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Equipment Discussions >> Reflectors

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Jarrod
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 01/20/13

Loc: SE USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: donnie3]
      #5916261 - 06/12/13 02:12 AM

Tracking is very desirable. Goto is a bonus. Tracking turns what for me is the "annoyance" of chasing an object across the sky into a serene observing experience.

Could I live without it if I had to? Yes, but I don't have to and I'm glad for that.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Jarrod]
      #5916509 - 06/12/13 08:41 AM

Just a comment on GOTO. Just because an object is in the field of view, it still may be necessary to use a star chart to actually locate it...

The other night I was looking for NGC5634 from my light polluted backyard. It's a magnitude 9.4 Globular that's spread out over about 5 arcminues so the surface brightness was about 21.7 MPSAS, only the core would be detectable. I was using my 4 inch refractor.

I had the target well centered in the field of view but I couldn't see it because I did not know exactly where to look.

So, using Sky Safari, I saw that it was 1.5 arc-minutes west of a magnitude 8 star I had identified, I knew exactly where to look and sure enough, there it was...

Jon


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Jeff Morgan
Postmaster
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Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: donnie3]
      #5917295 - 06/12/13 04:25 PM

Quote:

goto isn't a must and a lot of button pushing.




You should see SkySafari on the iPad driving ServoCAT. It truly changes everything.


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jgraham
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #5917544 - 06/12/13 07:10 PM

Necessary?

No.

Really nice?

Absolutely.

I am not sure that I would want it on a Dob though. For me, the attraction of a Dob is its simplicity. I use a separate point-to system for my non-GoTo scopes.


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Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: keyth]
      #5917864 - 06/12/13 10:26 PM

Quote:

I am considering purchasing a 10 " Dob Is a goto scope necessary . The prices are quit extreme for computerized scopes . How fast would planets etc go out of view I would like to hear from anyone that has either 10 ' dobs Thanks again Keyth near Toronto




Nope, not necessary. I've located and observed over 1000 different deep sky objects (not counting double stars) with my 10" Dob and never had goto or DSCs. No doubt many have observed many more than that without the help of these gizmos.

I've also observed - and drawn - planets at high power without tracking. Now, I admit tracking would be nice. But it's not necessary. Goto and DSCs are even less necessary - much less.

Mike


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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5917872 - 06/12/13 10:31 PM

Quote:

Just a comment on GOTO. Just because an object is in the field of view, it still may be necessary to use a star chart to actually locate it...




Exactly. Just because you know a ball is in the ball field, doesn't mean you've found it. You still have to look around for it and verify that it is the ball, and not a rock or a toadstool.

By the way, I'd rather have Sky Safari on my tablet and no goto, than goto and no Sky Safari on my tablet.


Mike


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Starman81
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/06/08

Loc: Metro Detroit, MI, USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5917996 - 06/12/13 11:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Just a comment on GOTO. Just because an object is in the field of view, it still may be necessary to use a star chart to actually locate it...




Exactly. Just because you know a ball is in the ball field, doesn't mean you've found it. You still have to look around for it and verify that it is the ball, and not a rock or a toadstool.

By the way, I'd rather have Sky Safari on my tablet and no goto, than goto and no Sky Safari on my tablet.


Mike




This is not like those Ford commercials, you can have BOTH tracking and SkySafari on your tablet, no one says you can't.


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TexasRed
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/17/11

Loc: East Texas
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Starman81]
      #5918248 - 06/13/13 06:29 AM

Are GoTo and automatic tracking necessary? Of course not, but then neither are power-steering, power-brakes or air conditioning in my car. They just make driving easier and more enjoyable.

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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Starman81]
      #5918262 - 06/13/13 06:48 AM

Quote:

This is not like those Ford commercials, you can have BOTH tracking and SkySafari on your tablet, no one says you can't.




Yes, I would like both. I plan on having about a 14" Dob with tracking for my next scope.

Mike


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Starman81]
      #5918273 - 06/13/13 07:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Just a comment on GOTO. Just because an object is in the field of view, it still may be necessary to use a star chart to actually locate it...




Exactly. Just because you know a ball is in the ball field, doesn't mean you've found it. You still have to look around for it and verify that it is the ball, and not a rock or a toadstool.

By the way, I'd rather have Sky Safari on my tablet and no goto, than goto and no Sky Safari on my tablet.


Mike




This is not like those Ford commercials, you can have BOTH tracking and SkySafari on your tablet, no one says you can't.




My point was simply that GOTO does not eliminate the need to learn to starhop, to read a chart.

In my mind, GOTO is not power steering or power brakes. Power steering and power brakes are a scope that moves easily and responds smoothly, without jitter or vibration. GOTO is using the GPS to guide me rather than reading the map for myself. In my experience, when I use a GPS to guide me, the second time I go there, I need to use the GPS, my attention is on the GPS, not where I am going. If I find the place using a map, electronic or paper, the second time I need to go there, I remember how to get there and I have a good sense of exactly where I am going.

I think the same is true of star hopping. I have a pretty good memory but sometimes I need to take a quick peek at a map. But then, I can point right to it. For the rest of this year, I will know exactly where NGC 5634 is, I will know exactly how to find it. Next year I will probably need a quick refresher.

Jon

Edited by Jon Isaacs (06/13/13 07:12 AM)


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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
*****

Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5918382 - 06/13/13 09:06 AM

And just to repeat myself, when you have about a dozen people in line at an outreach waiting for you to star hop from one object to the next, you'll find that goto is your friend. Besides, we all tend to be visually oriented and I've found that I get a lot of oohs, aahs and questions when my mount/scope moves from one side of the meridian to the other without doing anything but press a button or two. And for me, the best part is that the people in line aren't waiting for me to find the object and then I can let that dozen long line view and know that the object is still in the FOV because the mount is tracking.

David


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Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5918576 - 06/13/13 11:35 AM

I have a contrarian opinion ... surprise! Non-tracking is better than goto/tracking for showing an object to a line of people.

When I use a non-tracking telescope, it automatically limits the time that each person can view the object. I ask them to let me know when it's almost out of view. Then I tell them, "Here. Let me move it back into view." I nudge the scope so that the object is just coming into the field again. Now I say, "Next!" and the next person in line gets a turn. Easy sneezy and no one gets to hog the telescope.

But I do feel like telling the ones who are busy gabbing and take their time getting to the eyepiece, "OK, slowpoke, back of the line! Next!"


Mike


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star drop
Snowed In
*****

Reged: 02/02/08

Loc: Snow Plop, WNY
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5918593 - 06/13/13 11:47 AM

No it is not necessary but it is nice. Unless .. it goes haywire due to dew slippage, smoking wires etc. It is always nice to have a backup plan and a good star chart.

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CCC
member


Reged: 11/28/10

Loc: Northern Manitoba
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: star drop]
      #5918610 - 06/13/13 11:58 AM

Is a goto dob necessary? No I don't think so. To be honest I don't use it that much on my scope to find stuff. However when viewing planets at high power the tracking is a really nice feature.

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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: star drop]
      #5918614 - 06/13/13 12:00 PM

In the field I mostly consult Sky Safari on my tablet, but I still bring along Pocket Sky Atlas and Sky Atlas 2000.

In any case, it is always a good thing to actually know the constellations, major stars and the locations of the best eye candy without having to rely on goto/DSCs or star charts, just your memory.

Mike


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auriga
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/02/06

Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Achernar]
      #5918654 - 06/13/13 12:21 PM

If "push-to" refers to digital setting circles, such as Sky Commander, I have found them absolutely necessary for observing from the center of a large city in light-polluted skies. There are too few stars visible with a Telrad or finder scope to make star-hopping feasible.

I don't have tracking and I wish I did, but I feel it would add too much weight and expense. I don't need tracking at all for solo observing but for observing with friends it would be helpful, and for outreach it would be an enormous convenience.

At least, this has been my experience.

Bill


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KerryR
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/05/07

Loc: SW Michigan
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: auriga]
      #5918722 - 06/13/13 12:56 PM

Even at public observing events, I find I don't miss goto or tracking. Most of the time, the targets are bright and easily found by memory, and powers are low enough that tracking is easy, even for the uninitiated (properly functioning bearings help a lot).

In fact, part of the fun at such events is showing folks my simple and 'cheap' 16", showing them how dead-reckoning or star hopping works, and letting them hand-track the scope themselves. Let's them know that the expensive and relatively complex computer controlled scopes aren't the only option.

It's interesting-- my comparatively simple scope always attracts a certain demographic as the night wears on, while the computer controlled scopes collect another.

All that said, I enjoy my CPC11 and LX90 8" tremendously. But simple, cheap, and clean Dobs have a particular place in my heart.

Edited by KerryR (06/13/13 01:49 PM)


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Peter Natscher
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/06

Loc: Central Coast California
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Jarrod]
      #5918753 - 06/13/13 01:12 PM

I have tracking and GoTo on my scopes and have been using these devices for over 15 years. First ones were on my earlier Starmaster Dobs (i.e., Sky Tracker and Sky Commander DSCs). I always buy my scopes with these devices for I like the tracking and do use the GoTo during outreach for quick object location to show many people impatiently waiting in a line. For me, the tracking is far more important than the GoTo. If I could get the tracking option w/o GoTo, I would. After starting out my astronomy hobby observing all kinds of sky objects, and I have observed probably over 4,000 incl. observing and drawing the Herschel I's and II's, I'm now coming full circle and enjoying purely star hopping using no GoTo as I started back in 1995. With star hoppng to find objects, it's the manual hunt for the illusive objects that is satisfying than automatically letting the scope find it. GoTo throws everything in your face and after a while, the procedure gets boring. There's no brain work pushing buttons. Planning beforehand and locating an object on star atlas, star hopping using the atlas-finder-eyepiece routine is all part of the exhilarating experience of observing. Its the anticipation of finding what you have planned for. It's using your equipment more directly. It creates more of a connection with you, your telescope, and the sky. By the end of the evening, this is more satisfying than having used GoTo to find 30 objects on a list.

Quote:

Tracking is very desirable. Goto is a bonus. Tracking turns what for me is the "annoyance" of chasing an object across the sky into a serene observing experience.

Could I live without it if I had to? Yes, but I don't have to and I'm glad for that.




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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: KerryR]
      #5918807 - 06/13/13 01:34 PM

Quote:

It's interesting-- my comparatively simple scope always attracts a certain demographic as the night wears on, while the computer controlled scopes collect another.




I'd guess that the ones really interested in the objects would like the simple scope, while the ones that are captivated by gadgets and gizmos would gravitate toward gotos.

When I talk to my fellow workers about my hobby, there are always some whose eyes will light up and they'll say "Wow" if I mention that for some telescopes you just need to plug in a few numbers and the mount moves by itself to point at the object you wanted. They have no interest at all in anything in the heavens unless it is involved somehow with modern technology. Apparently the same sort of folks who care more about the space program than about space.

Mike


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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5918823 - 06/13/13 01:41 PM

Quote:

With star hoppng to find objects, it's the manual hunt for the illusive objects that is satisfying than automatically letting the scope find it. GoTo throws everything in your face and after a while, the procedure gets boring. There's no brain work pushing buttons. Planning beforehand and locating an object on star atlas, star hopping using the atlas-finder-eyepiece routine is all part of the exhilarating experience of observing. Its the anticipation of finding what you have planned for. It's using your equipment more directly. It creates more of a connection with you, your telescope, and the sky. By the end of the evening, this is more satisfying than having used GoTo to find 30 objects on a list.




+1 What's most satisfying for me is to not use goto or DSCs and still locate and observe 30 objects. A perfect evening would be if those 30 objects were all ones I'd never seen before.

Mike


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