deezdrama
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/29/05
Posts: 1698
Loc: Central Illinois
|
|
I am looking to buy a used 4-5" doublet apo and probablly an az-alt mount like the portamount- I need a grab and go setup for my backyard. I want to find a quality refractor used for under $2500. Purely visual use. Ive had dobs large and small,cats large and small, but am being attracted to a 4-5" refractor this time around.
im thinking of the takahashi fs102 but am not sure about there stock focuser- i heard there ok but how do they compare to a dual speed feathertouch or the like?
Any other suggestions are appreciated.
--------------------
Meade 12" LX200GPS / Moonlite Focuser--> Retired Dr. Clay Sherrod's Arkansas Sky Observatory - Sky Patrol Telescope
|
cuzimthedad
Just Be Cuz
Reged: 04/09/06
Posts: 2849
Loc: Sonoma, Northern California
|
|
For wide field grabngo viewing you can't beat the tried and true 4" TV Genesis. I had mine mounted on the Orion VersaGo alt az mount and could be out viewing in 2 minutes. I just sold my Genesis for a TV102. With a 31T5 the Gen gave a 5 degree afov, the TV102 with the same ep gives a 3 degree afov and better contrast. Both take magnification extremely well although with the longer focal length of the TV102 you won't have to barlow as often as you would with the Genesis. You can pick up the Genesis on the used market for anywhere between 1K-5K. I just bought the 102 package with an Astro Physics 2" diagonal and TV red dot finder for $1700...a truly great deal. From experience I can highly recommend either scope.
--------------------
Dan
20" Obsession (Freedom I...aka cuzimthescope)
TV102 (Star Dagger)
Megrez 80SD
Antares 1529 on LXD75 Mount (Phoenix II)
Bushnell 7X50 Binoc
Zhumell 20X80 Astro-binocs
EPs: TV 2.5, 5, 7, 9, T6s, 17 & 22 T4s, 31T5, 13E, 8E.
TV Plossls 8, 11, 15, 20, 25, 32, 40mm
The Off Fisher Lane Irregulars
|
cuzimthedad
Just Be Cuz
Reged: 04/09/06
Posts: 2849
Loc: Sonoma, Northern California
|
|
Genesis focal length is 500mm. TV102 is 880mm
--------------------
Dan
20" Obsession (Freedom I...aka cuzimthescope)
TV102 (Star Dagger)
Megrez 80SD
Antares 1529 on LXD75 Mount (Phoenix II)
Bushnell 7X50 Binoc
Zhumell 20X80 Astro-binocs
EPs: TV 2.5, 5, 7, 9, T6s, 17 & 22 T4s, 31T5, 13E, 8E.
TV Plossls 8, 11, 15, 20, 25, 32, 40mm
The Off Fisher Lane Irregulars
|
ChazK
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/05
Posts: 1453
Loc: Melbourne, Florida
|
|
I think that you would be very happy with a Tak. For visual only the FS102 is a fine choice. The Televue line has some nice toys in the price range as well.
--------------------
Tak TOA 130mm/NJP Temma2
Tak FS 60CB
Canon 40D (unmodded)
Astronomik CLS
Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6
www.digitalunatic.com
|
Luigi
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2360
Loc: Massachusetts
|
|
I can recommend the EON 120. The new SW 120 pro is probably just as good at a significantly lower price. Which mount you choose will determine if this is a G&G setup or not. I have an Orion AZ which works well with the scope, but you will want to seperate the OTA and mount before moving it, imo.
--------------------
17.5" f/5 Discovery Truss
IM715 7" f/15 MCT, Eon-120ED
Lunt 60mm Ha on a Nexstar mount.
CG5A coffee grinder, Orion Skyview Alt-AZ
35,19,15 Pans.9 Nag. Meade 24.5 4kSWA, 4.7 5kUWA.
BO-TMB 7mm planetary. Edge-on 3mm.
