. Bottom line--I recommend getting the best telescope optics you can afford. They will last a lifetime. You will then know that the object you are viewing is the best it can be (if the optics are collimated, cooled, yada yada yada.)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Deep13
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/25/05

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: GeneT]
      #5611305 - 01/08/13 02:02 AM

I only know Zambuto and Orion UK by reputation, both being very good. I have two Discovery scopes and a third one with a Discovery mirror: 8" f/6 (2000), 6" f/5 (2002), and 12.5" f/5 (2005). The first two and I believe the third are all Terry O. mirrors and are very good. Properly cooled with good seeing the 8" and 12.5" give razor sharp planetary images. The 6" is very good too, it's just not a planet scope.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Zamboni
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/03/05

Loc: Colorado Springs
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: SeattleScott]
      #5612003 - 01/08/13 02:00 PM

Quote:

Comparing Orion UK, Discovery and Zambuto is like comparing BMW, Benz and Bugatti. BMW and Benz are excellent cars that most people will be very happy with, but they simply are not at the same performance (or price) level as a Bugatti. The remaining question is whether Orion UK or Discovery is better. I don't have a Discovery to compare to, and I have to admit my initial reaction is one of hesitation based on both having good reputations. What I do know is that you will get an Orion UK a heck of a lot faster than a Discovery (assuming you are buying a new, custom order). Mine took no more than six weeks including shipping from Europe.




This is a superb analogy. I have a 6 f/8 Discovery mirror (from when Orion's old "DSE" mid-90s dobs were manufactured by Discovery) and comparing it to more current Synta / GSO mirrors is like comparing a Porsche to a Honda.

Nonetheless, a Zambuto is on a whole 'nother level entirely. A Zambuto mirror is the reflector equivalent of an AstroPhysics Fluorite lens. Nigh unmeasurable abberations and the ability to gulp down magnification in a way that seems to defy the laws of physics. On a night of good seeing, the view of Jupiter through an 8" f/9 dob with a Zambuto mirror nearly made me soil myself.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Calypte
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/20/07

Loc: Anza, California
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Zamboni]
      #5612058 - 01/08/13 02:23 PM

WRT Discovery: They were pushing out a lot of scopes at one time, and individual mirrors weren't fussed over as (I assume) Zambuto does with one mirror for one customer. Terry O. is a personal friend of mine and near-neighbor (walking distance), so anything I say must be judged in that light. We've often chatted about the mirrors he did for discovery, in light of frequent comments in this forum. He still thinks most of them were pretty good, but he's learned a lot about testing since those days, as has (probably) Carl Zambuto, so I'm not surprised that Carl's mirrors might be better than average production Discovery mirrors. I assembled and tested three Discovery 8-inch f/7s for annual drawings that were held at the Starry Nights Festival (Yucca Valley, CA), and during my few minutes' of testing on Saturn through the clouds, I found them to be very sharp. But I never did a side-by-side with my own Cave 8-inch f/6, let alone a Zambuto.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bilgebay
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 11/06/08

Loc: TĂĽrkiye - Istanbul and Marmar...
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Calypte]
      #5612128 - 01/08/13 03:04 PM

I have two Zambuto mirrors on order, an 8" and a 12". At least 6 more months to go....

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Zamboni
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/03/05

Loc: Colorado Springs
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5612157 - 01/08/13 03:21 PM

If anything is worth a long waiting list, it's a Zambuto.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
pstarr
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/17/04

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Zamboni]
      #5612315 - 01/08/13 04:59 PM

Quote:

If anything is worth a long waiting list, it's a Zambuto.




I lucked into mine. Call it immediate gratification. He had two done at the time I was looking for one in 2005. This was before he sold to the public. Here is a short version of his letter to me after inquiring about a mirror.

Paul,

"This is your lucky day. For one day, and one day only, we will make
available to you a 10" F/6 Zambuto mirror!"

Okay, so it sounded like a commercial (sorry). Without the hype and
hyperbole, its funny you should ask right about now. I have two 10"
F/6 mirrors available for immediate sale. They arrived at the coater
yesterday, and I expect to have them back here week after next. At
that time they will be available for immediate shipment. This is the
first time they have been announced. So contact me privately. I'll try
to hold one for you.


