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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Hypnotist]
      #4198495 - 11/20/10 10:53 AM

Difference in margin?

OPT is a middleman.

Salesman's greater experience with Tak than TEC (I bought my Mewlon from OPT, and the salesman I worked with really liked Tak)?

He's an imager?

Could be any or all of the above, or something else. Ask him.

Regards,

Jim


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SteveC
Post Laureate
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Reged: 06/15/06

Loc: Sunshine State & Ocean State
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: johnnyha]
      #4198531 - 11/20/10 11:09 AM

More like Bumblee Bee solid white tuna vs. Starkist.
or
Hanes boxers vs. Fruit of the Loom


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johnnyha
Postmaster
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Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Hypnotist]
      #4198546 - 11/20/10 11:17 AM

Quote:

I would like to use either scope with my 5D Mark II. Which company has accessories that are more available? Which are cheaper? Which of the two scopes would you recommend with that criteria?




Bart I realized no one had answered your question. All you need to image with any scope and the Canon5D is this T-ring adapter which has a nosepiece that fits right into the focuser. Focus telescope until the Canon comes to focus. Ready for action. You probably want one of these remote timers as well. Using this criteria neither scope is favored over the other IMO, and you should get stunning images. You may end up wantimg a flattener to clean up the edges in either scope, and a PowerMate or a reducer to change the focal length.


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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
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Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Hypnotist]
      #4198551 - 11/20/10 11:19 AM

Pure imaging...the TOA. A mix of imaging and visual, the TEC. The big Feathertouch focuser is a work of art. If you've never used one, you will be stunned at the extreme quality. Add that to the fine optics of the TEC and you have a tremendous visual scope.

But if you're going to image exclusively, get the Tak.

David


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CounterWeight
Postmaster
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Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Palo alto, CA.
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: SteveC]
      #4198598 - 11/20/10 11:45 AM

Hmmm, asking why a vendor would recommend one over the other, I'd say to ask them and not me. Also would ask their permission before (if) posting their response here by company logo. At least then we could address any information from our perspective. Here I see a possible issue with vendor / manufacturer relations so please tread thoughtfully / carefully?

Only 'outsider' thing I can think of is that Tak does offer 'dedicated' Barlows (1.6x) focal reducer(s), flatteners, connecting rings, for the TOA. The Tak scopes are systems with lots of accesories designed to work together. Here TEC is very different. In my queries on the TEC yahoo group for focal reducers I was steered to A-P stuff. Nothing wrong with that , but it is a big defference between the 2 manufacturers.


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Hypnotist
sage


Reged: 08/29/10

Loc: San Diego, CA, US
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: johnnyha]
      #4198601 - 11/20/10 11:47 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I would like to use either scope with my 5D Mark II. Which company has accessories that are more available? Which are cheaper? Which of the two scopes would you recommend with that criteria?




Bart I realized no one had answered your question. All you need to image with any scope and the Canon5D is this T-ring adapter which has a nosepiece that fits right into the focuser. Focus telescope until the Canon comes to focus. Ready for action. You probably want one of these remote timers as well. Using this criteria neither scope is favored over the other IMO, and you should get stunning images.





If I "only" have a "simple" Canon 5D Mark II (and not a sophisicated CCD) would there be a difference between both scopes (in image quality)?

Don't forget I'll spend at least 50% of my time viewing.

Thanks
Bart


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LLEEGE
True Blue
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Reged: 03/03/05

Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Hypnotist]
      #4198631 - 11/20/10 12:05 PM

Either would require a flattener with the large sensor in the 5DMII. Both make dedicated flatteners for their scopes.

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johnnyha
Postmaster
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Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Hypnotist]
      #4198647 - 11/20/10 12:14 PM

I doubt there would be a difference in image quality between the two with a DSLR, the greater aperture of the TEC will probably equal out with the ever so slightly better photo color correction of the Tak. I can't say though from any personal experience but a quick glance around google images shows just simply stunning images produced by your camera with even small ED refractors, so.... The tracking accuracy of your mount will probably have a much bigger effect on the quality of the final image, not to mention the atmospheric seeing and accurate focus, digital processing, etc.

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Tamiji Homma
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: California, USA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Hypnotist]
      #4198653 - 11/20/10 12:19 PM

Hi Bart,

You might want to check out this book "The 100 Best Astrophotography Targets" by Ruben Kier, Practical Astronomy Series Springer. There are many photographs taken wtih TEC 140 f/7 in the book.

Link to Amazon

Tammy


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lionel
sage


Reged: 08/12/07

Loc: Delaware
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4198733 - 11/20/10 12:59 PM

Takahashi has had a policy of 2-day air shipping with all their scopes for as long as I can remember, cassegrains and refractors. It's not limited to their refractors or specifically to the TOA series, so I think it's wrong to use that as a reason to question the robustness of the TOA series.

Lionel


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edif300
super member


Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: Basque Country
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: johnnyha]
      #4198759 - 11/20/10 01:21 PM

Hi Bart,

TOA-130F (w/4inch focuser and 67FF) is the telescope for astrophotography.

For pure visual use, between TOA-130 and TEC140, I think you must go for TEC. (My choice for me would be different, I would make choice the TOA). Why TEC for you? Some minor advantage on visual use for TEC due different desing criteria (except better color correction of the TOA). But mainly because there is not available a Tak TSA-140 .

For 50 50, I think depends on what you will do in future. If you have clear plans for keeping in DSLR, go for TEC. If you do not clear and maybe could change the plans to ccd, go for TOA.

This is my opinion about your doubt.


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Hypnotist
sage


Reged: 08/29/10

Loc: San Diego, CA, US
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: edif300]
      #4199005 - 11/20/10 04:07 PM

What would you suggest if I don't know what I want to buy in the future?

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Moondust
member


Reged: 11/14/06

Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: t.r.]
      #4199100 - 11/20/10 05:01 PM






I agree with your observation 100%. I had the privilage of owning the AP 130 and AP 140 at the same time. The 10mm difference in glass was obvious at a single glance. I sold the 130. Surprisingly the gap seemed much narrower between my AP 155 and the 140.



I'll stand by my observations...10mm's difference CAN be seen at first glance. I never said it was a HUGE diferrence. Don't forget that on a so-so night, even a 90mm and a 150mm can apear to show the same level of detail...check out some of TODD GROSS's reports.
As for recommendations...I'd go with the TEC140 again anytime.




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Theodore Mattas
super member


Reged: 11/12/04

Loc: Thessaloniki, Greece
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: CounterWeight]
      #4199115 - 11/20/10 05:05 PM

My my...an Optcorp salesman "dared" recommend the TOA-130 over the TEC-140 to a client...and panic is widely spread over the forum
Analysis, and then even more analysis about the salesman's dark intensions and the possibility of an international conspiracy against Yuri Petrunin
There is you know a chance (just a tiny one) that the poor salesman simply believes (as many other do globally) that Takahashi produces better scopes than TEC... please don't shoot him for that

Regards from Greece
Teo

---------------------------------------------------
Takahashi TOA-130S
Zeiss Abbe II ortho set + 2X Barlow


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luck
sage


Reged: 10/31/08

Loc: Earth
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Moondust]
      #4199174 - 11/20/10 05:25 PM

Moondust, please keep in mind that the scopes (AP130/140) that you have compared the focal-point differ by 231mm in favor of AP140. Compared to the TEC/TOA, 20mm focal-point difference in favor of the TOA. The focal-point can play a role in comparing these scopes.

AP 130 : F6.3 (819mm)
AP 140 : F7.5 (1050mm)

TOA130 : F7.7 (1000mm)
TEC140 : F7 (980mm)


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blueman
Photon Catcher
*****

Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Theodore Mattas]
      #4199228 - 11/20/10 05:54 PM

I would like to ask exactly by what factors are the TAK better scopes than the TEC?
Is the focuser better?
Is the tube assembly of better quality?
Does it have a superior cell design?
Is it due to it weighing more?
Better support and easier to get repair?
Really, I just wonder what makes the TAK better than a TEC? Personally, I think they are fairly well matched for performance and the quality of either scope is on par with the other.
Blueman


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blueman
Photon Catcher
*****

Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: luck]
      #4199241 - 11/20/10 05:57 PM

Hello Luck,
Your points are well taken and you are correct in you opinion.
Blueman

Moondust, please keep in mind that the scopes (AP130/140) that you have compared the focal-point differ by 231mm in favor of AP140. Compared to the TEC/TOA, 20mm focal-point difference in favor of the TOA. The focal-point can play a role in comparing these scopes.

AP 130 : F6.3 (819mm)
AP 140 : F7.5 (1050mm)
TOA130 : F7.7 (1000mm)
TEC140 : F7 (980mm)


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Daniel Mounsey
Vendor (Woodland Hills)
*****

Reged: 06/12/02

Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Hypnotist]
      #4199259 - 11/20/10 06:08 PM

Quote:

Hi,

I'm interested in buying a Takahashi TOA 130, for viewing but also for imaging (I have a Canon EOS 5D Mark II). I hear Takahashis are very well known for their quality (studiness, accuracy etc.). Now yesterday I was reading some stuff on it and people mentioned they'd rather have a TEC 140 which is also good in quality, but seemingly not quite up to Tak standards. That left me debating on if I wanted a Tak or a TEC. What do you think? (I've never really heard a complaint about the TOA 130, except that it's rather heavy!)

I'd appreciate your honest opinion!

Thanks and clear skies

Bart




Hi Bart,

I will share some thoughts here for you. There's a slogan that goes like this.... TEC TAK TEC TAK TEC TAK TEC TAK. Those two names alone sum up my apo fantasies completely. With that said I understand most observers desire for the added aperture but I will share a couple of experiences that may help you. If imaging is your biggest concern, the Tak may be the wiser choice in this particular case because the focuser on the Tak is super solid and Tak does have several imaging accessories dedicated to the TOA130. The 4" focuser also has a solid camera angle adjuster. Also, with regard to imaging, the TOA130 is completely color free. It can be mounted on a modified Losmandy G11 or an EM200 for example with little or no problems.

And another note with regard to comparing the two scopes visually. I love both, something that's really important that observers should know. The star test is a truly amazing and mesmerizing verification of the optics real identity. In my tests half way down this PAGE which I requested to be locked down, I had two air spaced triplets of the exact same make and brand. One was 102mm while its bigger brother was 115mm. Despite the difference in aperture, the 102mm actually outperformed its brother in every single regard. During a closer inspections of the star test in each model, the results were 100% confirmed. Also, in another test in this same review, another 102mm air spaced triplet, actually trumped a 110mm oil spaced triplet in every regard. Contrast crispness, clarity, overall picture. It will remain burned into my soul.

Now, as ironic as this may sound at first, the point of my sharing this is that if I had nothing else to go on, I'd just go with the extra 10mm aperture and just hope for the best BUT there are two things to consider. 10mm isn't going to make any difference for imaging. There are other factors that out weigh that. The other thing is that if the person you are buying the telescope from has lots of experience and has had a chance to test the scope and you truly trust that persons judgement, then I would go with the model that's been carefully scrutinized by its seller. We're actually talking about A+, A and A- here but if it really means that much to you, then that's how I'd choose because 10mm isn't enough to close the gap that easily. Perhaps weight may be a consideration, but either model is avery nice.

Evaluating telescopes in the field can be very time consuming, but I know right now two telescopes in the 4" aperture class that are absolutely state of the art and two different people own them. If I really wanted to purchase another 4", I would ask either one of these people to sell me one of theirs before I went searching. All I ever do is test as many models as I can when possible and make notes on where the exceptionally great models go, so that in the event I want one, I can check there first. Good luck.


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Daniel Mounsey
Vendor (Woodland Hills)
*****

Reged: 06/12/02

Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Daniel Mounsey]
      #4199263 - 11/20/10 06:11 PM

I would like to have done more testing HERE but I need to make more effort. THIS is also extremely important.

Edited by Daniel Mounsey (11/20/10 06:14 PM)


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luck
sage


Reged: 10/31/08

Loc: Earth
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Daniel Mounsey]
      #4199313 - 11/20/10 06:43 PM

It's good to hear from you Daniel!!!

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