no more names
journeyman
Reged: 01/26/09
Posts: 7
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I found one telescope 127mm ED APO Refractor made in China , but I am afraid of lenses (is it really ED)and GOTO quality. The tube only cost about 950$ without mountand, and other accessories
The telescope produced by Hioptic. North group
Does any one having experience with that name?
If it compared to normal achromatic telescope with known manufacturer where you think the choice should go?
Thanks
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Itz marcus
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/12/06
Posts: 909
Loc: Brooklyn NY
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Hi,
If looks mean anything it looks like the Meade 127mm triplet in which case several very favorable reviews have been written!
The price though is dirt cheap as these typically go for $2000.
Hope this helps
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Eon 120 ED 
Stellarvue bv3
Gas is only worth it in the stars not at the pump
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ken svp120
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/19/04
Posts: 1273
Loc: Ohio
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I say it time and again - you get what you pay for. It is human nature to want to believe that you can get a fantastic product for next to nothing. The reality is that 99.9% of the time you are throwing away your money. These chinese optics are a perfect case in point. The 5" "apo's" that have recently been hitting the market in the $2,000 price range are certainly better corrected than most achromats but they are noticably not the industry leaders either and some suffer from constancy issues. Now you are talking about one for half that price? This does not even arouse my interest. It is WAY out of the expected price range for that size apo. Unless the Chinese have suddenly mastered the mass production have extremely precise optics, this scope is HIGHLY suspect.
If you want to gamble with $1,000 though - by all means buy this scope and give us a report. If it were me though, I would take the money to the casino - I think my odds would be better. 
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Orion 120 Refractor
Orion SkyviewPro Mount, Single Axis Drive
Losmandy G11 Mount, Non-Gemini
TEC 140 Apochromat #300
Meade DSI Pro II Monochrome
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Ennis
sage
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 328
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Actually....this very scope, from North Group, has received high praise from numerous amateur astronomers in Australia. Check out the "Ice In Space" forum. So, if you were to purchase this scope, you would probably be happy. HOWEVER, one can reasonably assume that, at this price point, it is a bit of a risk to purchase this scope from North Group. If you did have a problem, sending it back to China for repair/refund may be impractical. BTW, this is basically the same scope sold by Explore Scientific in the USA for $2000. For the extra bucks, one gets a higher order of quality control (or so I believe) and someone to call if a problem is encountered. I can personally vouch for the very fine customer service at Explore Scientific.
Ennis
Sky-Watcher Pro 120ED
35 Panoptic
Several Radians and Stratuses
Edited by Ennis (11/06/09 08:40 AM)
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Mike C
sage
Reged: 03/05/08
Posts: 363
Loc: Cornwall, UK
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That looks identical to my Meade ED 127mm, which came with quality assurance from Meade Europe, owned apparently by Bresser. However, it was nowhere near that cheap but it did come with 50mm finder and 2" diagonal.
It's a great scope if you get a good copy, but I too would be wary of that low price (or jealous if it's a goodie!).
Regards.
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Mike Crowle
http://www.pbase.com/mcrowle/astrophotography
Meade Series 5000 ED Apo 127mm
Celestron C8 SCT (1991 model)
Losmandy G-11; Vixen Super Polaris
Canon EOS 40D (unmodded); Philips SPC-900NC Webcam
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 13440
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Quote:
Unless the Chinese have suddenly mastered the mass production have extremely precise optics, this scope is HIGHLY suspect.
The better Chinese optical factories now use computer-controlled grinding and polishing machines sourced from Germany. These are state-of-the-art.
However, to achieve the very highest level of optical performance (especially when making a triplet), the intervention of a master optician is still required.
That's why you won't see lenses with a Strehl of 0.99 coming out of China on a regular basis.
However, we've certainly seen more samples of value-priced Chinese apos with Strehls over 0.9 and quite a few in the mid 90's.
That's typically nice enough for the great majority of scope users, even folks who enjoy fine quality refractors.
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A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife, two curious cats and one sadly departed.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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Eddgie
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/01/06
Posts: 2703
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My main concern with buying off brand items is that I always get the feeling that I may possibly getting rejected items (blems, or some flaw only detected late in the manufacturing process).
When you buy from a name brand company, the risk of this I think is less.
Even Televue sells Blem eyepieces. I have read (but do not know for sure) that they check EVERY eyepiece, and that they mark their blems and sell them at a discount at trade shows. Many people that buy these say that they themselves cannot SEE the problem, but Televue apparently did.
And think about how GOOD TVs vendor must be, but TV STILL finds blems!
So, when you buy a clone scope, my gut feeling is always that it MIGHT be a deal where the scope didn't pass muster for the brand that buys that design.
Or, maybe not. Maybe it is just snatched off of the end of the line and put in a generic box and sold to X, Y, or Z company, or sold directly.
The cost of MAKING these is not all that much probably. A lot of what you are paying for is marketing and a lot of other general business overhead. A Chinese direct seller doesn't have a lot of these expenses.
The REAL problem is that you simply don't KNOW!
My bet though? If it comes with some warrentee that allows you to return it for a REFUND, chances are that the scope will be of sufficent quality as to be close enough to make the discount well worth it.
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Celestron C14, CGE (Big Al)
Astro-Physics 6" f/8 (Buffy)
Televue 101 (No name, but I call it my Widescreen HD Space TV)
The night sky is my mistress. She seduces me away from all other lovers.
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lightfever
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/27/04
Posts: 1277
Loc: Macomb Michigan
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Eddgie nice post, I think you made a great point.
You don't know if this is a scope that was not up to the standards set by a reseller like "Explore Scientific" or it was taken off the line and simply bypassed the reseller chain.
In the first case you get what you pay for, in the second case you get a good deal but no real prospect of good service if a problem were to arise.
You take your chances, but if there are good reports from Australia who knows, it may be a deal.
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Mark
Tasco 15-TE 76mm
Sky Watcher 80mm ED
AT-111 Triplet
XT8i (with Woden re-figured mirror)
Discovery 12.5" f/5 Premium DHQ (PDHQ Split-tube Dobsonian)
12.5" f/6.3 Dob (Underconstruction)
Celestron CG-5GT EQ Mount
Celestron C4 EQ Mount
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, but learning to dance in the rain" unknown
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DLB242
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/29/08
Posts: 545
Loc: Pen Argyl, PA
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Quote:
I found one telescope 127mm ED APO Refractor made in China , but I am afraid of lenses (is it really ED)and GOTO quality. The tube only cost about 950$ without mountand, and other accessories
The telescope produced by Hioptic. North group
Does any one having experience with that name?
If it compared to normal achromatic telescope with known manufacturer where you think the choice should go?
Thanks
You give no location. Are those US dollars?
We have had good reports about the ES127ED and I would consider one for the $2000 or so price they are being sold for. I don't know if I would feel comfortable though buying this scope direct from China with no local company to stand behind it if there was a problem. 
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David B
10" f/5 DOB
6" f/8 DOB
Celestron C8
Antares 1529 6" f/6.5 MoonLite Focuser
Orion ShortTube 130mm f/5 Reflector
Stellarvue SV102BV f/8.7 LOMO Doublet APO
Stellarvue SV90T f/7 Fluorite
Synta ShortTube 80
Stellarvue SV70ED
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LLEEGE
Running out of Oxygen
Reged: 03/03/05
Posts: 9078
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
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It is more economical to sell a reject at a deep discount then to throw it away.
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"Okay! You draw the straws. I'm-a taking the parachute."
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 13440
Loc: Oort Cloud
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One person's experience.  
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A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife, two curious cats and one sadly departed.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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skybsd
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/01/08
Posts: 599
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Why is it that folks around here find it so easy to look at a photo, figure that the thing in the picture appears to be similar to another scope they know, and presume to be in a position to advise?
Regards,
skybsd
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ken svp120
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/19/04
Posts: 1273
Loc: Ohio
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Quote:
Why is it that folks around here find it so easy to look at a photo, figure that the thing in the picture appears to be similar to another scope they know, and presume to be in a position to advise?
Regards,
skybsd
That's a pretty good point, but one thing to keep in mind - especially with these scopes being made in the east, is that they will make one particular design and it may then be branded and sold by numerous different companies such as Meade, Orion, Celestron, ES, etc... So to infer that a scope is a particular one based on simply seeing a picture of it may not be horribly out of line. I still agree with you in large part but all I guess I'm trying to say is that making this assumption might not be as big a leap as it seems. I'm open to reconsidering that notion though...
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Orion 120 Refractor
Orion SkyviewPro Mount, Single Axis Drive
Losmandy G11 Mount, Non-Gemini
TEC 140 Apochromat #300
Meade DSI Pro II Monochrome
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ken svp120
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/19/04
Posts: 1273
Loc: Ohio
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Quote:
Actually....this very scope, from North Group, has received high praise from numerous amateur astronomers in Australia. Check out the "Ice In Space" forum. So, if you were to purchase this scope, you would probably be happy. HOWEVER, one can reasonably assume that, at this price point, it is a bit of a risk to purchase this scope from North Group. If you did have a problem, sending it back to China for repair/refund may be impractical. BTW, this is basically the same scope sold by Explore Scientific in the USA for $2000. For the extra bucks, one gets a higher order of quality control (or so I believe) and someone to call if a problem is encountered. I can personally vouch for the very fine customer service at Explore Scientific.
Ennis
Sky-Watcher Pro 120ED
35 Panoptic
Several Radians and Stratuses
Would you please provide links to those threads?
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Orion 120 Refractor
Orion SkyviewPro Mount, Single Axis Drive
Losmandy G11 Mount, Non-Gemini
TEC 140 Apochromat #300
Meade DSI Pro II Monochrome
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DLB242
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/29/08
Posts: 545
Loc: Pen Argyl, PA
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Quote:
It is more economical to sell a reject at a deep discount then to throw it away.
I bought a few "Seconds" from Orion over the years so I don't have a problem with the concept. If you know the product is less than perfect and you are willing to accept this it is one thing. The OP does not indicate this $950 offering is anything other than new.
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David B
10" f/5 DOB
6" f/8 DOB
Celestron C8
Antares 1529 6" f/6.5 MoonLite Focuser
Orion ShortTube 130mm f/5 Reflector
Stellarvue SV102BV f/8.7 LOMO Doublet APO
Stellarvue SV90T f/7 Fluorite
Synta ShortTube 80
Stellarvue SV70ED
Edited by DLB242 (11/06/09 05:09 PM)
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DLB242
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/29/08
Posts: 545
Loc: Pen Argyl, PA
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Quote:
Why is it that folks around here find it so easy to look at a photo, figure that the thing in the picture appears to be similar to another scope they know, and presume to be in a position to advise?
Regards,
skybsd
Taking a second look at the picture posted by the OP the scope does look a bit shorter than the photo of the ES 127ED on the Explore Scientific site.
http://explorescientific.com/telescopes/127mm_ed_apo.html
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David B
10" f/5 DOB
6" f/8 DOB
Celestron C8
Antares 1529 6" f/6.5 MoonLite Focuser
Orion ShortTube 130mm f/5 Reflector
Stellarvue SV102BV f/8.7 LOMO Doublet APO
Stellarvue SV90T f/7 Fluorite
Synta ShortTube 80
Stellarvue SV70ED
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Mike C
sage
Reged: 03/05/08
Posts: 363
Loc: Cornwall, UK
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That's due to the retractable dewhood being in the retracted position. Other similar models have a detachable rather than retractable dew hood.
--------------------
Mike Crowle
http://www.pbase.com/mcrowle/astrophotography
Meade Series 5000 ED Apo 127mm
Celestron C8 SCT (1991 model)
Losmandy G-11; Vixen Super Polaris
Canon EOS 40D (unmodded); Philips SPC-900NC Webcam
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DLB242
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/29/08
Posts: 545
Loc: Pen Argyl, PA
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Quote:
That's due to the retractable dewhood being in the retracted position. Other similar models have a detachable rather than retractable dew hood.
Does your Meade have a retractable dew shield?
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David B
10" f/5 DOB
6" f/8 DOB
Celestron C8
Antares 1529 6" f/6.5 MoonLite Focuser
Orion ShortTube 130mm f/5 Reflector
Stellarvue SV102BV f/8.7 LOMO Doublet APO
Stellarvue SV90T f/7 Fluorite
Synta ShortTube 80
Stellarvue SV70ED
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nirvanix
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/07/07
Posts: 624
Loc: Saskatoon, SK
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Don't buy unless you are certain you can send it back and get a refund. If there is any significant optical error you will not be happy. Each telescope has it's own unique lens that can't be evaluated from a picture of the telescope.
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Scopes: 10" dob, 4" apo, 4" achro
EPs: SPL 3mm 6mm 9mm, UWAN 16mm, SWAN 33mm
Loving-kindness and clear skies to all.
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Mike C
sage
Reged: 03/05/08
Posts: 363
Loc: Cornwall, UK
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Quote:
Quote:
That's due to the retractable dewhood being in the retracted position. Other similar models have a detachable rather than retractable dew hood.
Does your Meade have a retractable dew shield?
Yes, it does.
Regards.
--------------------
Mike Crowle
http://www.pbase.com/mcrowle/astrophotography
Meade Series 5000 ED Apo 127mm
Celestron C8 SCT (1991 model)
Losmandy G-11; Vixen Super Polaris
Canon EOS 40D (unmodded); Philips SPC-900NC Webcam
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