Recently we have had a few spare days here and there to do smaller
mirrors "on the side". Such are the 10"ers currently for sale. We will
continue this as able. We do keep a list of interested parties for 10"
and 12.5" longer focus mirrors.


So Paul, send me a correspondence if you want a mirror.

Carl


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
george golitzin
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/24/06

Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Calypte]
      #5612475 - 01/08/13 06:35 PM

Quote:

WRT Discovery: They were pushing out a lot of scopes at one time, and individual mirrors weren't fussed over as (I assume) Zambuto does with one mirror for one customer. Terry O. is a personal friend of mine and near-neighbor (walking distance), so anything I say must be judged in that light. We've often chatted about the mirrors he did for discovery, in light of frequent comments in this forum. He still thinks most of them were pretty good, but he's learned a lot about testing since those days, as has (probably) Carl Zambuto, so I'm not surprised that Carl's mirrors might be better than average production Discovery mirrors...




Interesting...I've found some of Terry's mirrors to be really good--an 8-inch f/5 I had was a real gem, providing excellent detail on Mars at 350-400X. A 10 f/5.6 I had out of an old Orion DSE was a dog--badly overcorrected. The 12.5 f/5 I have now looks to be awesome: very smooth surface, with a beautifully balanced diffraction pattern breaking out at equal distances on either side of focus. However, I have to replace an astigmatic secondary before I'll know quite how good it is. From my signature, you'll see I have two Zambutos, both of which are marvelous. I would not sell either, except to finance a larger Zambuto. But I see no reason, at this point, to replace the 12.5 Discovery mirror--it promises to be a killer optic. I guess Terry wasn't always as consistent.

Gene's comment about OMI suggests they have some QC problems too. There was also some negative stuff about OMI at Wolfgang Rohr's site. But my OMI (18 f/4.2) provides pinpoint jewel-like stars and fabulous planetary detail--so again, no need to "upgrade" it.

So the bottom line is what, exactly? When you buy a Zambuto, you know you're going to get something that's as good as possible: if there's any problem in the image, it's the seeing or collimation or thermals or a fault of the structure. Certainly, if you want a reference mirror, he's the way to go.

But once you learn what a good mirror looks like, then you can determine if someone else's work is up to snuff--and I suspect, in the case of this 12.5 I picked up, that that is indeed the case.

geo.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Calypte
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/20/07

Loc: Anza, California
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: george golitzin]
      #5612602 - 01/08/13 07:49 PM

Quote:

I guess Terry wasn't always as consistent.



I have no opinion about that. But, again, keep in mind that the Discovery scopes were a production line item. I do know something about Terry's current shop environment, since he is usually polishing/figuring something when I go over there. Most of his work is for contracts -- industry, universities, government, a few for hi-end imaging telescope makers, plus many 6s through 12.5s made as catalogue items for a famous optical supply house. For the general public, he usually won't touch anything smaller than 17.5, since the materials and coating for a small mirror may cost more than a completed new mirror from China, and few people are willing to pay the difference. His shop is spotless and highly organized. He is fanatical about cleanliness. You could eat off the floor. All tasks are widely separated. Testing is done with an interferometer. Some mirror blanks have to be hogged out (depends upon the customer and what they've sent him), and that's done in a separate building using a diamond grinder. He has no carborundum in the shop. I recently saw a picture somewhere of another optician's shop -- don't ask whose, because I really don't remember, but it wasn't anyone discussed in this thread -- and what I saw in the picture looked like a grit-soaked hellhole.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ausastronomerModerator
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/30/03

Loc: Kiama NSW (Australia)
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: GeneT]
      #5612638 - 01/08/13 08:16 PM






I was disappointed in my 18 inch F4.2 OMI mirror.




Hi Gene,

I perceive a big problem with the OMI mirrors to be that they are all 2" thick. This IMO severely impedes their ability to cool and thermally stabilise. Unfortunately OMI only offer mirrors in 2" thickness at the present time.

