revans
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 1517
Loc: Fitchburg, MA
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First of all... I'm not a great or an experienced deep sky imager and I live in very light polluted skies. But I hear it again and again... don't touch a short tube achro for deep sky imaging... you'll be sorry.... too much chromatic aberration.... you have to get an ED scope and if you can afford it you really have to get an apo scope. Stay away from those short tube achros... you'll be sorry...
This philosophy begins to get burned into your mind after a while... but is it really true today with all of the image processing software available out there? I really thought that you can get decent color images of deep sky objects with an F5 achromat with proper, but still quick and easy post-processing. And I've done some preliminary images that seem, at least to me, to validate this. Attached are two half hour images of M27. No filters used. Camera was a Canon Rebel DSLR. The first is an unprocessed image from my Orion 120 mm F5 achro. The second is a processed version of the first.
So... I'm not claiming that I am a great imager or that this is a great image... but can anyone say that the processed image is ruined by chromatic aberration? Couldn't you imagine the processed image as having been taken with an ED scope and not an achromat.
Anyway... I hope this generates some honest discussion because I think the achromat is under rated by almost everyone... and maybe even maligned unfairly...
-------------------- Rick Evans
http://www.freewebs.com/revans_01420/
"The universe is there for us to see, but it cannot be understood without learning its language -- mathematics." Galileo Galilei
Edited by revans (10/28/09 01:45 PM)
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revans
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 1517
Loc: Fitchburg, MA
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Now here is the processed image...
PS - The cost of an Orion 120 mm F5 achromat is $320 new. The cost of a Takahashi 120 mm F7.5 apochromat is about $3750. I'm not aware of a 120 mm F5 apochromat... but they may exist...
-------------------- Rick Evans
http://www.freewebs.com/revans_01420/
"The universe is there for us to see, but it cannot be understood without learning its language -- mathematics." Galileo Galilei
Edited by revans (10/28/09 02:03 PM)
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Djarum
sage
Reged: 03/12/09
Posts: 219
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Wow. Thats awesome.
Dj
-------------------- Celestron Astromaster 130eq with a 60mm finderscope
Bushnell Legend 10x50
TMB planetary 5mm EP
Enhanced Wide Angle 6mm EP
Plossl 10mm EP
Plossl 32mm EP
Ultima 2x barlow
Baader M&SG and UHC filters.
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snart
professor emeritus
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 596
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
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All the software did was to turn purple bloated images into white bloated images. The images, however, are still bloated! When you can get pinpoint star images with that short f-ratio achro then give me a call...
-------------------- Celestron C100ED w/ Moonlite focuser
6" f/9.25 Newtonian - GEM
Meade 10" f/10 Schmidt-Cassegrain
18" f/4.5 Newtonian - Dob
4mm & 5mm TMB SMCs, 6mm, 7mm, 9mm, 12mm UO HD Orthos, 4.8mm, 7mm, 11mm, 16mm, 20mm TV Naglers, 24mm, 32mm, 40mm TV WFs, 55mm TV Plossl.
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revans
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 1517
Loc: Fitchburg, MA
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I take your snarkily expressed but very valid point to heart... but sharp images of stars should be equally sharp in an achro or an apo of similar lens quality. Assuming I focused well, then I should get equally sharp images with an achro or an apo of similar quality. The only issue I am addressing in this post is chromatic aberration and nothing more... and that is because no one yet makes an extremely high quality achromat lens at F5 that I am aware of... but at the same time I'm also not aware of a 120 mm F5 apo lens either...
-------------------- Rick Evans
http://www.freewebs.com/revans_01420/
"The universe is there for us to see, but it cannot be understood without learning its language -- mathematics." Galileo Galilei
Edited by revans (10/28/09 02:31 PM)
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Retentive
member
Reged: 02/16/08
Posts: 15
Loc: Florida
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Mr. Evans, I too own a 120ST and agree with your assessments. I dont expect my telescope to perform as an APO. That being said many times I read here that it is a total waste to buy or try to use an achro even if that is all you can afford. I applaud anyone who chooses to spend thousands of dollars for their telescope, I spent my scope money on a 350+ HP hemi jeep cherokee which I enjoy driving. I know there are people who enjoy their car even though they cant go off road or go very fast but i dont belittle them for that.
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revans
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 1517
Loc: Fitchburg, MA
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I really believe that processing advances over the years have made it possible for us to tame chromatic aberration at least in deep sky images taken with achros. But at the same time, it is also true that the optics have other aberrations that are controlled for in apos. What would be fascinating, and I think likely possible, is to have someone manufacture an F5 achromat with a high quality lens free of these other aberrations. I think the Orion 120 mm F5 lens is OK and it is fine for my visual and even my imaging needs... but imagine the possibilities if its achromat lens were made just a bit more precisely... I don't think it is the type of glass that is holding achros back... it is a need for better figuring of the lenses...
-------------------- Rick Evans
http://www.freewebs.com/revans_01420/
"The universe is there for us to see, but it cannot be understood without learning its language -- mathematics." Galileo Galilei
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imhotep
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 02/14/07
Posts: 1429
Loc: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
... but sharp images of stars should be equally sharp in an achro or an apo of similar lens quality. Assuming I focused well, then I should get equally sharp images with an achro or an apo of similar quality.
First of all, cool comparison. It's an interesting and important topic. You've got sharpness and CA seperated in your mind though, and they are very much linked under the heading of image quality. It is hard to say 'I've got pinpoint stars' when the points are surrounded by a halo of any color, don't care if its blue or white.
Realize this -- if your stars have halos around them, you're target is also not appearing as clearly and with as much detail as you could expect to get with a better corrected objective. Processing to make the halos blend in by changing their color to roughly match the stars they surround isn't correcting the real problem, it's only taking the spotlight off of it somewhat.
BUT...you may be addressing a more general and subjectively phrased criticism that has been launched against achromats, that being "they can't take good astrophotos" or something to that affect. As far as that goes, I think you've demonstrated otherwise. That's a neat image and if it brings pleasure to yourself and others who view it, then that's awesome. BUT, you do have a fair amount of CA in there regardless of what appearance it takes on after processing. People talk about processing OUT the CA which is sort of possible, but you can't process IN the detail you would get with a well corrected apo.
