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Equipment Discussions >> Reflectors

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Jason D
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: Jason D]
      #5663498 - 02/05/13 12:18 PM

Even better, why can't the video and scope manuals include a real picture of what is expected to be seen via the collimation cap for a well-collimated scope. Something similar to the attachment.



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David PavlichAdministrator
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: Jason D]
      #5663573 - 02/05/13 01:11 PM

Jason, I have no beef with you or anyone else's capability. After I learned the basics, I dug around and found the sites that show how to fine tune a Newt. All Andy did was make a video that simplifies what some consider a black art when they enter the world of Newtonians.

I would suggest that someone produce an Advanced Collimation Video and post it. There's enough people here with the expertise to do it. Include all the proper tools and how they work as well. It's like processing a CCD image. Tony Hallas can take my data and make it look like a Hubble image. But guess what....Tony didn't do that when he had his first images sitting in Photoshop. It took him a lot of time and effort to get to the top in his field.

At any rate, I'll leave it there. I don't want to give my fellow moderators a headache.

David


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Jason D
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5663610 - 02/05/13 01:46 PM

I believe you are reading too much into our posts. I believe the general theme of replies is that Andy's video is good and it could be better with a minor update.
Jason


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FirstSight
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: Jason D]
      #5663617 - 02/05/13 01:55 PM

Quote:

I believe you are reading too much into our posts. I believe the general theme of replies is that Andy's video is good and it could be better with a minor update.
Jason




Exactly. The proposed corrections under discussion do not require introducing anything at all difficult to correctly explain or present, nor to understand by a neophyte. They do, however require someone, whether by way of Andy himself or someone creating an alternative basic collimation tutorial video, to apply the necessary time and effort, which may not be quite so trivial an undertaking.


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Nils Olof Carlin
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5663630 - 02/05/13 02:02 PM

Quote:

I would suggest that someone produce an Advanced Collimation Video and post it.


So far, this thread has been about wanting a basic collimation video, much like like Andy's, with the confusing and potentially misleading parts (look back the thread to see them specified) corrected - not more complex, just more right. If Andy is satisfied leaving his own video as is (see the title of this thread), our hope goes to someone else. We are a couple here who know collimation at any desired level (some can make not only beautiful but also correct illustrations!) - but who is good at video making?

Nils Olof


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: Nils Olof Carlin]
      #5663776 - 02/05/13 03:26 PM

Quote:

So far, this thread has been about wanting a basic collimation video, much like like Andy's, with the confusing and potentially misleading parts




Nils:

I believe you wanted to say "without the confusing and potentially misleading parts."

In any event, it would seem that if the video were not changed, at least a note could be included to point out the possible errors, the possible sources of confusion. An incorrect representation has the possibility of confusing a perceptive beginner.

Jon


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Jason D
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5663839 - 02/05/13 04:00 PM

Quote:

In any event, it would seem that if the video were not changed, at least a note could be included to point out the possible errors, the possible sources of confusion. An incorrect representation has the possibility of confusing a perceptive beginner.

Jon




Good point, Jon.

Andy could include an addendum to the same web page as the video with an illustration and a message similar to what I included in my earlier reply

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/5663474/...

Andy is welcome to use the illustration I added to the above reply.

Jason


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Nils Olof Carlin
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5663850 - 02/05/13 04:04 PM

Hi Jon,

what I tried to say was:
"...with the confusing and potentially misleading parts(...) corrected.

Edited by Nils Olof Carlin (02/05/13 04:04 PM)


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csrlice12
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: Jason D]
      #5663954 - 02/05/13 05:04 PM

"Those who get confused will eventually be shown the way in forums or by knowledgeable friends."

.....or walk away completely, never being able to get the scope to work right......and that is the real danger. But, I thank Andy for his in-depth video, luckily, I did some research before collimating my scope, so I knew the inconsistencies


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rmollise
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5664011 - 02/05/13 05:29 PM

Quote:

"Those who get confused will eventually be shown the way in forums or by knowledgeable friends."

.....or walk away completely, never being able to get the scope to work right......and that is the real danger. But, I thank Andy for his in-depth video, luckily, I did some research before collimating my scope, so I knew the inconsistencies




Or just give up the whole kit-and-kaboodle after spending hours worrying about offsets and secondary shadows instead of looking at M42 or seeing anything besides a cotton-picking paper reinforcer donut.

Considerations such as these have a place, but not in Andy's nice beginner video, where they will confuse the issue to no good purpose.


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: rmollise]
      #5664141 - 02/05/13 06:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

"Those who get confused will eventually be shown the way in forums or by knowledgeable friends."

.....or walk away completely, never being able to get the scope to work right......and that is the real danger. But, I thank Andy for his in-depth video, luckily, I did some research before collimating my scope, so I knew the inconsistencies




Or just give up the whole kit-and-kaboodle after spending hours worrying about offsets and secondary shadows instead of looking at M42 or seeing anything besides a cotton-picking paper reinforcer donut.

Considerations such as these have a place, but not in Andy's nice beginner video, where they will confuse the issue to no good purpose.




A beginners video need not necessarily address the fine points but the illustrations and examples should be accurate so that a perceptive beginner is not mislead into thinking something is wrong when it is A-OK.

Jon


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Jason D
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: rmollise]
      #5664142 - 02/05/13 06:39 PM

Quote:

Or just give up the whole kit-and-kaboodle after spending hours worrying about offsets and secondary shadows instead of looking at M42 or seeing anything besides a cotton-picking paper reinforcer donut.




Isn't that what most replies in this thread are going after?
When beginners see a shifted secondary shadow via their collimation cap which does not match what is shown in manuals and videos they get stuck. Instead of going out to see M42, they spend more frustrating time trying to figure out what they did incorrectly!!! After all, a shifted secondary shadow is intuitively seen as an error.
Many of us are try to help beginners by informing them that spider vanes and secondary shadows could look misaligned and they should stop worrying about them and go out to observe M42.
Jason


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beatlejuice
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: Jason D]
      #5664191 - 02/05/13 07:14 PM

Quote:

When beginners see a shifted secondary shadow via their collimation cap which does not match what is shown in manuals and videos they get stuck. Instead of going out to see M42, they spend more frustrating time trying to figure out what they did incorrectly!!!




That is exactly what happend to me when I purchased my first reflector about 12 years ago. The XT10 came with collimation instructions that showed everything perfectly centered. It was definitely a head scratcher for me until I phoned Orion and there was actually someone there who was able to set me straight.

Eric


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Ed D
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: beatlejuice]
      #5664241 - 02/05/13 07:50 PM

Are there any other collimation videos out there that address the shortcomings in Andy's video that we can recommend to novices?

Ed D


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beatlejuice
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: Ed D]
      #5664346 - 02/05/13 09:27 PM

I dont know about videos but these are the sites that I found most useful when it seemed like I was on my own.

Collimating newtonian optics
and
John Reed's Home Page Collimation

Eric


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GeneT
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: Nils Olof Carlin]
      #5664367 - 02/05/13 09:41 PM

Quote:

what I tried to say was:
"...with the confusing and potentially misleading parts(...) corrected.




This is reasonable. Come on Andy--you made a great collimation video. But, why not re-shoot a small portion, edit it in, and make your video even better?


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Scanning4Comets
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: GeneT]
      #5664437 - 02/05/13 10:31 PM

I agree that the video needs updating or addressed.

Cheers,


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csrlice12
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5664830 - 02/06/13 09:06 AM

I've got a Glatter/TuBlug and the collimating eyepiece that came with the refractor and a collimating cap, and a couple of scopes. Anyone in Denver who's knowledgeable in collimating (not me, don't know enough of the techie stuff); and has access to a video camera is welcome to meet me some time and can use my equipment to film a video. It would really be nice to have a series of videos showing how to collimate with a Cheshire/Catseye/Glatter/Barlow, etc... I'll even hold the camera.

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Jason D
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5664864 - 02/06/13 09:31 AM

I do not believe there is a need for a new video. Andy's video is well known and well circulated but more importantly is a great video. All he needs to do is add an addendum to address the concern voiced in this thread.

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FirstSight
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Re: Andy's Shot Glass Video - Wish He Would Correct It new [Re: Jason D]
      #5665039 - 02/06/13 11:31 AM

Quote:

I do not believe there is a need for a new video. Andy's video is well known and well circulated but more importantly is a great video. All he needs to do is add an addendum to address the concern voiced in this thread.




Except apparently Andy indicates he's not at all inclined to do that. So says his buddy CN member David Pavlich. Further, although a clear majority of respondents to this thread indicate agreement that an update to fix the inaccuracies should be done, there is a substantial minority supporting Andy in leaving the video as is, thereby encouraging Andy to stay put with his disinclination. So be it, it's his right to do so.

THEREFORE, the only likely alternatives are:
a) let the matter rest, and live with periodically having to help folks misinformed by Andy's video clear up their misunderstandings as they climb the collimation learning curve;
OR b) one (or more of us in collaboration) get around tuit at some point to create a more accurate basic collimation instructional video with similar or better production values as Andy's.

I'm not hereby saying any particular one(s) among us necessarily has any obligation to take on option b). To do something like that worthwhile well will probably be a more nontrivial, time-consuming project that it may seem in the abstract. But that would be a good thing if someone's able and willing to take it on.

Edited by FirstSight (02/06/13 11:57 AM)


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