My 18"/F4.5 OMI mirror (2" thick) is a decent mirror and delivers excellent star points and planetary images, when it cools properly. The problem is that it really struggles to cool under typical Australian temperature conditions. I actually have temperature sensors fitted to the mirror and an external temperature sensor, so I always know what the differential temperature of the mirror is. They very rarely get to within 3 degrees C of each other.

My 14" Zambuto mirror on the other hand is only 1.3" thick and cools beautifully, consequently it delivers to its maximum performance potential a lot more often. I have the same sensors on the 14" scope and it very quickly gets to within 1 deg C to 2 deg C of ambient quite quickly. That's not to say the OMI mirror is the equal of the Zambuto mirror optically, it isn't, but its still a very good mirror restricted only by its thermal properties, not its optical quality.

Cheers


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ausastronomerModerator
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/30/03

Loc: Kiama NSW (Australia)
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Bob N]
      #5612644 - 01/08/13 08:25 PM

Quote:

I have owned mirrors from almost all well known mirror makers over the past 30 years -- and Lockwood and Zambuto are the only ones I'll ever buy from again.




I would agree 100% with that comment based on my own experience and the misfortunes of several of my observing friends. You could add Mark Suchtings name to the names of Zambuto and Lockwood, but he is not taking orders at the moment and in any case the current $AUS exchange rate and shipping costs make it cost ineffective to buy a mirror from Australia and ship overseas.

Cheers,


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dave brock
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/06/08

Loc: Hamilton, New Zealand
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Calypte]
      #5612862 - 01/08/13 10:53 PM




Quote:

I recently saw a picture somewhere of another optician's shop -- don't ask whose, because I really don't remember, but it wasn't anyone discussed in this thread -- and what I saw in the picture looked like a grit-soaked hellhole.




Quite likely mine (although I'm not a professional). If so, looks can be deceiving.

Dave


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Deep13
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/25/05

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Zamboni]
      #5612907 - 01/08/13 11:16 PM

Quote:

... and comparing it to more current Synta / GSO mirrors is like comparing a Porsche to a Honda.




Kind of unfair to Honda which are reliably consistent.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Calypte
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/20/07

Loc: Anza, California
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: dave brock]
      #5612918 - 01/08/13 11:25 PM

Quote:




Quote:

I recently saw a picture somewhere of another optician's shop -- don't ask whose, because I really don't remember, but it wasn't anyone discussed in this thread -- and what I saw in the picture looked like a grit-soaked hellhole.




Quite likely mine (although I'm not a professional). If so, looks can be deceiving.

Dave



No. It was someone in the U.S., a name I recognized, but I'm not going to offer a guess, which is what it would be at this point.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
VĂ­ctor MartĂ­nez
sage


Reged: 02/05/07

Loc: Cádiz - Spain
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Calypte]
      #5613179 - 01/09/13 06:14 AM

I bought my mirror directly to Terry in 2010 and he told me that it was the best of two 16" mirrors that he had maked in his new business and that was really outstanding. I do not know if a few years ago when he maked mirrors in series for Discovery or another company, his quality control would be as comprehensive, but probably today if a mirror is ordered directly to Terry, I dare say that his quality will be exceptional. Mine, when seeing permits and well acclimatised, yields to a level that I think is almost insurmountable.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike B
Starstruck
*****

Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Deep13]
      #5613911 - 01/09/13 03:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

... and comparing it to more current Synta / GSO mirrors is like comparing a Porsche to a Honda.




Kind of unfair to Honda which are reliably consistent.




Yeah, i was gonna say this comparo missed the mark pretty badly; if given such a choice, i'd take the Porsche...

Then i'd sell it, buy the Honda, and pocket the diff as a windfall!

But as we say with optics & telescopes, YMMV.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jpb30
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 06/18/10

Loc: Uzès ( France)
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Mike B]
      #5627357 - 01/17/13 02:13 AM

Hello
use for 1 month a mirroir 17 "5 F/D 4 Zerodur Ostahowsky optic, and since I make of the astronomy ( 35 years) it is certainly the best optics through which I observed!!!
In visual in December I was able to observe details of all the satellites jupiter in 900X, it was extraordinary!!! No light diffusion, What proves a roughness of the optical surface very low;Fabulous!!!

