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Mickey
member
Reged: 09/18/09
Posts: 24
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First I'd like to say, "even though I've owned three telescopes and have viewed the skies off and on over the years, I consider myself a beginner astronomer". I have no starting point, no real knowledge about how best to ask this question other than I've posted below.
I picked up a book called "The Backyard Astronomer's Guide" a while back and have read through about half of if so far. I've also been researching websites like Cloudy Nights, reading blogs, reviews, etc. and taking in so much new information, that it makes me dizzy with so many questions and indecision.
What I have learned from all my research is that as a beginner... I should not rush out and buy a telescope. I intend to take that advice, because I want the right telescope for what I wish to do and make the best choice that's within my budget.
So, I've been researching different kinds of telescopes for the past four months. I started out looking into various "8 inch Schmidt-Cassegrains", then I got real interested in "8 inch Dobsonians" and figured it would be a more cost effective solution. But I would like to eventually do some Astrophotography as well, so I started reading more about "Schmidt-Cassegrains". Then sturdy and solid go-to mounts came into the factor... and the price started increasing more and more. I don't want to drop good money into a mount that I will out grow, but the cost began to exceed the budget I've set for my first real telescope, so it was back to the "Dobsonians".
As I continued my reading on "Schmidt-Cassegrains and Dobsonians", I found there where other things that concerned me, like the weight, would they be easy to setup, would I get tired of hauling them in and out of the house.
Eventually all my research lead me to Refractors and after a lot of thought on this I've finally decided that's almost certainly the direction I'll be going in for my future telescope purchase, because from what I've read about Refractors I'll get the best optic quality, with portability and still be able to stay somewhat close to my budget of $2,800.00
The weight of the Refractors I've been looking at along make them vary desirable and photography I've seen on various websites taken with some of the refractors I've read about look very nice.
What I'm interested in achieving with the telescope I get is first and foremost visual observation of planets, star clusters and nebulas. I'd also like have a scope that is capable of astrophotography as well. After some good advice that keeps true to why I enjoy this hobby, astrophotography is no longer going to factor into my choice of telescopes.
Here are a few Refractors that I've been reading about and really like what I've learned about them so far.
TMB-92 Signature Series
STELLARVUE SV90 APO TRIPLET
Astronomy Technologies AT102ED
To start out with I intend to get a regular (non-computerized) mount. This would allow me to get a decent telescope with an affordable yet good mount to start viewing. Then I could start saving money to purchase a solid goTo mount in the future that I could use for a lifetime and not out grow.
So with all that said I'll get to the point...
Can anyone offer up some Refractor recommendations that hit on the factors listed below, so I can get a good starting point for deeper research into refractors. There's so many to chose from and I figured instead of spending a couple of months just learning about where to start my research... instead I'd ask Refractor owners, "what refractors they recommend, that meets the factors listed below" to help guide me on the right path.
• Visual observation of planets, star clusters and nebulas
• Somewhat compact
• Not too heavy
• Great optics
• Portable and easy to setup
• Feather Focusing
• Fun to use
• Budget of $2,800.00
Also recommendations on a good solid non-computerized mount I could start out with that would be helpful too.
Thanks,
Mickey
Edited by Mickey (10/24/09 03:06 PM)
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Kal
sage
Reged: 07/31/06
Posts: 201
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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There will be a million different opinions on the scopes that you can get, but I will just mention mounts. For around the $1500 mark, you can get a full goto mount which will carry 40lb which for many people will be all that they will need for astrophotography. Mounts like the Celestron CGEM, or Atlas EQ-G fall into this category. This will still leave $1300 for optics.
-------------------- CG-11 • 130mm f6.3 StarFire EDF Gran Turismo • SV90TBV • ETX90EC • 25x100 BINOCULARS • Toucam 840K hacked to a 900NC • DSI Pro
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Arctic_Eddie
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/30/07
Posts: 610
Loc: St. Petersburg, FL
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I just ordered an AT80EDTA and will use it on a Nexstar 6SE mount. Later it will sit on a CG-5GT.
-------------------- The shortest distance between one point is an infinitely small circle.
73's de KF4JU
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Tamiji Homma
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/24/07
Posts: 1092
Loc: California, USA
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Hi Mickey,
Welcome to CN.
I wanted to recommend TMB 92SS if I saw your post a few days ago. Astronomics had $1,599 like-new TMB 92SS sale a few days ago. I just checked. It looked sold out. If I were in the market of scope of your criteria, I would have snapped that one in a heartbeat 
I know you would like to use "scope" for multiple duties (visual astronomy, AP, terrestrial view/photography, too?), wide range of targets, grab-n-go, with goto/alt-az mount etc... looking for almost-perfect-setup. Interestingly, your observation location (dark site or light polluted, seeing), observing habits, a day job workload, family duties, etc they affect what actually you use, enjoy and have most fun out of it in big way.
Every parameter has very different weight (priority) depending on you, time, weather, ... It is a very complex function 
You haven't mentioned about eyepieces. Eyepiece can be a big expense in the long run. Scope (mainly f ratio) affects quite a bit on what you see out of eyepiece. Faster scope (low f ratio) generally demands higher quality (more expensive in a sense) eyepiece, specially if you like wide view. Going higher magnification, it is exceedingly difficult with faster scope, too. Likely you need Barlow lens, etc.
I guess I am not really helping you. It's just that I am suggesting that you have more parameters to consider deciding what scope you go with, if ultimate purpose buying a scope is "actually observing" and having fun doing so.
Having said all this, if I were you, I would go with TMB 92SS out of your three choices. Again, you would need to allocate good chunk of budget for eyepieces, too.
Good luck in your search.
Tammy
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Ziggy943
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/11/06
Posts: 1522
Loc: Utah
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It sounds like budget contraints are going to limit your choices. Your first scope doesn't have to be your last scope. You don't have to have the Cadillac right out the chute. Pick a scope that will get you started in one area, the area you first want to explore.
Photograhpy is going to be your most expensive option. Maybe put that off for a little while. Pick what is most important to you now and go in that direction.
-------------------- May your skies always be clear,
Ziggy
www.slas.us
4" Mak
#1, 160mm F8 TEC (born 1-18-2007, 27 lbs, 45.5" long), on AP900
6" F17.5 (D&G lens) (first light 6-7-2008)
9" F/14.8 Alvan Clark (1915), on Byers 812
14.25 F/5.5 Newt in a roll off observatory
Others, that have come and gone
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nyc_nurse
sage
Reged: 07/29/09
Posts: 254
Loc: nyc
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Hi Mickey and welcome! I would suggest you price things out carefully as ancillary cost can add significantly to top out your budget. Here's an example: AT102ED - $1,200 (free-shipping) Celestron CG5-GT - $575 Dovetail plate - $70 AT Dielectric 2-inch diagonal - $120 AT Titan II 35mm EP - $160 Meade 5000 Ultra wide 14mm - $160 TMB Planetary 9mm - $60 TMB Planetary 5mm - $60 Subtotal - $2,405
That leaves you about $400. I would suggest you not spend your entire budget allowance at one time since you'll figure out things you'll need once you use your telescope for a few sessions. Things like anti-vibration pads ($44-$60), observing chair ($20 to $170), star charts ($15-$150), red light, and more books, ect.
Besides the telescope and mount choice - I think EP selection is the hardest when starting out. So many options yet often little availability to try things out firsthand. I would recommend you buy from a place with a good return/exchange policy, even if it ends up costing a few extra dollars (Orion Telescope has one of the best). In any case leave yourself some wiggle room with your budget and good luck with your choice!
-------------------- Sam P.
www.agirlandaguy.blogspot.com
Pentax 7X50
TV-102 APO w/ (Starbeam - on backorder )
Ash Gibraltar w/ SkyTour DSC
NZ3-6, N9T6, N13T6
TV 20 Plossl
Pan 24, 35
Pentax XW10, XW14
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starrancher
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 613
Loc: Northern Arizona
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Ziggy has a real good point . I myself , & not to discourage anyone from the pursuit of it , have decided that I will never get into the photographic aspect of the hobby . There is a huge learning curve involved in it , & it can be very expensive to achieve the results you see in magazines , books & some of the very fine examples posted by members here . Years of experience & trial & error go into these ultimately fine astrophotos .
The hobby to me is the serenity under the canopy of the night sky & the adventure of seeing the various objects with my own eye through the eyepiece as there is nothing quite like seeing it live with your own eye . In that developing your art of looking as with time & experience there you will learn to see more & more . To me this is a nice relaxing hobby & a release from the stresses of day to day life , but to each his own . All I'm trying to say , I guess , is don't rush into things & this idea may be something to ponder .
