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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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CounterWeight
Postmaster
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Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Palo alto, CA.
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: t.r.]
      #4197762 - 11/19/10 09:36 PM

I think what I wrote here on older posts - and have read others post here on older posts - is that when you receive a TEC the thing is so clear that it looks like they forgot to put the lenses in ! 'Seriozna! I don't know what Yuri and Co. use for coatings... but they appear transparent to a point almost silly.

Takahashi by themselvs are unable to manipulate the $ vs. Yen. That Japanese money is worth more on the world market (by ratio)- I can't do anything either. But they make darn fine scopes and reducers and flatteners (and near anything you'd ever need to combine or modify or accesorize) and finders and BRC's, and MDK's or CDK's whatever the Mewlon are. TEC makes great refractor scopes and flatteners and turrets... and well whatever they decide to make.

All these scopes are really very nice, IMO a pleasure to own or have owned. I think it's important to see for yourself and make judgements as appropriate for the eye that's beholdin'. Your in the realm of folks that really care - and their quality and support reflect that. It's just really nice to 'be there'.


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tboss70
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/25/05

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Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: CounterWeight]
      #4197812 - 11/19/10 10:18 PM

I ordered a new TSA-102 that had significant SA about a year ago. I sent it back and it was replaced. The replacement was a nice scope. Optics were much better.
Not trying to put down Takahashi; just sharing the facts.

Personally if it were me and my money I would be visiting Yuri.


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LLEEGE
True Blue
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Reged: 03/03/05

Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: GaryO]
      #4197814 - 11/19/10 10:20 PM

Quote:

Refractor Forum newbie here. I just received my TEC 140 number 508, ordered in July. Bought it based a lot on the impressive info about this scope on this forum. I couldn't be happier!
Regards,
Gary


Welcome, Gary. I'd love to take a peek through your TEC. I'm sure Tim (t.r.) would too. You should come visit our club's site some time and we could have a collection of a few premium scopes to look through.

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Theodore Mattas
super member


Reged: 11/12/04

Loc: Thessaloniki, Greece
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4197955 - 11/20/10 12:11 AM

Quote:

I guess I don't understand what you mean by "misinformation". All I've done is share facts (and I'll go through them one by one) and my own analysis and purchasing decision based on those facts.





Yes you shared facts....but when you afterwards mixed the facts with your own personal psychological criteria ("I doupt it that the new cells are better than the early ones")...then simply stated you started misinforming...
Even if there were some unhappy (who knows how many)..."misaligned" Takahashi customers in the past, even if the Japanese indeed had to redesign the cells (If I'm not wrong these TOA series scopes are manufactured over a decade now)...there are NO indications that similar problems exist nowadays...so literally speaking when a newbie member reads your posts...immediately has the impression that Takahashi sells products that are very likely to be defective....THAT my friend is called misinformation and has nothing to do with a true "refractor agnostic" guy you claim to be
You have every right to advice a potential 5" refractor buyer to choose the TEC-140, by telling him..."it is lighter, it cools faster, it has 10mm more aperture, it has equal optical quality to the TOA ect ect ect"...what you can't do is spreading "fear" by focusing on problems that even you know that are already solved for good.
When I stated that as a yahoo Tak member I didn't notice any reports about defective TOA cells...I really meant it!
The vast majority of TOA owners have purchased perfect scopes...thus it didn't come to my attention any recent report. I really can't tell if there were such reports in the past...but frankly speaking I don't spend my whole life scanning every single post in Tak Yahoo forums
You also "accused" me of being a "mint green" fan...but the truth is that you can't find even a single post of mine where I devaluate other brands in order to "promote" my "beloved" Takahashi.
I currently own a TOA-130...my experience after many observations is that it is a killer scope...and that's all.
Till now I didn't have the chance to see through any TEC scope. Although the astronomical community here in Greece is big and there are similar local forums like CN I haven't noticed anybody who owns a TEC refractor...I would though certainly be more than happy to check one of these Russian beauties myself

Regards
Teo

--------------------------------------------------
Takahashi TOA-130S
Zeiss Abbe II ortho set + 2X Barlow


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blueman
Photon Catcher
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Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Theodore Mattas]
      #4198076 - 11/20/10 02:40 AM

The TEC scopes are good enough to stand up to the tests of anyone. It is not really necessary to point out the shortfalls of another brand to make them look better. The quality of the TEC is very apparent when you look at them or through them. Yuri makes a fine product which is made right here in the USA and like AstroPhysics, they are both world class.
Blueman


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crazyqban
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 12/16/08

Loc: Miami, Florida
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: blueman]
      #4198137 - 11/20/10 05:12 AM

TECs are awesome scopes. I had a TOA-130F and I really loved it but if I had to do it again I would probably get the TEC as I am a strictly visual observer. A friend of mine had one and we were able to observe with both (TEC 140 & TOA-130F) on a couple of occasions. I would say that the extra 10mm of aperture of the TEC 140 we were able to pull in slightly more detail on Saturn than the TOA-130F. Another friend of mine currently owns a TEC 140 and I am very pleased with the performance of his scope. That all being said, I am an HUGE fan of everything Tak but if you are going for strictly visual instrument I would have to say to go for the TEC, better yet, go for at least a 12" reflector. I sold the TOA-103F and got a 16" F4 Starstucture with Zambuto optics which I will be picking up in two weeks. That's my story, hope it helps.

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crazyqban
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 12/16/08

Loc: Miami, Florida
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: crazyqban]
      #4198141 - 11/20/10 05:23 AM

PS...

I said that I would take the TEC 140 over the TOA-130F but I forgot to mention that I enjoyed some rather spectacular observing sessions with the TOA. Mounted on a Discmounts DM6, this setup was a true joy to use. If it wasn't because I needed the money to fund my new scope I would have kept this setup. At this years WSP I have some very memorable views of Saturn, Omega Centauri, Centaur A, The Double Cluster, M42, M36, M37, M38, M45 and so on. The scope takes on just about whatever magnification you throw at it as long as the seeing conditions are good.


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Hypnotist
sage


Reged: 08/29/10

Loc: San Diego, CA, US
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: crazyqban]
      #4198166 - 11/20/10 06:11 AM

Is the TEC a good photography scope?

I wrote optcorp.com and asked them which scope they'd recommend for me. I was told I should stick with the TOA 130. Why would someone tell me that even though I notice that the majority of you here on CN support the TEC 140?

Bart


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andydj5xp
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 05/27/04

Loc: 52.269 N/10.571 E
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: CounterWeight]
      #4198168 - 11/20/10 06:18 AM

Quote:

I think what I wrote here on older posts - and have read others post here on older posts - is that when you receive a TEC the thing is so clear that it looks like they forgot to put the lenses in ! 'Seriozna! I don't know what Yuri and Co. use for coatings... but they appear transparent to a point almost silly.




After taking delivery of my TEC140 in October 2005 I immediately noticed the difference in reflectivity between my APM/TMB 115/805 (also a VERY good scope) and the TEC140. The TEC lens really seemed not to be there.

Discussing this point - amongst others - with Yuri he told me that TEC uses a special very expensive coating from a firm available only for US residing firms like TEC and AP. This coating normally is applied to military gear only. Thus the restriction to American based manufacturers.

Andreas


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Hypnotist
sage


Reged: 08/29/10

Loc: San Diego, CA, US
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: andydj5xp]
      #4198181 - 11/20/10 06:32 AM

What makes the "invisible" lens so special?

Bart

Edited by Hypnotist (11/20/10 06:33 AM)


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andydj5xp
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 05/27/04

Loc: 52.269 N/10.571 E
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Hypnotist]
      #4198205 - 11/20/10 07:11 AM

Quote:

What makes the "invisible" lens so special?

Bart




The "invisible" lens has enhanced contrast due to less scatter. In addition "invisibility" means that all parts of the spectrum are equally well transfered through the lens. Of course, the differences between high level scopes are not large.

Andreas


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gillmj24
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Reged: 12/06/05

Loc: PA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: andydj5xp]
      #4198219 - 11/20/10 07:30 AM

If you look on TEC's web site irlt says the two places to buy a new one are TEC themselves and Anacortes. So if I am answering the phones at OPT I would also probably steer you to a brand that my store carried. That's not being a bad vendor that's just life.

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RAKing
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Reged: 12/28/07

Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: gillmj24]
      #4198230 - 11/20/10 07:45 AM

Quote:

If you look on TEC's web site irlt says the two places to buy a new one are TEC themselves and Anacortes. So if I am answering the phones at OPT I would also probably steer you to a brand that my store carried. That's not being a bad vendor that's just life.




TEC's web site needs an update. OPT is now a TEC vendor, too.

I've owned Taks and loved them, but I prefer the focuser on the TEC and I wouldn't trade my TEC 140 for a TOA 130. I CAN tell the difference - 10mm does matter!

My .02,

Ron


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Hypnotist
sage


Reged: 08/29/10

Loc: San Diego, CA, US
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: gillmj24]
      #4198237 - 11/20/10 07:50 AM

Quote:

If you look on TEC's web site irlt says the two places to buy a new one are TEC themselves and Anacortes. So if I am answering the phones at OPT I would also probably steer you to a brand that my store carried. That's not being a bad vendor that's just life.





But OPT has the TEC 140 in stock (they don't have any other scopes by TEC however). That's at least what their website says. Now why do you think my contact at OPT supports the TOA 130 instead of the TEC 140?

Bart


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gillmj24
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Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: RAKing]
      #4198238 - 11/20/10 07:51 AM

Really? Interesting as I quickly searched opt and didnt find the Tec 140 only cases for it etc.

In my light polluted sky 130 to 140 side by side (different brands though) doesn't have the same WOW as 8" to 10" if I may refer to SCT's briefly and in passing

I was worried they were giving less than 100 percent impartial advice. I am glad that is not the case.

If you can't figure it out from many pages of posts then the answer to toa130 vs tec140 is......



Wait for it.........






Personal choice! You can't go wrong with either. No matter which one you get I suspect you'll love it and then two weeks afterwards when the next "versus" thread appears you will defend your buying decision to the death!!!

Edited by Joseph Gillman (11/20/10 08:01 AM)


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luck
sage


Reged: 10/31/08

Loc: Earth
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: gillmj24]
      #4198265 - 11/20/10 08:22 AM

Both scopes have good records and have proven them self. It all comes down to personal preference. The difference has been already discussed, like weight, color correction, cool down, etc...

Personally I doubt the 10mm difference would matter. At least not to my eyes If you really want to be wowed go bigger, like 150 or 160 and don't turn back.

What I have picked up in these and other treads is for visual go with the TEC-140 and for CCD imaging go with the TOA130. I would be happy with either. So, if one of you are not happy with their TEC or TOA, just sent it to me and I promise that I will take good care of it and it will see a lot of starlight

If portability is an issue one could go with a 120mm.

Edited by luck (11/20/10 06:48 PM)


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LLEEGE
True Blue
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Reged: 03/03/05

Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Hypnotist]
      #4198268 - 11/20/10 08:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

If you look on TEC's web site irlt says the two places to buy a new one are TEC themselves and Anacortes. So if I am answering the phones at OPT I would also probably steer you to a brand that my store carried. That's not being a bad vendor that's just life.





But OPT has the TEC 140 in stock (they don't have any other scopes by TEC however). That's at least what their website says. Now why do you think my contact at OPT supports the TOA 130 instead of the TEC 140?

Bart


I seriously doubt OPT has a TEC140 in stock. OPT is a good outfit but their sales people are on commission so the rep was trying to help his cause by recommending the TOA. Or maybe he has one and is a brand loyalist as well.

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johnnyha
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Reged: 11/12/06

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Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: LLEEGE]
      #4198435 - 11/20/10 10:21 AM

I looked earlier and was surprised to see that OPT indeed has the TEC140 marked IN STOCK. OPT is excellent at keeping inventory and when they say something is IN STOCK you can bank on it.

Bart I would suspect your contact at OPT recommended the TOA because he has a bias towards Tak as clearly many do, or he felt you were looking for an imaging scope, or he had eight TOAs and only two TECs. (As I said, OPT is VERY GOOD at keeping inventory.) Call again today you will probably get a different salesman who recommends TEC.

But who you MIGHT SHOULD ALSO be listening to is the people who have OWNED the TOA130 and say if they could do it over again they would get the TEC140, including me, Sergio, Jim, and a number of others in this thread alone. Why would THEY recommend a TEC140 over the TOA130? We aren't salesman, let's just say that. And we all have high praise for the TOA130... But we are not dedicated imagers either. And by "imaging" I don't mean hanging a Canon 5D on the focuser with a T-ring, I mean dedicated large chip CCD imaging that requires 90mm clear aperture and adapters and coolers and specialized filters and flatteners, oh my!

Honestly you can't go wrong either way, anyway.


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Theodore Mattas]
      #4198447 - 11/20/10 10:27 AM

Where did I say: "I doubt it that the new cells are better than the early ones"?

Actually, I said: "I suspect that Takahashi has adjusted its design to address this oversight in the original design, and the new ones are more robust."

Seems quite the opposite of the statement that you have attributed to me.

Putting the fabrications aside, my point is if you don't image (i.e., don't need the better correction), why take the risk of buying a scope model that has a history of alignment issues due to its demanding OG design based on the hope or assumption that the the updated design is adequate for all purposes.

Then there is the 2-day air shipping requirement...I can guarantee that all of my scopes take as much of a thumping being transported to and from observing sites as UPS or Fed Ex are likely to give them. If you want the US importer to stand behind the lens cell alignment you have to ship via a more expensive method that reduces the risk of what? Yep, of misalignment due to rough handling in transport!

So based on indicia that there could remain a risk of misalignment, the history of past alignment problems, and my personal lack of need of the extra color correction, my *opinion* is that the TOA design carries with it more risk for my intended use than other designs. Further, my opinion is that for others with similar observing patterns, the same analysis has merit, which is why I shared it.

You're right, you've been fairly balanced in describing the two designs. However, I believe that you've been unfairly critical of my opinions, which I've substantiated with facts, and the only fact you've offered in response is that you've not heard of misaligned OG elements. From that lone data point you have have opined that (a) the design must be robust and is no more fragile than other designs, and (b) that I am therefore offering "misinformation", going so far as to fabricate a statement and attribute it to me. That's where I smell the mint of minty green.

As for misinformation, neither you nor I "know" that the problem has been solved for good. So tell me, who's actually spreading misinformation? I think you don't like the opinion (it frightens you), so rather than considering it as potentially being valid, you're in denial going so far as to ignore inconvenient facts and fabricate statements that I never made.

Cheers,

Jim

Edited by jrbarnett (11/20/10 10:41 AM)


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

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Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 [Re: andydj5xp]
      #4198463 - 11/20/10 10:33 AM

With respect to TEC's coatings, the coatings on the 140 are actually more complex than those on the larger instruments. The 140s get 7-layer multicoatings. The 160s and up have 5-layer multicoatings. I don't know why for sure, but suspect that the risk of roughness or other ills due to misapplied coatings goes up with a larger piece of glass. I recall that D&G used to say that they would coat larger lenses only at the buyer's risk.

Regards,

Jim


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