Zeiss Diascope 85
Zeiss, Leica, Canon IS, Fujinon, Nikon binos
One each generic rescue Greyhound (pictured)
|
deezdrama
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/29/05
Posts: 1698
Loc: Central Illinois
|
|
thanks for the suggestion guys!! keep em coming....
At first I thought about a 120 eon - they look great!!!
but ive read a few reports about some of them have great optics and some only so-so, So ive decided to try and stick with a top quality source such as tak ect. so i know for sure to get a good specimin.
Hey Luigi- how do you like your 17.5" discovery?
I was thinking of getting one of these soon as well.
--------------------
Meade 12" LX200GPS / Moonlite Focuser--> Retired Dr. Clay Sherrod's Arkansas Sky Observatory - Sky Patrol Telescope
|
deezdrama
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/29/05
Posts: 1698
Loc: Central Illinois
|
|
Wow!!!
I just checked out Skywatchers usa site- I had no idea the 120 ed was so inexpensive! I thought it would be over 2k
Thats a great deal, but i wonder how it would compare next to a 4" tak of known quality? Would the extra size/mount requirements be worth it?
--------------------
Meade 12" LX200GPS / Moonlite Focuser--> Retired Dr. Clay Sherrod's Arkansas Sky Observatory - Sky Patrol Telescope
|
cuzimthedad
Just Be Cuz
Reged: 04/09/06
Posts: 2849
Loc: Sonoma, Northern California
|
|
FWIW, I would personally stick with a 4". The aperture jump from 4" to 5" is not all that much as opposed to the jump from 4" to 6" and you are looking for grabngo portability. A 4" short tube refractor IMHO fit's that bill better than a 5".
--------------------
Dan
20" Obsession (Freedom I...aka cuzimthescope)
TV102 (Star Dagger)
Megrez 80SD
Antares 1529 on LXD75 Mount (Phoenix II)
Bushnell 7X50 Binoc
Zhumell 20X80 Astro-binocs
EPs: TV 2.5, 5, 7, 9, T6s, 17 & 22 T4s, 31T5, 13E, 8E.
TV Plossls 8, 11, 15, 20, 25, 32, 40mm
The Off Fisher Lane Irregulars
|
Ennis
super member
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 162
|
|
Buy a 120ED through Company Seven, and they will guarantee that you get a good one.
www.companyseven.com
They sell Orion scopes (same Synta scopes as Skywatcher) and test each one mechanically and optically before they ship it to the buyer. Give them a call and see.
Ennis
Quote:
Wow!!!
I just checked out Skywatchers usa site- I had no idea the 120 ed was so inexpensive! I thought it would be over 2k
Thats a great deal, but i wonder how it would compare next to a 4" tak of known quality? Would the extra size/mount requirements be worth it?
|
lmgtz_doc
member
Reged: 01/29/07
Posts: 16
Loc: mexico city
|
|
I would tell you that if do not need a airline portable telescope , the best you can find is the TSA 102 Supe apo, it is very sharp, no color and has excellent contrast, fit and finish is firt rate and start test is perfect, very difficult to detect first difracction ring because it has a 99 strehl ratio. I f you need a airline portable telescope the best option will be the APM 105 superapo f/6 that its shorter length with dew shield removed and feather touch focuser collapsed is abouth 16 inches.
I am planning to sell my TSA 102 that is one month old because I have now a FSQ 106 ED that is less than one week old, just tell me.....price would be around 2200 us dlls plus a shipping. I think I will post an add today on cloudy nights classifieds.
I hope this can be helpful for you
Luis Gtz....Mexico city.
|
Luigi
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2360
Loc: Massachusetts
|
|
I'm aware of no negative reports on the EON120 except for one on Astromart. Get one from Orion and you can send it back no questions asked if it doesn't meet your expectations. I assume the SW pro would equal it in optical quality.
--------------------
17.5" f/5 Discovery Truss
IM715 7" f/15 MCT, Eon-120ED
Lunt 60mm Ha on a Nexstar mount.
