Telescope Reviews: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO

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Bret_Salyer
member

Reged: 05/09/08

Loc: BA, OK

Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO
#2569841 - 08/09/08 03:50 AM

Hey,
What about this scope that Rick has posted in the shop n swap for $1595 shipped?
Anyone have experience with its optics and mechanics?
He says its '84-'94 vintage.

Post Extras:

roadi
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 08/18/07

Loc: GGS

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Bret_Salyer]
#2569854 - 08/09/08 04:29 AM

Only thing I can add to your post, is that from what I've read and heard the Vixen 102 Fluorites has excellent optics wich doesn't give up anything to a Tak FS102 also fluorite, in optical performance, and some cases even exceeds the performance of the Tak FS102.
Same goes for the Celestron 102 fluorite, same optics as the Vixen.
Mechanical it should be good but not quite the same leaque as the Tak.

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Bret_Salyer
member

Reged: 05/09/08

Loc: BA, OK

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: roadi]
#2569861 - 08/09/08 04:41 AM

Thanks roadi for posting.
I have been thinking of a Tak TSA-102 or TV NP-101 for visual, but this caught my eye.
I am probably leaning towards the new scope, but thought I would kick it with you guys.

Post Extras:

roadi
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 08/18/07

Loc: GGS

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Bret_Salyer]
#2569922 - 08/09/08 06:30 AM

Between those two you mension I would chose the TSA, havn't looked through either of them, but claims tells the TSA will have a slight edge in collor correction and sharpness and here in Europe the price of the NP101 is nearly twice of the Tak. If price were equal, it would for me, be a very hard decission between those two.

By the way, I think the Vixen Fl 102 leaves nothing to be desired, in visual term!!

Edited by roadi (08/09/08 06:32 AM)

Post Extras:

Dave Novoselsky
sage

Reged: 06/16/08

Loc: SE Wisconsin/Chicago

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: roadi]
#2569983 - 08/09/08 08:14 AM

I too prefer the Tak TSA 102 to the NP101. Back to your original question however, I own a smaller Vixen Flourite, an 80 and the optics are indeed close if not equal to the Tak FC series of flourite refractors that were the contemporaries of the Vixen flourite doublet series. Tak, however, updated the FC series with the FS series of flourite doublets, which had slightly updated mechanicals and, more importantly, more sophisticated coatings. While the Vixen flourites matched the earlier Tak FC series, I would give the nod to a Tak FS series over the Vixen as the FS series coatings offered better contrast. (Indeed, if you read not just my reviews of the period, but those of Todd Gross and Ed Ting, 'shot offs' between the Tak 5" and 6" FS doublets and their AstroPhysics rivals had the Tak holding their own based on their amazing contrast on planetary an lunar.) Finally, Vixen flourites are rara avis and are normally more a collector item. The 102 Vixens and Tak FS 102s (which were produced in much greater number than the earlier FC series or the Vixen flourites) are going to be pretty close in price. I'd opt for the FS as providing better contrast unless you want to have the Vixen as a collector item. Dave (who is old enough and has been at this long enough to remember when the FCs and the Vixen flourites were the current and hot items.)

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roadi
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 08/18/07

Loc: GGS

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Dave Novoselsky]
#2570138 - 08/09/08 10:25 AM

I sure would like to do a comparo between a Vixen FL102 and my FS102'er just to see the diffrence, if any to my eyes. Contrast is amazing in the FS102, (without any extra gear behind it, other than the EP) and was the thing that staggered me at first light with it.

By the way, I wish I had the luck to get one of the older Tak FC100 f10 but only limited numbers are made!!

Edited by roadi (08/09/08 10:28 AM)

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chboss
professor emeritus

Reged: 03/24/08

Loc: Tokyo Japan

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: roadi]
#2570669 - 08/09/08 04:37 PM

I remember the Vixen FL 102 being the dream refractor in those days... I had the chance too look through one in the mid 90's and the optics were perfect. This is one of the reasons I bought a FS-102 in the late 90's which is still with me.

The one thing to upgrade is certainly the focuser it could not compete with todays models.

What is the focal ratio of the Vixen? f9?

Regards
Chris

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roadi
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 08/18/07

Loc: GGS

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: chboss]
#2570700 - 08/09/08 05:02 PM

f8.8 I believe, though I've heard of two diffrent f-ratio's where the first series, the older ones, should have slightly longer f-ratio. If its true I don't know.

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JakeJ
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/31/04

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: roadi]
#2570757 - 08/09/08 05:35 PM

I used to own a C-102F and it was a fantastic fluorite apo. It had excellent contrast and one of the best star tests I have even seen. It was f/9 IIRC.

I regret ever selling it and so now I am planning on ordering a Vixen ED102S to replace it.

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Dave Novoselsky
sage

Reged: 06/16/08

Loc: SE Wisconsin/Chicago

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: JakeJ]
#2571660 - 08/10/08 08:16 AM

I agree that the Vixen Fluorites were superb when they were made, and every bit the match for the Takahashis of the same vintage. I would not hesitate to buy the 4" now if I did not already have the FL80 Vixen and several Taks of the same era. I do believe the coatings and contrast on the FS series Taks allowed for better contrast, but that is just MHO and not to be taken as Gospel. By the way, the ne plus ulta of the Fluorite era was the Tak FCT series of Flourite triplets. I am fortuante to own the FCT-100 and the FCT-150. Marvelous optics and built to a standard that makes them a joy to look at in addition to looking through.
Of course, there is, as I say to often, no free lunch. The 100 is hardly a lightweight and the FCT 150 weighs 46+ pounds!!!!! Dave

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Booji
member

Reged: 10/12/07

Loc: North Carolina, USA

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Dave Novoselsky]
#2571892 - 08/10/08 11:11 AM

I have always wondered how the old Vixen FL's compare with the new Vixen ED models that they have now, which is better? Were the FL's discontinued because of manufacturing costs, if they had stayed with the fluorite would that have made the price of the FL's too high for want they wanted to price them at?

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JakeJ
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/31/04

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Booji]
#2572199 - 08/10/08 01:45 PM

Booji -

Hard to say why they discontinued it - it was a very popular and revered model - every one I have seen had stunning optics.

I ordered the new replacement model, which is a bit faster at f/8 - it should be here next week. I no longer have my original C102F to directly compare it to, but if anyone in the Los Angeles area would like to get together to do a comparison, I certainly would be interested to see how it compares.

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roadi
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 08/18/07

Loc: GGS

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Dave Novoselsky]
#2573127 - 08/10/08 09:11 PM

Dave, thats an impressive collection you have!!

I'l be happy for some time, if lucky enough just to touch and look at the Tak FCT150 IRL!! Want my FS102 for a peek through your FCT150??

By the way, how would you rate a Tak doublet against the Tak triplet for visual use, specially regarding contrast and sharpness on planets? not collor correction, as I don't care about that tiny bit the doublet shows, anyway!! Ofcause your opinion!!

Edited by roadi (08/11/08 12:05 AM)

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Wouter D'hoye
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 06/27/03

Loc: Belgium

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: roadi]
#2573931 - 08/11/08 09:32 AM

Hi,

These vixen fluorites are very nice! These are every bit as good as a tak or similar doublet fluorites. This unit is the older f/8.8 version. The newer units were f/9

Only drawbacks would be the unusual finder mount and the focuser that is a bit inaccurate for photography... though still workable.

I use the very same telescope and would buy it again without a doubt. Only upgrades I did were a moonlite focuser and a better finder.

wouter.

Post Extras:

Tom Trusock

Reged: 02/26/02

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: roadi]
#2573953 - 08/11/08 09:38 AM

Quote:

I sure would like to do a comparo between a Vixen FL102 and my FS102'er just to see the diffrence, if any to my eyes. Contrast is amazing in the FS102, (without any extra gear behind it, other than the EP) and was the thing that staggered me at first light with it.

Been there, done that. The FL102 (in either celestron or vixen badge) holds it's own very nicely. The only complaint I have about the Vixen is the mechanics. The focuser is serviceable, but could stand replacement.

IMO, this was (and remains) one of the best values in a visual apo ever made.

Post Extras:

roadi
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 08/18/07

Loc: GGS

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Tom Trusock]
#2574644 - 08/11/08 03:34 PM

Wouter,
Thats also what I would expect!

Thanks for the info Tom, you've looked through a lot of scopes and I've often read some of your rewiews, very informative and exciting

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Erik Bakker
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/10/06

Loc: The Netherlands, Europe

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Bret_Salyer]
#2574753 - 08/11/08 04:24 PM

The Vixen/Celestron fluorites are amazing instruments. I have the 55, 70 and 102mm. I enjoy my Fluorite 102mm generally more then my EDFS130. It has half the weight and gets to 150-200x easily without a Barlow. Last night I split Delta Cygni using 100x and resolved M13 all through the core. And Jupiter was wondeful. The European Tak importer considered the Vixens slightly better then the Tak's optically. The Vixen uses better glass for the mating element. It's longer focal lenght helps as well. And the elements are polished to an incredible level of smoothness. Also, both the Tak FC and Vixen Fluorites have the fluorite element in the back, where it is much better protected then behind the multi-coating in the FS series.
The OTA of the Vixen is excellent, the focuser functions but really begs for upgrading with e.g. a moonlight 2-speed.

In short: Fl102S: fabulous scope, like all other f/8 - f/9 fluorite doublets from that era.

Erik

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DLB242
Mr. Warmth

Reged: 07/29/08

Loc: Pen Argyl, PA

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Bret_Salyer]
#2574863 - 08/11/08 05:07 PM

The Vixen 102 Fluorite should be a close match optically against the TAK FS102. The TAK has the edge with quality of build, upgrading the focuser will fix that but will cost you more. The f/8.8 is the older model, it was imported here under the Celestron brand and I believe all of those had the adjustable lens cell unlike the f/9 versions sold later by Orion. I would go for it with an eye toward replacing the focuser later on. The price is right, I don't know the reputation of the seller being some what new here but if he is respected don't wait do the deal you will own one of greatest 4" APO of that era and no slouch even by today's standards.

Post Extras:

Bob S
member

Reged: 05/02/07

Loc: Illinois

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: DLB242]
#2574896 - 08/11/08 05:19 PM

I had the Orion version of the Vixen 102 fluorite. It had terrific optics, and could take crazy amounts of magnification on good nights. It showed great planetary detail, the cloud bands on Jupiter at about 200x were like an engraving. I had to sell it a few years ago, and have been kicking myself ever since. The market prices for them have been going up, and the price quoted seems about right.
Bob Schoenstene

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Dave Novoselsky
sage

Reged: 06/16/08

Loc: SE Wisconsin/Chicago

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: roadi]
#2575325 - 08/11/08 08:40 PM

Quote:

Dave, thats an impressive collection you have!!
I'l be happy for some time, if lucky enough just to touch and look at the Tak FCT150 IRL!! Want my FS102 for a peek through your FCT150??

By the way, how would you rate a Tak doublet against the Tak triplet for visual use, specially regarding contrast and sharpness on planets? not collor correction, as I don't care about that tiny bit the doublet shows, anyway!! Ofcause your opinion!!

My problem in answering your question is thinking back to what I saw in the EP of my Tak FS152, now several years in someone else's hands and what I see in the EP of the Tak FCT150 now. "Visual memory" is a tough call, but the coatings in the FS were more up to date so it may be a wash. I can tell you that having the FCT up against the AP 155 recently at a friend's place, I disagree with Ed Ting's placement of the Tak behind the AP, I'd rate the Tak ahead of the 155 AP in contrast and in 'sharpness.' Ed rated the FCT ahead of the FS 152, so perhaps that is the best answer I can offer without finding an FS152 to test again. I do recall my original review of the AP and the FS as too close to call, but based on that, and looking over my notes, I'm guessing the FCT series was a bit better.

Sorry to be evasive, but I just can't provide a definitive answer.

Now, the new Tak 102 triplet IS sharper and a bit more contrasty than the FS, based on a side by side, I say the new Tak triplet is the current ne plus ultra of 4" APOS. Dave

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Littlegreenman
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 05/09/05

Loc: Southern California

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Dave Novoselsky]
#2575883 - 08/12/08 04:37 AM

I have a Vixen/Celestron 90mm Fluorite. I've had the pleasure of looking through a friend's Celestron/Vixen black 4" Fluorite on several occaisions. I haven't compared either to a Takahashi, but I have also owned a TV-85, TV-101, and Vixen 114ED f/5.3. Orion brought in the f/5.3 version for a while; mine was shipped directly from Japan. I've also looked through a lot of achromats from 60mm to 5" both short and long.

The 90mm Fluorite was the best overall. For wide field FOV the 114 ED f/6.3 with a 35mm Panoptic was astounding. Color free at lower mags, nearly color free at higher mags.

The TV-101 I found unimpressive. I wonder about that particular scope though; it had some issues.

Back to the Vixen 90mm. My sample has a JMI Motofocus on it, which is great for fine focus. It gets a little in the way for focusing otherwise. You have to muscle through the resistance of the motor.

Baffles and 2" eyepieces
I am not sure but I seem to remember reading this probably here, maybe over on Astromart. The Celestron branded fluorites originally came with 1.25" focusers. I don't know if the Celestron's eventually came with 2" focusers or not. The Orion branded scopes I'm pretty sure came with 2" focusers; or at least they had a 58 or 60mm drawtube that took thread on nose pieces of different sizes. The earlier versions like my 90mm have smaller diameter drawtubes.

The issue is that the older 1.25" shipped scopes had interior baffles sized for 1.25" eyepieces. So, if you put an after market 2" focuser on a scope with baffles for a 1.25" eyepiece, you could get vignetting. So, instead of a Moonlight focuser with 2" capability, I should get a 24mm Panoptic that will show about the widest FOV anyway? Unless you want to start replacing the baffles while you're at it. Feel free to correct me on that if I've got it wrong.

One last little tidbit. The Vixen tubes are lighter than all of the other contenders. It may make a difference in what mount you could use. The 4" is listed at 7.9 lbs on the link below.

Littlegreenman

Company 7 commentary

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roadi
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 08/18/07

Loc: GGS

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Dave Novoselsky]
#2575927 - 08/12/08 06:48 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Dave, thats an impressive collection you have!!
I'l be happy for some time, if lucky enough just to touch and look at the Tak FCT150 IRL!! Want my FS102 for a peek through your FCT150??

By the way, how would you rate a Tak doublet against the Tak triplet for visual use, specially regarding contrast and sharpness on planets? not collor correction, as I don't care about that tiny bit the doublet shows, anyway!! Ofcause your opinion!!

My problem in answering your question is thinking back to what I saw in the EP of my Tak FS152, now several years in someone else's hands and what I see in the EP of the Tak FCT150 now. "Visual memory" is a tough call, but the coatings in the FS were more up to date so it may be a wash. I can tell you that having the FCT up against the AP 155 recently at a friend's place, I disagree with Ed Ting's placement of the Tak behind the AP, I'd rate the Tak ahead of the 155 AP in contrast and in 'sharpness.' Ed rated the FCT ahead of the FS 152, so perhaps that is the best answer I can offer without finding an FS152 to test again. I do recall my original review of the AP and the FS as too close to call, but based on that, and looking over my notes, I'm guessing the FCT series was a bit better.

Sorry to be evasive, but I just can't provide a definitive answer.

Now, the new Tak 102 triplet IS sharper and a bit more contrasty than the FS, based on a side by side, I say the new Tak triplet is the current ne plus ultra of 4" APOS. Dave

Hi Dave
Sounds like its a bit like splitting hairs between the Triplets and the fluorite doublets in visual term, If I understand it correct it would take an experienced observer to see the difrence in contrast and perhaps sharpness too.

Great info, I appreciate it, thanks!!

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Dave Novoselsky
sage

Reged: 06/16/08

Loc: SE Wisconsin/Chicago

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: roadi]
#2575989 - 08/12/08 08:10 AM

Yep

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DLB242
Mr. Warmth

Reged: 07/29/08

Loc: Pen Argyl, PA

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Littlegreenman]
#2576974 - 08/12/08 04:23 PM

I don't know about the older Celestron versions but the Orion version came with a 2" focuser. It was however shipped with with an 1 1/4" visual back. A 2" back was available from Orion and MSS also offered a 2" back with brass compression ring. Joe's much better than the one Orion sold. As far as I remember there were no problems vignetting with the f/9 Orion offering going to the 2" back. I had the f/6.65 Vixen VX-102ED Orion was selling at the same time and vignetting was not a problem with that scope with the 2" back. I have an MSS back for the Orion version if the original poster should buy this scope and wants to keep the stock focuser contact me.

Post Extras:

peleuba
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/01/04

Loc: Southern PA

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Tom Trusock]
#2577226 - 08/12/08 06:06 PM Attachment (110 downloads)

Quote:

Been there, done that. The FL102 (in either celestron or vixen badge) holds it's own very nicely. The only complaint I have about the Vixen is the mechanics. The focuser is serviceable, but could stand replacement.

IMO, this was (and remains) one of the best values in a visual apo ever made.

I owned several of these Vixen Fluorite doublet APO's going back to the days when Orion was the sole Vixen importer. They are wonderful telescopes and as you say hold there own in head to head comparos.

We've tested some using the Roddier method and have computed Strehls in the neighborhood of .97x. My avatar is an a star test example from a sample of the Vixen Fluorite with a Roddier computed Strehl of .974.

Roland speaks highly of these scopes and has described them as having a "honey of a lens". I would have to agree. There is less color then a TeleVue doublet and almost no spherical error. Interestingly, though, some of the later Orion branded versions had some striae (slight homogeneity) in the lens which is noticeable in the star test. It appears as little worm like lines running through the Fresnal pattern. At first glance you may think this is thermally related, but unfortunately they are in the glass, are always present and they rotate as the lens rotates. This aberration seems to have a minimal effect on the in-focus image.

I liked these scopes so much that I ran a WTB ad on Astromart a few years back I ended up with purchasing a several of the black-tubed Celestron branded scopes from the late 1980's. Both scopes tested out excellent with virtually the same sphercial correction. I used an indoor artifical star setup using a collimated light source to generate the "star". Looking for a project, I ended up keeping the one scope that was in the worst mechanical and cosmetic condition. I then embarked on a full restoration.

The final results are below... New paint, New focuser, New decals, etc.

Edited by peleuba (08/12/08 06:19 PM)

Post Extras:

peleuba
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/01/04

Loc: Southern PA

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: peleuba]
#2577230 - 08/12/08 06:08 PM Attachment (117 downloads)

Quote:

The final results are below...

More restoration pictures...

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peleuba
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/01/04

Loc: Southern PA

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: peleuba]
#2577234 - 08/12/08 06:09 PM Attachment (116 downloads)

Quote:

More restoration pictures...

Another one...

Post Extras:

Tom Trusock

Reged: 02/26/02

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: peleuba]
#2577241 - 08/12/08 06:12 PM

Beautiful Paul!

It's wonderful to see the old girl rescued.

I see, uh, the focuser is not *exactly* stock. Unless I'm misremembering the celestron focusers on these....

Thank you for posting these. (What focuser is that?)

Post Extras:

peleuba
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/01/04

Loc: Southern PA

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: peleuba]
#2577244 - 08/12/08 06:13 PM Attachment (85 downloads)

Quote:

Another one...

I have never been a big fan of the Vixen lens caps... So I had a new one made. At the same time I also had a solar filter made from Baader material.

Thanks for indulging me.

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JakeJ
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/31/04

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: peleuba]
#2577253 - 08/12/08 06:16 PM

Paul, that is the same scope I used to own. It had one of the best star tests I have ever seen. Not to mention how it did on planet observing.

Tom, yes, that is an updated focuser for sure.

Here is a photo of the one I owned:

Here is what the stock focuser looks like:

Post Extras:

Tom Trusock

Reged: 02/26/02

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: JakeJ]
#2577260 - 08/12/08 06:19 PM

That's what I remember. Thanks Jake. BTW - That looks in SUPERB condition. It's a pity you had to part with it.

Is that an old lumicon diagonal on the back?

Post Extras:

JakeJ
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/31/04

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Tom Trusock]
#2577272 - 08/12/08 06:22 PM

Hi Tom -

It was in mint condition - I bought it from the original owner who "never got around to using it". That is a Lumicon enhanced diagonal, which is what was sold stock with these back in the 1980's, IIRC. The mount is also what these were sold with, a "Super Polaris".

It was a fantastic scope, and I now regret selling it. I have a new Vixen ED103S on order to replace it - I hope it is as good.

Post Extras:

Tom Trusock

Reged: 02/26/02

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: JakeJ]
#2577280 - 08/12/08 06:25 PM

Classic! Thanks Jake.

T

Post Extras:

peleuba
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/01/04

Loc: Southern PA

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Tom Trusock]
#2577283 - 08/12/08 06:26 PM

Quote:

Beautiful Paul! It's wonderful to see the old girl rescued.

I see, uh, the focuser is not *exactly* stock. Unless I'm misremembering the celestron focusers on these....

Thank you for posting these. (What focuser is that?)

Hi Tom,

Thanks! She turned out exceptionally nice. That is a Moonlite dual speed that is manufactured specifically as a Vixen replacement. I have several Moonlite's and several FeatherTouch focusers. For this application, the Moonlite is the best. Its a plug-n-play. At least on my model, the action is as smooth as any of my FeatherTouch's

Post Extras:

Tom Trusock

Reged: 02/26/02

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: peleuba]
#2577289 - 08/12/08 06:27 PM

Wonderful telescopes gents!

Post Extras:

peleuba
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/01/04

Loc: Southern PA

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: JakeJ]
#2577310 - 08/12/08 06:34 PM

Quote:

Paul, that is the same scope I used to own. It had one of the best star tests I have ever seen. Not to mention how it did on planet observing.

Yes - same model - C102F. Correct - an exceptional star test. In this design the spherical aberration is adjusted out by altering the spacing between the elements. Moreover, in the 6 samples I used I have found only mild zonal errors. These really are fine telescopes and are incredible bargains on the used market.

And as someone previously stated... these represented some of the best 4" APO's of an earlier era.

Interestingly enough Vixen and Takahashi sourced the lenses from the same company - Optron - which is now a division of Canon.

Post Extras:

peleuba
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/01/04

Loc: Southern PA

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: JakeJ]
#2577338 - 08/12/08 06:46 PM

Quote:

It was a fantastic scope, and I now regret selling it. I have a new Vixen ED103S on order to replace it - I hope it is as good.

Please let me know your thoughts on performance of ED103S vis-a-vis the C102F. I've compared the Vixen Fluorite to various flavors of the Synta ED100 and I prefer the Vixen FL. Its a design that has withstood the test of time.

Post Extras:

JakeJ
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/31/04

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: peleuba]
#2577344 - 08/12/08 06:50 PM

Hi Paul -

Yes, I used to own a Synta ED100 also. I prefered the C102F. I recently looked through an ED103S and it reminded me very much of the 102F, which is why I ordered it. I definitely will give reports. I would love it if someone in the LA area could meet me for a direct comparo between the two as I no longer own my 102F.

Post Extras:

Dave Novoselsky
sage

Reged: 06/16/08

Loc: SE Wisconsin/Chicago

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: peleuba]
#2577347 - 08/12/08 06:52 PM

Vixen Fluorite vs Synta ED? No contest. Vixen wins. Dave (old rude and opinionated second generation American.)

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Joplin Motisher
member

Reged: 02/11/06

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: JakeJ]
#2577359 - 08/12/08 06:56 PM

From what I've heard the FL102S / C102F was the best 4" that Vixen has made to date. I've never had the opportunity to look through one though. I do have an FL80S which is about as good as it gets for an 80mm doublet apo :-) I owned a Vixen ED103S for about a year and it was a great scope. Excellent optics and a focuser that works well right out of the box, noticeably better than the ones from a few years back. The only reason I sold it was that I found a Vixen ED102S for a great price and outfitted it with a dual speed Moonlite focuser - all for about $500! I compared the ED103S to the ED102S side by side with a Giro 2DX using two different barlows with 12.5mm ultima eyepieces to get the same magnification. My conclusion after several nights of comparisons was that the views were quite similar. Despite the faster F 7.7 focal ratio (vs F9) the ED103S had a very slight edge on color correction. The ED102S had a very slightly better star test. I decided to keep the ED102S since I preferred the longer focal length (better match for my eyepiece set). The ED103S is definitely a fine scope though. One upgrade I definitely recomend is the Baader T2-32 2" Deluxe Clamp for Zeiss (M68) and Vixen (M60) to replace the stock 2" VB. For some reason Vixen still hasn't upgraded their Japanese made scopes with compression rings for the 2" back.

Joplin

Post Extras:

JakeJ
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/31/04

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Joplin Motisher]
#2577376 - 08/12/08 07:01 PM

Quote:

I found a Vixen ED102S for a great price and outfitted it with a dual speed Moonlite focuser - all for about $500!

Joplin -

You really shouldn't brag about stealing telescopes like that!

Nice to hear the color correction and focuser is good. I definitely look forward to trying it out.

Post Extras:

DLB242
Mr. Warmth

Reged: 07/29/08

Loc: Pen Argyl, PA

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: peleuba]
#2577833 - 08/12/08 10:19 PM

Paul,

Nice job with the restoration the new focuser is a nice touch. I always wanted one of the f/8.8's and was thinking of getting one off of Astromart but I found a sweet deal on a new SV102BV with a single speed Crayford for less than what used Vixen FL's were going for at the time. Ended up upgrading to a Feather Touch and still came out ahead since I would have wanted to replace the stock Vixen focuser. I had a chance to compare my Stellarvue to a TAK FS102 and it more then held its own. Against a TV102 it came out on top. So I am happy with what I have.

Post Extras:

Paul G
Post Laureate

Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Dave Novoselsky]
#2578315 - 08/13/08 06:59 AM

Quote:

Indeed, if you read not just my reviews of the period, but those of Todd Gross and Ed Ting, 'shot offs' between the Tak 5" and 6" FS doublets and their AstroPhysics rivals had the Tak holding their own based on their amazing contrast on planetary an lunar.

Those were the days!

Two of the reviews:

http://www.scopereviews.com/clash.html

http://www.scopereviews.com/clash2.html

All great scopes. Interesting that at the time the Tak FS cost nearly twice the AP, the FCT three times as much at $18K. Now the used FCT goes for about half of that. AP, then TEC and APM and others entering the market had a dramatic damping effect on Tak prices.

Post Extras:

Dave Novoselsky
sage

Reged: 06/16/08

Loc: SE Wisconsin/Chicago

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Paul G]
#2578525 - 08/13/08 09:30 AM

"All great scopes. Interesting that at the time the Tak FS cost nearly twice the AP, the FCT three times as much at $18K. Now the used FCT goes for about half of that. AP, then TEC and APM and others entering the market had a dramatic damping effect on Tak prices."

Yes and no. You are correct about the current price of an FCT 150 in excellent condition. The last one I am aware of being sold went for 10K without the field flattner. AP prices have always been a bit strange, as in the time frame when Ed and others such as yours truly were doing the comparisons of these 6" scopes, the AP prices from the company were quite low, but the lead time for purchase was measured in years. (It is longer now.) The price of an AP 155 in the 'secondary' market was not far off that of a Tak 152 that could be purchased off the shelf from a Tak dealer. There is something to be said about the false economy in not buying what you may believe to be a 'lesser' product when measured against the loss of three to five years of viewing pleasure.

I thought the Tak 152 and the AP 155 were pretty much neck and neck, and was fortunate enough to own both. I sold them both off when I thinned off the herd and spent more time observing with a smaller number of options.

The Tak FCT 150 never made any sense as a new purchase. The initial asking price did not justify what I later found to be only a slight visual advantage over the FS 152. I purchased an FCT 150 and an FCT 100 as I have always been a Tak enthusiast and wanted examples of the last, IMHO, of the built without regard for cost, and finished like a Swiss watch Takahashis. Did I or would I pay the orignal list price for one? Heck no. Are they nice to own as something that I enjoy using and an 'investment?' Perhaps so, if one considers a scope as an 'investment.'

I don't subscribe to the 'collectibles as investments' concept. I sold off all of my multiple APs (keeping only my 130 f/8.35) at a nice profit, but they were purchased as telescopes, not collectibles.

Oh, last comment. Ed and I disagree as to his conclusions in the 'ultimate refractor' shoot off listed above. You can see my thoughts on th AP155 vs FS152 in my CN review. From a performance standpoint, I thought the FCT 150 offered an edge over the AP 155. From the standpoint of price, I agree with Ed. Dave

Post Extras:

Paul G
Post Laureate

Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Dave Novoselsky]
#2579321 - 08/13/08 04:43 PM

I've had both an fct150 and an 155edfs on an interferometer. The Tak was in the low to mid-90's, best in the red at a little under .95, worst in the yellow green at about .91. The AP was best in the yellow green at .997, worst in the red at mid-.98's. Still, knowing the AP had a better figure and a little more aperture the visual differences were below threshold (~8% difference in brightness and contrast needed to be noticeable) and the images seemed identical to both scope owners. (I'm a little hazy on the Tak figures, has been a while and my notes bit the dust in Hurricane Ernesto, so they could differ by .01 or so, AP figures are correct)

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Dave Novoselsky
sage

Reged: 06/16/08

Loc: SE Wisconsin/Chicago

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Paul G]
#2579418 - 08/13/08 05:20 PM

Of course those figures re figures are on the two individual samples tested. The bottom line is that the two scopes you checked would not be capable of being differentiated by naked eye. I agree, which is why I never thought the visual star test method was a proper gauge of actual performance. I sat in on a discussion between Roland and Tom Back once where they were laughing about a post on a refractor group opining that his star test showed that the scope was "a .992" Since one of the two had checked the scope before it was delivered, they thought this inflated statement was quite funny, and said that perhaps this well-known pundit should be hired so the company could dispense with the expense of their optical testing gear.

That is why I recognize that my opinions are purely subjective. Good to know that my opinion on the 150 vs 155 was not off base as confirmed by the numbers above. It was based on my visual impressions of two scopes too close to call on that basis.

Star tests may show a gross abnormally, but IMHO, that's it. If I had an interferometer, I'd use on but heck, that sounds like work. (On the other hand, the guy with the Interoster in THIS ISLAND EARTH ended up with a great looking girl friend, so perhaps if I got an interferometer I'd get a better looking telescope? What do you think, Gus?) Dave

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Littlegreenman
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 05/09/05

Loc: Southern California

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Joplin Motisher]
#2581970 - 08/14/08 08:37 PM Attachment (88 downloads)

Visual back/Drawtube diameter variations: Out of curiosity I measured the 'drawtube' on my 90mm Celestron brand fluorite. (The chrome tube in the pics). It measures 52mm or 2 1/16" OD. The black threaded piece on the end of the chrome tube has an opening that is 32mm in diameter. It is threaded on the inside. I does not come off, and least by hand. The black piece off to the side threads into the scope and it takes a 1.25" diagonals and accessories. Vixen also makes or did make a 0.965 mounting piece. This focuser assembly is too small to use 2" eyepieces. (Excluding a 1.25" to 2" adapter).

I'm pretty sure that the Orion branded 4" scopes had drawtubes that are either 58mm or 60mm. To use a 2" eyepiece you just used a 2" adapter. Does anyone know if the older Celestron 4" fluorite scopes all came with the larger diameter drawtubes, or did some come with smaller diameter drawtubes?

BTW, you can't see it in this pic, but the focuser assembly threads directly on the tube. It is not held on with 3 screws like most current production scopes. That motor and dial hanging off is another story....

Littlegreenman

Edited by Littlegreenman (08/14/08 08:40 PM)

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jimguy08
member

Reged: 07/17/08

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Littlegreenman]
#2583699 - 08/15/08 06:11 PM

Littlegreenman....you got me curious and I measured the chrome tube of my 20 year old Celestron 102 Fluorite and it's 56mm. This scope is not set-up for 2 inch diagonals/eyepieces though I see that Baader Planetarium makes a '4 in 1' adapter which should work:

http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=8886

Rather than spend the money on the Baader, I'm saving for a MoonLite Crayford...

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LewisM
member

Reged: 01/23/13

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Joplin Motisher]
#5692267 - 02/21/13 07:09 AM

Reviving an OLD thread...

I have had a Vixen FL102S for some time now. It has the Vixen research "AD-VIX" decal on it. Just today I acquired an original FL102S focal reducer, as well as an original brown-green finder shoe (want to put the mini-guider on the OTHER finder bracket side).

I love the standard focuser - I find it NO trouble at all with astro-imaging, as it will hold a LOT of weight, all night, repeatably. It HAD A Moonlite on it when I bought it, but I had insisted the seller send the original focuser. Glad he did, because I feel the original - at least mine - is light years ahead of a Moonlite and I swapped back(I never have liked ML focusers). I have just ordered though a new pinion and the Vixen dual speed knob for it, as I want just that extra exact focus for my imaging. I image at the native F/9 or the reduced f/6.3 (was using a Vixen ED reducer until today).

I have owned a Tak. I don't any more, and I don't regret selling it either. This FL102S beats ANY Tak I have looked through - yes, including the much revered FSQ106. Colour correction and contrast is incredible in this scope - SO much better than the FS-60C I owned for a week (before I realised it was NOWHERE near as good as everyone claims - in fact, I was getting significant CA on Jupiter and other bright objects with it).

Only downside to me is the awkwardness of adapters to fit (though NOWHERE near as painful or expensive or awkwardly stupid as Tak!!!). With my newly acquired SXVR-M25C CCD, I have had to create an adapter to fit and space from the FR to the camera - not difficult, but not over-the-shelf either (since the SXVR does NOT use standard T threads).

I have owned a LOT of telescopes. The only one that is still with me today, and won't part my warm grip (going to have to be VERY dead) is the FL102S. It does everything I want it to and more. Just takes a little longer sometimes

Post Extras:

STEEL
sage

Reged: 01/24/07

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: LewisM]
#5692338 - 02/21/13 08:26 AM

Also I have made the comparison with the Takahashi FS102 NSV, even if it is correct well in CA it is not comparable to the Vixen FL102s that it is a true color free (Tested in Venus and Sirius).

Post Extras:

Kutno
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 08/17/09

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: LewisM]
#5692639 - 02/21/13 12:22 PM

Welcome to Cloudy Nights, Lewis!

Your report is an overdue corrective. It is unfortunate that Vixen's refractors have, at times, gotten a bum rap in this forum.

All the best!

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chrisastro8
member

Reged: 09/25/10

Loc: Texas

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Kutno]
#5692923 - 02/21/13 03:15 PM

Lewis, the quality of the FL102S lens which I also own is outstanding.
I would like to ask where you ordered the new Pinion and Vixen Dual speed focuser knob from? I'm very interested in doing the same.
Thanks for posting, Chris

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StarStuff1
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 04/01/07

Loc: South of the Mason-Dixon Line

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: chrisastro8]
#5693109 - 02/21/13 04:45 PM

About 25 years ago I bought a nice 4.5-in f/12.5 Fraunhofer doublet refractor. On planets and double stars it would out perform a club member's 8-in Meade S/c. Then a few years later at a star party a guy set up next to me with a mere 4-in f/9-ish scope. Saturn was prime that night and I decided to show that the larger aperture I had would give a better image with more detail than his scope. I asked him to take a look through my scope at a decently high mag. He looked and said "Very nice, would you like to look through my Celestron refractor?" I did and I was almost flabbergasted. The increase in contrast and sharpness of detail blew me away. "What kind of scope is this?" I asked. "Oh, it is a C102f that recently came out."

Well, within a year I had sold the 4.5-in and bought a gently used C102f. A few years later we built a new home and money was tight and I had to sell the Celestron. When finances became better I bought another used one and still have it. I love the light weight of this scope and the focuser has not been issue. BTW, I don't do AP.

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LewisM
member

Reged: 01/23/13

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: chrisastro8]
#5693138 - 02/21/13 05:02 PM

Chris,

I ordered them from a local shop here in Australia - www.myastroshop.com.au

Not listed on the site (apart from the dual speed adapter), but if you email Steve, he will order the replacement pinion. The dual speed knob is $269 (OUCH, but I have had one before on a VC200L, and it works - well!) nd the pinion is about $30. Same meshing ratio, so no need to alter anything.

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johnnyha
Postmaster

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: LewisM]
#5693242 - 02/21/13 06:00 PM

If this Vixen will beat a Tak FS102NSV that is saying something! My Tak FS102NSV was outstanding and tested better than 1/10 wave - essentially perfect. I always figured the Vixens were probably just the rejected FS102 lenses but obviously I was grossly mistaken.

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Pete-LH
sage

Reged: 03/25/09

Loc: Wilmington, DE

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Kutno]
#5693244 - 02/21/13 06:00 PM Attachment (17 downloads)

I guess I have not come across any bum raps on Vixen Refractors from this era. The reviews I've seen are all positive. At the same time I'd have a hard time saying whether the Tak or the Vixen Fluorites from this era are better ... I find both to be great. I have had a few Vixen achromats from this (Vixen Superpolaris) time frame and they are all very nice as well. Now I have the FL90S as well as the Tak FS-102 and Vixen 90mm f/11 Custom 90M. I'm trying to downsize to a C-8 and one of these three but cannot let go ... The advantage of the Vixen is its weight: it is so light but well made with great optics.

Post Extras:

LewisM
member

Reged: 01/23/13

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Pete-LH]
#5693552 - 02/21/13 09:01 PM

The only thing I have "modified" on my FL102S is the focuser knobs. Plastic, in my opinion, does NOT belong on a telescope, so I had a friend machine me up a set of solid stainless steel ones, with a fine knurl edge and a centre scribed ring (like the originals). LOVELY (and add a little more weight to the back, which is good).

Interesting the US Vixens seem to predominately have the swing over, centrally mounted Celestron stlye finder. Mine has the cast-in dovetail offset to the left, and a flat area to the right, pre-drilled for mounting another base (the Orion flat base and then dovetail shoe fits this PERFECTLY).

I'll do some photos of mine later on today. I had her out last night changing the guiding system over - I really dislike ring mounted guiders (diff. flex), so I am going to rail mount the short guide scope centrally on top of the scope with low-profile rings, or even a Vixen low-profile (short) bracket - I am using the Orion mini guidescope.

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John Huntley
professor emeritus

Reged: 07/16/06

Loc: South West England

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: LewisM]
#5693607 - 02/21/13 09:34 PM Attachment (17 downloads)

My Vixen ED102SS is from this era. It's a lovely little scope and very well corrected for CA/SA for it's F/6.5 focal ratio:

Edited by John Huntley (02/21/13 09:35 PM)

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Fomalhaut
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 08/16/08

Loc: Switzerland

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: John Huntley]
#5694015 - 02/22/13 04:38 AM

For two years, I had the Vixen F102/900 and the Tak FCT100/640 at the same time on two mounts and so could test them directly against each other, which I did on several occasions with different seeing conditions. The Vixen was fantastic, indeed, however the Tak (being a fluorite triplet) turned out to be even better (better start test, better CA, better mechanics, more weight, shorter tube, same torque) so I kept the Tak and sold the Vixen and never have regretted it since. The better is the enemy of the good, indeed...

By the way: The Vixen was faster in cooling down as well as in dewing up...

Well, the Vixen 102F and the Tak FCT100 are both not made any more - but the two versions of the Tak-TSA (being ~on the same optical and mechanical level as the FCT100) still are... The Vixen-ED 4-inchers are very decent instruments, but not quite on the same high optical level as the V-F102 or the Tak FC100 / FS102 were.

Chris

Edited by Fomalhaut (02/23/13 04:32 AM)

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Pete-LH
sage

Reged: 03/25/09

Loc: Wilmington, DE

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: LewisM]
#5694034 - 02/22/13 05:09 AM

I actually don't mind the plastic knobs and put them back after making a similar change.
I think the finder design is related to the time-frame of production. I believe all of the Superpolaris related production scopes have the four hole center option on the focuser which can mount the rotational or a fixed design. Both of my 90 mm's(FL90S and 90M) have this design and I recently sold a 60S and 60M and also a Celestron/Vixen Orange Tube C60L (f/15) that all had this design (but with a fixed offset angle). All great 60mm scopes as well. I became a little obscessed with this series of scopes and soon ran out of room in my office.
For the 2" focus tubes of this series they also have what is now a nonstandard thread and it is difficult to get after market visual backs. I have one made by Lumicon. I have been trying to find one that was made by Mercury but no luck. I believe the later Vixen Fluorites with the Dovetail inset base have the standard threading diameter and threads per length. One other deficiency is that with a two inch diagonal there is not quite enough infocus with standard orthos and plossels.

SP Mount Manual Download

Post Extras:

Erik Bakker
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/10/06

Loc: The Netherlands, Europe

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Fomalhaut]
#5694061 - 02/22/13 06:15 AM

I have had 3 Vixen fluorites: 55mm 70mm and 102mm. The 55mm had the best optics of them all: better than 1/10th wave P-V. The 102 was not quite as good but still a wonderful scope. Sample-sample variation is bigger in the Vixens than in the Tak's. The Tak FS 102 NSV I now have has the best optics of them all. I tested 2 of them side-side before buying, both were similar. Better than 1/10th wave P-V at the eyepiece. This Tak FS102 NSV has better color correction than the FL102 S I had. An FC100 I once tested was less well corrected for color than the FL102 S, but had superb spherical correction.

In the Vixen fluorites, color correction deteriorates as aperture increases. Hence the 90 and 102 mm FL's were slower than the 55, 70 and 80mm f/8 FL's.

From what I have seen, I get the impression Tak used different optics on the last FS 102 NSV series they produced. A definite step up in color correction from the FL102 S.

So in concluding, both Tak and Vixen made great fluorite doublets. With Tak you have the biggest chance of getting a good one. Both have made stunning samples. If you have one of those, it will match or beat any other fluorite doublet you care to put next to it.

YMMV.

Post Extras:

LewisM
member

Reged: 01/23/13

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Pete-LH]
#5694102 - 02/22/13 07:19 AM

My Fl102S has original Vixen 60mm threads and bits - had to buy a 2" adapter separately - don't like it, apart for visual. With imaging, I APPRECIATE the 60mm, as you get plenty of light on chip, and threaded on means limited chance of sag due to the camera weight unevenly bearing on the screws or compression ring.

The adapter I use to go from FR to CCD DOES involve a 2" tube nosepiece on the CCD, but the adapter I cobbled up has 4 tension screws - 2 on the tube rebate, 2 at a 1/4" back from the front - I could not pull it apart for WANTING to - didn't budge even a mm. I reckon it'll hold

Just hope I got the distance right HA HA.

Never had a focus issue - in or back - with it visually or imaging. Visually and imaging at f/6.3 it comes to focus with no extension, though, it comes to focus at f/9 with a 50mm extension (it actually requires LESS, though the 50 is all I have - though, usually for security, I will use the 60mm threaded Vixen extension, as I do NOT trust compression rings a great deal.

Edited by LewisM (02/22/13 07:29 AM)

Post Extras:

LewisM
member

Reged: 01/23/13

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: LewisM]
#5694108 - 02/22/13 07:25 AM

I was bitterly disappointed with the Tak I had - the blue/purple halo on bright objects was exceedingly annoying. I often felt the achromatic finder gave a better picture than the main scope itself!!! (they are INCREDIBLE finders!) And this was using Pentax EP's and a TV diagonal.

Vixen finders...well, not world class in my opinion, but I really don't use a finder much apart from running my alignment routine. Might grab a Tak finder one day for it

Edited by LewisM (02/22/13 07:25 AM)

Post Extras:

Erik Bakker
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/10/06

Loc: The Netherlands, Europe

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: LewisM]
#5694163 - 02/22/13 08:21 AM

Hi Lewis,

Was the Tak that disappointed you an FS60, an f/5.9 doublet?
If so, I can understand what you saw. The f/8 and slower doublets are in a completely different class. Their visual performance is stunning.

Post Extras:

LewisM
member

Reged: 01/23/13

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Erik Bakker]
#5695246 - 02/22/13 05:39 PM

The one I owned was the FS60C - not impressed much if at all by it - as I said, the finder I felt was better!

I have looked through the better and bigger Taks, and yes, they ARE nice, but I always come back to my FL102S.

Post Extras:

Kevin Barker
member

Reged: 04/22/09

Loc: Auckland, NZ

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: peleuba]
#5695375 - 02/22/13 06:45 PM

An interesting thread,

I have looked through a Vixen version F102 a couple of times some time ago late 1990's and yes it was a great 4 inch visual apochromat.

The owner a Kiwi from Hong Kong previously owned 102 f-6.5 ED and 102 Ed F-9 scopes. The f 6.5 was not well corrected spherically and was a bit soft in focus. It was a bit of a lemon and I suspect the lens was out of collimation or poorly retained as it threw up astigmatism as well.

The ED f-9 was quite appealing but did not perform as well on Mars as well as a Zeiss APQ100/1000. Hardly surprising.

The Fluorite doublet however was excellent, I did not have a Zeiss with me to compare it with but i reckon it was a hair splitting exercise visually.

I recall splitting tightish doubles in Orion with real ease pretty much as the Zeiss did. Eta, 52 , trapezium E and F etc.

I always thought the ota was a bit cheaply put together, I recall the focuser was not as smooth as you'd get on a Tak. I got the impression though that the F102 scope performed slightly better than a Tak FS 102 which another friend owned.

Opinion I know, the F102's get snapped up pretty quickly as do the 80 and 90 mm versions when they appear for sale.

Post Extras:

LewisM
member

Reged: 01/23/13

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Kevin Barker]
#5696042 - 02/23/13 04:20 AM

Mine literally SNAPS into focus - it's either in focus or not! Having said that, since my main purpose is imaging, I am going to replace the pinion with an AX103S pinion and use the dual speed knob, since I want even more hair splitting focus.

The focus with my 102 is simply incredible - RAZOR sharp pin points.

The focus on the Tak FS60C was really unimpressive to me - certainly did not snap into focus, and by god was it a painful exercise trying to find a combination of adapters etc to even make it COME to focus at all - it was an IN focus issue - simply would not go far enough in (using regular off-the-shelf diagonals)!!! Utterly damned frustrating, and if you don't buy all the Takette over-priced adapters, you are literally up a certain creek without a paddle! I swore off/at Takahashi for life after their asininely insane adapter systems required to even do the SIMPLE stuff, let alone imaging (I had to get all sorts of combinations of little spacers etc). The drawtube on the FS60C moves all of what - 2" if lucky? I ended up getting Borg adapters to fit it - easily half the price for as-good quality. And the focuser certainly wasn't anything exceptional. Really left feeling let down by the famous Takahashi.

Never had an issue with Vixen that was not simply overcome - I have owned R200SS, VC200L and the FL102S. ALL were/are superb instruments.

Edited by LewisM (02/23/13 04:23 AM)

Post Extras:

Erik Bakker
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/10/06

Loc: The Netherlands, Europe

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: LewisM]
#5696058 - 02/23/13 04:42 AM

Quote:

The one I owned was the FS60C - not impressed much if at all by it - as I said, the finder I felt was better!

I have looked through the better and bigger Taks, and yes, they ARE nice, but I always come back to my FL102S.

Hi Lewis,

That is what a good apo is all about. Glad you found one and enjoy it so much. The stars couldn't care less about the brand that focusses their light, as long as it is focussed properly

Post Extras:

LewisM
member

Reged: 01/23/13

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Erik Bakker]
#5696131 - 02/23/13 07:46 AM

Quote:

Hi Lewis,

That is what a good apo is all about. Glad you found one and enjoy it so much. The stars couldn't care less about the brand that focusses their light, as long as it is focussed properly

That is 100% correct. Been lucky with EVERY Vixen I have had being superb, yet oddly an average Takahashi.

I'd been using ED refractors prior to getting the FL102S, and I was never truly happy - bloated stars with non-concentric halos, average contrast (all Skywatcher/Orion Chinese Synta stuff, which, worse luck, is the same as the newer cheaper Vixen ED refractors). Worst of all was the North Group ED127 I had - SOFT focus (NEVER could I get sharp stars), and just horrible build quality - I hope at least Meade and Explore refine them before reselling them under their badge!

Then the Vixen was offered to me - it was a mad rush to see who would get it, even a couple American buyers vying for it, but I was succesful. I paid $1700 all up for it (with the Moonlite focuser and a Losmandy D plate, and insisted the original focuser was included, THANKFULLY!)

Post Extras:

Grava T
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Quebec, Canada

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: LewisM]
#5696161 - 02/23/13 08:26 AM Attachment (7 downloads)

I love mine although I've only had it under the stars a couple of times since I had it due to cloudy skies. Promising views so far but I definitely need some higher power eyepieces now. When I first got it I was really surprised how light weight the OTA was.

Post Extras:

Grava T
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Quebec, Canada

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Grava T]
#5696165 - 02/23/13 08:29 AM Attachment (12 downloads)

It has a 2" drawtube but only a 1.25" visual back. Vixen and Baader both sell a 2" visual back that will fit. Maybe someday I'll upgrade but I need a 2" eyepiece and diagonal first. I found mine with a GP mount in mint condition for $700!

Post Extras:

Grava T
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Quebec, Canada

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Grava T]
#5696167 - 02/23/13 08:33 AM Attachment (6 downloads)

Vixen optics.

Post Extras:

Simon D.
member

Reged: 01/31/13

Loc: Canada

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Grava T]
#5696210 - 02/23/13 09:09 AM

Funny that this comes up now. I'm just returning to astronomy after a 9 year hiatus. In the closet is my pristine Vixen Fluorite that I bought in 2003, and at the time, they had announced they would be discontinued, so I bought one of the last of the inventory. I'm pleased to see that the scope has such a high reputation. While I was away from astronomy I thought several times about selling it, but something held me back. I'm glad I didn't, as it will serve me well for getting back into the hobby. My interests are planets and doubles, so it's a great scope for that. I've also decided that since I'm getting back into it, I should upgrade a few things.

First, I just received and installed this week my new Moonlight focuser. I love it...smooth as silk and love the aluminum finish. Secondly, I never did learn the sky well, so I have a Sky-Watcher HEQ5 goto mount in the mail. And third, I have a couple of new eyepieces on the way...8mm and 12mm Televue Delos.

My scope has hardly seen a star in 9 years, but I can't wait for clear skies (been cloudy or too cold here in Nova Scotia for weeks). Jupiter is high in the sky and I also recently bought a Canon T3i DSLR and I have T-adapters on the way so I'll give imaging a shot too.

Post Extras:

STEEL
sage

Reged: 01/24/07

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Simon D.]
#5696274 - 02/23/13 10:09 AM Attachment (20 downloads)

Look at the chromatic aberration of these 5 refractors of 4" APO,also the Takahashi FS-102 defends it well enough:

Post Extras:

LewisM
member

Reged: 01/23/13

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: STEEL]
#5700870 - 02/26/13 12:56 AM

VERY interesting comparison - grazie Angelo!

Got the AX103 pinion and pinion plate ordered to upgrade the FL102S, with replacement knobs and the dual speed assembly. Now to await it's arrival from the land of Nippon

Our weather is horrendous Down Under lately - been rain and cloud for nigh on 2 months now - 1 imaging session the whole time! Monsoonal summer it has been, and now the snakes are out! Grrrrr.

Roll on winter, PLEASE

Post Extras:

LewisM
member

Reged: 01/23/13

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: LewisM]
#5700872 - 02/26/13 12:57 AM Attachment (13 downloads)

Found some photos of when I first bought the FL102S - I have not changed much, except the focuser knobs and different diagonal (when I am not imaging)

Edited by LewisM (02/26/13 12:58 AM)

Post Extras:

LewisM
member

Reged: 01/23/13

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: LewisM]
#5700873 - 02/26/13 12:59 AM Attachment (7 downloads)

More - note the installed dew heater - VERY handy and neat!

Post Extras:

LewisM
member

Reged: 01/23/13

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: LewisM]
#5700874 - 02/26/13 01:01 AM Attachment (6 downloads)

More - before I found a mate had the ORIGINAL finder (I know 4 prior owners of this scope!).

These are the seller's photos.

Post Extras:

LewisM
member

Reged: 01/23/13

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: LewisM]
#5700879 - 02/26/13 01:03 AM Attachment (5 downloads)

Last one...

Original Vixen 60mm focuser - no 2" drawtube here, though it does have the Vixen 60mmto 2" clamping ring adapter. SO much simpler than Takahashi's 65 little adapters to make it work

Post Extras:

Grava T
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Quebec, Canada

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: LewisM]
#5701091 - 02/26/13 07:32 AM

Nice job on the dew heater. Interesting that your lens cell is black. Did you change it?

Post Extras:

Kunama
super member

Reged: 10/22/12

Loc: Australia

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Grava T]
#5701120 - 02/26/13 07:58 AM Attachment (18 downloads)

Nice scope that FL102S, and the fluorite element is safely behind the front one. Just don't get any moisture inside the scope as the fluorite element is not coated and fluorite sucks up moisture like a sponge causing it to cloud over. A desiccant cap into the ep adapter would be a good idea in humid climates.

Lewis, have you looked at the FT Micro Pinion Assemblies? I just installed one on my TSA120, a beautiful piece of metallic art.

Edited by Kunama (02/26/13 08:01 AM)

Post Extras:

tomchris
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/22/10

Loc: Connecticut, U.S.A.

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Kunama]
#5701564 - 02/26/13 12:24 PM

I was wondering if anyone ever got a chance to compare the achromat version of this scope with the Florite one being discussed. I have the achromat version and do no imaging. I've been told that, for just visual, the achromat is excellent...and, yes, I have read Ed Moreno's excellent review. Way back when, I originally bought the original Celestron/Vixen C102 but, even then, I debated on whether to spend twice as much and get the Florite one. Any comments on this?

Post Extras:

LewisM
member

Reged: 01/23/13

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Grava T]
#5702015 - 02/26/13 04:33 PM

Re the black lens cell: That's the way it came. IT's the third or fourth one I have seen similar, so I think it is normal. This one does have the AD-VIX research decal on the side - that MAY make some difference??

Matt, I contacted Ft - they did not even know about this version, and said it was a Chinese made Vixen and so any Synta focuser would work.I had to explain to them the MAJOR differences! So, decided to go with Vixen original parts from the AX103S instead.

I have a dessicant bag in front of the focal reducer at all times when not in use

Post Extras:

Grava T
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Quebec, Canada

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Kunama]
#5702141 - 02/26/13 05:42 PM

Hey Kunama, does FeatherTouch make the micro pinion assembly for the Vixen FL102mm? Looks great!

Post Extras:

LewisM
member

Reged: 01/23/13

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: Grava T]
#5702182 - 02/26/13 06:03 PM

When I contact F T, they didn't evn know exactly what the FL102S was, and insisted it was a odern Synta made Vixen, which they are not even close to.

I don't think they make a pinion assembly for one.

Pricing for the AX103 pinion, plate, knobs and dual speed knob to retrofit to an FL102S came in under F T's cost anyway, so I am going that way - just waiting on the knobs to arrive, or I will get custom stainless ones again.

Post Extras:

peleuba
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/01/04

Loc: Southern PA

Re: Vixen FL102S Fluorite APO new

[Re: tomchris]
#5703615 - 02/27/13 02:30 PM

Quote:

I was wondering if anyone ever got a chance to compare the achromat version of this scope with the Florite one being discussed. I have the achromat version and do no imaging.

Sky and Telescope did this very thing back in 2000 or 2001. They compared the 102FL, the F/6.5 version of 102ED at 102 Achromat. Alan Dyer wrote the comparison. Very nice article if I recall.

Bob Midiri, a member of CN got a letter published in S&T a few months later on his critique of Alan Dyer's review. Maybe Bob will chime in.

Also, I have owned and restored a number of the C102FL's and they are really very nice. Probably my favorite longish focus 4" refractor.

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