Dave
-------------------- LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff
Fort Rock , Az .
Edited by starrancher (10/24/09 11:30 AM)
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Ennis
sage
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 328
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You wrote: "What I'm interested in achieving with the telescope I get is first and foremost visual observation of planets, star clusters and nebulas. I'd also like have a scope that is capable of astrophotography as well."
My answer: "Get a Sky-Watcher 120ED for $1495. Then get a mount, probably an Orion Sky-View Pro or Sirius. The 120ED will have enough oomph and quality to keep you satisfied for a while. A 100mm refractor is, for most observers, just too small to be their only telescope."
I should add: "Astro-imaging is an expensive and demanding pursuit."
My advice is free and worth every penny.
Ennis
Edited by Ennis (10/24/09 01:52 PM)
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lightfever
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 09/27/04
Posts: 1279
Loc: Macomb Michigan
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IMHO trying to do everything with one scope is a mistake.
You can get an 8" newt on an Atlas style mount and something like the 80mm EON for imaging and be within your budget. If you want to do visual observing of more than just the brightest nebula 3 or 4 inches of aperture is not enough unless your skies are inky black.
The 80mm also makes a great terrestrial scope. Two scopes just gives more options. Just my
-------------------- Mark
Tasco 15-TE 76mm
Sky Watcher 80mm ED
AT-111 Triplet
XT8i (with Woden re-figured mirror)
Discovery 12.5" f/5 Premium DHQ (PDHQ Split-tube Dobsonian)
12.5" f/6.3 Dob (Underconstruction)
Celestron CG-5GT EQ Mount
Celestron C4 EQ Mount
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, but learning to dance in the rain" unknown
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nyc_nurse
sage
Reged: 07/29/09
Posts: 254
Loc: nyc
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Quote:
A 100mm refractor is just too small to be one's only telescope.
As one of those poor unfortunate souls with only 102mm of aperture as their only telescope I would have to respectfully disagree. I don't think there is any arbitrary aperture cutoff - really depends on each person, their viewing conditions and intended targets. I for one am truly pleased with 102mm because I can see a cornucopia of objects, including difficult DSO's - I'm picking off the Herschel 400 by the dozens every observing session. With that said, I'm going to be on a short list for an Obsession 25 when I get access to skies to truly appreciate such aperture.
-------------------- Sam P.
www.agirlandaguy.blogspot.com
Pentax 7X50
TV-102 APO w/ (Starbeam - on backorder )
Ash Gibraltar w/ SkyTour DSC
NZ3-6, N9T6, N13T6
TV 20 Plossl
Pan 24, 35
Pentax XW10, XW14
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watcher
sage
Reged: 11/21/07
Posts: 406
Loc: NJ
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For AP, the TMB 92SS is the best option. I don't know if it's best for visual though. I have a TMB 80SS, and the optics are superb, but for planets, I like to go to about 200x, and the image gets a little dim in an 80mm scope. At those magnifications, the image is plenty bright in my 120mm scope, but I can't say how much over 80mm you need to go before the image brightness becomes acceptable. In general, though, they usually say that planetary viewing begins at 4 inches. If others can tell you that a 90mm scope gives acceptable visual performance, then the 92SS is the clear winner. If you need to go to 102mm, I believe the AT 102ED would still be a very workable AP scope.
As far as mounts go, there are a few ways you can go within your budget. The lightest, most accurate out of the box, affordable mount is the Vixen GP2. It can handle any of the scopes you mentioned for both visual and AP. They go for about 1250.00 with dual axis control, or 1600.00 with goto. The TMB 92 light and the dual axis is within your budget. The AT 102ED will get goto right off the bat. A little heavier, and not as accurate, are the Meade LXD75, and the Celestron and Sky-Watcher CG-5 gotos. A lot less money, and many use them for good results with AP. They say for AP that the mount is the most important component, but if you found this class mount acceptable, you can add a 4" triplet to your scope choices. For example this mount with this scope. Finally, you can go with the AT 102ED and an Atlas or CGEM, and be loaded for bear. Again fairly good AP results for inexpensive mounts, but they are much less portable if that's an issue. They would however leave you room to grow. maybe an 8" SCT or RC in the future? No problem for this class mount.
Hope this helps with your decision. Joe
-------------------- (quote)"That does it! Next Big Bang, someone has got to rethink this gettin' old business!" Joe Daugert
-------------------------------------------------
1986 Celestron c-8 (retired)
Celestron Omni XLT 120
Celestron Astromaster 70 AZ
Vixen GP2 mount on Omni XLT tripod (soon to be driven by iOptron GOTO Nova)
Meade 16x50 binoculars
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SkyscraperJim
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/29/07
Posts: 537
Loc: Providence, RI
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Your budget allows for many options. May I suggest a Tele Vue TV-85 or the TV-102?
For mounts there are many options as well. I have an older model Vixen GP mount that works well.
-------------------- Jim
TMB/APM 130/780 (#185) on G11
TMB/APM/Lomo 80/600
Tele Vue Pronto (#3533) on Half Hitch
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Mickey
member
Reged: 09/18/09
Posts: 24
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Quote:
Hi Mickey,
Welcome to CN.
I wanted to recommend TMB 92SS if I saw your post a few days ago. Astronomics had $1,599 like-new TMB 92SS sale a few days ago. I just checked. It looked sold out. If I were in the market of scope of your criteria, I would have snapped that one in a heartbeat  The TMB 92SS is the refractor I've read the most about and sounds like it's what I'm looking for. I really dig the idea of have a compact telescope for ease of setup and quick viewing sessions from the driveway.
I know you would like to use "scope" for multiple duties (visual astronomy, AP, terrestrial view/photography, too?), wide range of targets, grab-n-go, with goto/alt-az mount etc... looking for almost-perfect-setup. Interestingly, your observation location (dark site or light polluted, seeing), observing habits, a day job workload, family duties, etc they affect what actually you use, enjoy and have most fun out of it in big way. Most of my viewing would take place from my driveway after the work day ends. I live on the outskirts of a large city and we certainly have light pollution, so I'll be traveling to dark sky areas to make the most out of my viewing experience as well. The best dark skies location near me are about an hour's drive. So I'm quite certain I'd be more likely to visit dark sky areas if I have a telescope that is easy to transport, doesn't weigh too much and is fun to use.
Every parameter has very different weight (priority) depending on you, time, weather, ... It is a very complex function 
You haven't mentioned about eyepieces. Eyepiece can be a big expense in the long run. Scope (mainly f ratio) affects quite a bit on what you see out of eyepiece. Faster scope (low f ratio) generally demands higher quality (more expensive in a sense) eyepiece, specially if you like wide view. Going higher magnification, it is exceedingly difficult with faster scope, too. Likely you need Barlow lens, etc. Yea, I've got to do my homework on eyepieces. I intend to set up a separate budget for eyepieces. The $2,800.00 budget I have now is to cover the purchase of the telescope and a good non-computerized mount.
I guess I am not really helping you. It's just that I am suggesting that you have more parameters to consider deciding what scope you go with, if ultimate purpose buying a scope is "actually observing" and having fun doing so.
Having said all this, if I were you, I would go with TMB 92SS out of your three choices. Again, you would need to allocate good chunk of budget for eyepieces, too.
Any tips, suggestions and recommendations are helpful. I've got a lot to learn and do not know all the questions I should ask. Thanks for the feedback, Mickey
Good luck in your search.
Tammy
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Mickey
member
Reged: 09/18/09
Posts: 24
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Quote:
It sounds like budget contraints are going to limit your choices. Your first scope doesn't have to be your last scope. You don't have to have the Cadillac right out the chute. Pick a scope that will get you started in one area, the area you first want to explore.
Photograhpy is going to be your most expensive option. Maybe put that off for a little while. Pick what is most important to you now and go in that direction.
Yea I finally had to set some limits on my budget, because the cost of what I was researching was starting to get out of hand.
I intend to use my refractor mostly for visual observation and eventually for astrophotography as well.
Astrophotography is something I'm interested in and I would certainly like to have a scope I could use that would produce nice clean detailed images. Astrophotography will be a factor in my choice of telescopes, but it is not my priority starting out with and I figure it will take me a few years to accumulate the knowledge I'll need to really enjoy astrophotography.