CG5A coffee grinder, Orion Skyview Alt-AZ
35,19,15 Pans.9 Nag. Meade 24.5 4kSWA, 4.7 5kUWA.
BO-TMB 7mm planetary. Edge-on 3mm.
Zeiss Diascope 85
Zeiss, Leica, Canon IS, Fujinon, Nikon binos
One each generic rescue Greyhound (pictured)
|
Rick
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 2626
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
|
|
The Taks mentioned so far and certainly the EON120 will be too heavy/long for a Portamount. You should probably consider the Sky90 or other short focal length scope.
Cheers,
Rick
--------------------
www.japanastro.com
|
JoeBftsplk
super member
Reged: 09/26/07
Posts: 157
Loc: North of the Fingerlakes-NY
|
|
I agree, Rick, the Porta Mount isn't enough for a TV102 or FS102. It's perfect with the TV76 and would probably be OK with the larger FS78 or TV85; but, IMHO, it's not worth trying a TV102 on that mount. Sky 90 should be good, though.
Bob
--------------------
TV76,FS78,TV102,ETX125,C6,8" Dob; PortaMount,M4,2-SVPs,CG5,GM8
Edited by JoeBftsplk (10/05/08 09:09 PM)
|
skyjim
sage
Reged: 01/13/07
Posts: 248
Loc: Long Island, NY
|
|
Hi Luigi, there is another reveiw on AM that compares the Orion 120Ed to a Astro Tech at127triplet and he does compare it to other OTA's such as the FS128 Tak. The Orion faired real well and its an in depth report from someone who know optics allot better than the first reveiwer did. Either the EON 120Ed or the the new Skywatcher 120ED Pro would be two nice ota's that with a budget of $2500 leaves some money left over for some good ep's. I myself just ordered the SW 120ED Pro last week so will let you all know. I also talked with another Cn member who has one and is setting it up for imaging. Ther have been many posts here in the refractor forum that other members have been doing imaging with excellent result. Also check out Andy'd shot glass site as well.
Jim
--------------------
Skywatcher 120ED Pro
Celestron C8 OTA
Astro Tech AT80 W/WO APO Upgrade WO/TMB Objective
TV Naglers T6-9&13mm/2.5X powermate
TMB planetaries 3.2,5&6mm
Hyperion 17&8-24mm Zoom
TV Panoptic 22mm
WO Swan 33mm
GSO 2"ED barlow
Canon XSI
|
deezdrama
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/29/05
Posts: 1698
Loc: Central Illinois
|
|
the portamount was just an idea of mine- not a mount i own- I can up to a beefier mount but want to stay with a 4-5" refractor, ive always read excellent things about the tv101 and the widefield sounds great- but am confused over the differences of the various models, the sw pro 120ed would be on its way here if i new it would be on par with a tak or TV ect.
--------------------
Meade 12" LX200GPS / Moonlite Focuser--> Retired Dr. Clay Sherrod's Arkansas Sky Observatory - Sky Patrol Telescope
|
Rick
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 2626
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
|
|
Well heck then Deez, buy my Vixen FL102S Fluorite doublet and get what many think is one of the best 4" APO doublets made! 
cheers,
Rick
--------------------
www.japanastro.com
|
skyjim
sage
Reged: 01/13/07
Posts: 248
Loc: Long Island, NY
|
|
Hi Deez, hey I aam not saying that the 120Ed Pro or Eon 120Ed is a tak or a TV but many of the reveiws that I have seen on the net do slight comparo's to scopes like a AP130,FS128,TV127 and in most of these in the reveiwers words they seem to feel that the optics are 85 to 90% of the performance of scopes costing 2 to 3 times as much. The 120 does a better job on deep sky objects than a 102 and the planetary detail and contrast on the higher end scope will push the envelope to give you a slight edge but at these time that you are going to notice these improvement will be when seeing is excellent. No scope is going to make the object look better when seeing is poor, nada. I have aan Intes Micro M603 with lab certified optics of 1/8th wave aand when seeing is bad its better to go with a smaller scope or lower power ep's. There have been nights when I have had my M603 next to a TV NP127 and there will be no differece in the images on both scopes except the FOV cause the 603 is a F10, its also a MCT which most refractor guys dont really care for but its one of the few optical systems that give refractors a run for there money. The cool down time is longer but even with a good 102ED scope your looking at a half hour before tube curents and the lens cold soaks well enough for good images. Good luck on whichever scope you buy and maybe a vistit to a astro clubs star party might be in order so maybe you could look threw a few different scopes before you buy.
Jim
--------------------
Skywatcher 120ED Pro
Celestron C8 OTA
Astro Tech AT80 W/WO APO Upgrade WO/TMB Objective
TV Naglers T6-9&13mm/2.5X powermate
TMB planetaries 3.2,5&6mm
Hyperion 17&8-24mm Zoom
TV Panoptic 22mm
WO Swan 33mm
GSO 2"ED barlow
Canon XSI
|
drshr
sage
Reged: 06/09/08
Posts: 209
Loc: Australia
|
|
I agree with Jim. If on a budget the 120ED is excellent. If you want the best go 5" Tak or AP. The tak FS128 is a doublet so that would get my vote.
--------------------
Doc
14" F5 DOB.
6" f5 Achro.
TMB/APM 105mm F6.2 CF APO.
"In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe"
|
Scott Rose
super member
Reged: 04/20/08
Posts: 104
Loc: beachwood ohio
|
|
Ioptron Mini Tower is another option. I just purchased a Tak 102mm with this mount and it is very portable, easy to set up, and very easy to use. I got my set up at woodland hills and they were very helpful.
|
skyjim
sage
Reged: 01/13/07
Posts: 248
Loc: Long Island, NY
|
|
There's a nice Tak 102 for sale on the classifieds section here on CN, think there asking $2200 for it and its only a few months old. If you want a tak thats a good deal.
--------------------
Skywatcher 120ED Pro
Celestron C8 OTA
Astro Tech AT80 W/WO APO Upgrade WO/TMB Objective
TV Naglers T6-9&13mm/2.5X powermate
TMB planetaries 3.2,5&6mm
Hyperion 17&8-24mm Zoom
TV Panoptic 22mm
WO Swan 33mm
GSO 2"ED barlow
Canon XSI
|
Erik Bakker
member
Reged: 08/10/06
Posts: 147
Loc: Haren, The Netherlands, Europe
|
|
Go for a 4". Only a light and compact 4" on alt-az is grab and go. My AP 130 f/6 was not, nor is my 102 f/8.8 fluorite on an equatorial. 102 on alt-az is the upper limit for me with grab and go. Genesis would be fine. My own favourite is my 70 f/8 fluorite on Gitzo tripod with Manfrotto 501 video head. Set up is measured in seconds! And it is so sharp and bright that it easily makes me forget about my 102 on most nights!
CS,
Erik
--------------------
Visual astronomer, main instruments:
Fully mounted Questar 7 P-BB
Celestron FL 55S fluorite
Vixen FL 70S fluorite
Celestron FL 102S fluorite
Set of Zeiss, TeleVue and Brandon eyepieces
Zeiss 7x50 Marine B/GA
Zeiss TM german equatorial
Gitzo 224 with Manfrotto 501 fluid head
Unitron alt-az mount
|
deezdrama
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/29/05
Posts: 1698
Loc: Central Illinois
|
|
the basic tally sofar is...
tak102 - 2 votes
televue- 2 votes
and 3 votes for the 120ed
I guess "grab and go" isnt a necesity
I have a pier i can mount in the backyard and leave a cg-5 on it.
I do like the idea of having the extra aperture with the 120ed and saving money to boot,but am scared to sacrifice quality. Im pretty much on the fence between the eon120 and either a tak102 or a 4" tv. would it be a safe bet that an eon 120ed will give "as pleasing" or "more pleasing" views than a 4" tak or tv? Ive used many different scopes just not many refractors and want to make the right decision- im tired of buying and selling scopes- and need a gem to keep for life
--------------------
Meade 12" LX200GPS / Moonlite Focuser--> Retired Dr. Clay Sherrod's Arkansas Sky Observatory - Sky Patrol Telescope
|
skyjim
sage
Reged: 01/13/07
Posts: 248
Loc: Long Island, NY
|
|
Hi Deez, I just ordered a Skywatcher 120ED Pro from there USA sales office, should have the scope maybe by the weekend if big brown is on time. I looked at the eon120 but went with the SW instead cause its the same lens and its 11.4 pounds for the ota compared to 14.5 with the eon ota. It comes with the hard carry case,8X50RA finder,2" crayford 2 speed focuser,2" dielectric diagonal,rings,dovetail bar and two ep's for $1495 plus shipping. The Eon 120ed is bare bones but it does have a rotatable focuser and a sliding dew shield plus hard case. The EON is a slick looking scope but they both use schoot glass for the crown (front element) and FPL-53 for the Ed flint element so optics should be the same. I know many years ago when they first brought the 6" Clestron achro's out plus the SW150's they went threw some growing pains but they have come a long way in producing better optics in the past few years. I'm looking at this ota as almost a grab n go ota but with enough size to be good for all around use. They do offer a decent return policy like orion does and if there ar problems with the scope they seem willing to work with you on getting problems resolved properly. I'll let you know how it does when I get it set up and I'll compare it to my M603, that should be a good test for the scope.
Jim
--------------------
Skywatcher 120ED Pro
Celestron C8 OTA
Astro Tech AT80 W/WO APO Upgrade WO/TMB Objective
TV Naglers T6-9&13mm/2.5X powermate
TMB planetaries 3.2,5&6mm
Hyperion 17&8-24mm Zoom
TV Panoptic 22mm
WO Swan 33mm
GSO 2"ED barlow
Canon XSI
|
KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Posts: 7660
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.1646Meters
|
|
Think hard about "grab and go" not being a necessity. Don't guess at it,be sure of what you wan't to do. A 5 inch scope suitably mounted doesn't fit the definition IMO. A long tubed 4 inch scope mounted on your CG5 is pushing that definition as well,at least for my useage. I agree with the assessment that the Portamount is not near enough mount,as even an AT102ED sized scope will strenuously test it's capabilities.
Absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a high quality refractor that has some decent aperture. Choose well and good luck.
--------------------
Kenny
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." Ben Franklin
|
kwkee
sage
Reged: 08/17/03
Posts: 258
Loc: Far East
|
|
Quote:
the basic tally sofar is...
tak102 - 2 votes
televue- 2 votes
and 3 votes for the 120ed
I guess "grab and go" isnt a necesity
I have a pier i can mount in the backyard and leave a cg-5 on it.
I do like the idea of having the extra aperture with the 120ed and saving money to boot,but am scared to sacrifice quality. Im pretty much on the fence between the eon120 and either a tak102 or a 4" tv. would it be a safe bet that an eon 120ed will give "as pleasing" or "more pleasing" views than a 4" tak or tv? Ive used many different scopes just not many refractors and want to make the right decision- im tired of buying and selling scopes- and need a gem to keep for life
No one mention AP 130 Gran Turismo? That is really grab and go since you can break it into 3 pieces easily.
|
deezdrama
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/29/05
Posts: 1698
Loc: Central Illinois
|
|
Well - this changes things a bit....
but i got an email today from someone who possibly wants to trade there 6" AP for my SCT, hmmmm
--------------------
Meade 12" LX200GPS / Moonlite Focuser--> Retired Dr. Clay Sherrod's Arkansas Sky Observatory - Sky Patrol Telescope
|
RAKing
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 907
Loc: Clouds-ville, Virginia
|
|
Everyone's definition of Grab and Go is as different as everyone's definition of "acceptable image", IMHO. 
For me, Grab and Go is my TV-102 on a lightweight GM-8 equatorial. One Casady counterweight, a lightweight Li-po battery, and I'm good for the whole night.
I went to a star party last week and was allowed to look through some very nice scopes (AP 130, TEC 140, TMB 130). The images were very nice, but not that much better than the images through my little 4 inch apo. Yes, I am on the AP waiting list for a 130 and will definitely buy it when they call - but I can rest easy knowing I've got a great scope sitting right here, right now. 
As always, your eyes, your skies, and YMMV.
Ron
--------------------
Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.
Orion XT12i / Moonlite CR2 "Time Machine"
"Hi Def" TV-102 Apo
Three Ethos and a 31T5 "The Heavenly Quartet"
GM-8 GEM / A-P Portable Pier
|
deezdrama
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/29/05
Posts: 1698
Loc: Central Illinois
|
|
well the AP in question is a 6" f8 which i believe are ap,s vintage refractors , im sure its a nice scope but read they tend to show more color than the newer offerings- plus a six inch refractor is huge- too big for me right now- so im back to choosing a 4" apo or the 120ed variants. Must sell my 12" sct first before funding a refractor.
--------------------
Meade 12" LX200GPS / Moonlite Focuser--> Retired Dr. Clay Sherrod's Arkansas Sky Observatory - Sky Patrol Telescope
|
Wehkoja
sage
Reged: 05/06/07
Posts: 229
Loc: Finland
|
|
http://www.optcorp.com/pdf/Events/SCAE/2007/Photos/DemoDay/18Takahashi.jpg
That looks quite G&G APO! but is this the FSQ 106 or bigger?
--------------------
Lomo 80/480 in Megrez tube
Ethos 13mm
Powermate 2" 2x
Powermate 4x
Heq5pro
WO 2" Dielectric (Carbon)
TV 2" Dielectric Everbrite
Nikon Monarch 8.5x56
|
skyjim
sage
Reged: 01/13/07
Posts: 248
Loc: Long Island, NY
|
|
Hi Deez, got the SW120ED Pro, I like the scope and have done a few comaprisons with my M603 which is a Intes Micro 6" MCT. I must say that the 120ED did a good showing for itself the other night, the M603 has optical certification of 1/8th wave and even though the other night was not the best of nights the 120ED was nip and tuck with it. On planetary,lunar and doubles both scopes were in a dead heat. The only thing I would say that the F7.5 refractor was real nice on over the F10 M603 was the double cluster, just a tad better or lets say more pleasing. Both scope are about 12 pounds, the M603 is far more portable but the cool down time on the 120Ed was 45min to the M603s 60min. I did have to adjust the focuser on the SW120Ed Pro out of the box but thats gonna be with almost any scope, I'm just a little fussy there. For what I paid for the 120ED I could place a moonlite of FT focuser on it if I really wanted to but find the stock 2 speed focuser does well enough, real nice fine focusing, real smooth.
As far as going with the older 6" AP thats up to you, its much larger, needs something bigger than a CG5 mount to be steady on( I have a CG5 and CG5GoTo for both my scopes, really steady performance ). The only AP I've looked threw was a AP155EDT nad that was a great scope and it was alongside a Tak FS152 both were killer scopes. I have not had my SW120ED Pro out at any star parties yet so cannot say were it would perform against those big boys but the M603 has been there with an excellent 3rd place finish on a good night. Its your call and I hope you are happy with whatever you buy, good luck.
Jim
--------------------
Skywatcher 120ED Pro
Celestron C8 OTA
Astro Tech AT80 W/WO APO Upgrade WO/TMB Objective
TV Naglers T6-9&13mm/2.5X powermate
TMB planetaries 3.2,5&6mm
Hyperion 17&8-24mm Zoom
TV Panoptic 22mm
WO Swan 33mm
GSO 2"ED barlow
Canon XSI
|
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
[Re: