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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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Daniel Mounsey
Vendor (Woodland Hills)
*****

Reged: 06/12/02

Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: luck]
      #4199314 - 11/20/10 06:44 PM

Thank you. It's a pleasure

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t.r.
Post Laureate
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Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Daniel Mounsey]
      #4199424 - 11/20/10 07:42 PM

"Despite the difference in aperture, the 102mm actually outperformed its brother in every single regard. During a closer inspections of the star test in each model, the results were 100% confirmed. Also, in another test in this same review, another 102mm air spaced triplet, actually trumped a 110mm oil spaced triplet in every regard. Contrast crispness, clarity, overall picture. It will remain burned into my soul."(DM)

I made a similar claim in the past...and was BURNED AT THE STAKE!
I believe I even used the same words,contrast, crispness,clarity...Thanks for verifying that it DOES happen.

Edited by t.r. (11/20/10 07:45 PM)


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FaronD
sage


Reged: 03/25/10

Loc: Richmond Hill, Ontario
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4199509 - 11/20/10 08:27 PM

Hi everyone, I read this forum daily and made my latest scope purchase based on information I gathered here and other sites. This site is a wealth of information for someone looking to purchase a new scope. The opinions here carry a lot of weight since many of us don't have a selection of premium scopes at our disposal to compare. I narrowed my selection down to the Tak TOA-130 or the TEC140. A used Tak TOA-130s was posted on one of the forums at the time I was ready to buy. I purchased it and couldn't be happier with the decision. The seller was located in California and I had it shipped to Canada via standard UPS shipping. It was packed in the original triple Tak boxes and it arrived in perfect condition, including the collimation. I just wanted to point out that this is a 2005 TOA-130 and it survived a journey, not just a ride down a bumpy road. Check out the path it took and how many times it was handled. I'm sure the package would have been tossed a few times and like I said the collimation looks great.
Bart, you may want to consider the 4" focuser if you go with the Tak. Your 5D has a full frame sensor and it's quite possible the combo may vignette with the 2.7" focuser. Maybe someone else can chime in who's tried this combo.

Regards Faron

CONCORD, ON, CA 08/11/2010 11:31 DELIVERED
08/11/2010 5:34 OUT FOR DELIVERY
CONCORD, ON, CA 06/11/2010 0:20 ARRIVAL SCAN
WINDSOR, ON, CA 05/11/2010 20:06 DEPARTURE SCAN
05/11/2010 12:47 REGISTERED WITH CLEARING AGENCY
05/11/2010 12:15 PACKAGE DATA PROCESSED BY BROKERAGE. WAITING FOR CLEARANCE / RELEASED BY CLEARING AGENCY. NOW IN-TRANSIT FOR DELIVERY
05/11/2010 10:56 REGISTERED WITH CLEARING AGENCY / SHIPMENT SUBMITTED TO CLEARING AGENCY
05/11/2010 1:59 IMPORT SCAN
05/11/2010 0:19 ARRIVAL SCAN
FREDERICTON, NB, CA 04/11/2010 21:21 UPS IS AWAITING PAYMENT AUTHORIZATION FROM THE RECEIVER
MAUMEE, OH, US 04/11/2010 18:49 DEPARTURE SCAN
04/11/2010 17:56 ARRIVAL SCAN
HODGKINS, IN, US 04/11/2010 13:22 DEPARTURE SCAN
04/11/2010 13:09 ARRIVAL SCAN
HODGKINS, IL, US 04/11/2010 12:28 DEPARTURE SCAN
04/11/2010 9:46 ARRIVAL SCAN
LOS ANGELES, CA, US 02/11/2010 3:53 DEPARTURE SCAN
WINDSOR, ON, CA 02/11/2010 6:34 PACKAGE DATA PROCESSED BY BROKERAGE. WAITING FOR CLEARANCE
LOS ANGELES, CA, US 02/11/2010 0:17 ARRIVAL SCAN
SAN BERNARDINO, CA, US 01/11/2010 23:02 DEPARTURE SCAN
01/11/2010 22:07 ORIGIN SCAN
US 30/10/2010 18:05 BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED

Tracking results provided by UPS: 20/11/2010 15:48 ET


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Daniel Mounsey
Vendor (Woodland Hills)
*****

Reged: 06/12/02

Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: FaronD]
      #4199534 - 11/20/10 08:40 PM

I think you made the correct choice for your particular situation.

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: lionel]
      #4199539 - 11/20/10 08:43 PM

Back when I purchased an FS-60C and FS-78, there was no such requirement.

Here's the 2001 page:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010508153500/http://www.takahashiamerica.com/

Note, there's no mention of air shipping.

The TOAs arrived in 2002.