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Mickey
member
Reged: 09/18/09
Posts: 24
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Quote:
Ziggy has a real good point . I myself , & not to discourage anyone from the pursuit of it , have decided that I will never get into the photographic aspect of the hobby . There is a huge learning curve involved in it , & it can be very expensive to achieve the results you see in magazines , books & some of the very fine examples posted by members here . Years of experience & trial & error go into these ultimately fine astrophotos . The hobby to me is the serenity under the canopy of the night sky & the adventure of seeing the various objects with my own eye through the eyepiece as there is nothing quite like seeing it live with your own eye . In that developing your art of looking as with time & experience there you will learn to see more & more . To me this is a nice relaxing hobby & a release from the stresses of day to day life , but to each his own . All I'm trying to say , I guess , is don't rush into things & this idea may be something to ponder . Dave
Thanks Dave, you reminded me of one of the reasons I enjoy this hobby... the simplicity of just viewing.
When I first started my research for the new telescope I would purchase I was completely consumed with all the bells & whistles and astrophotography was at the top of my priorities. The more I read the more work it seemed to be, the more complicated it would make this hobby, the more expensive it was going to be. My mind is already taxed enough with my daily task at work (technology and computers) and when I'm off work the last thing I want to do is look at a computer and deal with technology. I really just want to unplug from technology and keep my life simple.
As I've learned more from my research of different types of telescope options I have to chose from, I've found myself going from a complicated feature filled telescopes that will take effort to transport, to a more simplified approach. Your comment was just what I needed to keep me on track!
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Mickey
member
Reged: 09/18/09
Posts: 24
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Quote:
You wrote: "What I'm interested in achieving with the telescope I get is first and foremost visual observation of planets, star clusters and nebulas. I'd also like have a scope that is capable of astrophotography as well."
My answer: "Get a Sky-Watcher 120ED for $1495. Then get a mount, probably an Orion Sky-View Pro or Sirius. The 120ED will have enough oomph and quality to keep you satisfied for a while. A 100mm refractor is, for most observers, just too small to be their only telescope."
I should add: "Astro-imaging is an expensive and demanding pursuit."
My advice is free and worth every penny.
Ennis
Hey Ennis, I've thrown astrophotography out the window... it's no longer a factor in my choice of scopes. I'm going to keep my hobby simple and visual. I'm going to look into the Sky-Watcher 120ED. Thanks for the advice. Mickey
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Mickey
member
Reged: 09/18/09
Posts: 24
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Thanks Joe, This is very helpful. I'm going to look into these scopes and mounts.
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Mike Holland
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/22/06
Posts: 878
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I recommend considering these two scopes: Orion 100 ED ($680), and Astro-Tech 102 ED ($1195). The first scope is of an optical performance level on par with nearly any scope on the market, and years after its introduction, is still the best buy in small refractors. It's definitely a classic.
The Astro-Tech scope may perform nearly as well, though its optics will likely be a little less sharp, and its color performance may be a little less perfect, both owing to its shorter focal ratio. What you gain with that scope is that it's shorter in size and focal length, so it's easier to mount and gives you a wider field of view for any given eyepiece. Also, it has the amazing FeatherTouch focuser, which many of us consider the best on the market today.
Both scopes are sold by companies with excellent reputations and outstanding customer service.
For eyepieces my recommendations would depend on which scope you decided on. Still, since those scopes are well under your budget, I recommend Nagler eyepieces. Those give outstanding star images from one edge of the field to the other, and though they are expensive, you'll probably like them enough to keep them for the rest of your life. They present huge fields of view compared to most eyepieces, something you'll appreciate the more you observe.
Two Naglers and a good barlow will get you far if you plan the focal lengths carefully. Add a simple alt-azimuth mount and a laser pointer to aim the scope, and you'll have something very easy to store and use. You're going to discover that ease-of-use is critical in your enjoyment of astronomy.
One more thing: do budget for an observing chair. You'll see a lot more that way because you'll be much more comfortable sitting than standing.
Mike
-------------------- NP-101/FeatherTouch/Gibraltar/Naglers and Panoptics
_______________________________________________
Optiphile [OP-teh-FILE] -noun, one who appreciates or obsesses over fine optical equipment, generally telescopes, binoculars, binoviewers, or photographic lenses.
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watcher
sage
Reged: 11/21/07
Posts: 406
Loc: NJ
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Quote:
Hey Ennis, I've thrown astrophotography out the window... it's no longer a factor in my choice of scopes. I'm going to keep my hobby simple and visual. I'm going to look into the Sky-Watcher 120ED. Thanks for the advice.
Mickey
If you're truly giving up on AP, your 2800.00 budget could get you a Celestron CPC 1100! Although the fork & tube assembly is a bit heavy at 65 lbs.,it's still fairly portable considering the wow factor the views would be. The mount is easier to set up than an EQ, and you don't have to chase the eyepiece while viewing. If that's too much scope for you, how about this. For your budget, you can get a Celestron 8SE, light, very portable, and easy to set up, and still get the Sky-Watcher mount and a Stellarvue 70mm ED if you wanted to try your hand at AP. You would still have money left over for a camera and some accessories.
Just giving you another way to approach the decision.
Joe
-------------------- (quote)"That does it! Next Big Bang, someone has got to rethink this gettin' old business!" Joe Daugert
-------------------------------------------------
1986 Celestron c-8 (retired)
Celestron Omni XLT 120
Celestron Astromaster 70 AZ
Vixen GP2 mount on Omni XLT tripod (soon to be driven by iOptron GOTO Nova)
Meade 16x50 binoculars
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carlcat
sage
   
Reged: 11/26/07
Posts: 265
Loc: Northern California
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Since you're no longer interested in AP, I would recommend two scopes, the 100ed for moon and planets and the Orion 120 for deep sky. You can pick up the 120ST second hand for around 200 smackers.
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Kal
sage
Reged: 07/31/06
Posts: 201
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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If you are not interested on AP anymore, but you still want a compact scope that is easy to set up and transport, I would suggest an 8" CAT. I love both of my APO refractors to death, but when it comes to visual, aperture always wins, and my C11 gets put up on my mount. An 8" CAT is also an easy entry point into planetary AP with a simple modified webcam for under $200 (as long as you have an existing laptop computer handy).
-------------------- CG-11 • 130mm f6.3 StarFire EDF Gran Turismo • SV90TBV • ETX90EC • 25x100 BINOCULARS • Toucam 840K hacked to a 900NC • DSI Pro
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Edwin Quiroga
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/31/08
Posts: 612
Loc: Miranda, Venezuela
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Quote:
Quote:
A 100mm refractor is just too small to be one's only telescope.
As one of those poor unfortunate souls with only 102mm of aperture as their only telescope (...)
What about me??? With only a 85mm of aperture... I had a 10-inched scope but I sold it 'cause in four months I used it only three or four times. In one ocassion I took it to very dark skies, driving for several hours. During two days in that dark site I used it only 15 minutes... A lot of clouds!
Many people here would be astonished about how many targets you can see with 3"-4" from really very dark sites (Bortle 1 and 2, in my country we have many sites in this range ). It´s easier to transport a little scope that a big one to that glorious dark site.
-------------------- TeleVue 85 w/FeatherTouch
Televue Panoptic 35
Pentax XW (3.5, 5, 7, 10, 14, 20)
Pentax XO 2.58
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Karl_Bonner_1982
sage
Reged: 05/13/09
Posts: 304
Loc: Springfield, Oregon (4.5ish ma...
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Few beginners want to spend $2500 on a scope, so I'm going to limit things to triple digit prices.
A good ED scope can be quite compact as long as the f-ratio is moderate. Size, weight and portability will rule out long-focus (f-10 or higher) achros above about 100mm aperture. If you're on a tight budget (say $350) then your best bet would be something like the Orion 90mm f/10 achro with a sturdy mount to go with. Will give good views of the moon and planets and can handle the brighter clusters and nebulae.
An ED 80 with f/7.5 optics is extremely versatile: it can do low power (down to 15x if it has a 2" focuser!) but still up to 200x. Portable, lightweight and easy to use. Color blur is a very minor issue at worst. But the limited aperture isn't great on deep sky. That's why it might be a good idea to get two refractors; perhaps an ED80 and 120ST, with the former for planets and the latter for clusters/nebulae.
If you get the 120ST complete package you'll get a complementary 90 degree diagonal and two eyepieces. If you're on a tight budget and cannot afford the ED 80, an Orion 90 is a decent substitute as long as you have a 90 deg. diagonal to replace the shoddy 45 that comes with this one. Orion 90 achros cost only $100 OTA-only when on sale, so you could just get that and the 120ST, then use the ST's mount and diagonal on the achro!
I'm eyeing the ED80 to replace my Mak because of cooldown times and focal length. I want both wide fields AND high-power for planets, and this scope is great for doing both.