Terry possesses a workshop and a excellent interferometric banns test
some picture of mi new scope : http://jp-brahic.chez-alice.fr/t450.htm

jp


Edited by jpb30 (01/17/13 02:17 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jonstarrysky
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/03/09

Loc: England, U.K.
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5627605 - 01/17/13 08:32 AM

There is no simple answer to the question of Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK. I recently upgraded my 10" f4.7 Orion USA mirror for a custom made ZOC pyrex mirror. I guess I had become wrapped-up in the amazing auora that surrounds CZ and accounts of his mirrors. I really wanted a bit of this action, whatever the explanation. The guy is idolized and has possibly unparalled respect from the astro community. My experience is he is great person to deal with and my ZOC mirror performs very well on the stars. Images are razor sharp. No suprises a ronchi eyepioece gives me deadly stright fringes with the ZOC miror. HOWEVER, I soon realised that my original mass-produced Orion USA mirror was in fact very good its self. I cannot tell the difference with the ZOC on feint stars or nebulae. Believe me I dont want this to be true after the money I spent, but it does seem to be true for me. I suppose that an experienced observer under perfect skies, on a scope with a perfect secondary mirror, will notice that the ZOC mirror is superior, who knows.... So I dont think you can generalise and say brand X is "better" than brand Y, unless if there is proper evidence to support that contention.
Orion UK come from a different fold. They are experienced opticians, hand-making the optics in europe, and have the full phase-shifting zygo interferomety kit, which I gather costs a fortune. They also make optics for professional physics labs and national projects. I have a small amount of direct experience of them. It is likely that they can produce some very good mirrors, I have seen some images taken with equitorally mounted scopes using their mirrors that are astonishing in quality. How Orion UK mirrors compare with ZOC mirrors is unknown, until somebody conducts systematic testing on a large sample of mirrors from both sources.
As somepoint I may consiser selling my 10" f4.7 ZOC or Orion USA mirror. I think the former will fetch rather more money than the latter.

Edited by jonstarrysky (01/17/13 09:01 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dpwoos
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/18/06

Loc: United States
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: jonstarrysky]
      #5627696 - 01/17/13 09:33 AM

It is true that the primary mirror is only one part of the system (which includes the observer), and so upgrading only that one component may or may not make a big difference. It is also true that there is a (decent?) chance of a mass produced mirror being quite good.

I think it is easy to lose sight of the fact that (almost?) all of the info one finds here is based on anecdotal evidence, and that this it is being offered and (possibly) accepted based on very limited understanding of the particulars. I also think that many folks who hang out here want the "best" of this and that, without knowledge of what they have and what they will be getting. It is not possible to "upgrade" anything without this knowledge, unless upgrading simply means spending more and/or getting name recognition. Even if one accepts that "you get what you pay for" (and I don't think that it is always true), that doesn't mean that you get what you need or want.

Edited by dpwoos (01/17/13 09:35 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Thomas Karpf
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/09/09

Loc: Newington, CT
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: jonstarrysky]
      #5627713 - 01/17/13 09:49 AM

Quote:

I cannot tell the difference with the ZOC on feint stars or nebulae. Believe me I dont want this to be true after the money I spent, but it does seem to be true for me. I suppose that an experienced observer under perfect skies, on a scope with a perfect secondary mirror, will notice that the ZOC mirror is superior, who knows.... So I dont think you can generalise and say brand X is "better" than brand Y, unless if there is proper evidence to support that contention.




What would you define as 'proper evidence'?

While you certainly can get good mirrors from other vendors (and mirrors from China are definitely getting better), I have NEVER seen ANYONE ANYWHERE say 'Brand X is better than Zambuto', although certainly several other mirror makers are considered AS GOOD AS Zambuto. In addition, there are ZERO bad reports about a mirror from Zambuto (other than two from WAY back where Carl Zambuto refigured mirrors that were not properly annealed).

For me, that's 'proper evidence'.

If you're unhappy with your Zambuto mirror, I'm sure you will have NO problems selling it or trading it for anybody else's mirror.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dpwoos
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/18/06

Loc: United States
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Thomas Karpf]
      #5627754 - 01/17/13 10:16 AM

NO ONE is saying that the Zambuto mirror is bad. What is being claimed is that there isn't a noticeable difference between the Zambuto and the original mass produced mirror. This claim is perfectly reasonable, and there are all kinds of possible explanations including that the original mirror was itself quite good.

I do agree that the reference to brand X vs. brand Y is unfortunate, in that I don't think there is any doubt that, on average, Zambuto (and other top-notch maker's) mirrors are significantly better than mass produced ones. However, I don't think that is the gist of the post.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jonstarrysky
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/03/09

Loc: England, U.K.
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Thomas Karpf]
      #5627764 - 01/17/13 10:25 AM

Proper evidence is side-by-side testing by the same eyes on the same night, or an interferometry analysis perfomed by the same reputable lab. To say brand X is better than brand Y, then you need a large sample set in order to make any generalised conclusions.
But I am happy with my ZOC mirror !! it's just on this occasion my chinese-make Orion USA mirror turns out to be a killer too. Others had told me this who had observed through my scope. Maybe I got wrapped up in the CN hype and expected the ZOC mirror to do the impossible. Anyhow I remain a fan of Zambuto. There are no reports of bad ZOC mirrors, this is true. But it is not necessarily a fact that a ZOC mirror will always out-perfom a mirror from a different maker. I guess more-or-less equal or better might be more true.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dpwoos
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/18/06

Loc: United States
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: jonstarrysky]
      #5627808 - 01/17/13 10:52 AM

I think you are correct on all counts, including getting "wrapped up in the CN hype". However, I would not assume that it is impossible for you to see a difference in the future, e.g. you have an especially good night, you get your scope working better in other ways, you become a more discerning observer, you accept more "CN hype" and buy sooper-sooper-dooper eyepieces. At least you know your mirror isn't the weak link.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jonstarrysky
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/03/09

Loc: England, U.K.
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: dpwoos]
      #5627835 - 01/17/13 11:07 AM

Yep, it was an expensive way of determining my primary wasnt the weakest link. Actually, there are several reports of side-to-side tests showing ZOC mirrors killing mass produced mirrors in performnace. My contention is this is not necessarily always the case. But Zambuto may be "better" vs. several other opticians in regards to consistently producing high quality mirrors.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: jonstarrysky]
      #5627887 - 01/17/13 11:29 AM

One of the finest 16" mirrors I have ever seen was the standard GSO mirror in a Meade LightBridge scope. Is that indicative of all 16" LightBridge scopes? Unfortunately, no.

I have also looked through many ZOC-mirrored scopes, and seen uniformly good images, commensurate with the seeing and transparency conditions.
Is this indicative of all ZOC mirrors? Probably.

And therein lies the difference. The range of variation in the mass-produced mirrors and scopes is large. You could get an astoundingly good mirror. Or, you could get a mediocre optic. What are the odds?

We pay more for consistency at a high level. Is Carl Zambuto the only optician in the world whose quality is consistently high? Of course not.
There are many such mirror makers out there.

But, can you rely on getting good optics from them? If the answer is yes, then ZOC is in good company.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dscarpa
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/15/08

Loc: San Diego Ca.
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5627908 - 01/17/13 11:40 AM


I'm on the verg of ordering a Teeter STS with a 11" F/5 Zambuto mirror! Seeing in San Diego is good to excellent pretty often so it should be able to show it's stuff. I've got a good eye, top notch eyepieces and want a mirror to match. Thanks for all the info, it's really helped with my decision. David


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Starman1]
      #5627936 - 01/17/13 11:52 AM

Sometimes you get lucky. I did. The generic mirror in my 10XTi must have squeeked by the QC guy. It throws out fantastic views. It's given me better views then others with the same scope.

I got mine from the scope store, not online. I'm beginning to wonder if the scopes sold to dealers come off a different mfg line then those sold on-line to individuals (doubtful, but even the scope store person feels they sometimes get better stuff then online orders). If I ever replace my "Honda" mirror, it will be with a Zambuto though.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jason D
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/21/06

Loc: California
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5627996 - 01/17/13 12:31 PM

Quote:

Sometimes you get lucky. I did



Did you star test your mirror? If yes, what did you find?
Imperfect star test results do not necessarily translate to poor images but the star test will reveal small imperfections even for good mirrors. Of course, some star test experience would be needed to decipher small imperfections.
Jason


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Jason D]
      #5628027 - 01/17/13 12:43 PM

Nah, only test has been eyeball to eyepiece. It just luckily has a nice mirror. I do keep it collimated though, and that might make a difference from comparisons to others scopes....

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BluewaterObserva
Postmaster
***

Reged: 05/18/04

Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5628099 - 01/17/13 01:31 PM

Resale value is strongly in favor of the Zambuto.

It just one factor in the equation, but so far in favor of the Zambuto it drastically tips this scale in its' favor.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jason D
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/21/06

Loc: California
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5628108 - 01/17/13 01:37 PM

Quote:

Nah, only test has been eyeball to eyepiece. It just luckily has a nice mirror. I do keep it collimated though, and that might make a difference from comparisons to others scopes....




My original stock XT10 mirror gave nice views and I was happy with it and I would still be happy with it if I am still using it today; however, when I upgraded my mirror to Ed Steven's mirror years ago I noticed the difference to be subtle at low and mid magnification but more prevalent at higher magnification. Interestingly, the star test of both mirrors is far apart. My Steven’s mirror gave very nice defocused star images at both ends of the focus but my stock mirror showed a clear case of spherical aberration. As I stated in older posts, my experience made me have more respect for mass produced mirrors and more appreciation for premium mirrors.

Jason


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Darenwh
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 05/11/06

Loc: Covington, GA
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: BluewaterObserva]
      #5628117 - 01/17/13 01:41 PM

Quote:

Resale value is strongly in favor of the Zambuto.

It just one factor in the equation, but so far in favor of the Zambuto it drastically tips this scale in its' favor.




I would have to disagree with this point. Yes, resale value is with the Zambuto but by how big of a factor. If the 10" GSO mirror (under $200) will sell for 70% ($140) of cost and the 10" Zambuto mirror ($1400) will sell for 80% ($980) of cost but the price difference is too large you will still loose more money (GSO $60, Zambuty $420) on the Zambuty than the GSO. Besides, people who buy anything other than traditionally appreciating products (stocks, bonds, commodities, etc...) based on resale value would be far better off sticking their money in the bank. Something like a Telescope Primary is something you buy for your use, not because you want to resale it later.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Doug Culbertson
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/06/05

Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Jason D]
      #5628134 - 01/17/13 01:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Nah, only test has been eyeball to eyepiece. It just luckily has a nice mirror. I do keep it collimated though, and that might make a difference from comparisons to others scopes....




My original stock XT10 mirror gave nice views and I was happy with it and I would still be happy with it if I am still using it today; however, when I upgraded my mirror to Ed Steven's mirror years ago I noticed the difference to be subtle at low and mid magnification but more prevalent at higher magnification. Interestingly, the star test of both mirrors is far apart. My Steven’s mirror gave very nice defocused star images at both ends of the focus but my stock mirror showed a clear case of spherical aberration. As I stated in older posts, my experience made me have more respect for mass produced mirrors and more appreciation for premium mirrors.

Jason




I have owned 5 Zambuto mirrors, and I am now on my second Ed Stevens mirror. Ed's mirrors are every bit the equal of Carl's, but that could be because Ed once worked for Carl. It's a shame that Ed is no longer in business.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
pstarr
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/17/04

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Darenwh]
      #5628157 - 01/17/13 02:04 PM

Quote:


I would have to disagree with this point. Yes, resale value is with the Zambuto but by how big of a factor. If the 10" GSO mirror (under $200) will sell for 70% ($140) of cost and the 10" Zambuto mirror ($1400) will sell for 80% ($980) of cost but the price difference is too large you will still loose more money (GSO $60, Zambuty $420) on the Zambuty than the GSO. Besides, people who buy anything other than traditionally appreciating products (stocks, bonds, commodities, etc...) based on resale value would be far better off sticking their money in the bank. Something like a Telescope Primary is something you buy for your use, not because you want to resale it later.