-------------------- Curt
8" F5 Newtonian Astrograph
Orion 80ED CUSTOM
Edmund Optics 4.25" 'Palomar' Newtonian, 1968 vintage
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imhotep
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 02/14/07
Posts: 1429
Loc: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
That being said many times I read here that it is a total waste to buy or try to use an achro even if that is all you can afford.
Yeah I'm with you and the OP on this, and I don't agree with that sentiment. My 80ED has made me very happy for the low amount of CA this scope seems to produce. The images I've captured with it are certainly worth the $350 I paid for the OTA. But with that said, I know it's not an apo and I know the images would be better if it was.
-------------------- Curt
8" F5 Newtonian Astrograph
Orion 80ED CUSTOM
Edmund Optics 4.25" 'Palomar' Newtonian, 1968 vintage
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starrancher
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 620
Loc: Northern Arizona
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Quote:
Mr. Evans, I too own a 120ST and agree with your assessments. I dont expect my telescope to perform as an APO. That being said many times I read here that it is a total waste to buy or try to use an achro even if that is all you can afford. I applaud anyone who chooses to spend thousands of dollars for their telescope, I spent my scope money on a 350+ HP hemi jeep cherokee which I enjoy driving. I know there are people who enjoy their car even though they cant go off road or go very fast but i dont belittle them for that.
Cool Beans ! ....I'm a Jeep man too ! It's a Jeep thing , ....Some folks just don't understand .
-------------------- LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff
Fort Rock , Az .
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Al Miller
sage
Reged: 08/25/08
Posts: 417
Loc: San Antonio, Texas
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I also own and use a ST-120 achro. I love it! I get pretty decent images with my small-chip DSI cameras that more than satisfy the one person it needs to... me. I don't care about outdoing the other guy's perfect image, that's already been done. I find that only the brighter stars are bloated but, I don't get absolute pinpoint stars from my reflectors either (and I focus with a Bahtinov mask). My ED refractor is better but not by a huge amount. I too don't expect too much and use my cheap equipment as an observing aid as well as to take some pretty good images. I'm happy. I use the cash I save to get other toys, Astronomy or otherwise. My little ST-120 makes a nice H-alpha imaging scope too. In H-alpha, all the stars are points!
Rick Evans... I think your second image may look even better with a bit of color balancing to reduce the blue. Nice job none-the-less.
BTW... I also have a Jeep and just got myself a nice Camaro.
-------------------- Meade 10" LX200 Classic
Celestron C8 XLT OTA
Orion XT8 Classic Dob.
Meade AR-5, f/9.3 refractor OTA (LXD55 version)
Antares 4.1", f/12.4 refractor w/EQ5
Orion 110ED, f/7 refractor OTA
Orion ST120, f/5 refractor OTA
Orion ST80, f/5 refractor OTA (guidescope)
Meade DSIc, DSI IIc and DSI II Pro
Celestron NexImage (x2)
Orion StarShoot autoguider
Atlas EQ-G mount
Edited by Al Miller (10/28/09 04:13 PM)
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Jeff B
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 12/30/06
Posts: 679
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Next time, try focusing on the blue stars. I'm not an imager...yet... but I know achromats. The red and blue focus of achromats are shifted on the same side relative to green/yellow and by similar amounts. If you focus on the blue & red the green/yellow will be out of focus. But how many green stars and nebulas have you seen lately? Yeah, there are yellow stars but the reds and blues tend to be more numerous and brighter. You would might end up with bloated yellow stars but the red & blue may appear sharper. Ditto with nebulas as they emit a lot of light in the red & Blue ends. The Pleiades might be a worthwhile target to test this. Worth a try?
Jeff
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galaxyman
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 04/04/05
Posts: 1472
Loc: Limerick, Pa
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Quote:
I really believe that processing advances over the years have made it possible for us to tame chromatic aberration at least in deep sky images taken with achros. But at the same time, it is also true that the optics have other aberrations that are controlled for in apos. What would be fascinating, and I think likely possible, is to have someone manufacture an F5 achromat with a high quality lens free of these other aberrations. I think the Orion 120 mm F5 lens is OK and it is fine for my visual and even my imaging needs... but imagine the possibilities if its achromat lens were made just a bit more precisely... I don't think it is the type of glass that is holding achros back... it is a need for better figuring of the lenses...
You nailed it about the over all quality of the optics, particularly at the eyepiece.
For instance my observing colleague also owns a APM achro. His is the 7" f/6 that gives outstanding views from low power to high power (300x plus) on all objects.
As with ALL scopes, good quality optics is essential.
Karl E.O.H.
Chesmont Astronomical Society Telekit (Swayze optics) 22" F/4.5 Dob Homemade (Parks Optics) 12.5" F/4.8 Dob TMB 8" F/9 Refractor”The Beast”. One great achro ES 6" F/6.5 achro- NEW Orion 4" f/6 Refractor. Also not bad for an achro Celestron 10x60 binos
-------------------- So many galaxies, so little time!
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old_frankland
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/28/05
Posts: 525
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
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The 120ST is indeed excellent with narrow band filters, with smaller CCD cameras. Plus, working in H-alpha gets you completely around the local light pollution. Frankly, I think folks are a little too hung up on color. Working in monochrome with H-alpha narrow band is like discovering a whole new univers.
http://www.lafterhall.com/atk16_b33.html
http://www.lafterhall.com/atk16_ic410.html
My 2 cents...
-------------------- Cheers,
Jim
Livermore CA
http://www.lafterhall.com/astro.html
3" APO, 4" ED refractor, 9" SCT, GM8
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BradC
sage
Reged: 01/31/07
Posts: 448
Loc: St. Louis, MO
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Quote:
... but sharp images of stars should be equally sharp in an achro or an apo of similar lens quality. Assuming I focused well, then I should get equally sharp images with an achro or an apo of similar quality....
I'm not sure that's true.
My understanding is that Chromatic Aberration is literally when different colors reach their proper focus at different positions of the focuser (ie, each wavelength has different focal lengths). All the more sophisticated lens designs and exotic materials in APOs are made that way in an attempt to get all colors to focus at the same plane.
The reason you see the purple fringing is because the purple light is de-focused at the exact point at which the other wavelengths are in focus.