==============
However, given your generous budget you'd be better off with a compact apo. Ask others for brand recommendations. I can only suggest that you stick to 100mm since anything larger in true apo form will be getting VERY expensive and portability becomes a problem.
-------------------- A lot of signatures are just there because people think they are "supposed" to have a signature.
Edited by Karl_Bonner_1982 (10/30/09 10:17 AM)
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Brian L
super member
Reged: 11/17/08
Posts: 119
Loc: The garden paradise of Pittsbu...
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There is a WO FLT-110 with the TEC optics and the 4" crayford focuser upgrade being offered here for $1750.
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3352111/page/1/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1
There is a lot of discussion about this scope in this thread:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3414539/page/1/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1
This is a STEAL for one is one of the best 4" refractors ever made. You'll never wish you had a better scope. And, you'll have enough $$ left over for a couple naglers.
-------------------- WO FLT-110 f/6.5, TEC optics
Losmandy G-11 Gemini
Meade 10" LX200 GPS/UHTC
Questar 3.5" Standard
Vixen VMC-110L
Canon 450D, unmodified
Assortment of TV Panoptic, TV Radian, Vixen LVW, and WO eyepieces
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j3ffr0
sage
Reged: 07/06/08
Posts: 424
Loc: Virginia
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The Orion premium 110 f7 ED at $999 seems to be good value. Good compromises between aperture/portability and quality/price.
This scope would probably be okay on an Astrotech Voyager mount. I use an ST120 on it all the time. I also think the other smaller scopes you are considering would do fine on an Astrotech Voyager.
-------------------- 10" Dob, 127mm Mak, 120mm f5 achro, PST
35, 24 Panoptic; 16, 13, 9, 3-6 Nagler
15, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.8 Ultrascopic
20, 15, 9, 6 Expanse
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Mickey
member
Reged: 09/18/09
Posts: 24
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Thanks for all the feedback! Lots of information to stew over and I'll probably be stewing over it for a while to come. I tend to work things over and over until I can feel very very confident that what I chose to purchase will be something I'm very happy with.
As I mentioned in my first post I've jumped from SCT, Dobs, back to SCT and then to Refractors for imaging. Then after reading a post that got me back on track, I decided to skip the idea of imaging and stick to visual observation. However - after more thought I decided I didn't want to completely rule out the idea of imaging sometime in the future.
I then started to reconsider getting an 8" SCT, with the idea that I may eventually get a Refractor and piggyback it on the SCT. That threw a wrench into my budget though, because now I had to consider a mount that could carry the payload. Then the weight and portability issues started to factor in.
So here's what I'm now mauling over... I'm considering the idea of getting a Celestron CGEM 800HD. This would give me more aperture for visual observation, a mount that is fairly portable and a package that would not exceed my budget. Then if I want to try my hand at imaging, well I'll just use the 800HD. If the time came that I felt that imaging is something I'd really like to pursue, and I felt I needed another scope for different imaging purposes, I'd get a refractor that fits the need and just mount it directly to the CGEM and skip the need to piggyback it altogether.
The idea is that this would give me more aperture for visual observation, does not rule out the idea of imaging, keeps my scope fairly portable and keeps me within my budget.
Any comments, different perspectives on my reasoning... good or bad are very welcomed. And thanks for all the suggestions and help! Mickey
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starrancher
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 613
Loc: Northern Arizona
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I have yet to see (& maybe I missed) any initial reviews on the Celestron HD . A new optical design that I may have heard a tone of some speculation about . It seems Celestron has been coming out with some innovation in its products more & more but you might want to hold up until some reviews come out . More than anything , relax & enjoy . ......BTW , ....Antares has a line of 4" long focus achromats offered in 3 different focal lengths . These are built in the tradition of the Unitron fashion . ...Pretty cool stuff ! If I had the money , I tellya what I'd do , I'd probably take a longer look at these Antares units too !
-------------------- LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff
Fort Rock , Az .
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DLB242
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/29/08
Posts: 545
Loc: Pen Argyl, PA
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Quote:
First I'd like to say, "even though I've owned three telescopes and have viewed the skies off and on over the years, I consider myself a beginner astronomer". I have no starting point, no real knowledge about how best to ask this question other than I've posted below.
I picked up a book called "The Backyard Astronomer's Guide" a while back and have read through about half of if so far. I've also been researching websites like Cloudy Nights, reading blogs, reviews, etc. and taking in so much new information, that it makes me dizzy with so many questions and indecision.
What I have learned from all my research is that as a beginner... I should not rush out and buy a telescope. I intend to take that advice, because I want the right telescope for what I wish to do and make the best choice that's within my budget.
So, I've been researching different kinds of telescopes for the past four months. I started out looking into various "8 inch Schmidt-Cassegrains", then I got real interested in "8 inch Dobsonians" and figured it would be a more cost effective solution. But I would like to eventually do some Astrophotography as well, so I started reading more about "Schmidt-Cassegrains". Then sturdy and solid go-to mounts came into the factor... and the price started increasing more and more. I don't want to drop good money into a mount that I will out grow, but the cost began to exceed the budget I've set for my first real telescope, so it was back to the "Dobsonians".
As I continued my reading on "Schmidt-Cassegrains and Dobsonians", I found there where other things that concerned me, like the weight, would they be easy to setup, would I get tired of hauling them in and out of the house.
Eventually all my research lead me to Refractors and after a lot of thought on this I've finally decided that's almost certainly the direction I'll be going in for my future telescope purchase, because from what I've read about Refractors I'll get the best optic quality, with portability and still be able to stay somewhat close to my budget of $2,800.00
The weight of the Refractors I've been looking at along make them vary desirable and photography I've seen on various websites taken with some of the refractors I've read about look very nice.
What I'm interested in achieving with the telescope I get is first and foremost visual observation of planets, star clusters and nebulas. I'd also like have a scope that is capable of astrophotography as well. After some good advice that keeps true to why I enjoy this hobby, astrophotography is no longer going to factor into my choice of telescopes.
Here are a few Refractors that I've been reading about and really like what I've learned about them so far.
TMB-92 Signature Series
STELLARVUE SV90 APO TRIPLET
Astronomy Technologies AT102ED
To start out with I intend to get a regular (non-computerized) mount. This would allow me to get a decent telescope with an affordable yet good mount to start viewing. Then I could start saving money to purchase a solid goTo mount in the future that I could use for a lifetime and not out grow.
So with all that said I'll get to the point...
Can anyone offer up some Refractor recommendations that hit on the factors listed below, so I can get a good starting point for deeper research into refractors. There's so many to chose from and I figured instead of spending a couple of months just learning about where to start my research... instead I'd ask Refractor owners, "what refractors they recommend, that meets the factors listed below" to help guide me on the right path.
• Visual observation of planets, star clusters and nebulas
• Somewhat compact
• Not too heavy
• Great optics
• Portable and easy to setup
• Feather Focusing
• Fun to use
• Budget of $2,800.00
Also recommendations on a good solid non-computerized mount I could start out with that would be helpful too.
Thanks,
Mickey
Since you are not looking to do AP I would got with the 102ED. Also look at the Stellarvue SV102ED with the Feather Touch it is only $100 more than the AT102ED and you will be getting a real Feather Touch focuser not the add on offered on the AT102ED. With the money you want to spend you can get a 102ED from either Astro Tech or Stellarvue with a goto mount. Stellarvue is selling the SV102ED with a Celestron CGEM for $2294.00 http://www.stellarvue.com/ see the box on the home page. If you add the Feather Touch a 2" diagonal and a case you come in at $2817.50. But you don't need the CGEM for visual the Celestron CG-5 ASGT or Meade LXD-75 will do quite well with either 102ED and you can use the money for some nice eyepieces.
-------------------- David B
10" f/5 DOB
6" f/8 DOB
Celestron C8
Antares 1529 6" f/6.5 MoonLite Focuser
Orion ShortTube 130mm f/5 Reflector
Stellarvue SV102BV f/8.7 LOMO Doublet APO
Stellarvue SV90T f/7 Fluorite
Synta ShortTube 80
Stellarvue SV70ED
Edited by DLB242 (10/31/09 12:52 AM)
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Brian L
super member
Reged: 11/17/08
Posts: 119
Loc: The garden paradise of Pittsbu...
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If you don't want to focus on AP, perhaps a refractor isn't the best scope for you. The statement that refractors have the best optical quality is NOT a universal truth. There are advantages to not having a central obstruction, particularly at low magnifications, but for visual work I think that you will find many other telescope designs provide excellent image quality for less $$ per inch of aperture. For visual observing, aperture is king. You can spend a LOT of money on a premium quality 4" refractor, but there is nothing magical about them (unless you have an AP or a TEC, of course). Newer SCT designs like the Meade ACF and Celestron HD as well as the Vixen cassegrain VC-200L and VMC200L provide excellent optical quality free of detectible aberrations to the visual observer. You will definitely be able to observe more objects with a large SCT or dob than you could with a premium 4" refractor. The diffraction limit of a larger scope also means that theoretically you can resolve greater detail at high power. Many would say that the best amateur scope for planetary observing is the Celestron C-11 or C-14. I don't know what the light pollution is like where you live, but a 4" refractor will not compete with a 10-12" SCT for visual observing of globular clusters and nebula. And, you can do some nice photography with these instruments.
If weight and portability are a concern, take a look at the Vixen VMC-200L or VC-200L. Otherwise, I'd look for a used C-11 or Meade ACF.
-------------------- WO FLT-110 f/6.5, TEC optics
Losmandy G-11 Gemini
Meade 10" LX200 GPS/UHTC
Questar 3.5" Standard
Vixen VMC-110L
Canon 450D, unmodified
Assortment of TV Panoptic, TV Radian, Vixen LVW, and WO eyepieces
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starrancher
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 613
Loc: Northern Arizona
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Hey Mickey ; I'm really starting to think that a Schmidt Cassigrain would be the best thing for you . They really are pretty much the best all around performer , very versatile , portable as well as a good platform for AP . No need to go big . An 8 inch will show an amazing amount of what's to be seen visually , it keeps you light & small enough that a real beefy mount isn't required if AP is desired & you would be able to stay within your budget even with the purchase of extra goodies like oculars & filter etc. that you know you're going to want .
-------------------- LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff
Fort Rock , Az .
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Tom Faller
member
   
Reged: 08/07/06
Posts: 66
Loc: Atlanta, GA, USA
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Mickey:
About five years ago, I had read my second edition of "The Backyard Astronomer's Guide" down to the glue in the spine and was still trying to make up my mind about the best scope I could buy. A big difference was that I already had two 8" Dobsonians and my budget was only $900. I chose a 5" Mak-Cass from Orion and immediately was sucked in to all-nighters by the huge improvement in optics and flexibility over my poorly-mirrored Newts-on-a-turntable. Well, five years later I've completely rebuilt one Dob, built a 12" truss Dob and have gone through two refractors. I've been to dozens of star parties and outings and have looked through a lot of good telescopes. My biggest lesson is that one scope, no matter how good, does not do everything you want. And the second lesson is that next-to-best is still pretty darn good.
You may not want to take astrophotos right now, but a cheap adapter makes your existing digital snapshot camera pretty darn good for casual pictures, and your real limits are the quality of your mount, so I'd suggest not limiting yourself to a Dob or a cheaper mount. It also makes casual observing easier, but where it really shines is when you take your scope out and show it off for others - either around your neighborhood, at parties, or as part of a club. You don't spend all of your time putting Jupiter back in they eyepiece and can relax and talk to people about your scope. Yet buying a really good mount adds enough weight that it defeats the purpose of owning a nice handy refractor - the ease of instantly setting it up where you want. I've got an 80mm refractor on a GEQ mount sitting next to the back door and an 8" Dob. The Dob is by far the lighter of the two.
But as another poster said when recommending a telescope to a beginner, optical quality and portability are great, but you really stay in astronomy because of those occasional knock-your-socks-off views that a big scope provides.
You've got a lot of room in your budget, and it's good that you're considering a wide field of choices, even if that slows the decision-making process down. My recommendation is to get a decent lighter mount with guidance and a 3" or 4" ED or semi-APO refractor, wait a few months for the thrill to wear off a little and buy some eyepieces, then get a medium to big Dob to look at all the stuff you want a better look at. Don't buy either one with too much weight or you'll spend all of your time with the other.
I'm suggesting semi-APO to start with if you're not doing serious photography. It's tough to scale back if you've got the budget for the good stuff. Go to star parties, look through scopes, see what the difference is. You can ignore my advice if the difference means a lot to you. Starting below the top level also gives you room to grow if your interests take a different direction. I built a 12" Dob last year, although I was really thinking about a 15" or 18" scope, and I'm glad I made my choice. It's about as big as I can move around and set up by myself, and it gives me plenty of small projects to add features and accessories.
My wife was sitting on the couch tonight multi-tasking - watching TV and texting to friends and one of her froends complained that a co-worker, making far less money was walking around with "Fashion-brand X" earrings and a "Fashion-brand Y" purse while she didn't own either. I reminded her that you can afford just about anything you really want, you just have to really know what it's going to cost your life.
Tom Faller
-------------------- Tom Faller
80mm StellarVue Nighthawk refractor
127mm Orion Maksutov-Cassegrain
200mm homebuilt Dobsonian with Discovery optics
10x50 Carton Adlerblick Binoculars
12" homebuilt truss Dob with Discovery optics
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Mickey
member
Reged: 09/18/09
Posts: 24
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I think I've finally settled into the idea of getting an 8" SCT and CGEM mount. That will give me some room in my budget for a nice eyepiece, and keep my options open to use the mount with a Refractor too.
The scope I've been using for the past few years is a Bushnell Voyager 4.5, just like this one:
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=908
I like it's portability, but it could definitely use an eyepiece and focuser upgrade. Some kind of finder scope would make it more fun to use as well. I'm considering the idea of purchasing a nice 20mm eyepiece for it, I'm quite certain the Bushnell Voyager would perform much better than the eyepiece that came with the scope. That would give me 20x magnification and I'd have an eyepiece I can use for the new telescope I eventually get... and get more use out of the scope I have now.
I certainly want some WOW! factor in my viewing, but I really dig the idea of keeping it simple and very portable too. I suspect that I will eventually end up with an 80 to 90mm Refractor and an altazimuth mount for casual viewing as well.
Mickey
Edited by Mickey (11/05/09 01:03 AM)
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CollinofAlabama
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 1179
Loc: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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Mickey,
Wow, you're in for a journey. I started out with a Dynascope 6" reflector back in the mid-70's in 5th grade. But, although the scope was nice, it was HUGE and heavy. I didn't like that part one bit. I learned a lot about equatorial mounts and also a bit about mirror alignment.
From about junior high till 2002, I used a K-Mart 40mm spotting scope on a simple camera tripod. Then I purchased a 60mm 2nd hand Orion. Then the Orion 90mm Mak-Cass (new), then a 130ST, then an Orion ST80, then a 127mm Mak. I've owned the 90mm EQ-2 Orion achromat, the 102mm Orion Mak, the 100mm F/6 AstroView achromat, and a Vixen 130ST. I don't own any of them anymore. Today, I own the AT80ED (used primarily on a Vixen Portamount), an Orion 100mm ED F/9 (with the 100mm F/6's old AstroView mount), and a custom 6" F/6 dob.
In all honesty, the easiest to use and best images given of the lot is the custom 6" F/6 dob. It is, however, the least portable. I didn't build it. It was designed and built by a disciple of Rick Singmaster of the famous StarMaster dobsonian series. It uses an 8" sized tube (oversized for easier cooling), and a recessed mirror to minimize scatter, so it's a bit longer than the 912mm focal length might suggest, but not a lot more so.
From a simple, low sitting chair I bought at WalMart for less than $10, without any adjustment other than moving the chair as I move to different targets in different parts of the sky. I just replaced the old rack and pinion on it with the Orion single-speed Crayford. It's a dream. The whole thing's not a big setup, but does the best job and has a relatively wide field.
Mickey, I cannot recommend an SCT. All of them that I've looked through just don't have the sharpness of a well-collimated dob or a refractor. What scope you get should at least be determined by your own habit of being a tickerer/repairman. If you like doing maintenance work (around the house, garage, etc.), then you might be okay with an SCT.
An SCT's spherical primary is something like F/2.5 until it hits the secondary. Bill Paolini has noted he felt he had to collimate his 6" SCT MORE than his 10" F/4.7 dob, and that's a lot. If this hobby really is about enjoying the skies, and not fiddling with optics, you need to consider carefully which scope you get.
F/6 and longer reflectors, refractors, and Maksutov's deal with less collimation grief. In fact, if manufactured well and treated like the delicate, precious instruments they are, refractors and Maksutovs will probably never need collimating.
One of the joys, for me, of the night sky, is to fish out the object. I personally find go-to pretty anti-climatic. You might like it, but I'd rather get them myself, thank you. Nothing quite like being with the sky, just you and your telescope. Plus, the grief of batteries not working, or some blasted computer losing it's orientation in the sky are minimized. I have a bit of that with the AstroView mount, since I have the Dec-clock, but really, it's very minor. The batteries waver before they go completely dead on this old analog device. Not a problem to operate at all.
And a wide angle AFOV is critical for finding things in the sky. I prefer lower focal ratio scopes, overall, because of this reason. My 100mm F/9 is something of an exception, but I got it used on AstroMart for a steal, and I don't have a spare $G for a new F/7 4-incher. Besides, I use the 100mm ED on my driven mount, so the narrower field is less problematic.
I once ordered an Orion 127mm Mak on the SkyView Pro mount, and I found that mount to be the antithesis of portable. In fact, I found it oppressively heavy. I'm about 5'10" or so, not a tall guy. I'm not a complete wimp, but I honestly don't want to mix weightlifting and astronomy. Astronomy for me is a hobby of enjoyment, and straining over a mount is not fun. On top of that, the Orion SkyView Pro doesn't have the ingenious leveler built into the side of the AstroView for scope balancing for alignment. It holds a much heavier scope than the AstroView, but if portability is what you're about, well, I'd avoid the SkyView Pro (aka, CG-5). Stick with the AstroView/CG-4, or an Alt-Az mount.
Honestly, I would bet your 4.25" spherical mirrored Bushnell will probably hold its own, if not better, an 80mm ED on DSOs. It won't do as well on stars, so open clusters will look better in a good refractor, but dusty, gaseous nebulae and galaxies respond more to aperture, and the 4.25" is pretty good sized in the small-refractor game.
Pay attention to weight. It's another reason I wouldn't own an 8" SCT. Besides the collimation Hades you may find yourself in, they all weigh a TON. I don't care what anyone says, they're nothing like, even my 100mm ED on the AstroView.
An 8" dob and an 80mm ED scope are sure hard to beat for visual. But if you wanted ultra-portable, I'd go with one of the F/7 102mm ED refractors (I like Stellarvue's offerings, FeatherTouch or not -- both focusers are quite good in my opinion), and a 66mm ED scope. The AT102ED would probably be a good exchange for Stellarvue, but either would be a good choice. The AstroView or CG-4 with Orion's Dec-clock would be fine for the 102mm F/7, and a Vixen Portamount with the 66mm would be the ultimate portable setup. This would complement a buddy's 12" dob if you are able to hook up with other astronomy-minded folks.
For eyepieces, the Meade 5000 series SWA or UWA's make for nice entries into widefield viewing.
In parting, dob's are oriented correctly, with the focuser at the top and out. It is just plain easier to look at targets near zenith with them. Refractors are a bit more work in this regard, and the longer the F/ratio, the more work. I also LOVE my AT80ED, with it's superwide field (almost 3 degrees in my Pan 24), light weight and easy portability. It won't show the Orion nebula nearly as well as my 6" dob, but it will frame it better in the sky. Also, not having to wait for optics to equilibriate to start viewing is a huge advantage for refractors. If you consider your time under the heavens precious and too scarce, this is yet another thing to consider. With refractors, you are pretty much ready to go as quickly as you can set it up. Smaller reflectors don't lag too far behind, but SCTs and Maks take a back seat here. They will produce bloated stars and detail-less planets until they equilibriate, and that can take over an hour, depending on the temperatures you observe in.
Good luck,
CDS
-------------------- Coelum Serendum
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Zebra24601
Postmaster
   
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 11501
Loc: San Gabriel Valley, CA 91770
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Quote:
The scope I've been using for the past few years is a Bushnell Voyager 4.5, just like this one: http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=908
I like it's portability, but it could definitely use an eyepiece and focuser upgrade. Some kind of finder scope would make it more fun to use as well. I'm considering the idea of purchasing a nice 20mm eyepiece for it, I'm quite certain the Bushnell Voyager would perform much better than the eyepiece that came with the scope. That would give me 20x magnification and I'd have an eyepiece I can use for the new telescope I eventually get... and get more use out of the scope I have now.
I certainly want some WOW! factor in my viewing, but I really dig the idea of keeping it simple and very portable too. I suspect that I will eventually end up with an 80 to 90mm Refractor and an altazimuth mount for casual viewing as well.
Mickey
I have an old silver top Celestron plossl (26mm) and it gives a nice sharp view through my little Bushnell (MUCH better than with the supplied eyepieces, which I never use). Images break down with much higher magnification, however.
Nice wide field of view and highly portable. I toss mine on top of a $30 tripod I got from Telescope Warehouse. This should take you to the page that has 'em.
I also have a Rigel Quikfinder attached to the top, which makes finding objects a breeze.
Wonderful wide field to watch M31 or M45, and enough to pick out the Veil Nebula in a dark sky. Also fun for just scanning the Milky Way.
-------------------- Zebra24601
Meade 8" SCT w/UHTC * Celestron 100ED * Celestron C11 * Celestron Firstscope 80EQ
Meade LXD55 mount * Orion Sirius goto mount
Bushnell Voyager 4.5" Compact Reflector * Barska 15x70 binoculars * Galileoscope * Really cheap Tasco spotting scope
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BKBrown
member
Reged: 08/23/09
Posts: 53
Loc: Ashburn, VA USA
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Quote:
Quote:
You wrote: "What I'm interested in achieving with the telescope I get is first and foremost visual observation of planets, star clusters and nebulas. I'd also like have a scope that is capable of astrophotography as well."
My answer: "Get a Sky-Watcher 120ED for $1495. Then get a mount, probably an Orion Sky-View Pro or Sirius. The 120ED will have enough oomph and quality to keep you satisfied for a while. A 100mm refractor is, for most observers, just too small to be their only telescope."
I should add: "Astro-imaging is an expensive and demanding pursuit."
My advice is free and worth every penny.
Ennis
Hey Ennis, I've thrown astrophotography out the window... it's no longer a factor in my choice of scopes. I'm going to keep my hobby simple and visual. I'm going to look into the Sky-Watcher 120ED. Thanks for the advice.
Mickey
I think this is an excellent idea. The first scope I picked up when I got back into astronomy was my Sky Watcher 100ED EQ5-P and I love it! Don't totally disregard the idea of GoTo either. I understand and honor those who enjoy the hunt with manual mounts but the reality of living in light-polluted urban skies makes non-goto observing significantly more difficult. By all means take the time to learn the skies and find your way around, but if you see fit to include goto in your budget you will spend more time observing the things you want to see and less time hunting for them. This can be an enormous morale booster in the early stages of the hobby. With this in mind may I put my .02 cents in the pot? Why don't you take a look at the SW 100ED EQ5-P as an entry level choice, Astronomics currently has it for $1495. I am also one of those satisfied 4 inch refractor owners who believe it could take a good while to exhaust the possibilities of this scope (like never), and even when you want to move up it will make an outstanding portable rig. I can move it in two trips, set it up, polar align and register the Synscan for goto in less than 15 minutes and the system accuracy is astonishing. The optics are also first rate for a doublet APO and I believe you would be quite pleased with them. The Crayford focuser and accessories (8x50 finder, dielectric 2" diagonal, and two middlin' OK eyepieces) are also decent. With the remaining money you could pick up several decent eyepieces (I would personally recommend the Baader Hyperion 8-24 zoom, Baader Hyperion 31 and/or 36 mm aspheric widefield, and a TV 24mm Panoptic) and a Barlow or two. The following mix: a BH 8-24 zoom, BH 36mm ASP, TV 24mm Pan, Celestron 2x Ultima Barlow, and a TV 3x Barlow would set you back about $870 and leave you over $400 for any additional tweaks or goodies. Just something to think about. Clear Skies, BB.
-------------------- Skywatcher 100ED-5QP 100mm f/9 APO, Synscan & GPS
C8N f/5 Newt, WO 66SD ZenithStar APO
Atlas EQ-G w/ Synscan & GPS
Baader Hyperion 8-24 zoom; 31mm, 36mm ASP
TV 19, 24 Pan; Nag 9T6,13T6
Siebert 1.5/2.0/2.5/3.0/3.5 Barlow,
Celestron 2x Ultima Barlow, TV 3x Barlow
Celestron 15x70 Skymaster
Edited by BKBrown (11/05/09 09:52 PM)
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Krish Mandal
member
Reged: 09/02/09
Posts: 40
Loc: Forest Hills, NY
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Mickey,
I went through the same angst that you're going through right now, just a few months ago. I researched for over 3 months. I only got my scope on Oct 2nd, and was not even able to open the box till Oct 17.
If you see my blog, I have posted about my journey, and it may help you. Also do a search on the Equipment forum for "done my homework" and you'll find the thread that had to do with my search for the right scope. You'll see a lot of good advice there too, and ways to think about your needs, from the posts of all the people who helped me.
I had the same kind of wish as you, good viewing + astrophotography. I thought I'd never get there. I started off wanting an SCT, and went all around the telescope world wishing for an RC, a nice ED, no maybe an APO, no maybe...etc., to land on an SCT again.
I still DO want a refractor. But I think you'll be very happy with a good SCT. The Celestron 9.25 seems to get great reviews.
I personally bought the Meade 8" SCT ACF with UHTC on the LXD75 mount because of free shipping and a free set of eyepieces. I paid $1500 for it, and (it figures) the price has now fallen to about $1300. It's a good scope with good optics and can be used for AP if you wanted. But that price also leaves you room to get a short focal length APO refractor to do planetary and AP. My SCT is much bigger than I anticipated, so be ready for that if you go to an 8" or bigger.
In a couple of months when I have money again, I'll buy a refractor (hopefully APO) and use it side-by-side or piggy backed to my SCT, and I'll have the best of both worlds.
I suggest you try looking into the same combo. Your budget can handle it. The advice here has been great. You probably won't go wrong with any of the scopes people have suggested. The problem is that everyone's suggestion comes from a personal point of view and personal biases, which may not match your own POV, and therefore you are left to actually look into each of their suggestions as the starting point for your own research.
Don't spend forever deciding (paralysis by analysis), but the flip side is, don't buy something just because you "must have it right now." Look for deals. Lots of people have suggested starting with used equipment, and it's not a bad idea, except that I'm such a foo-foo that I wouldn't be happy with a used piece as my "first."
Remember, and this was said by a few folks already, the scope will be the first thing you buy, you will need to save money for the accessories which will quickly build up as soon as you start using your scope and finding that you want to make your experience even better. Save some money for those things, because as soon as a couple of weeks passes and you've been acquainted with your scope, you'll want to spend money on the accessories.
Good luck, and keep posting, and report your progress. I'd like to see what you do in the end.
-------------------- Krish Mandal
EQUIPMENT LIST:
15x70 Celestron Skymaster
Meade LXD75 8-in SCT ACF
Professional photographer and astronomy neophyte
My astronomy journal at http://nightskylog.blogspot.com
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David Pavlich
Postmaster
   
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 8681
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA 30.22 X 90....
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If you've truly thrown imaging out, then I'd recommend that you cruise the used market and look for a used Orion Atlas goto and a used Celestron C8. You'd have plenty of astrobucks left over for accessories.
However, if you have that little twinge that keeps the imaging bug around, stay in the used market, get the Atlas and look for something like the Skywatcher 120 ED. Good glass and it has some aperture that may keep you from getting aperture fever for at least a couple of weeks. Ain't it fun?!
David
-------------------- Proud Member; PAS NOLA,
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research..."
A. Einstein
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Brian L
super member
Reged: 11/17/08
Posts: 119
Loc: The garden paradise of Pittsbu...
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Quote:
Mickey, I cannot recommend an SCT. All of them that I've looked through just don't have the sharpness of a well-collimated dob or a refractor. What scope you get should at least be determined by your own habit of being a tickerer/repairman. If you like doing maintenance work (around the house, garage, etc.), then you might be okay with an SCT.
An SCT's spherical primary is something like F/2.5 until it hits the secondary. Bill Paolini has noted he felt he had to collimate his 6" SCT MORE than his 10" F/4.7 dob, and that's a lot. If this hobby really is about enjoying the skies, and not fiddling with optics, you need to consider carefully which scope you get.
F/6 and longer reflectors, refractors, and Maksutov's deal with less collimation grief. In fact, if manufactured well and treated like the delicate, precious instruments they are, refractors and Maksutovs will probably never need collimating.
I don't find that my SCT needs collimating all that often, and the addition of Bob's knobs makes it fairly easy to do when it needs to be done. I have a couple of Maks and I like them for certain things- but the viewing experience between a fast APO refractor and either a SCT or Mak-Cass is totally different. If you want sweeping, wide-field views you aren't going to get those with SCT's or Maks. But, the light collecting power of a 8"+ SCT really makes a difference visually, particularly at high power. For visual observation of objects like planetary nebula and globular clusters, there's no doubt that an SCT has the advantage over a refractor.
Weight and portability are an issue. I have my G-11 parked in a corner of my garage on a ScopeBuggy. When I want to observe, I simply pull out the telescope of choice, roll the ScopeBuggy out, plug everything in and I am going inside of 10 min. When I am done, I just roll it all back in. If you have this sort of observing scenario, the size and weight of everything is less important. If you have to pack the car up to go observing, then it is a major concern.
A good compromise might be the Vixen VMC-200L on a Sphinx mount. It's technically a field-maksutov, but it is f/9.8- comparable to most SCT's. No corrector plate, so dewing is not a big problem like the SCT. Optics are excellent and views stunning. The scope and the mount are surprisingly light and very portable. The sphinx mount is very high quality and is good enough to be useful for serious AP. The Starbook interface is really a nice feature. A good friend of mine was looking to get into the hobby, and this was the scope that I eventually ended up recommending. It ended up being a very good choice.
The best scope is one that gets used often.
-------------------- WO FLT-110 f/6.5, TEC optics
Losmandy G-11 Gemini
Meade 10" LX200 GPS/UHTC
Questar 3.5" Standard
Vixen VMC-110L
Canon 450D, unmodified
Assortment of TV Panoptic, TV Radian, Vixen LVW, and WO eyepieces
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glava2005
member
Reged: 04/12/09
Posts: 89
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i`d go for SkyWatcher ED120 if i were u... there are some nice reviews of it on this forums
http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p2489_EVOSTAR-ED120---ED-APO-120-900mm---OTA---1-11-Micro.html
-------------------- Sky-Watcher ED80
TS Astro5 mount
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RonBurgundy
sage
Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 271
Loc: Philadelphia
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Quote:
Quote:
Hey Ennis, I've thrown astrophotography out the window... it's no longer a factor in my choice of scopes. I'm going to keep my hobby simple and visual. I'm going to look into the Sky-Watcher 120ED. Thanks for the advice. Mickey
If you're truly giving up on AP, your 2800.00 budget could get you a Celestron CPC 1100! Although the fork & tube assembly is a bit heavy at 65 lbs.,it's still fairly portable considering the wow factor the views would be. The mount is easier to set up than an EQ, and you don't have to chase the eyepiece while viewing. If that's too much scope for you, how about this. For your budget, you can get a Celestron 8SE, light, very portable, and easy to set up, and still get the Sky-Watcher mount and a Stellarvue 70mm ED if you wanted to try your hand at AP. You would still have money left over for a camera and some accessories.
Just giving you another way to approach the decision. Joe
I agree 100% with Joe. CPC1100 is truly amazing. Don't forget about Meade (I hear groans already)... Their new ACF is worth checking out; the ACF really does make a huge difference. I would strongly consider going to check out these different SCTs. A smaller APO can be a tremendous telescope; I would just check these out before your final decision... Throwing out AP completely changes the playing field!
-------------------- Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II
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CollinofAlabama
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 1179
Loc: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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Wow, an 11" SCT would be about the antithesis of portable. I mean, compared to a 7" APO, perhaps, but compared to any 120mm refractor and any 8" or smaller dob, I guarantee you'll get many more hours of enjoyment (due to easy setup) from these lesser scopes. In our Club we have a guy who owns a 20" F/4 and an 11" Meade SCT. From my experiences with him, I'd say the set up, though close, is probably a little less stressful for the 20". And the corresponding views? no contest!
But a 20" dob is a ludicrous notion for grab 'n go.
I have to note that this friend with the 11", as well as other friends who've owned all manner of push-to and go-to technology, all but one have had various troubles with their 'go-to' systems. The one that I do not know has had problems has one of the Orion XT10i push-to scopes. He's the only one I know of who hasn't had various problems with the technology at some point or the other. And this guy has done trouble-shooting for a different friend who did have trouble with his push-to Orion mechanism. I have a good astronomy friend who's deeply into astrophotograpy, even making some pretty respectable images, one of M33 that I have on my wall. But even he has had troubles with various computer go-to gadgetry from time to time.
The argument that go-to helps from urban skies observing has its problems, too. Although for a complete neophyte, go-to has a lot to offer in regards to suburban/urban astronomy, but for anyone who's had an undriven 4.25" reflector (or even a well used spotting scope or pair of binoculars), the benefits lessen considerably. There are only so many spectacular DSOs that still look pretty good in a small aperture scope (less than 12") under suburban/moon blighted skies. After one learns where M13, M31, M57, M27, M81/82, M8, and M3 are, well, you've not got a whole lot left, deep sky wise. I mean, you can find the objects, but they're usually not worth looking at under such conditions in anything less than truly large aperture. Go-to might be more beneficial for obscure double-stars, but again, even on a full moon night, Albireo or Eta Cassiopeiae are pretty easy for me to put in even my F/9 100mm refractor. I grant that tracking is definitely nice for public star parties and prolonged study of a particular target (especially Jupiter, Saturn, the moon, etc.)
Again, everyone is different and determining what will work for you, Mickey, is something no one here can really do. You'll have to find that out. Still, knowing what I know from my particular point of view, if I could have a go-to whiz bang 8" SCT (already huge and heavy at that size, btw) or the 120mm ED SW-cum-AZ4 as Dennis Di Cicco describes in his article on page 38 of the October Sky and Telescope, there's no contest for me. The refractor would win every time. I like the S&T summary header for the article. WHAT WE LIKE has a list of nice features, but WHAT WE DON'T LIKE has 'Nothing.' Dennis Di Cicco reviews and uses more scopes in a year than most folks will use in a lifetime. That's a pretty strong rec, people.
Oh well, I've definitely used up my 15 minutes of CN fame on this post. Good luck Mickey, and whatever you get, I hope you enjoy it.
CDS
-------------------- Coelum Serendum
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Mickey
member
Reged: 09/18/09
Posts: 24
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After a lot of thought on this, reading threads, suggestions, thinking over what I'd like to get out of my new telescope, the pros and cons... I think I've figured out a long term game plan and I'll probably be getting two telescopes and two mounts. A 90mm-120mm Refractor and an 8" SCT.
As mentioned I've got a 4.5" Bushnell Voyager that is very portable and with an eyepiece upgrade, I think I'll enjoy using it much more. I plan to keep my 4.5" Voyager scope until I get a Refractor. So first on my list is get a TeleVue 20mm Plossl. Once I have a Refractor for wide field views, I plan to give my Bushnell Voyager to my local astronomy club as a loaner for beginners.
Next I plan to get a 8" SCT on a go-to GEM with tracking. I've worked over the idea of a larger 9.25, 11" too, but I really don't want to deal with the additional weight involved. I think an 8" SCT is going to suit me just fine. I do like the idea of having a go-to to help me find and track objects in the sky. But I also want to find my way around the sky on my own as well. So I'll use the 4.5" Bushnell Voyager for a grab & go and star hopping, until I get my Refractor.
I then plan to save my money and get a 90mm-120mm Refractor with a grab and go mount.
I've also been sitting on the fence and considering reversing this approach and going with the Refractor first and let the 8" SCT follow. I'll certainly have a learning curve with an 8" SCT go-to GEM and I feel I'd get more immediate use out of a Refractor on a simple grab & go mount. But either way I decide, I've settled on the idea that I'll have at least two telescopes for two different uses. I don't mind a learning curve, nor tinkering with equipment... but I do like the idea of simplicity too. After many years of looking through the 4.5" Voyager scope I would like a telescope with more aperture, so I'm leaning towards the 8" SCT to start out with... It's a hard decision.
One thing I have settled on is that I want a german equatorial mount and not a fork mounted SCT. This would allow me to use the go-to GEM with the Refractor I decide to get.
Mickey
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RonBurgundy
sage
Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 271
Loc: Philadelphia
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Quote:
After a lot of thought on this, reading threads, suggestions, thinking over what I'd like to get out of my new telescope, the pros and cons... I think I've figured out a long term game plan and I'll probably be getting two telescopes and two mounts. A 90mm-120mm Refractor and an 8" SCT.
As mentioned I've got a 4.5" Bushnell Voyager that is very portable and with an eyepiece upgrade, I think I'll enjoy using it much more. I plan to keep my 4.5" Voyager scope until I get a Refractor. So first on my list is get a TeleVue 20mm Plossl. Once I have a Refractor for wide field views, I plan to give my Bushnell Voyager to my local astronomy club as a loaner for beginners.
Next I plan to get a 8" SCT on a go-to GEM with tracking. I've worked over the idea of a larger 9.25, 11" too, but I really don't want to deal with the additional weight involved. I think an 8" SCT is going to suit me just fine. I do like the idea of having a go-to to help me find and track objects in the sky. But I also want to find my way around the sky on my own as well. So I'll use the 4.5" Bushnell Voyager for a grab & go and star hopping, until I get my Refractor.
I then plan to save my money and get a 90mm-120mm Refractor with a grab and go mount.
I've also been sitting on the fence and considering reversing this approach and going with the Refractor first and let the 8" SCT follow. I'll certainly have a learning curve with an 8" SCT go-to GEM and I feel I'd get more immediate use out of a Refractor on a simple grab & go mount. But either way I decide, I've settled on the idea that I'll have at least two telescopes for two different uses. I don't mind a learning curve, nor tinkering with equipment... but I do like the idea of simplicity too. After many years of looking through the 4.5" Voyager scope I would like a telescope with more aperture, so I'm leaning towards the 8" SCT to start out with... It's a hard decision.
One thing I have settled on is that I want a german equatorial mount and not a fork mounted SCT. This would allow me to use the go-to GEM with the Refractor I decide to get.
Mickey
Excellent! I think that 120mm refractors and 8" SCTs are BORN to compliment each other. Or, I may just be biased...
-------------------- Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II
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starrancher
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 613
Loc: Northern Arizona
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Quote:
Excellent! I think that 120mm refractors and 8" SCTs are BORN to compliment each other. Or, I may just be biased...
Me too ! I love my 127mm Refractor & 8 inch Schmidt Newtonian combo . It's a kick setting them both up & going back & forth between them zeroed in on different objects or comparing the view between the two on the same object . Sometimes I'll let the AR5 track a Planet all night long while I buzz around the sky on DSOs' with the SN8 . Two scopes are better than one !
-------------------- LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff
Fort Rock , Az .
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CollinofAlabama
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 1179
Loc: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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Good choice, Mickey. I had the opportunity to use a lot of 8" SCT's this past weekend. They're not nearly as bulky, massive and unfriendly as the 11" SCT. I still prefer wide field viewing, and honestly wouldn't trade my 6" F/6 dob for one, but to each his own. An 90mm-plus ED refractor on an alt-az mount is just plain joy. I don't even have that, exactly. But I'm pretty happy with the telescope setup I have now (AT80ED on Portamount, Orion 100ED on AstroView and the dob). Can't complain, and my scopes compliment scopes in our club, so when I'm observing with the guys, I can bring out my 100mm ED for Jupiter if our member with the 20" shows up to blow away everyone's lesser dob.
Good luck,
CDS
-------------------- Coelum Serendum
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Doc Bob
member
Reged: 02/27/09
Posts: 40
Loc: Maryland, USA
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Hello everyone, My first scope was a CPC1100. It serves as a BIG grab and go scope which I love dearly; for some unknown reason I felt that I had to have a grab and go refractor 80mm, and then I got a 102mm f/11 refractor - I gave this one to my sweetie's dad ( dark skies! ) for when we visit!! Get the largest aperature (can't spell) you can afford (every time). There's a huge difference. Now I want a larger refractor!!!
Brain burned, Bob
-------------------- CPC1100 w/Stellarvue 2" dielectric diagonal
AstroTelescopes 80 mm f/6 w/Celestron 2" mirror diagonal
Stelarvue M1 mount
Axiom LX 10mm 1.25"; 19mm, 23mm, 31mm 2"
CELESTRON 40mm Plossl (came w/ scope) 1.25"
Meade 5000 series 14mm Plossl 1.25"
Pentax XW 7mm 1.25"
a really inexpensive 4mm 1.25"
GSO 2" Barlow 2x w/ 1.25" adaptor
To many 1.25" filters - use only 3
OIII 1.25"
Lumicon Deep Sky Filter - SCT thread
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RonBurgundy
sage
Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 271
Loc: Philadelphia
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Quote:
Quote:
Excellent! I think that 120mm refractors and 8" SCTs are BORN to compliment each other. Or, I may just be biased...
Me too ! I love my 127mm Refractor & 8 inch Schmidt Newtonian combo . It's a kick setting them both up & going back & forth between them zeroed in on different objects or comparing the view between the two on the same object . Sometimes I'll let the AR5 track a Planet all night long while I buzz around the sky on DSOs' with the SN8 . Two scopes are better than one !
It's better than sliced bread
-------------------- Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II
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