I have seen 10" Zambuto mirrors sell on AM for 95% of the original price, depending on the coating and surface condition. The people who buy these are the ones who don't want to wait 9 months for a new one. A 10" GSO mirror is, well a 10" GSO mirror. There are plenty of them out there. Supply and demand may also have something to do with the resale price. You can buy a new 10" GSO mirror in stock right now at Agena Astro.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CosmoSat
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/24/09

Loc: India
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5628166 - 01/17/13 02:10 PM

Quote:

Let me know your opinion!




What diameter and focal ratio are you considering?

Clear Skies!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BluewaterObserva
Postmaster
***

Reged: 05/18/04

Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Darenwh]
      #5628170 - 01/17/13 02:12 PM

Was the original post which is the betterv deal? Or which better?

Which wiould I rather have in my posssesion? The Zambuto


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Calypte
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/20/07

Loc: Anza, California
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: jpb30]
      #5628189 - 01/17/13 02:26 PM

Quote:

Hello
use for 1 month a mirroir 17 "5 F/D 4 Zerodur Ostahowsky optic, and since I make of the astronomy ( 35 years) it is certainly the best optics through which I observed!!!
In visual in December I was able to observe details of all the satellites jupiter in 900X, it was extraordinary!!! No light diffusion, What proves a roughness of the optical surface very low;Fabulous!!!

Terry possesses a workshop and a excellent interferometric banns test
some picture of mi new scope : http://jp-brahic.chez-alice.fr/t450.htm

jp




I took the liberty of copying your post to email and sending it to Terry O. He'll be happy to read it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chucky
sage
*****

Reged: 04/16/10

Loc: Dublin, Ohio
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Calypte]
      #5628374 - 01/17/13 04:01 PM

<< I have seen 10" Zambuto mirrors sell on AM for 95% of the original price. >>

I paid $ 650.00 coated and shipped for my 10 inch F6 Zambuto. But this was back in April 1999. If I was to sell it today, I think I'd make a bit of coin. No, it's not for sale. This mirror is the best single investment I've ever made in the hobby.....and I'm not talking about the financial part....instead I'm talking about the quality of the purchase and the enjoyment I've had using the mirror over the years.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
chaoscosmos
sage
*****

Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Mission Viejo CA
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Chucky]
      #5647357 - 01/28/13 02:32 AM

This discussion reminds me somewhat of the ones that take place on the photography forums I visit. Instead of Zambuto it's Leica and Zeiss. Some people swear that Leica optics are worth many times what you might pay for Nikon, Canon, or other lesser known brands. Others think there's really no difference. I think myself that there is a difference between these photographic optics (I don't know enough about telescope mirrors), but that the user has to be quite discerning, which usually comes with experience. Like with many other manufactured items, you pay a heavy price to get the best.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cloud_cover
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/17/10

Loc: Restaurant at the End of the U...
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: chaoscosmos]
      #5647397 - 01/28/13 04:03 AM

I think when it comes to the quality of the telescope itself there are many factors.
Of note, in a newtonian system collimation is arguably the most important as mis-collimation can introduce many more wave-multiples of error than comparing decent vs. excellently figured mirrors. I recall some articles in which a person stated after learning about "proper" collimation his previously poor scope became an excellent scope. Not to imply anything about the OP, just to say there are other factors.
On the other hand, mass produced optics, like any other product, will have a variation in quality. This means some will be outstanding (more than +2SD outside mean) and some will be appalling (hopefully QC picks those up). Is it possible that some of the excellent mass produced ones will exceed a ZOC or a 1/10 wave Orion UK mirror? Absolutely. Its even possible (statistically and theoretically, of course) that its surface smoothness may be a few atoms thick, the scope will hold up excellently mechanically thus you'll get wonderful views.
The main question is:Can you accurately select for such a scope? Most of the time unless the store has such a scope in hand and the owner is willing to do that for you, its nigh on impossible.
So the best approach is to take the quality of the mean and compare that with the premium mirrors. In which case you'll find that most observers will prefer the premium mirror over randomly selected mass-production scopes. Therein lies the value of these "premium" mirrors - you are buying a known quantity.
Put it in another way: If you went to the Supermarket and wanted to buy a canned item, say a premium canned meat that costs $10/per can. Now suppose the roof blew off the supermarket in a hurricane and the rain soaked off all the can labels. Would you then also be willing to pay $10 for an unlabelled can with unknown contents and quality. I don't think so. But would an unlabelled can still do its job (providing nutrition)? It would, but you'll probably be willing to pay less in case the food is of a lower quality.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dpwoos
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/18/06

Loc: United States
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: chaoscosmos]
      #5647486 - 01/28/13 07:00 AM

Quote:

This discussion reminds me somewhat of the ones that take place on the photography forums I visit. Instead of Zambuto it's Leica and Zeiss. Some people swear that Leica optics are worth many times what you might pay for Nikon, Canon, or other lesser known brands. Others think there's really no difference. I think myself that there is a difference between these photographic optics (I don't know enough about telescope mirrors), but that the user has to be quite discerning, which usually comes with experience. Like with many other manufactured items, you pay a heavy price to get the best.




I think that a lot of folks believe this, as it seems reasonable. However, and in my experience, it is not true when it comes to telescopes. There are a lot of cases where the optics are simply not very good, and that difference is readily visible through the eyepiece. I think that if I buy a camera, it will work well. If I buy a scope, it might not work well and in fact, at the lowest price points, it is guaranteed to not work as well (mechanically) as a lot of folks will expect. I realize that many people will find this incredible, but that is my experience.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
precaud
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 12/05/12

Loc: north central New Mexico
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: dpwoos]
      #5647607 - 01/28/13 08:55 AM

Quote:

I think that if I buy a camera, it will work well. If I buy a scope, it might not work well




I wish this were the case with cameras... I bought one of the 35x "superzoom" Canons last year, bought new directly from Canon. It was horrible, I couldn't believe something so bad could get through their automated QC. I sent it to their repair facility on warranty, they replaced the whole lens/CCD assembly, a human being tested and adjusted it, flashed it with newer firmware, and it is now the excellent camera that I'd read about.

It's tough times in optical businesses lately. Lots of corners being cut to stay afloat. If, as a customer, you don't insist on reasonable quality, you are relying on luck and may not get it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
oldtimer
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 11/13/08

Loc: Lake County Illinois
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: dpwoos]
      #5652389 - 01/30/13 01:54 PM

Here is the reality. Commerical mirror makers are only going to put so many hours into a mirror. At the end of that specified times it ships. It may be poor, fair. good or great. If you get a bad one you can return it and they will send you the next one off the line. The bad one will NOT be reworked but merely sent to the next customer. Eventually it will find its way into the hands of someone who doesn't know the difference.

People like Zambuto and Harry will stand behind their quality claims. You pay more but quality always has a higher price.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bob irvin
sage


Reged: 03/22/11

Loc: Greater Los Angeles, CA
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: Fred1]
      #5652589 - 01/30/13 03:44 PM

Quote:

Shameless self-agrandization An Afternoon With Carl Zambuto.




very cool post, thanks for sharing.

bob


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
johnnyha
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Which mirror better-Zambuto, Discovery or Orion UK new [Re: ausastronomer]
      #5652947 - 01/30/13 06:22 PM

Quote:

My 14" Zambuto mirror on the other hand is only 1.3" thick and cools beautifully, consequently it delivers to its maximum performance potential a lot more often. I have the same sensors on the 14" scope and it very quickly gets to within 1 deg C to 2 deg C of ambient quite quickly. That's not to say the OMI mirror is the equal of the Zambuto mirror optically, it isn't, but its still a very good mirror restricted only by its thermal properties, not its optical quality.



John my experience mirrors yours exactly. I have a 15" Obsession and the stock 2" thick pyrex OMI mirror is excellent but can take awhile to cool. I just replaced mine with a ZOC 14.5" but I would not hesitate to recommend the OMI. In fact I plan on sticking my OMI in an old Discovery 16" split-tube (if I can find an empty one) and fitting it out with multiple fans so I have more thermal control.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | (show all)


Extra information
18 registered and 19 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  ausastronomer, Phillip Creed, JayinUT, okieav8r 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 6296

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics