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Equipment Discussions >> Reflectors

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keyth
member


Reged: 03/07/13

Is a goto scope nescessary
      #5914953 - 06/11/13 12:15 PM

I am considering purchasing a 10 " Dob Is a goto scope necessary . The prices are quit extreme for computerized scopes . How fast would planets etc go out of view I would like to hear from anyone that has either 10 ' dobs Thanks again Keyth near Toronto

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Thomas Karpf
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/09/09

Loc: Newington, CT
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: keyth]
      #5914975 - 06/11/13 12:28 PM

That depends entirely on the field of view of the eyepiece.

The Earth rotates at one degree per four minutes. Assuming your target is at the celestial equator, that means that with an un-driven scope (i.e. no clock drive) it will take four minutes for the target to cross an eyepiece with a 1 degree field of view.

The typical 10" dobsonian has a focal ratio of 4.7. Maximum field of view with a 2" eyepiece (like the 41mm Panoptic) is about 2.3 degrees. So, with that 41mm Panoptic, a target will take ten minutes to cross that field of view.

Higher powers yield faster motion. If you were using a 4mm eyepiece, that target on the celestial equator would take a minute to cross the field of view.

Aim closer to the poles (say at declination +60), and stars move more slowly. At declination 60, stars move at half the rate they do at the equator.


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radial195
member


Reged: 08/31/12

Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: keyth]
      #5914978 - 06/11/13 12:30 PM

No, a goto scope (or push to) is definately not necessary. With a telrad (or similar), a small finder scope, and the main scope you can find anything visible in the scope. Depending on your magnification planets should be in the eyepiece for about 2 minutes or longer at low mag, less as you increase magnification. It's not hard to learn which direction to move the scope to keep things in view.

I find my 14.25" dob to be much easier to use than my ETX125 goto scope! Not that the ETX is that difficult. The dob is just much more fun.

Berry, berry eezy!

Chris in sunny (or dark) Arizona.


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MitchAlsup
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/31/09

Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: radial195]
      #5914998 - 06/11/13 12:38 PM

I have not found it needed after 1.5 decades with my push-to 20" DOB (after a decade with a goto.)

What you need are good star maps of the night, a Telrad (or equivalent), and a good widest field EP (31NT5 for example).

If you can point within 1 degree, and stand to pan around for 30 seconds, you can find just about anything.


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RAKing
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Reged: 12/28/07

Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: keyth]
      #5915045 - 06/11/13 01:07 PM

I agree with the others. I was worried about it at first, but came to realize that things didn't move as fast as I thought they would.

I have learned that I have plenty of time to locate the object, adjust my chair, take notes, do a rough sketch, and even change eyepieces while the object drifts across the FOV. Rushing is not necessary and I even find it kind of relaxing to be the "master" of my scope's movement.

Cheers,

Ron


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Jeff Morgan
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Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: keyth]
      #5915047 - 06/11/13 01:07 PM

Planets are very easy to find, so GOTO would be a waste of money if you are predominantly a planetary observer.

Tracking however takes observing (especially planetary observing) to the next level and is very worthwhile. Dobs move easily and all kinds of folks will chime in how they track planets at high magnifications. And that is true - it can be done. But with a tracking solution you absolutely positively will see more detail vs. manual tracking.

If planets are your thing, an equatorial platform would be an excellent accessory to get, and reasonably affordable - in some cases less than a premium wide field eyepiece. And it will be far more effective than trying to defeat the problem with wider field of view.

OTOH if you do lots of deep sky also, the GOTO solutions like ServoCAT become viable. Much more money, so you need to figure out the value proposition for yourself. In my case, the productivity potential makes it a good value.


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Jarad
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Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: RAKing]
      #5915049 - 06/11/13 01:09 PM

With a 10", you could also consider using an equatorial platform to get tracking.

It's not absolutely necessary, but I find tracking to be valuable. Makes observing more pleasant - you can focus on looking and not worry about nudging.

Jarad


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DavidNealMinnick
sage
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Reged: 03/06/06

Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: keyth]
      #5915454 - 06/11/13 05:06 PM

I never had GOTO on my 10" dob, and enjoyed using it for more than ten years. I ordered GOTO with my 18" but haven't used the drive for several years, now.

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David PavlichAdministrator
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Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: DavidNealMinnick]
      #5915499 - 06/11/13 05:24 PM

If you get involved in outreach and decide to show your viewers Jupiter or Saturn or the Moon, you'll wish that you had tracking. Also, if you prefer hunting to viewing, then you don't need goto. I prefer viewing over hunting, especially in my typical light polluted backyard. If my gotos are good, then I can put a dim object in the eyepiece and know it's there. It's then up to me to see it.

David


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Achernar
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Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: keyth]
      #5915695 - 06/11/13 07:23 PM

Not really if you just want to look at the Moon and planets. However, both GOTO and PUSH-TO telescopes are really nice to have when you are observing in light polluted areas where star hopping is difficult or even impossible. They allow you to spend more time actually observing and less time hunting them, though for many the hunt is just as much fun as finding things. I prefer to use digital setting circles and spend more time studying what does appear in the eyepieces, many of the galaxies I search out are faint. A PUSH-TO has the advanatage of allowing you to choose to starhop manually or to use it, aand it does not require power hungry motors either. If you plan to do a lot of high power planetary and lunar observing, it might be worth your while to consider a GOTO telescope because it tracks while a PUSH-TO doesn't unless that telescope has an equatorial platform.

Taras


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GeneT
Ely Kid
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Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: keyth]
      #5915712 - 06/11/13 07:33 PM

You don't need a GoTo. They are great, and a lot of people swear by them. I own a 12.5 inch Portaball and there is no GoTo for Portaballs. I do have a Tom O Platform. About half of the time, I don't use the Platform. It is not that hard to find, view, nudge. My life is less complicated without GoTo.

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jrbarnett
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Thomas Karpf]
      #5915713 - 06/11/13 07:34 PM

Exactly!

- Jim


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SeattleScott
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/14/11

Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5915752 - 06/11/13 07:56 PM

If you view solo, tracking is not that critical unless you specialize in the moon and planets. If you stargaze with buddies or family, then tracking is really nice.

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DavidC
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Reged: 11/24/05

Loc: Mesa, Arizona
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5915772 - 06/11/13 08:07 PM

You don't absolutely need a Go-To. I have never used Go-To in my 8 + years of observing, I've tried to learn the night sky and remember where stuff is. I find the hunt for dso's a rewarding challenge, and like said B-4, most of the stuff you can see in a finder scope. I don't use my finders all the time, after a while you tend to know where to align the telrad when you star hop. But I do use my telrad on ngc and caldwell objects, some of those are really faint, and harder to locate.
David


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coopman
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Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: DavidC]
      #5915785 - 06/11/13 08:17 PM

Absolutely not!!!

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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5915788 - 06/11/13 08:18 PM

Quote:

Also, if you prefer hunting to viewing, then you don't need goto. I prefer viewing over hunting, especially in my typical light polluted backyard




If one is thinking outside the box:

Looking for an object is "viewing" there is plenty to see, plenty to observe, plenty to learn...

Yogi Berra said it, "You can observe a lot just by watching."

Many of my favorite objects, I discovered (for myself) just by looking around.

Jon Isaacs


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gaz-in
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 12/17/07

Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5915808 - 06/11/13 08:42 PM

IMHO,

GOTO - Definitively not a necessity. In fact some find it a pain (batteries, etc...)..
Push-To- Not a necessity but very very nice...
Tracking - Not a necessity but IMHO convenient

IMHO I would spring for a 10 inch Push To Dob and, if inclined, add an eq platform for tracking later.


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MikeBOKC
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Reged: 05/10/10

Loc: Oklahoma City, OK
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: keyth]
      #5915986 - 06/11/13 10:29 PM

The answer depends on your wants, desires and needs. If you are a fairy patient person, willing to invest some months (at a minimum) in learning the sky and how to use star charts and finder devices like the Telrad or a finderscope, then go to is certainly not necessary. If you are eager and a bit anxious to get out and see some galaxies and planetary nebulae and other fairly faint objects, then go to is probably very desirable, if not strictly necessary. If you are going to be viewing under heavily light polluted skies ("near Toronto" would probably qualify) then go to is extremely handy, but again not strictly necessary. Really, no piece of astronomy equipment is truly necessary in the sense of not being able to function without it; you can view the constellations with the naked eye and pick out and identify many individual objects. I would say that go to is not necessary for anyone, but it and the tracking that comes with it is pretty darn useful for many under most observing conditions.

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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: keyth]
      #5916084 - 06/11/13 11:33 PM

Quote:

I am considering purchasing a 10 " Dob Is a goto scope necessary . The prices are quit extreme for computerized scopes . How fast would planets etc go out of view I would like to hear from anyone that has either 10 ' dobs Thanks again Keyth near Toronto




Keyth:

Here's a question for you: Will this be your first scope?

My thinking:

- Some observers enjoy the star hopping experience, that means that the process of identifying stars, star fields, remembering locations and just looking is a part of the fun.. If that's you, then GOTO or PUSHTO (Intelliscope) will just get in the way.

- Some observers find hunting down objects frustrating, "wasted time", they prefer to just go from one object to the next with the minimum of effort. If that's you, then PUSHTO or GOTO is definitively worthwhile.

In reality, these represent the two extremes, most will be somewhere in the middle. Dobs are well suited for star hopping, most who star hop with larger scope probably use Dobsonians...

Tracking Platforms have been mentioned, another alternative to Pushto/GOTO are manual setting circles or "Degree Circles". There is along thread in the equipment forum discussing how to make your own.

The way it works is you have what amounts to a large protractor on the base (Azimuth Axis) which is aligned with the north pole. For the altitude axis, circles can be made but a $25 digital compass is handier, they will read the altitude with an accuracy of 0.2 degrees. Combined with a planetarium program on a cell phone, tablet or laptop, this serves as a manual way to accurately point the scope.

A final thought.. Tracking.. at this stage, tracking adds a lot to the cost. Tracking can be nice, they say it adds a couple inches of effective aperture, probably now is not the time to invest in tracking, if you find out you really want it, you can think about that later.

Jon


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donnie3
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/15/04

Loc: bartlesville oklahoma
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5916239 - 06/12/13 01:47 AM

goto isn't a must and a lot of button pushing. push to is a more simple system and if your looking for some of the more difficult objects the digital setting circles are real handy. orions intelliscopes are very nice and easy the use. if you live in a light polluted area, star hopping can be a real pain. just my 2 cents here. donnie

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Jarrod
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 01/20/13

Loc: SE USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: donnie3]
      #5916261 - 06/12/13 02:12 AM

Tracking is very desirable. Goto is a bonus. Tracking turns what for me is the "annoyance" of chasing an object across the sky into a serene observing experience.

Could I live without it if I had to? Yes, but I don't have to and I'm glad for that.


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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Jarrod]
      #5916509 - 06/12/13 08:41 AM

Just a comment on GOTO. Just because an object is in the field of view, it still may be necessary to use a star chart to actually locate it...

The other night I was looking for NGC5634 from my light polluted backyard. It's a magnitude 9.4 Globular that's spread out over about 5 arcminues so the surface brightness was about 21.7 MPSAS, only the core would be detectable. I was using my 4 inch refractor.

I had the target well centered in the field of view but I couldn't see it because I did not know exactly where to look.

So, using Sky Safari, I saw that it was 1.5 arc-minutes west of a magnitude 8 star I had identified, I knew exactly where to look and sure enough, there it was...

Jon


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Jeff Morgan
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Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: donnie3]
      #5917295 - 06/12/13 04:25 PM

Quote:

goto isn't a must and a lot of button pushing.




You should see SkySafari on the iPad driving ServoCAT. It truly changes everything.


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jgraham
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Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #5917544 - 06/12/13 07:10 PM

Necessary?

No.

Really nice?

Absolutely.

I am not sure that I would want it on a Dob though. For me, the attraction of a Dob is its simplicity. I use a separate point-to system for my non-GoTo scopes.


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Sarkikos
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Scotophobe Maryland, USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: keyth]
      #5917864 - 06/12/13 10:26 PM

Quote:

I am considering purchasing a 10 " Dob Is a goto scope necessary . The prices are quit extreme for computerized scopes . How fast would planets etc go out of view I would like to hear from anyone that has either 10 ' dobs Thanks again Keyth near Toronto




Nope, not necessary. I've located and observed over 1000 different deep sky objects (not counting double stars) with my 10" Dob and never had goto or DSCs. No doubt many have observed many more than that without the help of these gizmos.

I've also observed - and drawn - planets at high power without tracking. Now, I admit tracking would be nice. But it's not necessary. Goto and DSCs are even less necessary - much less.

Mike


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Sarkikos
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Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5917872 - 06/12/13 10:31 PM

Quote:

Just a comment on GOTO. Just because an object is in the field of view, it still may be necessary to use a star chart to actually locate it...




Exactly. Just because you know a ball is in the ball field, doesn't mean you've found it. You still have to look around for it and verify that it is the ball, and not a rock or a toadstool.

By the way, I'd rather have Sky Safari on my tablet and no goto, than goto and no Sky Safari on my tablet.


Mike


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Starman81
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/06/08

Loc: Metro Detroit, MI, USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5917996 - 06/12/13 11:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Just a comment on GOTO. Just because an object is in the field of view, it still may be necessary to use a star chart to actually locate it...




Exactly. Just because you know a ball is in the ball field, doesn't mean you've found it. You still have to look around for it and verify that it is the ball, and not a rock or a toadstool.

By the way, I'd rather have Sky Safari on my tablet and no goto, than goto and no Sky Safari on my tablet.


Mike




This is not like those Ford commercials, you can have BOTH tracking and SkySafari on your tablet, no one says you can't.


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TexasRed
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/17/11

Loc: East Texas
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Starman81]
      #5918248 - 06/13/13 06:29 AM

Are GoTo and automatic tracking necessary? Of course not, but then neither are power-steering, power-brakes or air conditioning in my car. They just make driving easier and more enjoyable.

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Sarkikos
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Scotophobe Maryland, USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Starman81]
      #5918262 - 06/13/13 06:48 AM

Quote:

This is not like those Ford commercials, you can have BOTH tracking and SkySafari on your tablet, no one says you can't.




Yes, I would like both. I plan on having about a 14" Dob with tracking for my next scope.

Mike


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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Starman81]
      #5918273 - 06/13/13 07:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Just a comment on GOTO. Just because an object is in the field of view, it still may be necessary to use a star chart to actually locate it...




Exactly. Just because you know a ball is in the ball field, doesn't mean you've found it. You still have to look around for it and verify that it is the ball, and not a rock or a toadstool.

By the way, I'd rather have Sky Safari on my tablet and no goto, than goto and no Sky Safari on my tablet.


Mike




This is not like those Ford commercials, you can have BOTH tracking and SkySafari on your tablet, no one says you can't.




My point was simply that GOTO does not eliminate the need to learn to starhop, to read a chart.

In my mind, GOTO is not power steering or power brakes. Power steering and power brakes are a scope that moves easily and responds smoothly, without jitter or vibration. GOTO is using the GPS to guide me rather than reading the map for myself. In my experience, when I use a GPS to guide me, the second time I go there, I need to use the GPS, my attention is on the GPS, not where I am going. If I find the place using a map, electronic or paper, the second time I need to go there, I remember how to get there and I have a good sense of exactly where I am going.

I think the same is true of star hopping. I have a pretty good memory but sometimes I need to take a quick peek at a map. But then, I can point right to it. For the rest of this year, I will know exactly where NGC 5634 is, I will know exactly how to find it. Next year I will probably need a quick refresher.

Jon

Edited by Jon Isaacs (06/13/13 07:12 AM)


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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
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Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5918382 - 06/13/13 09:06 AM

And just to repeat myself, when you have about a dozen people in line at an outreach waiting for you to star hop from one object to the next, you'll find that goto is your friend. Besides, we all tend to be visually oriented and I've found that I get a lot of oohs, aahs and questions when my mount/scope moves from one side of the meridian to the other without doing anything but press a button or two. And for me, the best part is that the people in line aren't waiting for me to find the object and then I can let that dozen long line view and know that the object is still in the FOV because the mount is tracking.

David


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Sarkikos
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Scotophobe Maryland, USA
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5918576 - 06/13/13 11:35 AM

I have a contrarian opinion ... surprise! Non-tracking is better than goto/tracking for showing an object to a line of people.

When I use a non-tracking telescope, it automatically limits the time that each person can view the object. I ask them to let me know when it's almost out of view. Then I tell them, "Here. Let me move it back into view." I nudge the scope so that the object is just coming into the field again. Now I say, "Next!" and the next person in line gets a turn. Easy sneezy and no one gets to hog the telescope.

But I do feel like telling the ones who are busy gabbing and take their time getting to the eyepiece, "OK, slowpoke, back of the line! Next!"


Mike


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star drop
contra contrail
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Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5918593 - 06/13/13 11:47 AM

No it is not necessary but it is nice. Unless .. it goes haywire due to dew slippage, smoking wires etc. It is always nice to have a backup plan and a good star chart.

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CCC
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Reged: 11/28/10

Loc: Northern Manitoba
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: star drop]
      #5918610 - 06/13/13 11:58 AM

Is a goto dob necessary? No I don't think so. To be honest I don't use it that much on my scope to find stuff. However when viewing planets at high power the tracking is a really nice feature.

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Sarkikos
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Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: star drop]
      #5918614 - 06/13/13 12:00 PM

In the field I mostly consult Sky Safari on my tablet, but I still bring along Pocket Sky Atlas and Sky Atlas 2000.

In any case, it is always a good thing to actually know the constellations, major stars and the locations of the best eye candy without having to rely on goto/DSCs or star charts, just your memory.

Mike


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auriga
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/02/06

Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Achernar]
      #5918654 - 06/13/13 12:21 PM

If "push-to" refers to digital setting circles, such as Sky Commander, I have found them absolutely necessary for observing from the center of a large city in light-polluted skies. There are too few stars visible with a Telrad or finder scope to make star-hopping feasible.

I don't have tracking and I wish I did, but I feel it would add too much weight and expense. I don't need tracking at all for solo observing but for observing with friends it would be helpful, and for outreach it would be an enormous convenience.

At least, this has been my experience.

Bill


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KerryR
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Reged: 12/05/07

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Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: auriga]
      #5918722 - 06/13/13 12:56 PM

Even at public observing events, I find I don't miss goto or tracking. Most of the time, the targets are bright and easily found by memory, and powers are low enough that tracking is easy, even for the uninitiated (properly functioning bearings help a lot).

In fact, part of the fun at such events is showing folks my simple and 'cheap' 16", showing them how dead-reckoning or star hopping works, and letting them hand-track the scope themselves. Let's them know that the expensive and relatively complex computer controlled scopes aren't the only option.

It's interesting-- my comparatively simple scope always attracts a certain demographic as the night wears on, while the computer controlled scopes collect another.

All that said, I enjoy my CPC11 and LX90 8" tremendously. But simple, cheap, and clean Dobs have a particular place in my heart.

Edited by KerryR (06/13/13 01:49 PM)


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Peter Natscher
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Reged: 03/28/06

Loc: Central Coast California
Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Jarrod]
      #5918753 - 06/13/13 01:12 PM

I have tracking and GoTo on my scopes and have been using these devices for over 15 years. First ones were on my earlier Starmaster Dobs (i.e., Sky Tracker and Sky Commander DSCs). I always buy my scopes with these devices for I like the tracking and do use the GoTo during outreach for quick object location to show many people impatiently waiting in a line. For me, the tracking is far more important than the GoTo. If I could get the tracking option w/o GoTo, I would. After starting out my astronomy hobby observing all kinds of sky objects, and I have observed probably over 4,000 incl. observing and drawing the Herschel I's and II's, I'm now coming full circle and enjoying purely star hopping using no GoTo as I started back in 1995. With star hoppng to find objects, it's the manual hunt for the illusive objects that is satisfying than automatically letting the scope find it. GoTo throws everything in your face and after a while, the procedure gets boring. There's no brain work pushing buttons. Planning beforehand and locating an object on star atlas, star hopping using the atlas-finder-eyepiece routine is all part of the exhilarating experience of observing. Its the anticipation of finding what you have planned for. It's using your equipment more directly. It creates more of a connection with you, your telescope, and the sky. By the end of the evening, this is more satisfying than having used GoTo to find 30 objects on a list.

Quote:

Tracking is very desirable. Goto is a bonus. Tracking turns what for me is the "annoyance" of chasing an object across the sky into a serene observing experience.

Could I live without it if I had to? Yes, but I don't have to and I'm glad for that.




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Sarkikos
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Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: KerryR]
      #5918807 - 06/13/13 01:34 PM

Quote:

It's interesting-- my comparatively simple scope always attracts a certain demographic as the night wears on, while the computer controlled scopes collect another.




I'd guess that the ones really interested in the objects would like the simple scope, while the ones that are captivated by gadgets and gizmos would gravitate toward gotos.

When I talk to my fellow workers about my hobby, there are always some whose eyes will light up and they'll say "Wow" if I mention that for some telescopes you just need to plug in a few numbers and the mount moves by itself to point at the object you wanted. They have no interest at all in anything in the heavens unless it is involved somehow with modern technology. Apparently the same sort of folks who care more about the space program than about space.

Mike


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Sarkikos
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Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5918823 - 06/13/13 01:41 PM

Quote:

With star hoppng to find objects, it's the manual hunt for the illusive objects that is satisfying than automatically letting the scope find it. GoTo throws everything in your face and after a while, the procedure gets boring. There's no brain work pushing buttons. Planning beforehand and locating an object on star atlas, star hopping using the atlas-finder-eyepiece routine is all part of the exhilarating experience of observing. Its the anticipation of finding what you have planned for. It's using your equipment more directly. It creates more of a connection with you, your telescope, and the sky. By the end of the evening, this is more satisfying than having used GoTo to find 30 objects on a list.




+1 What's most satisfying for me is to not use goto or DSCs and still locate and observe 30 objects. A perfect evening would be if those 30 objects were all ones I'd never seen before.

Mike


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5918867 - 06/13/13 02:06 PM

Quote:

I'm now coming full circle and enjoying purely star hopping using no GoTo as I started back in 1995. With star hoppng to find objects, it's the manual hunt for the illusive objects that is satisfying than automatically letting the scope find it. GoTo throws everything in your face and after a while, the procedure gets boring. There's no brain work pushing buttons. Planning beforehand and locating an object on star atlas, star hopping using the atlas-finder-eyepiece routine is all part of the exhilarating experience of observing. Its the anticipation of finding what you have planned for. It's using your equipment more directly. It creates more of a connection with you, your telescope, and the sky. By the end of the evening, this is more satisfying than having used GoTo to find 30 objects on a list.






What really matters is what each of us enjoys. Peter enjoys starhopping and finds GOTO boring. When I started out, I used manual setting circles to find my way around the sky. But I realized that while I was finding the objects, it was a mechanical process and I really didn't know where in the sky I was looking.. It wasn't satisfying.

I found a Cometron Jr 125 at a yard sale... $40... Optically not much of a scope compared to orange tube C-8 but I discovered the joys of starhopping and since then, I haven't looked back...

The point here though is not that Starhopping is better than GOTO or Visa versa but rather what is important is doing it the way I like to do it.

Bill finds starhopping in his urban environment a severe limitation, from my urban backyard, probably clearer and darker than Bill's it's a challenge.. Spotting the Helix Nebulae with an 80mm in the muck.. it's not much to look at but it sure is a thrill to see it.

Jon


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Jarrod
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Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5926021 - 06/17/13 05:44 PM

Quote:

I'd guess that the ones really interested in the objects would like the simple scope, while the ones that are captivated by gadgets and gizmos would gravitate toward gotos.




I don't think that has to be the case. The reason I have a goto scope is because I don't like the equipment getting in between me and observing. Once your goto scope is setup, it pretty much disappears into the background and lets you concentrate on observing without thinking about pointing, tracking, etc.

I *would* agree with the corollary though: If you *don't* like gadgets and gizmos and/or find them confusing, then goto is NOT the thing for you.

Edited by Jarrod (06/17/13 05:46 PM)


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Re: Is a goto scope necessary new [Re: Jarrod]
      #5926075 - 06/17/13 06:19 PM

I can understand that starhopping requires more skill and talent than goto but for me goto has some serious advantages. One is I view from my home and may only view for a couple hours at a time. With goto I can get more objects in and search for objects on the edge of my scopes capability without spending a lot of extra time.

Goto enables me to search out neo's and comets without wondering if I am actually looking in the right place.

I can see starhopping for the easy to see objects but for the difficult ones give me my goto.

Edited by TL2101 (06/17/13 06:25 PM)


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Jarrod]
      #5926298 - 06/17/13 08:34 PM

Quote:


I don't think that has to be the case. The reason I have a goto scope is because I don't like the equipment getting in between me and observing. Once your goto scope is setup, it pretty much disappears into the background and lets you concentrate on observing without thinking about pointing, tracking, etc.




It really all depends on what we enjoy doing and how we enjoy doing it. For me, GOTO gets in the way of observing the night sky, it gets between me and the telescope. It represents time and effort, it represents taking my mind away from the eyepiece, from the night sky.

For me, observing includes more than just looking at a named object. Looking at a star field, I am observing it in much the same way I observe "objects", I am carefully looking at what I am seeing, inspecting it with care, learning and comparing it with what I remember. I "discover things" DSOs I had not known, even recognize variable stars because of changes to the field.

Herschel, Messier, those whom we follow, they discovered and they observed. It is possible for the modern amateur to enjoy those same thrills, there is no need to rush about, going from one object to the next without pausing to enjoy what is there, in between, what may be unseen.

Jon


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JayinUTModerator
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Re: Is a goto scope nescessary new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5926722 - 06/18/13 01:02 AM

As stated, the real question goes back to the OP now. What is it you want and why do you want it? Answer that question and you'll have your answer and you'll know what to do What I want, what I do is right for me and what I enjoy and where I am at in my journey in the hobby. Lots of views and opinions, but again its up to the OP to determine what they want. In the posts members have listed the advantages of having or not having. so good luck in your decision.

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