In August, 2002, still no mention of air shipping:

http://web.archive.org/web/20020802085000/http://www.takahashiamerica.com/

In September 2003, however, look what we have:

http://web.archive.org/web/20031206100709/takahashiamerica.com/main_dealers.htm

"To maintain a quality performance level expected of Takahashi products, we ship all optical tube assemblies (OTA's) via air freight to our dealers and customers. Because shipping rates have increased and while service quality among shippers has decreased, WE ENCOURAGE CUSTOMERS TO REQUEST AIR SHIPPING OF THESE INSTRUMENTS FROM THEIR DEALER. The additional price for this service is not substantial and will help ensure that your Takahashi equipment will perform to its designed specifications."

So it is false that there's been an air shipment recommendation forever. It is a fact that the air shipping recommendation coincides with volume shipment of the then-new TOA line.

Regards,

Jim

Edited by jrbarnett (11/20/10 10:25 PM)


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Daniel Mounsey
Vendor (Woodland Hills)
*****

Reged: 06/12/02

Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: t.r.]
      #4199541 - 11/20/10 08:44 PM

Quote:

"Despite the difference in aperture, the 102mm actually outperformed its brother in every single regard. During a closer inspections of the star test in each model, the results were 100% confirmed. Also, in another test in this same review, another 102mm air spaced triplet, actually trumped a 110mm oil spaced triplet in every regard. Contrast crispness, clarity, overall picture. It will remain burned into my soul."(DM)

I made a similar claim in the past...and was BURNED AT THE STAKE!
I believe I even used the same words,contrast, crispness,clarity...Thanks for verifying that it DOES happen.





hmmmm, that's a bit odd, we'll just have to see about that.


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Mike Clemens
Frozen to Eyepiece
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Reged: 11/26/05

Loc: Alaska, USA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Daniel Mounsey]
      #4199676 - 11/20/10 09:58 PM Attachment (67 downloads)

> Is the TEC a good photography scope?

I'm super happy with my TEC200. It surely has worse color correction than a TEC140 also.


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Cosmosphil
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 02/04/05

Loc: So. California
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Hypnotist]
      #4199680 - 11/20/10 10:00 PM

Bart,

A 6 page response for only a two day old post is quite something. I looks like you might have started a mini flame war.
You can see how many fans of both these companies products there are here at CN and how much they love these scopes.
Both companies and their products are legendary.

I faced a similar choice a couple of years ago.
Asked the same questions. The difference is that I don't do any imaging. I've been a visual observer for 35 yrs.

I think the question of 10mm increase has been put to rest.
Yes, it makes a difference visually. I spent an evening with a couple of friends viewing Jupiter. The other scope was an excellent example of an ES 127. The latest various incarnations of air spaced triplets from Chima are suprising in their performance. My friend is very happy with his sample. Still, to all of us, there was no question that more detail was seen and more color gradiants in the belts and zones were detected in the TEC. Period.
So, I can't imagine the addtl 3mm making all those differences go away. I'm just talking about resolution increase here. The magnifications used were between 200 and 300x. Seeing seemed just above 1 arc second so the scopes were not being limited by the atmosphere. The moons were individually sized with slight color differences.

Now, my decision was based on an visual observer's needs only. The TEC is lighter, less expensive, has a stunning focuser and yes, an extra 10mm. For me, it became something of a slam dunk. For you because of the imaging angle, the TOA my fit the bill just a bit better. I have not had a chance to used a TOA yet so I can't comment on the color correction other than to say that yes, the TOAs seem to be designed from the ground up for imaging and the TECs are definately designed for the visual observer.
I'll tell you, I'm so impressed with the TEC. So far, it is the finest optical instrument visually inch per inch I have ever used. So much so that I'm already on the list for Yuri's 2nd run of TEC 110s. The lens disease is deep, long lasting and very expensive to cure!


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Mike Clemens
Frozen to Eyepiece
*****

Reged: 11/26/05

Loc: Alaska, USA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Cosmosphil]
      #4199729 - 11/20/10 10:20 PM Attachment (70 downloads)

Here's those lesser TEC 5-layer coatings. The 7 layer coatings must be really something. My flash is directly pointed at them.

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deprofundis
member
*****

Reged: 10/12/10

Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Cosmosphil]
      #4199739 - 11/20/10 10:24 PM

Quote:

I think the question of 10mm increase has been put to rest.
Yes, it makes a difference visually. I spent an evening with a couple of friends viewing Jupiter. The other scope was an excellent example of an ES 127. The latest various incarnations of air spaced triplets from Chima are suprising in their performance. My friend is very happy with his sample. Still, to all of us, there was no question that more detail was seen and more color gradiants in the belts and zones were detected in the TEC. Period.
So, I can't imagine the addtl 3mm making all those differences go away. I'm just talking about resolution increase here. The magnifications used were between 200 and 300x. Seeing seemed just above 1 arc second so the scopes were not being limited by the atmosphere. The moons were individually sized with slight color differences.




How can you be sure the differences were due to the extra 13mm as opposed to coatings, different optical design, better quality control in the TEC, etc? I'm not doubting that the extra 13mm makes a difference, but I would expect it to be very subtle.


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gnowellsct
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/24/09

Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: deprofundis]
      #4199927 - 11/21/10 12:23 AM

Leaving aside the aperture, cost, and performance issues, the main advantage of Takahashi is that it is not a one-man shop. The corporation appears to have continuity. A one-man shop is susceptible to the vagaries of health, retirement, and all sorts of things.

All that said, however, some of the most famous names in astronomy are one-man shops. TEC, Losmandy, Stellarvue, AP, all one man shops. Unclear what kind of continuity there is if you buy in. I own a Losmandy and an AP mount so I haven't let the one-man shop syndrome stop me from buying in to good equipment. But I do think Takahashi is likely to be producing excellent refractors fifty years from now. I'm not sure TEC and AP will be doing so, but if AP is producing refractors in fifty years, the line will be 250 years long....

regards
Greg N


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Mike Clemens]
      #4199948 - 11/21/10 12:44 AM



I was trying to get some reflection off the objective in this shot. You can see a bit at the edge of the cell opposite the camera.

Regards,

Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: gnowellsct]
      #4199950 - 11/21/10 12:46 AM

Wow, now that Clark is dead, I guess they had better scrap the Lick refractor.

Regards,

Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4199956 - 11/21/10 12:49 AM

Here's one where the camera elected to focus not on the objective, but rather on the plug in the focuser at the bottom of the tube assembly.



- Jim


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SteveC
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Reged: 06/15/06

Loc: Sunshine State & Ocean State
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Mike Clemens]
      #4199966 - 11/21/10 01:01 AM

Quote:

> Is the TEC a good photography scope?

I'm super happy with my TEC200. It surely has worse color correction than a TEC140 also.




Whoa Mike, there's something wrong with your scope. The left left side of that galaxy is a little droopy. Did you have your FF & field straighten outiner installed?


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johnnyha
Postmaster
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Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4200008 - 11/21/10 01:55 AM

Is THAT the plug that comes with the TEC? Are you kidding? Have you seen the Tak focuser plug? It is literally a work of Art. (Literally, his name is Art, he's from Houston.) Not only that it weighs .07 ounces LESS than the TEC plug. Game, set, match Tak TOA130! OMG, can you say, "dealbreaker"?

Lock this thread, we're done. Pshew!






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lionel
sage


Reged: 08/12/07

Loc: Delaware
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4200054 - 11/21/10 02:59 AM

Yup. Seven years is about as long as I have been following Takahashi products reasonably closely. And the reason the shipping requirement is placed on their reflectors and cassegrains? Obviously a red herring to divert attention from the fact that it's a policy really needed for the TOA's.

Sorry but I still think you are reaching with no evidence to relate the 2-day shipping requirement specifically to the TOA.

Lionel


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Daniel Mounsey
Vendor (Woodland Hills)
*****

Reged: 06/12/02

Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Cosmosphil]
      #4200061 - 11/21/10 03:13 AM

Quote:



I spent an evening with a couple of friends viewing Jupiter. The other scope was an excellent example of an ES 127. The latest various incarnations of air spaced triplets from Chima are suprising in their performance. My friend is very happy with his sample. Still, to all of us, there was no question that more detail was seen and more color gradiants in the belts and zones were detected in the TEC. Period.




Hi phil,

On a brief note I can understand how you came to those conclusions but just to make things fair in this case, even with a good sample of the ES127, it's important to mention that you are comparing a mass produced import to a world class telescope, so I would expect to see what you did. When I spoke of the differences in aperture between a 102mm and 115mm, they were both world class telescopes using some of the finest glass available. This is by now means meant to bad mouth Explore Scientific in fact I endorsed the ES127 for several months worth of ads in S&T magazine.


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Daniel Mounsey
Vendor (Woodland Hills)
*****

Reged: 06/12/02

Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Mike Clemens]
      #4200063 - 11/21/10 03:19 AM

Quote:

Here's those lesser TEC 5-layer coatings. The 7 layer coatings must be really something. My flash is directly pointed at them.




Mike,
The coatings are one of the things that have always amazed me about the TEC's. I couldn't even see my own reflection in them.


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RTLR 12
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Reged: 12/04/08

Loc: The Great Pacific NorthWest
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: LLEEGE]
      #4200073 - 11/21/10 04:16 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

If you look on TEC's web site irlt says the two places to buy a new one are TEC themselves and Anacortes. So if I am answering the phones at OPT I would also probably steer you to a brand that my store carried. That's not being a bad vendor that's just life.





But OPT has the TEC 140 in stock (they don't have any other scopes by TEC however). That's at least what their website says. Now why do you think my contact at OPT supports the TOA 130 instead of the TEC 140?

Bart


I seriously doubt OPT has a TEC140 in stock. OPT is a good outfit but their sales people are on commission so the rep was trying to help his cause by recommending the TOA. Or maybe he has one and is a brand loyalist as well.




Just to put this to rest, OPT does in fact have a TEC 140 in stock. I placed my hands on the TEC 140 Saturday afternoon. It is set up on their showroom floor.

Stan


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