Assuming my optic science is correct here, then that leaves you with a few choices to deal with the problem:
1. Post-process the image to reduce the appearance of fringing, as you've done. I really like your result, so in my opinion there is absolutely nothing wrong with this approach.
2. Use a physical filter to reduce or eliminate the purple light when taking the image. Probably allows for more pinpoint stars, but may loose some detail in some DSOs.
3. Use a color wheel to take individual color exposures, adjusting the focus for each one. Then combine and process.
I'd have to dig back through the forum archives, but if I remember right, this last approach (the most labor intensive) could give you the best quality raw frames, that with the right processing might rival what you could do with much more expensive equipment.
-------------------- My God! It's full of stars!
Zhumell 10" dob - First Light Report
Celestron OptiView 10x50 LPR Binoculars
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revans
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 1517
Loc: Fitchburg, MA
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Well... I'm pretty new to processing and so far I only tried to deal with the CA issue. But I noticed that the astronomy package I use does have a bright star select and a star size reduction algorithm. So... I gave it a try.
Maybe its not for purists... and also I must say that I really could do a better job with more practice and this is just a first attempt.... but anyway here is the result of trying to reduce the bright star bloat with post-processing. I'm not really happy with the overall processing yet, but it is a start and I think it could get a whole lot better with practice...
It certainly seems possible to me that both CA and star bloat problems in achro deep sky images likely can both be managed in a post-processing that only takes a few minutes and isn't very complicated...
-------------------- Rick Evans
http://www.freewebs.com/revans_01420/
"The universe is there for us to see, but it cannot be understood without learning its language -- mathematics." Galileo Galilei
Edited by revans (10/28/09 04:55 PM)
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Kal
sage
Reged: 07/31/06
Posts: 201
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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Quote:
The 120ST is indeed excellent with narrow band filters, with smaller CCD cameras. Plus, working in H-alpha gets you completely around the local light pollution. Frankly, I think folks are a little too hung up on color. Working in monochrome with H-alpha narrow band is like discovering a whole new univers.
http://www.lafterhall.com/atk16_b33.html
http://www.lafterhall.com/atk16_ic410.html
My 2 cents...
I agree with you 100%. When doing narrowband imaging, the achro can be a powerful and affordable OTA. While an achro can't focus all wavelengths at once for a single shot color image, it can focus individually all of the wavelengths needed for narrowband imaging. Plus, as you mentioned, you get past light pollution as well!
To the OP, no offense but I really don't like the results you obtained after processing. Of the two I'd prefer the one with all of the CA :/
-------------------- CG-11 • 130mm f6.3 StarFire EDF Gran Turismo • SV90TBV • ETX90EC • 25x100 BINOCULARS • Toucam 840K hacked to a 900NC • DSI Pro
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tcat
sage
Reged: 06/02/08
Posts: 233
Loc: Va
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That is a very nice image, Rick! If you feel pleased with the result as well (and the equipment cost savings!) then you need not worry about the apo purists that reside here from raining on your parade. I agree totally about achromats being underrated. I have been satisfied with my little ST80 for many years and only recently moved up to an ED scope so I could pump the power up a bit more for lunar and planetary viewing.
I hope you will share more images with us in the future. You are evidently on a very fast AP learning curve!
-------------------- Tom
-------------
Orion 102ED / AT Voyager
ST80 / EQ-1
NexStar6 SE
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revans
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 1517
Loc: Fitchburg, MA
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Kal,
Narrow band imaging would be nice to try but I suspect the exposure times would be too long for me. Sorry you didn't like the CA removal etc... I suppose taste in astropics is like wine tasting... everyone has a different palate. Personally I don't like the violet halos and was very glad to be rid of them
-------------------- Rick Evans
http://www.freewebs.com/revans_01420/
"The universe is there for us to see, but it cannot be understood without learning its language -- mathematics." Galileo Galilei
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4071
Loc: NJ USA
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I tested my 120ST with my Pentax K-7 in HD video mode last summer and it looked great for a low cost scope. photo of setup test video
-------------------- Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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SMcD
member
Reged: 09/21/08
Posts: 15
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Hi Rick,
I really like all of your images. To my knowledge, what you are doing is pretty groundbreaking. You are actually doing things that almost nobody has even talked about before now, and producing results. I say "good luck and keep going." I have f12, f13.3, f15 and f15.5 refractors, when you start working with those, please "give me a call."
best regards,
Steve
Edited by SMcD (10/28/09 09:00 PM)
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Craig
Vendor (Stark Labs)
   
Reged: 09/16/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Irvine, CA
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As noted by Brad, the issue is that red, green, and blue come to focus in different positions of the focuser. So, if your red is in focus, your blue is not. That is why you get the blue / violet halos. Move the focuser and that can go away and you'll get another color (which is why the intra and extra focal images have a different hue to them).
I took the liberty of separating your shot there into different color channels in Photoshop. Here, you can clearly see the difference in focus (sharpness) across the colors. In this image, the red data are on the top and the blue on the bottom. With an all-mirror scope or an APO of sorts (i.e., with better color correction) you'll see the sharpness being more equivalent across the color spectrum so you won't have the blurring in the blue you have here.
Were you on a mono camera, as noted by others, and refocused between colors, you can do a great job and keep sharpness equal across the spectrum.
Craig
-------------------- Stark Labs Astrophotography software
Borg 101 ED f/4, C8, and too many cameras to mention
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Jeff B
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 12/30/06
Posts: 679
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Interesting. This suggests to me that this achromat is not a C-F balanced lens where the red and blue would be more equal in focus. But there can also be spherochromatism at work here as well puffing up the blue. Hard to tell really without actually setting it up on a bench and/or interferometer.
Lens may have been optimized for visual use by bringing in the red and letting blue go. If blue is far enough out of focus, it's more difficult to see and can give the impression of lower CA. A minus violet might work very well.
Jeff
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revans
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 1517
Loc: Fitchburg, MA
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I take your point and I certainly would image with separate narrow band filters (I actually have them) but am afraid of the long exposures involved (I'm fairly new to AP and don't have my autoguider working yet).
But you've given me what might be a great idea. So far, in my processing attempts I just worked on the RGB image as a whole. Maybe it would be better to work on each color channel separately and then to combine the final results into a single RGB image using Registar. I know you didn't intend that suggestion, but it seems to be almost a natural consequence of your observations. I don't know if it would work... but when I get some time I'll give that a try.
Meanwhile... for those budget challenged folks like me (I'm mostly retired now) interested in trying to resurrect the ST achro for deep sky imaging... this seems to me to be a wide open field and I'm sure there are better and more experienced image processers out there who (also being on a budget) might want to try to make some advances in this whole concept of improving images with these instruments using post-processing.
I haven't been able to find too many examples of folks working in color but without using either separate regular RGB or narrowband filters or working purely in monochrome (although these results can certainly be very very good as shown in several links posted in this thread by others).
I'm just trying to find out how someone confined to a limited exposure time and without an autoguider can get a fairly decent image of a brighter DSO with an inexpensive short tube achromat and possibly avoiding the separate filters since they much more than than triple the work and precision needed, even if it were spaced out over more than one night of imaging.
Anyway... just some thoughts... but I find these questions pretty interesting and where there are questions there are also, hopefully, answers.
-------------------- Rick Evans
http://www.freewebs.com/revans_01420/
"The universe is there for us to see, but it cannot be understood without learning its language -- mathematics." Galileo Galilei
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Jeff B
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 12/30/06
Posts: 679
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Rick:
Keep experimenting man. When you've refined your techniques and seem to have a process, this would make for a great article.
Jeff
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BarrySimon615
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 1281
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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Rick,
Another thing for you to play with would be a deep sky filter. I found that when taking photos of emission nebulae, the target was enhanced and the chromatic aberration was surpressed. The image below was taken thru my Jaegers 6" f/5 achromat, completed by me in 1979. The target is the North American Nebula.
Note - these photos were taken years ago with an Olympus OM1n slr, film used was Kodak E200 professional. It would be interesting to see what the results would be using my Canon 20D both with and without the nebula filter.
Barry Simon
Edited by BarrySimon615 (10/29/09 10:31 AM)
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revans
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 1517
Loc: Fitchburg, MA
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Thanks for the kind words Jeff (and others). I plan to work more on achromat deep sky image processing but I am starting to wonder if the Orion 120 at F5 has an objective of sufficient quality to make further progress. The blue and red focus are further from each other than I would have supposed and I am suspicious that more than chromatic aberration is lurking in the background here. Short of adding narrow band filters to the mix (as was suggested in this thread) I'm not sure how much more image improvement I can expect over what I've already obtained from further processing.
I tried to work separately on each color channel this morning and the result was OK but no better than I've already posted here. The blue channel is pretty terrible on the unprocessed image and even the green has a very soft focus.
My only other refractor is a Meade 127 mm F9.3 ED scope that so far I've only used for visual work on the moon. I think the CA will be much smaller in that scope, but unfortunately it is a slower scope and I still am not in a position to take sufficiently long exposures (i.e. I need to get the autoguider working and a guidescope set up on the Meade to really use it for imaging).
But I think a better quality achro could be used together with some of the processing techniques I've been using here, to produce some nice deep sky images.
-------------------- Rick Evans
http://www.freewebs.com/revans_01420/
"The universe is there for us to see, but it cannot be understood without learning its language -- mathematics." Galileo Galilei
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ned_l
sage
Reged: 03/12/07
Posts: 200
Loc: north carolina
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I think you have made an interesting argument. What counts is enjoyment of the hobby. AP is not easy, not matter what gear you are using. I did notice that in your processed images you seemed to lose some of the inner detail of the nebula. So I am not sure that the processing can ever really over come the physics of how light focuses. Having said that, it is certainly a better image than I have ever managed. I hope you keep at it and keep posting your results. Maybe try an object with fewer bright stars in the field?
-------------------- 8" Orion Newtonian w/ Sky View Pro mount
Feather Touch focuser
Stellarvue 102 ED
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Raven911
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 03/12/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: by Cloudcroft, NM
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I image with my 100mm achro from time to time. It is actually very good at it in my opinion, and has a remarkably flat field that most apo's do not have. This image of M33 was taken with my 300D DSLR. I do not think I used any filtration. There is a little bit of blue, but the bloat is no worse than I get when using my SCT's.
I think a lot of people try to justify spending a lot of money for their scopes and project it onto others. I do think there is value in the uber expensive apo's out there used solely for imaging, but for guys like me, I will stick with my cheaper alternatives. The CCD doesn't know.
I came up with a way to separate each color channel and reduce the color and bloat, though this image has not had it done. It actually works very well.
I think a lot of people get scared off from imaging thinking they need a lot more than they really do. It is a crime in my opinion.
-------------------- http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v287/Raven911/Astrophotos/
http://www.eye-of-the-raven.blogspot.com/
My list of second-hand and home-made stuff:
Celestron SC6
Celestron C9.25
100mm F6/76mm F4.5/80mm F5/SV NHII 80mm F6 Achros
SBIG ST7/Canon 300D/DSI Pro Mono/Starshoot DSCI
8 inch F7 Newt on Edmund EQ
8 inch F4.5 Project Astrograph
Edited by Raven911 (10/29/09 01:07 PM)
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Raven911
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 03/12/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: by Cloudcroft, NM
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Here is an image of M51 I did. Blue is a little worse, but no worse than others done with other types of scopes. For intermediate level imaging, I think it is quite well done.
If I had a $2500 dollar CCD, I would be more concerned and would need a better scope.
My blog-site has more images like this. I think they are in the 2008 archive section.
-------------------- http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v287/Raven911/Astrophotos/
http://www.eye-of-the-raven.blogspot.com/
My list of second-hand and home-made stuff:
Celestron SC6
Celestron C9.25
100mm F6/76mm F4.5/80mm F5/SV NHII 80mm F6 Achros
SBIG ST7/Canon 300D/DSI Pro Mono/Starshoot DSCI
8 inch F7 Newt on Edmund EQ
8 inch F4.5 Project Astrograph
Edited by Raven911 (10/29/09 01:04 PM)
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starrancher
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 620
Loc: Northern Arizona
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That is actually very nice !
-------------------- LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff
Fort Rock , Az .
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Jared
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 10/11/05
Posts: 2540
Loc: Piedmont, California, U.S.
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Quote:
Thanks for the kind words Jeff (and others). I plan to work more on achromat deep sky image processing but I am starting to wonder if the Orion 120 at F5 has an objective of sufficient quality to make further progress. The blue and red focus are further from each other than I would have supposed and I am suspicious that more than chromatic aberration is lurking in the background here. Short of adding narrow band filters to the mix (as was suggested in this thread) I'm not sure how much more image improvement I can expect over what I've already obtained from further processing.
I tried to work separately on each color channel this morning and the result was OK but no better than I've already posted here. The blue channel is pretty terrible on the unprocessed image and even the green has a very soft focus.
My only other refractor is a Meade 127 mm F9.3 ED scope that so far I've only used for visual work on the moon. I think the CA will be much smaller in that scope, but unfortunately it is a slower scope and I still am not in a position to take sufficiently long exposures (i.e. I need to get the autoguider working and a guidescope set up on the Meade to really use it for imaging).
But I think a better quality achro could be used together with some of the processing techniques I've been using here, to produce some nice deep sky images.
In most hobbies once you reach a certain (surprisingly low) quality level in your kit the skills of the hobbiest play a much larger role in success than the cost of the equipment. A good fly fisherman with a basic fiberglass rod will be much more successful than a mediocre fisherman with a handmade, bamboo gem. Lance Armstrong on a Schwinn Varsity would be able to run circles around me no matter what bicycle I rode--and I'm a moderately accomplished cyclist. A good golfer with a mediocre set of clubs is still a good golfer--and her scores will show it.
The same can not be said of long exposure, deep sky astrophotography. No matter how good you are at astrophotography, if your mount can't track accurately you aren't going to capture nice, round stars. If your camera has bad thermal noise you aren't going to be able to capture images of dim objects. If you have an f/5 Newtonian you aren't going to be able to capture wide fields of view with pinpoint stars to the edge. A good photographer, when faced with these challenges, will simply pick a subject that is well suited to her equipment.
Do skills matter? Of course they do. But if you don't have a fairly substantial budget for astrophotography your skills don't need to be that sophisticated before you start running into the limitations of the equipment. You just aren't going to get a picture--any picture--of Stephan's Quintet with an 80mm refractor on a photo tripod!
I don't think you have reached the limit of what your current achromat can accomplish. Longer total exposure time, longer individual subexposures, better tracking, use of a monochrome camera (with re-focus between RG&B frames) could all substantially improve image quality. That assumes you have the interest, the patience, and the budget. After making those changes I think you would be in a better position to determine how large an affect the optical tube is having on your image quality. The local observatory where I volunteer as an 8" Alvan Clark and a 20" Brashear refractor, and those are both capable of taking some superb pictures.
Prior to my current setup, I was imaging with a high quality 110mm refractor, an SBIG 2000 CCD camera, and a Losmandy GM-8 mount. Definitely considered a fairly nice rig for portable astrophotography. The limiting factor in image quality was my own skill set. Specifically, it was my skill with the mount that was holding me back. I couldn't get it adjusted and setup to produce consistently smooth tracking. There was just a little too much weight to get good results without careful adjustment, setup, and balance. I could have been using a 4" achromat and a DSLR and the image quality would not have been substantially different because my skill with the mount was what was holding me back. Eventually, I learned more about the strengths and limitations of the mount and my image quality went up. But I hit a wall. No matter how carefully I adjusted the mount, no matter how carefully I drift aligned the scope, no matter how careful I was in calibrating the autoguider and choosing the right exposure duration I couldn't get my image resolution to approach what I knew was possible with a 4" scope. My gear simply weighed too much for my GM-8 to support. I upgraded my mount and my resolution virtually doubled overnight. No change in my skills, no change in camera, no change in scope, no change in technique. The resolution literally doubled. Situations like this are all too common in astrophotography.
I'd recommend you figure out what the biggest weakness is in your imaging train and address that first. Then move on to the next weakness once you are satisfied you have addressed the first. Imaging skills can be improved in parallel, of course. From looking at the samples you provided, I'd say tracking accuracy and focus are the first two things to be addressed. Focus is probably most easily addressed with a Bahtinov mask or equivalent. Tracking accuracy is going to require autoguiding and perhaps an upgraded mount.
Best of luck with whatever direction you decide to take! I certainly agree that it is possible to take good images with an achromat, and that in your case the scope itself is not the most critical component to address.
-------------------- - Jared Willson
- TMB 152 f/8 Apochromat
- Fluorostar FLT-110 w/ TEC optics
- Stellarvue SV80S
- Astro-Physics Mach1 GTO
- Takahashi Teegul SP Mount
- STL-11000
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Jared
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 10/11/05
Posts: 2540
Loc: Piedmont, California, U.S.
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Quote:
I image with my 100mm achro from time to time. It is actually very good at it in my opinion, and has a remarkably flat field that most apo's do not have. This image of M33 was taken with my 300D DSLR. I do not think I used any filtration. There is a little bit of blue, but the bloat is no worse than I get when using my SCT's.
I think a lot of people try to justify spending a lot of money for their scopes and project it onto others. I do think there is value in the uber expensive apo's out there used solely for imaging, but for guys like me, I will stick with my cheaper alternatives. The CCD doesn't know.
I came up with a way to separate each color channel and reduce the color and bloat, though this image has not had it done. It actually works very well.
I think a lot of people get scared off from imaging thinking they need a lot more than they really do. It is a crime in my opinion.
Nice image of M33--I'm impressed! And I agree with you to a point. You don't need fancy equipment to have fun with astrophotography. But your expectations need to be in line with the capabilities of the equipment, and you need to choose subjects that are appropriate for what you own. As long as you don't expect to take Hubble-like shots of faint fuzzies with an 80mm achromat on an EQ1 mount I'm O.K.. If you get bitten by the bug, though, and constantly want to take your imaging to the next level and the next and the next, you're not going to be able to do that without substantial budget.
One correction I would make, by the way... All refractors of a given focal length have virtually the same amount of field curvature (ignoring Petzvals and designs with integrated field flatteners). If your 100mm achromat has less field curvature than most apochromats, it is because it is a longer focal length than most, not because it is an achromat.
Again, nice work with the images you posted.
-------------------- - Jared Willson
- TMB 152 f/8 Apochromat
- Fluorostar FLT-110 w/ TEC optics
- Stellarvue SV80S
- Astro-Physics Mach1 GTO
- Takahashi Teegul SP Mount
- STL-11000
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Raven911
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 03/12/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: by Cloudcroft, NM
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Jared speaks the truth in many ways. Planning for what your capabilities are is essential. I have actually moved on from refractors, and am concentrating on long exposure images of small targets (obscure galaxies, mostly). I am presently skirting the limits of what my set-up is capable of. As an example, and don't laugh, I am running a C9.25 on a heavily modified LXD75 with a small achro guidescope. It seems to be working very well for now, if I can work out the focus bugs, and I have been getting consistent 10 minute guided subexposures, which is pretty much the limit for an LXD75, according to most people. I have gone as long as 15 minutes before, but the computer or the mount usually hiccups.
I figure I will stay at this level for quite a while, since I haven't really hit the wall yet.
-------------------- http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v287/Raven911/Astrophotos/
http://www.eye-of-the-raven.blogspot.com/
My list of second-hand and home-made stuff:
Celestron SC6
Celestron C9.25
100mm F6/76mm F4.5/80mm F5/SV NHII 80mm F6 Achros
SBIG ST7/Canon 300D/DSI Pro Mono/Starshoot DSCI
8 inch F7 Newt on Edmund EQ
8 inch F4.5 Project Astrograph
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Rat8bug
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 01/07/05
Posts: 1472
Loc: Michigan
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Agreed!
http://www.barrie-tao.com/vixen80ss.html
Ciao....Barry
-------------------- Nikon D40/D50/D70 DSLR
WO 105mm Triplet APO
WO Zenithstar 66SD APO (Black 'n Blue)
WO 8 x 45mm APO Bino
UO 20 x 80mm Bino
Vixen 80SS Refractor
Orion 127mm Apex Maksutov
Vixen GP-DX with Skysensor 2000
SBIG STV and e-finder
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revans
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 1517
Loc: Fitchburg, MA
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Nice image ! Why not post your color/bloat corrected version for comparison?
Rick
-------------------- Rick Evans
http://www.freewebs.com/revans_01420/
"The universe is there for us to see, but it cannot be understood without learning its language -- mathematics." Galileo Galilei
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Raven911
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 03/12/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: by Cloudcroft, NM
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Those two images I posted really don't have a whole lot of bloat correction if I remember correctly. I don't even think I really color corrected them either, other than basic color balancing, and stacking with DSS.
I got to where I imaged using a Lumicon MV filter, and I am pretty sure these were done with it in place, but cannot really remember. It would impart a yellowish cast that was easily removed with good color balancing.
I do remember one of my tricks for dealing with color and bloat. In Photoshop, duplicate the image as a layer and desaturate it. The go back to the original layer and color select the stars. Then run an expanded minimum filter on them to reduce the fringe area. After that, run a faded minimum filter on the stars of the desaturated layer.
Then take the desaturated layer and make it into a Luminance layer, faded to your best judgement.
This always worked for me, but I am sure there are easier ways to do it. It has been a LONG time since I have messed with it.
-------------------- http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v287/Raven911/Astrophotos/
http://www.eye-of-the-raven.blogspot.com/
My list of second-hand and home-made stuff:
Celestron SC6
Celestron C9.25
100mm F6/76mm F4.5/80mm F5/SV NHII 80mm F6 Achros
SBIG ST7/Canon 300D/DSI Pro Mono/Starshoot DSCI
8 inch F7 Newt on Edmund EQ
8 inch F4.5 Project Astrograph
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revans
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 1517
Loc: Fitchburg, MA
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The overall quality of the optics, achro or otherwise, may be the most important issue (apart from a good mount). If I think about scopes with the light gathering potential of the Orion 120 mm F5, but supposedly with higher quality optics... then the only quasi affordable scope that comes to mind would be the Orion EON 120 F7.5 ED scope used in combination with a Williams Optics 0.8x focal reducer ($250)for F6 (it is designed for 80mm to 110mm scopes, but I'm told it would be OK for the EON 120 by someone with this setup). But the EON is about $2K which is a lot more than the $320 I paid for the achro.
I'd consider taking this somewhat expensive step up in kit eventually but still have plenty to learn using the 120 mm F5 achro in the meanwhile, and I guess the next logical step is to try narrow band filter imaging with the achro and see what the results look like...
-------------------- Rick Evans
http://www.freewebs.com/revans_01420/
"The universe is there for us to see, but it cannot be understood without learning its language -- mathematics." Galileo Galilei
Edited by revans (10/29/09 02:59 PM)
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LLEEGE
Running out of Oxygen
   
Reged: 03/03/05
Posts: 9082
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
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If imaging on a budget is important, a good Newt and chromacore is a nice option. No color issues to deal with at all.
-------------------- "Okay! You draw the straws. I'm-a taking the parachute."
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solshaker
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 06/06/06
Posts: 1836
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IMO, its easy to lose sight of what makes a good image. for me its been beating my gear into submission to get the best results i can. not counting my camera, i have a grand total of 400 bones invested in my 100/f5 and old model asgt. so yeah, someone with a 5g setup is gonna make my images look like excrement. but you dont have to have all that to make yourself happy. you dont have to have the best ccd, uber apo, and a herculean mount to capture the beauty of the night sky.
ive never even bothered to try to process out the ca in my achro photos. it doesnt bother me, really. would i like to have a nice apo? well, of course. they are better at imaging for sure. for now, though, im happy going with what i got.
im sure this photo of m8, or this afocal shot of the horse head, makes some imagers want to vomit through their eyeballs. so what. im proud of 'em.
-------------------- My Gallery
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Raven911
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 03/12/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: by Cloudcroft, NM
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It is actually a bit of a vendetta of mine to produce good images using gear that is either obsolete or not what is normally used. Just to show it can be done with things other than a $10,000 dollar mount and $5000 dollar scope.
-------------------- http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v287/Raven911/Astrophotos/
http://www.eye-of-the-raven.blogspot.com/
My list of second-hand and home-made stuff:
Celestron SC6
Celestron C9.25
100mm F6/76mm F4.5/80mm F5/SV NHII 80mm F6 Achros
SBIG ST7/Canon 300D/DSI Pro Mono/Starshoot DSCI
8 inch F7 Newt on Edmund EQ
8 inch F4.5 Project Astrograph
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old_frankland
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/28/05
Posts: 525
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
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If you simply gotta do color, then I guess you gotta do color. But, if you're interested in seeing and imaging what is out there, especially with modest equipment, don't be so quick to toss imaging in monochrome. Narrow band specifically.
http://www.lafterhall.com/atk16_ic410.html
http://www.lafterhall.com/atk16_b33.html
-------------------- Cheers,
Jim
Livermore CA
http://www.lafterhall.com/astro.html
3" APO, 4" ED refractor, 9" SCT, GM8
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revans
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 1517
Loc: Fitchburg, MA
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Its not that I'm at all against narrow band imaging in monochrome with H-alpha... its just that my preliminary attempts just using an LPR filter made me believe that the imaging time was increased exponentially by the addition of the filter... that's the only thing holding me back... because I can't do much more than 30 minutes exposure time right now... but by next summer hopefully longer exposures might be possible... I think your monochromes are top notch... I haven't seen better anywhere...
-------------------- Rick Evans
http://www.freewebs.com/revans_01420/
"The universe is there for us to see, but it cannot be understood without learning its language -- mathematics." Galileo Galilei
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old_frankland
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/28/05
Posts: 525
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
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I typically work with 10 to 20 minute guided exposures when shooting H-alpha and OIII. Frankly, too much can go wrong with a portable setup doing 30+ minute exposures. You lose one of those to a plane passing through, a mount drive hic-up or a bump to the tube, that's a lot of thrown away imaging time. Losing a 10 or 15 minute exposure doesn't hurt so bad.
-------------------- Cheers,
Jim
Livermore CA
http://www.lafterhall.com/astro.html
3" APO, 4" ED refractor, 9" SCT, GM8
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revans
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 1517
Loc: Fitchburg, MA
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OK.. but when I say 30 minute exposure what I really mean is ten exposures of 3 minutes each, unguided... doing more than that unguided can drive you crazy 
Rick
-------------------- Rick Evans
http://www.freewebs.com/revans_01420/
"The universe is there for us to see, but it cannot be understood without learning its language -- mathematics." Galileo Galilei
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old_frankland
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/28/05
Posts: 525
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
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Oh, well, that's a horse of a different color.
This one was manually guided, as was B33.
http://www.lafterhall.com/atk16_ngc2264.html
-------------------- Cheers,
Jim
Livermore CA
http://www.lafterhall.com/astro.html
3" APO, 4" ED refractor, 9" SCT, GM8
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revans
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 1517
Loc: Fitchburg, MA
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Nice ! It inspires me to get my SXV-7m up and running again as an autoguider. I'm probably not that far from getting everything to work again. I had it working on my Tak EM-200 mount but the short tube refractor can only be mounted on my G11... and so I have to transition the autoguider to a "new" mount. I think it should work OK.. but haven't put much time into it yet... have to connect through the GPUSB box, get MAXIM DL to recognize the camera and mount combo etc... most likely the project will wait until next summer though... until then I'll probably stay unguided or maybe manually guided... unless I find some ambition...
-------------------- Rick Evans
http://www.freewebs.com/revans_01420/
"The universe is there for us to see, but it cannot be understood without learning its language -- mathematics." Galileo Galilei
Edited by revans (10/29/09 06:33 PM)
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old_frankland
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/28/05
Posts: 525
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
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So many cool things to do, so little....well, you know.
-------------------- Cheers,
Jim
Livermore CA
http://www.lafterhall.com/astro.html
3" APO, 4" ED refractor, 9" SCT, GM8
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RogerRZ
Whatta you lookin' at?
   
Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 2584
Loc: West Collette, NB, Canada
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I would invite those who would like to do photography and think an apo is unaffordable to take a look at a used 80ED. Often seen for sale at less than $300, this will yield pinpoint stars without the need for processing.
It won't pull in as much light for visual use as a 120mm scope, but with a little longer exposure, you will get roughly the same image scale as the bigger scope, and will absolutely lay waste to any this or any achro. This is just my opinion, of course, but I would invite anyone who questions this to do a quick Google search on 80ED+M27 and see what turns up...
-------------------- -Roger Pitre-
1 X 7 binocular Astro-Tech Imaging Newtonian MPCC
Starblast guidescope Starshoot autoguider
EQ6 Pro, HEQ5, Canon 50D, 70-200 f/4L
"He's got shoulders on him like a smelt..."--Anonymous
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=10723&id=509325956&l=79d06a1d10
http://ajpobservatory.isgreat.org/
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revans
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 1517
Loc: Fitchburg, MA
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I don't disagree, but I hate to give up the extra aperture as I'd ideally like to image things fainter than M27... I think 120 mm is just about right for what I'd like to do in time... if I'm not successful with narrowband with the achro (and that will take a long time for me to achieve since I don't like to be out there experimenting in the freezing cold of a New England winter surrounded by deep ice and snow... only have enough energy for "sure things" under those conditions.. but hopefully it can be next a next spring or summer project for me). If all else fails then my next target scope would probably be the EON 120 but I may not see one of those for a couple of years... which gives me plenty of time to learn AP... and get my autoguider setup working...
-------------------- Rick Evans
http://www.freewebs.com/revans_01420/
"The universe is there for us to see, but it cannot be understood without learning its language -- mathematics." Galileo Galilei
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Raven911
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 03/12/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: by Cloudcroft, NM
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Too many pics out there from 80ed's. Great little scope, but way too popular. I have had several chances to do this very thing, but went the 6" sct route instead for the extra aperture and the fact that images from them are exceedingly rare. I have an 80mm Stellarvue, but it mostly sees guidescope duty.
Now some flavor of large triplet would perk my interest, but I would probably have to sell one of my children to buy it. There are cheaper knock offs out there (like Orion) but they just don't get me real excited for some reason.
-------------------- http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v287/Raven911/Astrophotos/
http://www.eye-of-the-raven.blogspot.com/
My list of second-hand and home-made stuff:
Celestron SC6
Celestron C9.25
100mm F6/76mm F4.5/80mm F5/SV NHII 80mm F6 Achros
SBIG ST7/Canon 300D/DSI Pro Mono/Starshoot DSCI
8 inch F7 Newt on Edmund EQ
8 inch F4.5 Project Astrograph
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snart
professor emeritus
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 596
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
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Quote:
Too many pics out there from 80ed's.
And let's just think why this is? Or more specifically, you should think just exactly why this is...
-------------------- Celestron C100ED w/ Moonlite focuser
6" f/9.25 Newtonian - GEM
Meade 10" f/10 Schmidt-Cassegrain
18" f/4.5 Newtonian - Dob
4mm & 5mm TMB SMCs, 6mm, 7mm, 9mm, 12mm UO HD Orthos, 4.8mm, 7mm, 11mm, 16mm, 20mm TV Naglers, 24mm, 32mm, 40mm TV WFs, 55mm TV Plossl.
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cvedeler
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 12/20/05
Posts: 2164
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
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Achro's can produce some nice images. They can basically work to get you hooked until you want to get better and better images. Once your standards reach a certain point your equipment becomes the limiting factor. Lance Armstrong on a Wal-Mart bike may be able to beat me hands down, but he wouldn't have ever won the Tour d' France with one. An Achro refractor can produce some pretty nice images, but if you are interested in better and better images, no amount of processing will give you what you can get with a better APO. Of course better gear costs more and so it isn't for everyone. There is something to be said for really just enjoying and getting the most with what you have.
-------------------- Chris Vedeler
Astro-Physics 160EDF
Astro-Physics 900GTO
Q453HR / QHY8 CCD camera
Canon 450XSi
----------------------------
www.aznightsky.com
Scottsdale, AZ
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GlennLeDrew
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 1304
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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When imaging extended objects such as nebulae, it's not the linear aperture which matters so much as f/ratio. An 80mm f/5 will record the same image 'density' (to use a term from film days) as can a 300mm f/5. Where the difference lies between these two examples is of course image scale and detail recorded. (And it goes without saying that the larger 'scope will record much fainter stars by virtue of its longer focal length.)
A viable expedient in the war against CA is a minus violet filter. Or for a bit more aggressive taming of the hated blue halos, a pale yellow filter could be tried.
Note that longitudinal CA takes a form where toward shorter wavelengths it grows exponentially. For example, and in a very simplistic way, lets say that in the 10mn interval between 450nm to 440nm CA increases by 10%. It could well be that in the same 10nm interval between 440nm and 430nm CA might increase by 20%. So a cut-off applied at just the bluest end of the spectrum can pay significant dividends in reduction of 'blue bloat', without inflicting any real color cast. Moreover, that small amount of bluest light filtered out of the image will result in almost zero impact on limiting magnitude because it's only going into the out-of-focus 'fuzz' anyway (and which is visible only around the brightest stars to boot).
-------------------- Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Home-made Mk II RA bino, using interchangeable objectives and eyepieces
My Gallery
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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DonBoy
member
Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 29
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I have a different slant on the performance of the 120ST for my bag is video AP and I have experienced images as appears in Rick's unprocessed image with my 120ST. My desire is to have live images with the least artifacts, the haloing of chromatic aberration is definitely evident using my 120ST. Before I had the 120ST I was using my C80ED for wider FOVs and picked up the 120ST to give me the same FOV as the C80ED but twice the speed in image capture f/7.5 to f/5. I immediately noticed what appeared to be lower quality images, which was due to the bloating of stars caused by chromatic aberration and resulted in lower detail sharpness. So I picked up a Megrez 110 and my video image quality is back at the level I would want.
The 120ST is a very fine scope when used for the proper application. It just didn't work for my app.
Don W3DAL
Celestron C8 SCT Megrez 110 Celestron 80ED Orion 120ST iOptron MiniTower LXD650 Stellacam II NexImage
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Raven911
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 03/12/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: by Cloudcroft, NM
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Quote:
Quote:
Too many pics out there from 80ed's.
And let's just think why this is? Or more specifically, you should think just exactly why this is...
I think a lot of it is because everybody says "start with an 80ed. It will be easier."
They are nice, but they have sort of become the Mickey D's of imaging.
-------------------- http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v287/Raven911/Astrophotos/
http://www.eye-of-the-raven.blogspot.com/
My list of second-hand and home-made stuff:
Celestron SC6
Celestron C9.25
100mm F6/76mm F4.5/80mm F5/SV NHII 80mm F6 Achros
SBIG ST7/Canon 300D/DSI Pro Mono/Starshoot DSCI
8 inch F7 Newt on Edmund EQ
8 inch F4.5 Project Astrograph
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Igor
super member
Reged: 04/20/06
Posts: 126
Loc: Croatia
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Has anyone tried to take photos using achro and DSLR but focusing first on red wavelength then green and then blue, throwing out the other two channels which are not focused properly (something like RGB imaging but using bayer matrix as filters) its a lot of work but could be done, right?
-------------------- GSO 250/f5 dob
Skywatcher Explorer 130p @ EQ3
Baader modified 350D and bunch of old M42 lenses
Edited by Igor (11/03/09 04:46 AM)
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jayscheuerle
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 4076
Loc: S. Philadelphia, PA
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Aside from the difficulty of focusing that way, you'd be throwing out two thirds of your light! At a certain point, a small apo seems like a wiser choice. - j
-------------------- Fight indignorance!
The Green Goblin - 12" of dobsonian excellence!
The PortaBowl-a $100 4.5" f/8 ball-scope YOU can build!
Eero2-a 6" f/5 ball-scope you probably can't.
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BradC
sage
Reged: 01/31/07
Posts: 448
Loc: St. Louis, MO
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Quote:
Has anyone tried to take photos using achro and DSLR but focusing first on red wavelength then green and then blue, throwing out the other two channels which are not focused properly (something like RGB imaging but using bayer matrix as filters) its a lot of work but could be done, right?
I can't imagine how you'd focus on a specific wavelength with any accuracy if you didn't filter out the other colors.
-------------------- My God! It's full of stars!
Zhumell 10" dob - First Light Report
Celestron OptiView 10x50 LPR Binoculars
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