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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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WarrenS
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Reged: 03/04/08

Loc: Orange County New York
Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real?
      #4912685 - 11/12/11 07:48 PM

I'm not in the market for anything costing more than a few hundred bucks right now but I still peruse the refractor section of Amart every now and then. Much to my astonishment there's a listing for a 7" AP refractor for $35,000! $35,000 buys a BMW, maybe a nice condo in todays real estate market, maybe a 24" RC complete with observatory and a top of the line CCD camera! Am I missing something or this ludicrous? I realize it's an Astro Physics, but it's still a 7" telescope. Oh, and the buyer pays shipping. Roland must be laughing his @#$ off right now. Gonna watch this one to see if it ever sells and if so to who.

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pstarr
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Reged: 09/17/04

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: WarrenS]
      #4912715 - 11/12/11 08:04 PM

It's only worth 35 grand to someone who is willing to pay it. Even if it had the most accurate lens ever made, it's still only 7" and limited by that to what it can show.

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JIMZ7
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Reged: 10/22/05

Loc: S.E.Michigan near DTW
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: WarrenS]
      #4912732 - 11/12/11 08:13 PM

I saw that ad also,but I can't find it now. I did see a Astro Physics 8" for $18,000. For that much money you can get a large dob. for sure with money left over for a good used vehicle.

-------------------
Jim

Bosma 4" f/9.8 refractor-SkyWatcher EQ-2
U.O.24mm Konig-1, GSO 15mm Superview
Minolta 10x50mm SWA, Jason 7x35mm UWA


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Paul G
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Loc: Freedonia
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: WarrenS]
      #4912856 - 11/12/11 09:43 PM

There were only a dozen made, and at least two have sold at that price. It will appreciate in value when Roland retires, that BMW will eventually be worth nothing. There's a Traveler + 400 GTO package for $10,000 listed, too. It is what it is.

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mikey cee
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: JIMZ7]
      #4912866 - 11/12/11 09:54 PM

Quote:

I saw that ad also,but I can't find it now. I did see a Astro Physics 8" for $18,000. For that much money you can get a large dob. for sure with money left over for a good used vehicle.

-------------------
Jim

Bosma 4" f/9.8 refractor-SkyWatcher EQ-2
U.O.24mm Konig-1, GSO 15mm Superview
Minolta 10x50mm SWA, Jason 7x35mm UWA


Well one thing is for certain you'll see much better than a large glob through a large Dob! Mike

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Illinois
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Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: near Dixon, Illinois USA
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: mikey cee]
      #4912880 - 11/12/11 10:08 PM

35,000 dollars for 7" refractor .... no thanks! I see some a lot more than 35,000 dollars if you check out large refractors in Scope City website! S & T magazine Jan. 2004 Astronomics sell TMB 10" f9 refractor for $39,000! But also selling 12", 14" and 20" but prices on request! I wondered is how much the cost is TMB 20"? Thats half size of the world largest refractor!

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skyward_eyes
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Reged: 12/12/06

Loc: California
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: WarrenS]
      #4912885 - 11/12/11 10:11 PM

The AP180 f/7 EDF is one of the rarest telescopes to come out of Astro-Physics. With only about a dozen ever made it is truly one of the most coveted scopes for AP collectors. Now is it work $35,000? I think its a bit high actually, especially in this economy. One could buy a gorgeous TEC 180 f/7 on an AP900 or AP1200 and still have a bit left over if they truly wanted a 7" f/7 Apo.

In the end its still a 7" telescope no matter which way you cut it. A VERY pricy one at that.


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t.r.
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Reged: 02/14/08

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: skyward_eyes]
      #4912895 - 11/12/11 10:21 PM

The TEC 180 for $19K is where I'd put my money.

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WarrenS
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/04/08

Loc: Orange County New York
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: skyward_eyes]
      #4913003 - 11/12/11 11:47 PM

Quote:

The AP180 f/7 EDF is one of the rarest telescopes to come out of Astro-Physics. With only about a dozen ever made it is truly one of the most coveted scopes for AP collectors. Now is it work $35,000? I think its a bit high actually, especially in this economy. One could buy a gorgeous TEC 180 f/7 on an AP900 or AP1200 and still have a bit left over if they truly wanted a 7" f/7 Apo.

In the end its still a 7" telescope no matter which way you cut it. A VERY pricy one at that.




I get the collector aspect, I had a small collection of Leica cameras at one time. The shame of it was anything "collectible" had to stay safely at home or risk damage which would take a bite out of resale value. It'd be a shame not to get full use out of a great scope having paid a huge sum in order to maintain it's value and collectibility.


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cloud_cover
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/17/10

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: WarrenS]
      #4913026 - 11/13/11 12:28 AM

You saw correctly; here it is:
http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=753413

Well, you know, it includes the hardcase, feathertouch focuser and a 2" to 1.25" adaptor! Shipping and insurance extra.
I dunno though, if I had $35,000 to blow, would I get a 8-9" refractor or should I get a Webster C28? Always the choice between obstructed vs. unobstructed with glass quality going to the smaller refractor (by virtue of the relative ease of shaping smaller pieces of glass and of course, Roland's outstanding reputation)but sheer light gathering ability going to the large dob. Mounting will probably be almost the same when you compare the full weight of the refractor + mount vs. large dob, with plus point being the dob can be wheeled....


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jrbarnett
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Reged: 02/28/06

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Illinois]
      #4913068 - 11/13/11 01:44 AM

The 12" f/12 APM/LZOS triplet is 295,000 Euros (about $400k).

Kinda makes 7" for $35k look like a bargain.

My dream set-up is a solar powered, off-the-grid observatory in southern Utah (Everett Ruess country), with a mighty big refractor. That 12" f/12 LZOS would be just the thing. If it wasn't so danged expensive, that is.

- Jim


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Lew Chilton
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Reged: 10/20/05

Loc: SoCal
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4913088 - 11/13/11 02:12 AM

Did AP ever make a 9-incher?

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Bryguy
super member


Reged: 12/12/06

Loc: Frederick, MD
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Lew Chilton]
      #4913114 - 11/13/11 02:42 AM

Quote:

Did AP ever make a 9-incher?




One, they are posting about it in the classic telescope forum. It is the Pearl.

I believe there are two, maybe three 10 inchers. I think one of the 10 inch refractors is folded.

B.


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Ira
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Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Bryguy]
      #4913130 - 11/13/11 03:21 AM

There are people for whom that kind of money is just rounding error on a day's expenses. But I am not one of them.

/Ira


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Maverick199
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Ira]
      #4913235 - 11/13/11 07:17 AM

I think this has more to do with collectors, like rare item or antique collectors. I know of people who spend a fortune to buy a vintage car or paintings so why not a scope.

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LLEEGE
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Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: t.r.]
      #4913295 - 11/13/11 08:24 AM

Quote:

The TEC 180 for $19K is where I'd put my money.


Me too. However, if I were in a position to buy the AP, I would.

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skyward_eyes
Vendor - Sky-Watcher USA
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Reged: 12/12/06

Loc: California
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Lew Chilton]
      #4913339 - 11/13/11 09:01 AM

Quote:

Did AP ever make a 9-incher?




There is actually two 9" AP scopes but there is only one that is an f/12 or what ever the Pearl is in the classic forum. The other is a folded 9" that was custom made. It sold on Astromart a couple years ago.


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vahe
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 08/27/05

Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4913404 - 11/13/11 09:49 AM

Quote:


My dream set-up is a solar powered, off-the-grid observatory in southern Utah (Everett Ruess country), with a mighty big refractor. That 12" f/12 LZOS would be just the thing.





12" air spaced triplets are only useable in tropical climates where cooling is a non issue, in Utah forget it, ask Markus about the problems.

Vahe


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Paul G
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: skyward_eyes]
      #4913527 - 11/13/11 10:48 AM

IIRC, didn't Anacortes or Herb sell a new AP 180 f7 fairly recently, a new objective with the newest coatings and tube/paint? Wonder if this is the same scope?

Markus Ludes observed through one during a WSP and called it a magic scope. Maybe he can step in here and describe his observing experience.

I was offered a spot on the production run for this scope when I was ordering my 155 f7 EDFS. Marty at Company 7 told me it would be only 48" long, a "sweet scope," and at $8200 not hugely more expensive than the 155. Not really knowing how AP works I declined because it wouldn't fit as well on my G11 as the 155, and I could upgrade later to the 180. Lesson learned. I had an opportunity several years later for a private purchase but the going price was already $35K so I had to pass.


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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
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Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: LLEEGE]
      #4913703 - 11/13/11 12:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The TEC 180 for $19K is where I'd put my money.


Me too. However, if I were in a position to buy the AP, I would.




+1! Can you imagine the imaging potential? Some of the stuff Tony Hallas did with his 8" AP is phenomenal.

David


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clintwhitman
Caveman
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Reged: 01/01/07

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Bryguy]
      #4913776 - 11/13/11 12:56 PM Attachment (37 downloads)

Quote:

Quote:

Did AP ever make a 9-incher?




One, they are posting about it in the classic telescope forum. It is the Pearl.

I believe there are two, maybe three 10 inchers. I think one of the 10 inch refractors is folded.

B.




Roland told me he made two 9" oil spaced triplets. One is a F14.7 or so. And the other is my 1984 9" F10.6 and was the only one made from Nasa Glass. Roland Called it the "Onesy". It is in a class all by itself. It is the only one like it. The views are incredible. I have had Saturn at close to 700Xs and it seems to only be limited by the seeing.
Lets See, if you offered me $35k Cash for it right now ???? What would I say????? Heck no!!

As far as the cost of some of these telescopes it is all relative. To some folks $35k is like me buying my wife dinner. I have not used the 8"EDF but a friend has one of Rolands 7" EDTs and I can say it is an incredible telescope. I sure hope one of my friends hits the loto and buys the thing, so I cant get a look through it!!!
(lint (aveman Whitman


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jmiele
Patron Saint?
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Reged: 12/04/10

Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: clintwhitman]
      #4913866 - 11/13/11 01:39 PM

Ok Clint....lets have it.. How much for me to have that scope and mount? Come on, everything has it's price....

Joe


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Nimbus42
member


Reged: 11/11/11

Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: jmiele]
      #4913877 - 11/13/11 01:45 PM

AP is the new Zeiss where collectors are concerned. Wonder what's more expensive, an APQ150 or this one?

What is the "current" price for the AP-Mak btw??


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Mark9473
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Reged: 07/21/05

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: WarrenS]
      #4914130 - 11/13/11 04:15 PM

Quote:

there's a listing for a 7" AP refractor for $35,000! $35,000 buys a BMW, maybe a nice condo in todays real estate market, maybe a 24" RC complete with observatory and a top of the line CCD camera! Am I missing something or this ludicrous? I realize it's an Astro Physics, but it's still a 7" telescope.




For more or less the same amount of money, APM offers a used Zeiss 110 mm refractor. To be fair, that does include the mount and pier. Perhaps the 7" AP isn't a bad deal in comparison.


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Stellarfire
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Reged: 07/10/11

Loc: Switzerland
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: t.r.]
      #4914182 - 11/13/11 04:48 PM

Quote:

The TEC 180 for $19K is where I'd put my money.





Amen to that!

Stephan


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ValeryD
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Reged: 11/26/05

Loc: Kherson, Ukraine.
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: WarrenS]
      #4914214 - 11/13/11 05:15 PM

Quote:

I'm not in the market for anything costing more than a few hundred bucks right now but I still peruse the refractor section of Amart every now and then. Much to my astonishment there's a listing for a 7" AP refractor for $35,000! $35,000 buys a BMW, maybe a nice condo in todays real estate market, maybe a 24" RC complete with observatory and a top of the line CCD camera!




24"RC??? He he! Well said!


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dothead
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 08/13/08

Loc: Heidelberg, Germany
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4914419 - 11/13/11 07:48 PM

Quote:

The 12" f/12 APM/LZOS triplet is 295,000 Euros




You made a mistake. The 12" f/12 APM LZOS is 145,000 EUROS.

295,000 EUROS is the cost for the 14" f/12 APM LZOS.


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: dothead]
      #4914637 - 11/13/11 10:07 PM

Oh my! I'll order right away then!

- Jim


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ValeryD
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4914861 - 11/14/11 01:09 AM

Quote:

Oh my! I'll order right away then!

- Jim




Interesting, what should 10" and 12" F/10-12 APO doublets cost that peoples will really buy them?


Valery.


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spacedoutbob
member


Reged: 03/26/08

Loc: California
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: ValeryD]
      #4914912 - 11/14/11 02:57 AM

These are very nice toys, if you can afford it. Unfortunately, I'm not in that kind of position to spend that kind of money for a scope like that. Unless I hit the lottery I would never be able to purchase a scope that costs that much money. Any of you well off astronomers like to adopt me?

Bob


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: ValeryD]
      #4915246 - 11/14/11 10:42 AM

Doublets? Hard to say. I wonder whether the fashion for triplets hasn't made doublets a harder sell than they used to be.

Figure you could get at least $8,000 for a 10" doublet with decent mechanicals. That's what D&G gets for its 10-inchers (C-F achromats). Given that your ED doublet will likely be better color corrected than the D&G at like aperture and focal length, you should be able to get some kind of premium (1.5x perhaps)?

Very hard to predict.

- Jim


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poorman
super member


Reged: 10/08/03

Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4915287 - 11/14/11 11:07 AM

Here's an 8" AP for $18,000. This was $35,000 a couple days ago.
http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=754031


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Illinois
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: near Dixon, Illinois USA
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: poorman]
      #4915355 - 11/14/11 11:45 AM

I rather to have a few good telescope from various size 4" refractor up to 18 inch dobsonian than one expensive scope!

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Paul G
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Reged: 05/08/03

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: poorman]
      #4915381 - 11/14/11 12:00 PM

Quote:

Here's an 8" AP for $18,000. This was $35,000 a couple days ago.
http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=754031




That's a pretty good deal, relatively speaking. Their 8" EDF goes for $50K used, only about a dozen of those as well.


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vahe
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 08/27/05

Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Paul G]
      #4915405 - 11/14/11 12:15 PM

Quote:

That's a pretty good deal, relatively speaking. Their 8" EDF goes for $50K used, only about a dozen of those as well.




The last one on Amart was right at 100K, talk about greed, it was in the ads section for a while and eventually ended up in the auctions, no takers as far as I remember.

Vahe


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hfjacinto
I think he's got it!
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: vahe]
      #4915427 - 11/14/11 12:23 PM

At this price, I would either get the TEC 180 or a 17 RCOS and a Paramount.

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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
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Reged: 11/17/05

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: hfjacinto]
      #4915519 - 11/14/11 01:15 PM

Good night nurse! 18k~30k for a single telescope and nothing more.....

I made a package deal....my 10"f/15 to include all three spotters(5"f/9, 80mm f/15.6, and a 50mm f/5) custom spotter mounts..an internal electrical focuser(1.25")for Eps. Massive 4" shaft mount with 12" drive gears...and its 8ft 3 sided steel pier. The whole package for 25K...and guess what...it's been on the market for 1.5 years and no serious offers. I guess folks want to spend loads of their money on a smaller scope, then have to spend just as much on a good mount and pier.

Oh well.....I get to be the one to use it then.

It's hard to sell anything not made by a manufacturer..even if it's well made. I'm keepen it then.

Rob


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blueman
Photon Catcher
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #4915535 - 11/14/11 01:23 PM

Hmm, I thought your dad made that scope?
Blueman
Quote:

Good night nurse! 18k~30k for a single telescope and nothing more.....

I made a package deal....my 10"f/15 to include all three spotters(5"f/9, 80mm f/15.6, and a 50mm f/5) custom spotter mounts..an electrical helical focuser(1.25")for Eps. Massive 4" shaft mount with 12" drive gears...and its 8ft 3 sided steel pier. The whole package for 25K...and guess what...it's been on the market for 1.5 years and no serious offers. I guess folks want to spend loads of their money on a smaller scope, then have to spend just as much on a good mount and pier.

Oh well.....I get to be the one to use it then.

It's hard to sell anything not made by a manufacturer..even if it's well made. I'm keepen it then.

Rob




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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
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Reged: 11/17/05

Loc: Always Dark skies of Belfair W...
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: blueman]
      #4915582 - 11/14/11 01:57 PM

Quote:

Hmm, I thought your dad made that scope?
Blueman
Quote:

Good night nurse! 18k~30k for a single telescope and nothing more.....

I made a package deal....my 10"f/15 to include all three spotters(5"f/9, 80mm f/15.6, and a 50mm f/5) custom spotter mounts..an electrical helical focuser(1.25")for Eps. Massive 4" shaft mount with 12" drive gears...and its 8ft 3 sided steel pier. The whole package for 25K...and guess what...it's been on the market for 1.5 years and no serious offers. I guess folks want to spend loads of their money on a smaller scope, then have to spend just as much on a good mount and pier.

Oh well.....I get to be the one to use it then.

It's hard to sell anything not made by a manufacturer..even if it's well made. I'm keepen it then.

Rob







No Blue...he made my 6"f/15 and all its goodies..not the 10"f/15 and all of its. I'm never selling the 6"f/15...besides that one is insured for over 70K...though it's probably priceless as far as I'm concerned.

Rob


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Paul G
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Reged: 05/08/03

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: vahe]
      #4915588 - 11/14/11 01:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

That's a pretty good deal, relatively speaking. Their 8" EDF goes for $50K used, only about a dozen of those as well.




The last one on Amart was right at 100K, talk about greed, it was in the ads section for a while and eventually ended up in the auctions, no takers as far as I remember.

Vahe




Nothing wrong with asking, it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay. The two I know about personally sold for $50-65K. The $65K scope included an AP 1200 GTO mount. Unless a seller really needs the money or doesn't care about the money it wouldn't make sense to sell an AP at any kind of discount from past prices, even given the current disastrous economy. At some point Roland will retire and these scopes will become even more valuable.

Scopes like these often sell quietly behind the scenes.

Edited by Paul G (11/14/11 06:17 PM)


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The Ardent
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Reged: 10/24/08

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Paul G]
      #4915684 - 11/14/11 02:56 PM

Someone buys a Harley or BMW (or any luxury brand car) and no one says a thing.

Spend money on a fine telescope - outrage, shock, disbelief.


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John Kuhl
sage


Reged: 11/10/05

Loc: SoCal
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: The Ardent]
      #4915861 - 11/14/11 04:35 PM


It is like buying a really nice old car. Say a original Cobra for over a millon dollars. Or say a simple painting by someone with a fancy name like Picasso. Is it worth it? However when it comes to refractor telescopes, Roland of AP fame is right in there. So yes I would say it is worth it.

Best, John


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
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Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: skyward_eyes]
      #4915867 - 11/14/11 04:39 PM

Hi Kevin

early 90th's I bought from Tom Dobbins a 9"F/11 or F/12 Astro-Physics triplet oilspacest or cemented apo. Later on I sold it again, but I do not remember to whom and where


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APM M.Ludes
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Mark9473]
      #4915876 - 11/14/11 04:43 PM

Hi Mark

the Zeiss 110 I offer is a antique Instruments from around 1915 with a history, 60 years work at the University of Amsterdam and a 2 years full restauration.

the details in this scope with mount poer and accessories you cannot describe, but any company today who would be able to make excactly this things again, would charge you far over $ 100,000 for shure


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APM M.Ludes
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Loc: Germany
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4915879 - 11/14/11 04:44 PM

Hi Jim

did not received your order yet , you need my email adrese again ?

:-)


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TPMack
sage


Reged: 03/06/06

Loc: VA
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #4916025 - 11/14/11 05:58 PM

Markus,
I still have your ad for this scope from Starry Messenger because it also included the 10" TEC I bought from you. It is an F/11 scope and you were asking $11K for it.

Tom Mack


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Paul G
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Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: The Ardent]
      #4916059 - 11/14/11 06:19 PM

Quote:

Someone buys a Harley or BMW (or any luxury brand car) and no one says a thing.

Spend money on a fine telescope - outrage, shock, disbelief.




Yeah, doesn't make much sense. The scope will appreciate in value, the BMW will eventually be worth nothing. Compared to the decade old piece of burnt toast vaguely resembling the Virgin Mary that sold for $28,000, that 8" EDF at $100K is a steal!


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mikey cee
Postmaster
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Reged: 01/18/07

Loc: bellevue ne.
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #4916088 - 11/14/11 06:32 PM

Quote:

Hi Kevin

early 90th's I bought from Tom Dobbins a 9"F/11 or F/12 Astro-Physics triplet oilspacest or cemented apo. Later on I sold it again, but I do not remember to whom and where


You don't keep written records?? Mike

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Alph
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/23/06

Loc: Melmac
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #4916145 - 11/14/11 07:12 PM

Quote:

Some of the stuff Tony Hallas did with his 8" AP is phenomenal.



He put it out for sale few months ago for $48,000. Did you guys miss out on that bargain?


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Jeff B
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 12/30/06

Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #4916166 - 11/14/11 07:21 PM

Quote:

Hi Kevin

early 90th's I bought from Tom Dobbins a 9"F/11 or F/12 Astro-Physics triplet oilspacest or cemented apo. Later on I sold it again, but I do not remember to whom and where




Roland made several "one-offs". He made a 7" F15 lens/cell for me (never, EVER, should have sold that lens) with "NASA Glass".

Also, talking to Roland in the early to mid 80's he told me he produced a 10" F12 for, I believe, some well-to-do doctor in Michigan using NASA glass. It was a scaled version of the 5" F6 in terms of color correction but had significantly better spherochromatism than the 5" F6. He said it was a real PIA as well to make and he'd never do it again.

Jeff


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idealistic
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 12/31/10

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Paul G]
      #4916527 - 11/14/11 11:40 PM

Quote:

Compared to the decade old piece of burnt toast vaguely resembling the Virgin Mary that sold for $28,000, that 8" EDF at $100K is a steal!




The scope in question is a work of art. Its rarity is what determines the premium. If I had 35K to throw around Id prefer a 7" AP to something Id hang on my wall.

Edit: removed content potentially offensive to Christians, Jackson Pollock fans, and the French.

Edited by idealistic (11/15/11 05:36 PM)


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APM M.Ludes
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Loc: Germany
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: mikey cee]
      #4917077 - 11/15/11 11:34 AM

Hi Mike

by Goverment law we must keep all paper work in stock for 10 years, any idea how much mess that is ?

No after 10 years we shoot it away, otherwise we must rent a building to store paperwork only :-)


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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
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Reged: 11/17/05

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Jeff B]
      #4917097 - 11/15/11 11:48 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Hi Kevin

early 90th's I bought from Tom Dobbins a 9"F/11 or F/12 Astro-Physics triplet oilspacest or cemented apo. Later on I sold it again, but I do not remember to whom and where




Roland made several "one-offs". He made a 7" F15 lens/cell for me (never, EVER, should have sold that lens) with "NASA Glass".

Also, talking to Roland in the early to mid 80's he told me he produced a 10" F12 for, I believe, some well-to-do doctor in Michigan using NASA glass. It was a scaled version of the 5" F6 in terms of color correction but had significantly better spherochromatism than the 5" F6. He said it was a real PIA as well to make and he'd never do it again.

Jeff





All I got is *Onesy's and One-Off's*.....I might be the luckiest fellow alive.... .

45K for a single scope? People buy stamps for more then that... I could never be that fortunate.

Rob


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Nimbus42
member


Reged: 11/11/11

Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #4917177 - 11/15/11 12:29 PM

OT: about stamp collecting, this story from the UK Royal Family website
http://www.royal.gov.uk/The%20Royal%20Collection%20and%20other%20collections/TheRoyalPhilatelicCollection/History.aspx

"The 1d was bought from the Earl of Kintore's collection, while the unused Two Pence 'Post Office' Mauritius was acquired at auction in 1904 for a then-record price of 1,450.

A courtier asked the Prince if he had seen that "some damned fool had paid as much as 1400 pounds for one stamp". "Yes," came the reply. "I was that damned fool!"

If you can afford 35K for a scope, then power to you
Wish I were so fortunate.
And Markus, I take it you bring some papers home every week to burn it in the stove


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blueman
Photon Catcher
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Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Alph]
      #4917240 - 11/15/11 01:04 PM

A friend of mine bought that scope and we both image togther sometimes. It is a great scope, but quite heavy on the nose and it takes two to mount it safely. The scope is a one of a kind of course.
Blueman
Quote:

Quote:

Some of the stuff Tony Hallas did with his 8" AP is phenomenal.



He put it out for sale few months ago for $48,000. Did you guys miss out on that bargain?




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blueman
Photon Catcher
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Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #4917244 - 11/15/11 01:08 PM

Ahh, I see, for some reason I thought it was the larger scope.
Blueman
Quote:

Quote:

Hmm, I thought your dad made that scope?
Blueman
Quote:

Good night nurse! 18k~30k for a single telescope and nothing more.....

I made a package deal....my 10"f/15 to include all three spotters(5"f/9, 80mm f/15.6, and a 50mm f/5) custom spotter mounts..an electrical helical focuser(1.25")for Eps. Massive 4" shaft mount with 12" drive gears...and its 8ft 3 sided steel pier. The whole package for 25K...and guess what...it's been on the market for 1.5 years and no serious offers. I guess folks want to spend loads of their money on a smaller scope, then have to spend just as much on a good mount and pier.

Oh well.....I get to be the one to use it then.

It's hard to sell anything not made by a manufacturer..even if it's well made. I'm keepen it then.

Rob







No Blue...he made my 6"f/15 and all its goodies..not the 10"f/15 and all of its. I'm never selling the 6"f/15...besides that one is insured for over 70K...though it's probably priceless as far as I'm concerned.

Rob




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AZStarGuy
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Reged: 05/05/08

Loc: Scottsdale AZ
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: blueman]
      #4921654 - 11/17/11 09:15 PM

It you have the cash and a bug for Astro Physics equipment - $35k is probably the deal to jump on. You could wait a lifetime for another one like it to come up for sale.

If AP doesn't make your blood rush and/or $35k requires a quart of tequila and a defibulator - run!


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hottr6
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/28/09

Loc: 7,500', Magdalena Mtns, NM
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: skyward_eyes]
      #4922652 - 11/18/11 01:02 PM

Quote:

With only about a dozen ever made it is truly one of the most coveted scopes for AP collectors.



You hit the nail on the head: Specifically, the word collectors.

Looking at the silly money some folk sink into high-end optics and eyepieces, I'd say many folk on this forum spend more time looking at their equipment than through them.


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Astrojensen
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Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: hottr6]
      #4922656 - 11/18/11 01:04 PM

Quote:

I'd say many folk on this forum spend more time looking at their equipment than through them.




Given the abysmal weather many of us must endure, this hardly comes as a surprise.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Paul G
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Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: hottr6]
      #4922865 - 11/18/11 02:44 PM

Quote:

Looking at the silly money some folk sink into high-end optics and eyepieces, I'd say many folk on this forum spend more time looking at their equipment than through them.




Easy to say when you live in NM! My brother lives in AZ, has literally three times as many clear nights per year as where I live. Color me jealous!


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clintwhitman
Caveman
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Reged: 01/01/07

Loc: CALI SoEasyACavemanCanSlewIt
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: hottr6]
      #4923896 - 11/19/11 06:43 AM Attachment (59 downloads)

Well some time things fall from the sky and land in your hands. That was the case with the Pearl, Find of a lifetime was the phrase. She fell in my hands. I frequent Mtn Pinos and am friends with guys like Provin, Pons, Kennedy, Grissom. I have had allot of time over the years at this 8500 foot wonderland of telescopes cruzing the best and largest optics in the USA. The 9" F10 AP stands right next to and exceeds some of the best of them. It is now installed in the Star Oak Observatory out back at our little ranch. I spend way to much time out there. I can have it up and running in 3 minutes! I even go out in the morning before work and just look at her...
I know one thing for sure, If I sold this AP I would be kicking myself for selling it the rest of my life!! I did somthing that stupid once. I purchased a mint 1947 Gretch Syncromatic guitar for $200! I sold it in 1992 for $4k.. Dumb Dumb Kick Kick. Its now worth maybe 4 to 5 times that. Plus I will never find another one or get to play it again... Lucky, I was smart enough to purchase a 1969 Stratocast for a little over $300 and kept it for the past 23 years.... I just turned down $18K for it from a guy who cant even play.
Collectors


Clint (aveman Whitman and Ed Byers with the Pearl @ Pinos CSPAMP IV 2011


Edited by clintwhitman (11/19/11 06:53 AM)


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: clintwhitman]
      #4924049 - 11/19/11 09:50 AM

This thread is quite amusing. Everyone talks about these like they are an expensive hobby. Price a Harley, a boat, or an airplane. Even the expensive telescopes are hilariously cheap in comparison. The fact there are a few creeping up in value is more a statement of the worth of the activity.

Alternately, in a corporate setting, a $35k expenditure is so small, it's hard to get a buyer to spend the time to make the requisition. There, the dollar value where it starts being expensive is more like $100k-$1M.

If you had a $650k budget to put a visitor center together, I sincerely hope you'd consider spending $50k on the optic you were supposed to be showing people the wonders of the universe with, instead of a mediocre image through a bargain basement instrument which leaves them underwhelmed.

-Rich


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Nimbus42
member


Reged: 11/11/11

Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Starhawk]
      #4924060 - 11/19/11 09:59 AM

Amen to that. Astronomy is the only hobby I know except for knitting where 10k can get you pretty high-brow toys to play with. But When you don't have the cash it plain sks

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Illinois
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: near Dixon, Illinois USA
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Nimbus42]
      #4924382 - 11/19/11 01:39 PM

Astronomy is pretty cheaper hobby compare to Bass fishing! Bass Boat over $30,000,6 or 7 rods/reel= Good rod and reel is about $250 each,, lot of lures between $2 and $8 each gas, travel, etc! Of course I love fishing! Golf - you pay 40 dollars to play 18 holes per day!

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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
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Reged: 11/17/05

Loc: Always Dark skies of Belfair W...
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Illinois]
      #4924548 - 11/19/11 03:21 PM

Quote:

Astronomy is pretty cheaper hobby compare to Bass fishing! Bass Boat over $30,000,6 or 7 rods/reel= Good rod and reel is about $250 each,, lot of lures between $2 and $8 each gas, travel, etc! Of course I love fishing! Golf - you pay 40 dollars to play 18 holes per day!




Well that bass boat can be used for other recreations then fishing. skiing...tubing..etc. A telescope is generally a one subject tool.

On the other hand..building your own scopes can be even less expensive. Personally I'd never spend 35K for any hobby.

Rob


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Illinois
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: near Dixon, Illinois USA
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #4924618 - 11/19/11 04:05 PM

I agreed about boat! 35,000 dollars for one telescope is not for me! My 4 telescopes total is about $4,400!

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WarrenS
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/04/08

Loc: Orange County New York
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Illinois]
      #4924680 - 11/19/11 04:54 PM

I'm the original OP four pages back and after reading everything in this thread I've kinda come to a couple of conclusions. First, my original thoughts were in the world of $10,000 give or take 6" premium refractors I thought $25,000 for that extra inch was a little bit excessive. I did not think of scopes as being "collectible", although I do now.
Secondly, I'm very tempted to put my name on Astro-Physics list for one of their refractors as I'd have 10-12 years to save up for it. Then I'd enjoy it very carefully, not daring to have the paint scratched!


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gillmj24
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Loc: PA
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: WarrenS]
      #4924740 - 11/19/11 05:41 PM

Except that it's most likely too late for you to get a new AP brand telescope. The prices from the other premium apo makers are not going down either.

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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: gillmj24]
      #4925051 - 11/19/11 09:01 PM

You're too late to get on the list for APs, from what Roland is saying. But, there is a fellow with a BNIB AP130 EDFGT on sale on the other website, along with a low time unit with the rings and dovetail on a newer ad.

-Rich


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WarrenS
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/04/08

Loc: Orange County New York
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Starhawk]
      #4925153 - 11/19/11 10:24 PM

Quote:

You're too late to get on the list for APs, from what Roland is saying. But, there is a fellow with a BNIB AP130 EDFGT on sale on the other website, along with a low time unit with the rings and dovetail on a newer ad.

-Rich




Well, I just received the auto response email from AP that I'm on their 140mm F7.5 notification list. I guess the question is will Roland still be around to "oversee" production of my scope sometime in the next decade. I'll need those 10 years or so to save up my nickels and dimes any way.


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contrailmaker
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/02/09

Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: WarrenS]
      #4925389 - 11/20/11 02:25 AM

I'd guess that Roland has picked a worthy sucessor to continue producing Astro Physics scopes after he retires. If not, AP scopes will hold their value for a long time to come.

cm


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: contrailmaker]
      #4925824 - 11/20/11 10:46 AM

I've not heard of a Roland successor. My understanding is there have been several attempts to create one without success. The last version on the lists is if you haven't been on the 130 list for at least 7 years, you probably aren't getting one. Anyone have a more recent input?

I thought I had a 3 year wait when I went on that list; it ended up being 9 years and 15 days. Roland has said he will keep the 130s in production as long as he can, but there are limits, both technical and human.

If the production of AP OTAs stops, then we have yet to see their ultimate value.

-Rich


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WarrenS
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/04/08

Loc: Orange County New York
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Starhawk]
      #4926106 - 11/20/11 12:49 PM

Quote:

I've not heard of a Roland successor. My understanding is there have been several attempts to create one without success. The last version on the lists is if you haven't been on the 130 list for at least 7 years, you probably aren't getting one. Anyone have a more recent input?

-Rich




It would be a shame if a quality premium product such as Astro-Physics couldn't exist beyond the working lifetime of it's founder and owner. We still have Rolex's and Leicas. There must be enormous value in the AP brand, I can't believe it has a finite foreseable future.


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jmiele
Patron Saint?
*****

Reged: 12/04/10

Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: WarrenS]
      #4926148 - 11/20/11 01:23 PM

Yes, however, I think more Rolex's were sold before the owner retired.

This is a small market. Joe


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idealistic
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 12/31/10

Loc: massachusetts
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Starhawk]
      #4926172 - 11/20/11 01:33 PM

Quote:

I thought I had a 3 year wait when I went on that list; it ended up being 9 years and 15 days. Roland has said he will keep the 130s in production as long as he can, but there are limits, both technical and human.





How many people are on the list? And how long does it take to complete a scope from start to finish? I cant imagine the demand being so large, and production being so tedious that it takes the 9+ years to fill your order. I cant wrap my head around it. I mean they have a large production facility right? And the employees show up for work everyday?

I dont mean to sound flippant or anything, Im just completely uneducated when it comes to the production of world class refractors.


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orlyandico
Postmaster
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Loc: Singapore
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: idealistic]
      #4926190 - 11/20/11 01:43 PM

I "heard" that Roland hand-finishes every AP lens. This limits how fast they can turn them out. The mechanicals are obviously not a problem, AP has made a big business out of their mounts.

What I don't get is this - is "hand figuring" that important? at the risk of brickbats, I don't think an AP130GT is head-and-shoulders above say a Tak TOA130, most reviews are that they are almost indistinguishable.

And Tak _outsources_ their lens production to.. horror of horrors, Canon, the world's biggest churner of mass production lenses.

So the "hand-figured AP lenses" that cause the decade-long waits seems more of a business decision than something chosen on its technical merits.


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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
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Loc: Always Dark skies of Belfair W...
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #4926301 - 11/20/11 02:48 PM

Quote:

I "heard" that Roland hand-finishes every AP lens. This limits how fast they can turn them out. The mechanicals are obviously not a problem, AP has made a big business out of their mounts.

What I don't get is this - is "hand figuring" that important? at the risk of brickbats, I don't think an AP130GT is head-and-shoulders above say a Tak TOA130, most reviews are that they are almost indistinguishable.

And Tak _outsources_ their lens production to.. horror of horrors, Canon, the world's biggest churner of mass production lenses.

So the "hand-figured AP lenses" that cause the decade-long waits seems more of a business decision than something chosen on its technical merits.




I have a friend who owns a professional optical shop who makes lenses for big high tech industry and govt projects. His machines are expensive but they produce lenses that are *perfect*..at higher standards then amateur astronomers are requiring. and he makes hundreds of lenses..so I think it is possible..even acceptable.

If a CNC mill can be trusted to produce a 3D part at the highest tolerances...why not a piece of glass.

Rob


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silverking
member
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Reged: 03/11/08

Loc: Canada
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #4926306 - 11/20/11 02:50 PM

I think it may be somewhat of a stretch to presume that Roland hand figures lenses 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week.

It may take him a week to do one lens set....working a few hours each day.

He has a company to run as well, and may in fact not work such that he's too concerned that "everybody" get their AP scope before he retires (and he's past typical retirement age).

He's said many times that there are lots of choices out there now, unlike when he began AP, and the Apo choices were scarce (or non-existent).

I also think the big difference between Takahashi TOA and AP is that AP scopes are American Made.........and that means a lot to some folks..........but you're right in that if you're "just" after the perfect optics, you probably don't need to fret over the fact that it's "only" AP you can buy them from........in fact you can buy them now (as Roland has said) in quite a few places.

That Roland works each lens set shouldn't be underestimated in terms of "why" AP over all other Apo scope choices.
He's a legend in the field, something you have to have customers and industry types bestow upon you.........you can't "advertise" your way to legendary status.

As for why AP continues to depend on Roland hand-finishing every lens.......I'd say that when you build a companies reputation on the simple truth that every scope is perfect, figured and tested by the owner of the company (and one of the finest optical engineers on earth), you probably want to go out on that same note.

There's no reason to expect that AP won't continue to manufacture after Roland retires, but there's no guarantee that that manufacturing will include optics.
If you've followed the AP wait lists for the past decade, you'll already know that scope output has diminished every year, while mount and accessory output has increased.

Regardless of what happens, once Roland retires there will be no more hand-figured optics as a result of his working on them........and those scopes that have the provenance of having a "Roland Christian" lens set will be most definitely finite, highly desirable, and extremely expensive.


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rwiederrich
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Illinois]
      #4926330 - 11/20/11 03:01 PM

Quote:

I agreed about boat! 35,000 dollars for one telescope is not for me! My 4 telescopes total is about $4,400!




When done right you can get a load of scope for little. I built my 10"f/15 for less then $3000....


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Illinois
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #4926553 - 11/20/11 05:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I agreed about boat! 35,000 dollars for one telescope is not for me! My 4 telescopes total is about $4,400!




When done right you can get a load of scope for little. I built my 10"f/15 for less then $3000....




WOW! Thats great!


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rwiederrich
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Illinois]
      #4926600 - 11/20/11 06:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I agreed about boat! 35,000 dollars for one telescope is not for me! My 4 telescopes total is about $4,400!




When done right you can get a load of scope for little. I built my 10"f/15 for less then $3000....




WOW! Thats great!




It can be done with a tenacious desire..there is a 14"f/14.5 Brandt objective for sale on AM...with that objective a nice scope could be built for probably less then another $1500..if one is resourceful and machines all the work themselves. That big baby could be made for around $7100(to include the objective for sale).

Rob


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clintwhitman
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #4926805 - 11/20/11 07:57 PM Attachment (68 downloads)

Rob, Build it over the top..

OTA 15" Dia. 17 foot long monster. plus at least a 24" Dew shield. A mount for it would be impressive, Might as well plan on a AP 3600 with a few extra SS weights for $35K to get started. Or a nice Byers series III. $55k.. Used!! The pier I would guess you would want 12 to 14 feet tall to the base and that's if you off set the weight of the objective with a 45 pound tail piece and focuser, This is so you could slide the OTA 2/3rds of the way up in the cradle. Here is the 30 pound tail piece I designed and 4" AP focuser on the Pearl (there went you budget). The Combo weighs the same as the 9" triplet. This was the smartest thing I did when designing it.

Well if you built the 14" you would really have a heck of a big telescope... Maybe a folded design would be the way to go?

Edited by clintwhitman (11/20/11 08:28 PM)


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TG
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #4927131 - 11/21/11 12:11 AM

Quote:

I "heard" that Roland hand-finishes every AP lens. This limits how fast they can turn them out. The mechanicals are obviously not a problem, AP has made a big business out of their mounts.

What I don't get is this - is "hand figuring" that important? at the risk of brickbats, I don't think an AP130GT is head-and-shoulders above say a Tak TOA130, most reviews are that they are almost indistinguishable.

And Tak _outsources_ their lens production to.. horror of horrors, Canon, the world's biggest churner of mass production lenses.

So the "hand-figured AP lenses" that cause the decade-long waits seems more of a business decision than something chosen on its technical merits.




You can hear all about Roland and his art from the Man himself:

http://geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/roland/index.html

From what he says, and what's been reported from independent testing, A-P lenses of recent vintage test at 1/10 wave lambda (and I remember reading a test report measuring 1/70 wave RMS). That's as close to perfect as you can get. In one of the essays, you can read Roland saying that figuring each lens takes him anywhere from 2 hours to a day. Note that the lenses are not ground by hand - grinding and polishing happens by machine and only the final figuring is done by the Master himself.

Canon may make Tak lenses but I would bet that they're of quality at least equal to the many times more expensive L-series lenses and I would also bet there's some hand-figuring involved. There seems to be too much variability in the process and materials to think that pure machine grinding and polishing will result in lenses that perform to 1/10 wave. But I could be totally wrong and it'd be great to get some info on Canon's lens making for Taks.

Regards,

Tanveer


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Paul G
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #4927282 - 11/21/11 06:33 AM

Quote:

I "heard" that Roland hand-finishes every AP lens. This limits how fast they can turn them out. The mechanicals are obviously not a problem, AP has made a big business out of their mounts.

What I don't get is this - is "hand figuring" that important? at the risk of brickbats, I don't think an AP130GT is head-and-shoulders above say a Tak TOA130, most reviews are that they are almost indistinguishable.

And Tak _outsources_ their lens production to.. horror of horrors, Canon, the world's biggest churner of mass production lenses.

So the "hand-figured AP lenses" that cause the decade-long waits seems more of a business decision than something chosen on its technical merits.




Tak's guarantee is diffraction limited, or 80% Strehl. Roland guarantees a minimum Strehl of 98.4%, and he finishes each lens element and objective himself until it meets that minimum. Visually nobody would see the difference between a Strehl of 95% and 99%, but an imager who aggressively stretches the image will see a difference in star bloat. When optics are outsourced, there is a bell curve of quality within the specs requested from the manufacturer, some will be better than others. Figuring the glass in house allows each objective to be worked until it meets a very high standard. Different business model, one tailored to higher volumes.

There is a plethora of entirely machine made scopes on the market now. For those who want a scope from the hands of a legendary master optician there are few options. Roland knows he could make optics for the military and make a lot more money, move the decimal point over at least one place for what he makes, but his stated goal was to make the best optics possible at a fair price for amateurs, particularly for astrophotography, and in doing so he changed the landscape of our hobby. A 6" triplet from Tak is no longer way north of $20K as a result of Roland's scopes and, later, APM TMB scopes in larger numbers.

Master craftsman vs machine made in volumes isn't seen just in amateur astronomy, there are many other examples. Musical instruments from the hand of a master command much higher prices and have long waiting lists even though there are many excellent machine made instruments available.


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CounterWeight
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: WarrenS]
      #4927307 - 11/21/11 07:16 AM

Not a deal for me... I'd take same $ and get a TEC180FL (also hand figured), an A-P mount, and maybe look for a deal on an AP 130 for the smaller scope to piggyback? But to each their own, I can only daydream about either option.

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Ziggy943
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #4927760 - 11/21/11 12:39 PM

Let me throw up just a word of caution. Brandt didn't make many large lenses. In fact he made only a few. I know of only one 14" made for a California dentist, or at least it passed through his hands at some point, who also happened to be a Clark collector. He did not think the 14" lens was up to specs. Whomever buys it need to stipulate that it meets their expectations.

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hfjacinto
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Ziggy943]
      #4927780 - 11/21/11 12:51 PM

Several very good points (and I love looking at the Pearl, its just a beautiful scope), but there is one point that I disagree with and that is, that the $35,000 will appreciate over time. Like any investment, there is a chance that it will increase and another that it will decrease in value. Considering that most people will use this scope, there is a chance it can get damaged and lose value, or that people just don't want a 7" refractor. As to whether it is worth it, if it sells than its worth it, if it doesn't than it didn't find a buyer.

For me, there are other scopes that I would buy if the wife let me spend $35k.


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Nimbus42
member


Reged: 11/11/11

Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Ziggy943]
      #4927788 - 11/21/11 12:54 PM

Zeiss APQs have the same status.
They were very expensive when new, and prices when they are sold are up into the statosphere.

Then again, the master optician took each and every lensset, and when they did not meet the strict specification an ice-pick was used to smash the set so it could not leave the factory.


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rwiederrich
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Ziggy943]
      #4928275 - 11/21/11 05:48 PM

Quote:

Let me throw up just a word of caution. Brandt didn't make many large lenses. In fact he made only a few. I know of only one 14" made for a California dentist, or at least it passed through his hands at some point, who also happened to be a Clark collector. He did not think the 14" lens was up to specs. Whomever buys it need to stipulate that it meets their expectations.




It could be refigured....shoot the glass blanks alone are worth more then the finished objective....not to mention it is in a machined Byers cell non the less.

It should definately get a trip to Berry at D&G just to see its figure.

Rob


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SomeDoSomeDont
super member


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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: CounterWeight]
      #4928528 - 11/21/11 08:26 PM

AP180 f/7 Starfire EDF may be pricey but for visual use AP also made a bunch of 178mm f/9 Starfires. Don't know how many but I'll bet they don't cost any where near $35K.
Visually darn close to the 180 EDF.


Andy


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hfjacinto
I think he's got it!
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: SomeDoSomeDont]
      #4928662 - 11/21/11 10:01 PM

Quote:

AP180 f/7 Starfire EDF may be pricey but for visual use AP also made a bunch of 178mm f/9 Starfires. Don't know how many but I'll bet they don't cost any where near $35K.
Visually darn close to the 180 EDF.
:refractor

Andy




Our club has the 178 MM Astro Physics, and while its a nice scope, there is some color that is noticeable on bright objects. Not bad but not as good as the 150 and 130 mm AP scopes that I looked through.


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ngc2289
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Illinois]
      #4928880 - 11/22/11 01:09 AM

Illinois a few years back Marcus of APM was selling a 21 inch refractor, and I think he was asking $225,000. I think the price was for the lens the ota was extra!

Edited by ngc2289 (11/22/11 01:16 AM)


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: ngc2289]
      #4929020 - 11/22/11 06:01 AM

the 21 inch project for US customers was never made, they could not get the funds. This 21" was redesigned by Massimo Riccardi in a way that it could be practicle made and by using the glas melt datas. It should be completed, lens in cell, in spring 2012 and going to Italy to a rich person who will build his own tube and mount and enter it into a privat observatory , but for public viewing.
He is located near Rome in Italy

so we hope he will build everything fast and we can see the completed scope sometimes in 2012 , if so,I will post some pictures here


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Illinois
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Reged: 12/18/06

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #4929597 - 11/22/11 02:02 PM

225,000 dollars! Need big mount and observatory total probably half millions dollars! What if light pollution coming soon then diffcult to move a giant scope to new loaction! Look at world largest refractor 40 inch stuck in Wisconsin close to Milwaukee and Chicago!

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rwiederrich
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Illinois]
      #4929951 - 11/22/11 05:24 PM

Quote:

225,000 dollars! Need big mount and observatory total probably half millions dollars! What if light pollution coming soon then diffcult to move a giant scope to new loaction! Look at world largest refractor 40 inch stuck in Wisconsin close to Milwaukee and Chicago!




Yeah...that's a chunk of change.

A 21" triplet needs good seeing and good cool down to opimized. Money can buy anything..however it rarely can buy good sence.

I wouldnt' want to play with any more then 15"s at my location due to the high level of water in the atmosphere.

I'm glad Markus sold that 21" monster

I'm happy with my 10".

Rob


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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: clintwhitman]
      #4929987 - 11/22/11 06:02 PM

Quote:

Rob, Build it over the top..

OTA 15" Dia. 17 foot long monster. plus at least a 24" Dew shield. A mount for it would be impressive, Might as well plan on a AP 3600 with a few extra SS weights for $35K to get started. Or a nice Byers series III. $55k.. Used!! The pier I would guess you would want 12 to 14 feet tall to the base and that's if you off set the weight of the objective with a 45 pound tail piece and focuser, This is so you could slide the OTA 2/3rds of the way up in the cradle. Here is the 30 pound tail piece I designed and 4" AP focuser on the Pearl (there went you budget). The Combo weighs the same as the 9" triplet. This was the smartest thing I did when designing it.

Well if you built the 14" you would really have a heck of a big telescope... Maybe a folded design would be the way to go?




IMV, bulding *Over the top* doesn't need to include a 35K~55K mount. I can easily build one for far less and have it perform just as well. My 4" and electric focusers are as good as the AP ones..and my electric focuser is better(IMV). I nearly sold RC on the design of the electric focuser on my 6"f/15. He tooled his shop for his new focuser just before. OH well.

Still a 14"f/14.5 would be fun to build and mount. Possibly with a 3 tear step down tube...

Rob


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SomeDoSomeDont
super member


Reged: 01/17/10

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: hfjacinto]
      #4930029 - 11/22/11 06:32 PM

]

Our club has the 178 MM Astro Physics, and while its a nice scope, there is some color that is noticeable on bright objects. Not bad but not as good as the 150 and 130 mm AP scopes that I looked through.




Lemme know when your club wants to scrap that old AP178 beater with the colors around the bright objects.

Andy


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hfjacinto
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: SomeDoSomeDont]
      #4930172 - 11/22/11 07:50 PM

I told them to sell it but they like having an astrophysics, its on a Mathis mount, we also have a 16" MEADE, but thats not yet mounted.

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Napersky
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5610828 - 01/07/13 08:01 PM Attachment (36 downloads)

Quote:

Hi Mark

the Zeiss 110 I offer is a antique Instruments from around 1915 with a history, 60 years work at the University of Amsterdam and a 2 years full restauration.

the details in this scope with mount poer and accessories you cannot describe, but any company today who would be able to make excactly this things again, would charge you far over $ 100,000 for shure





Hey Marcus,

My 1920s Zeiss 110mm scope on my just arrived today Losmandy Mount. Unfortunately I don't have the original Zeiss mount perhaps someday I can get photos from you to build a replica!


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Napersky
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Napersky]
      #5610832 - 01/07/13 08:03 PM Attachment (29 downloads)

pic 2

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Napersky
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Napersky]
      #5610833 - 01/07/13 08:04 PM Attachment (71 downloads)

pic 3

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Darren Drake
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Napersky]
      #5610884 - 01/07/13 08:42 PM

And napersky just got an AP 6 inch superplanetary today with this mount. I'll be there the next clear night to help set up and get going....

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Peter Natscher
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/06

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: hfjacinto]
      #5611051 - 01/07/13 10:30 PM

TEC is not producing 180's, or 160's for that matter -- no glass. Only 140's ;( Roland is producing only 130's. Big glass from AP and TEC is gone!! Roland is finishing up the last few of his 175's run right now. And that will be it.

Quote:

At this price, I would either get the TEC 180 or a 17 RCOS and a Paramount.




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Peter Natscher
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/06

Loc: Central Coast California
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: WarrenS]
      #5611070 - 01/07/13 10:40 PM

The 140's were made from cut-down 160 f/7 glass blanks, and 160's are no longer able to be bought at the quality level that Roland, or TEC, is interested in. So, I won't see any more 140's being made, either. Let's see: no 140's, no 160's, no 175's, no 180's, no 200's. Gee, no big glass coming out of the US anymore. Maybe, China will start up production? Only 130's and 140's from AP and TEC, unless you go over to LZOS. And, you still have to get on that danged 6-8 year list for a little AP 130 ;(

Quote:

Quote:

You're too late to get on the list for APs, from what Roland is saying. But, there is a fellow with a BNIB AP130 EDFGT on sale on the other website, along with a low time unit with the rings and dovetail on a newer ad.

-Rich




Well, I just received the auto response email from AP that I'm on their 140mm F7.5 notification list. I guess the question is will Roland still be around to "oversee" production of my scope sometime in the next decade. I'll need those 10 years or so to save up my nickels and dimes any way.




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Mike Clemens
Frozen to Eyepiece
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5612264 - 01/08/13 04:27 PM

Offer $17k on astromart for a TEC200 and you will probably get bites. (Though not from me.) I do not think all the TEC200 have yet fallen into "permanent owners".

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coz
sage


Reged: 08/25/10

Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Mike Clemens]
      #5612279 - 01/08/13 04:38 PM

I believe he's making TEC 180s but they are FL.

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mgwhittle
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Mike Clemens]
      #5612345 - 01/08/13 05:12 PM

Quote:

Offer $17k on astromart for a TEC200 and you will probably get bites. (Though not from me.) I do not think all the TEC200 have yet fallen into "permanent owners".




I hope that is not correct.....17K for a TEC200? Sounds like too good a deal to me.


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gillmj24
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: mgwhittle]
      #5612363 - 01/08/13 05:27 PM

A 180 recently sold for about that much.

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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5612388 - 01/08/13 05:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

At this price, I would either get the TEC 180 or a 17 RCOS and a Paramount.



TEC is not producing 180's, or 160's for that matter -- no glass. Only 140's ;( Roland is producing only 130's. Big glass from AP and TEC is gone!! Roland is finishing up the last few of his 175's run right now. And that will be it.





TEC is currently producing 180FL OTA's. According to Yuri, they are also producing a few 110FLT's and a few 6" Maks but I think the Mak list is closed. That or they are just auctioning them off on eBay to the highest bidder. Not sure about the availability of the 180 or the 110 if you didn't get your name on the lists about a year ago.


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Mike Clemens
Frozen to Eyepiece
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Reged: 11/26/05

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: mgwhittle]
      #5612433 - 01/08/13 06:13 PM

I have seen a couple go for that price. I am referring to the TEC200 ED f/9 scopes. I haven't noticed a fluorite TEC200 trading in any recent times. Someone who offered that much got multiple bites I heard from TEC200 ED owners. I do not think it will take many shakes before they end up in their final owner hands.


Quote:

Quote:

Offer $17k on astromart for a TEC200 and you will probably get bites. (Though not from me.) I do not think all the TEC200 have yet fallen into "permanent owners".




I hope that is not correct.....17K for a TEC200? Sounds like too good a deal to me.




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maknewtnut
Member
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Reged: 10/08/06

Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Mike Clemens]
      #5612550 - 01/08/13 07:12 PM

I don't recall if the TMB designed/LZOS made 175/1400 has made it into the discussion yet. IMHO...still one of THE most overlooked, and (at least at one point) best 'value' for a large apochromatic refractor.

Mike can certainly comment on that optic (albeit IIRC, he experienced teething problems with his).


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MrGrytt
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/28/05

Loc: Upstate Cuomostan
Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: maknewtnut]
      #5612751 - 01/08/13 09:24 PM

Quote:

I don't recall if the TMB designed/LZOS made 175/1400 has made it into the discussion yet. IMHO...still one of THE most overlooked, and (at least at one point) best 'value' for a large apochromatic refractor.





They seem to be a well kept secret for some reason, except to the people who have them. Maybe it's because they're slightly more expensive than the new AP 175 f/8, even at the present fairly low exchange rate.

If they came with a dedicated field flattener and case like the AP scope they would be significantly more expensive. Without those accessories the AP would be significantly less expensive. However, the TMB does come with rings and the AP doesn't.

Optically I would bet they are very close to identical. I wouldn't want to bet against either one.

Harvey


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Mike Clemens
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Reged: 11/26/05

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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: MrGrytt]
      #5612793 - 01/08/13 10:00 PM

Did you get an AP175 Harvey?

Yes I loved the LZOS 175/1400 and have room in my heart to love another one some day....

I spent pretty much the entire time I had the 175/1400 on Mars. I looked at Saturn just enough to see that it looked remarkably sharp and pastel in the 175, before going back to the favorable Mars apparition of the time. Color correction to my eyes was completely perfect.

I wish I would have taken more photos through it. I was pretty much transfixed as a visual planetary observer at the time. I snapped a few single frame pics of Mars through a DSLR:
http://www.pbase.com/mclemens1969/image/68848526/original
http://www.pbase.com/mclemens1969/image/68848469/original


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MrGrytt
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Mike Clemens]
      #5612910 - 01/08/13 11:18 PM

Quote:

Did you get an AP175 Harvey?

Yes I loved the LZOS 175/1400 and have room in my heart to love another one some day....

I spent pretty much the entire time I had the 175/1400 on Mars. I looked at Saturn just enough to see that it looked remarkably sharp and pastel in the 175, before going back to the favorable Mars apparition of the time. Color correction to my eyes was completely perfect.

I wish I would have taken more photos through it. I was pretty much transfixed as a visual planetary observer at the time. I snapped a few single frame pics of Mars through a DSLR:
http://www.pbase.com/mclemens1969/image/68848526/original
http://www.pbase.com/mclemens1969/image/68848469/original




Hi Mike,
Yes, the AP 175 will be coming soon. I actually could have had it several months ago but I told them I was in no hurry and they should feel free to back me up on the time table. I sent in the final payment some time ago but have asked them to try to back the shipping up until I can be home to receive it in a couple months.

The TMB/LZOS 175 was a fantastic scope to have for Mars in 2003 and we were lucky to be alive for that one. Certainly the best views of Mars I've ever had.

I'm fairly certain that the TMB/LZOS optics have the best polychromatic Strehl of any scopes that were available. I suspect that the recent AP air-spaced designs (160 and 175) are in the same ballpark along with the Tak TOA scopes.

Harvey


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Joe C
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: MrGrytt]
      #5612953 - 01/08/13 11:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Did you get an AP175 Harvey?

Yes I loved the LZOS 175/1400 and have room in my heart to love another one some day....

I spent pretty much the entire time I had the 175/1400 on Mars. I looked at Saturn just enough to see that it looked remarkably sharp and pastel in the 175, before going back to the favorable Mars apparition of the time. Color correction to my eyes was completely perfect.

I wish I would have taken more photos through it. I was pretty much transfixed as a visual planetary observer at the time. I snapped a few single frame pics of Mars through a DSLR:
http://www.pbase.com/mclemens1969/image/68848526/original
http://www.pbase.com/mclemens1969/image/68848469/original




Hi Mike,
Yes, the AP 175 will be coming soon. I actually could have had it several months ago but I told them I was in no hurry and they should feel free to back me up on the time table. I sent in the final payment some time ago but have asked them to try to back the shipping up until I can be home to receive it in a couple months.

The TMB/LZOS 175 was a fantastic scope to have for Mars in 2003 and we were lucky to be alive for that one. Certainly the best views of Mars I've ever had.

I'm fairly certain that the TMB/LZOS optics have the best polychromatic Strehl of any scopes that were available. I suspect that the recent AP air-spaced designs (160 and 175) are in the same ballpark along with the Tak TOA scopes.

Harvey




Harvey, You can just have them ship me yours. When mine is ready, they can send it to you. I have been eagerly waiting for mine to be finished and shipped.

Edited by Joe C (01/08/13 11:50 PM)


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maknewtnut
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: MrGrytt]
      #5613040 - 01/09/13 01:14 AM

Great input fellas. Thanks.

That 'one point' I was referring to was when the TMB-LZOS 175/1400's were selling for around $12-14K. It seemed the market was asking for bigger and faster, so sales on the LZOS 180/1260 left some 175's sitting on the shelf.

In the context posed by the OP, one can draw a strong opinion about added collector's value...which IMHO is driven more by the heart than the mind.


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Maverick199
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: WarrenS]
      #5613063 - 01/09/13 01:37 AM

I read somewhere an arab paid million dollars for a scope. What's $35,000?

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Mike Clemens
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Maverick199]
      #5613078 - 01/09/13 02:05 AM

> That 'one point' I was referring to was when the
> TMB-LZOS 175/1400's were selling for around $12-14K.

I undercut that by building the OTA myself. Paid $7900 for the TMB175/8 lens new in 2004. Built the tube for about $2000: http://www.pbase.com/mclemens1969/tmb175_construction_pics
Took a healthy loss on sale due to people having fear of a homebuilt tube. Someone got a killer deal.


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MrGrytt
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Joe C]
      #5614173 - 01/09/13 06:00 PM

Quote:


Harvey, You can just have them ship me yours. When mine is ready, they can send it to you. I have been eagerly waiting for mine to be finished and shipped.





That very well could happen. I certainly gave them my permission. Of course I also told them that it was okay if Roland wanted to keep picking away at it until it was around .997 Strehl or better.

Harvey


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MrGrytt
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Mike Clemens]
      #5614249 - 01/09/13 06:37 PM

Quote:

> That 'one point' I was referring to was when the
> TMB-LZOS 175/1400's were selling for around $12-14K.

I undercut that by building the OTA myself. Paid $7900 for the TMB175/8 lens new in 2004. Built the tube for about $2000: http://www.pbase.com/mclemens1969/tmb175_construction_pics
Took a healthy loss on sale due to people having fear of a homebuilt tube. Someone got a killer deal.




Wow, how things change. The lens in cell alone now goes for $15,200. I don't doubt that someone got a killer deal. The tubes you built were very nice.

Harvey


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bremms
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Illinois]
      #5614262 - 01/09/13 06:42 PM

For a really fine handmade instrument.. $35k is not a lot of money. I think we are too used to telescope prices from mass production. $35k is a lot of money and I wouldn't spend that n a scope. But I can understand why somebody would. I think +5k for an 80mm Zeiss is more out of line. Great scope but not that rare. A 5" D&G will eat it for breakfast with room left over. It's all about what it's worth to someone. I'm a bit of a car guy and have some friends with some great collections. (Mostly Italian exotics)Went to an picnic a couple years ago at somone's house. He had a Ferrari Enzo and Mclaren F1 just sitting there.. Doesn't drive them. What is the point? My buddy and I were sad. Two of the most fabulous road cars ever made and you don't drive them? Went to another event at Road Atlanta where the CFO of microsoft had a 250 GTO and Fangio's GP car. Flogging them and I mean flogging them on the track.. nice guy too. We were talking about how Enzo would be happy that the cars were being used.

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Mike Clemens
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: MrGrytt]
      #5614320 - 01/09/13 07:16 PM

Hey Harvey

Where do you see prices on lens alone?


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MrGrytt
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Mike Clemens]
      #5614391 - 01/09/13 07:51 PM

Quote:

Hey Harvey

Where do you see prices on lens alone?




On the APM site.

http://tinyurl.com/bz2rhy7

Once you select a specific item it will also show you the export price in Euros. Then you have to multiply it by today's exchange rate, which right now is 1.3055.

Harvey


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Mike Clemens
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: MrGrytt]
      #5614799 - 01/10/13 01:08 AM

Wow! 4500 euro * 1.3 for a 130 f6 lens in cell... $5800...
Was $2600 when I bought one ten years ago. Not a good trend !!

I guess if I ever build a scope for old times sake it will be a 100/8. (Which I love.)

I see those prices "inkl. 19 % MwSt. zzgl. Versandkosten"

Maybe people in America don't pay that.


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Mark9473
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Mike Clemens]
      #5614915 - 01/10/13 05:17 AM

Like Harvey said, look for the export price, 3777 euro in this case.

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Napersky
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5615009 - 01/10/13 08:03 AM

My recently aquired AP 152mm Superplanetary with Losmandy G11 mount for $5,000 from Gary Hands, HandsonOptics is quite a good price. Gary said it was a "steal." Subtract $1250 for the mount and a 6" AP APO for $3,750! Stellarview charges over $10,000 for a new 6".

Mark


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Starhawk
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Napersky]
      #5615177 - 01/10/13 10:14 AM

See if you can get Perkin Elmer to quote making an instrument to that spec and see what it costs before you say this is outrageous.

-Rich


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bremms
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5615501 - 01/10/13 01:05 PM

Exactly.

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MrGrytt
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Joe C]
      #5615974 - 01/10/13 06:09 PM

Quote:


Harvey, You can just have them ship me yours. When mine is ready, they can send it to you. I have been eagerly waiting for mine to be finished and shipped.





Just so you know, they won't delay shipping so I guess you won't be able to move up in the line. Not sure why they wouldn't delay it but that was their final word.

Sounds like they have glass out for coating that they are waiting on. Probably a few will be shipping soon if that is the case.

Harvey


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clintwhitman
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: MrGrytt]
      #5618461 - 01/12/13 04:55 AM

I am feeling pretty good about my 228mm F10 Astro Physics APO right about now
(aveman


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maknewtnut
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: clintwhitman]
      #5618945 - 01/12/13 12:08 PM

Don't remind of us that find ever again Clint.
You lucky stiff! I'm glad it went to someone deserving.


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Jeff B
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Mike Clemens]
      #5619633 - 01/12/13 06:48 PM

Quote:

> That 'one point' I was referring to was when the
> TMB-LZOS 175/1400's were selling for around $12-14K.

I undercut that by building the OTA myself. Paid $7900 for the TMB175/8 lens new in 2004. Built the tube for about $2000: http://www.pbase.com/mclemens1969/tmb175_construction_pics
Took a healthy loss on sale due to people having fear of a homebuilt tube. Someone got a killer deal.




Mike:

I see two lens serial numbers, 043 & 048, in your pictures. Did you build two scopes?

I just picked up a 175 F8 with lens serial 041 yesterday. It's in good condition but it has been around the block a bit. It's the same one reviewed here on CN back in 2004. It's a bit of a beast.

Jeff


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Mike Clemens
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Jeff B]
      #5619642 - 01/12/13 06:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

> That 'one point' I was referring to was when the
> TMB-LZOS 175/1400's were selling for around $12-14K.

I undercut that by building the OTA myself. Paid $7900 for the TMB175/8 lens new in 2004. Built the tube for about $2000: http://www.pbase.com/mclemens1969/tmb175_construction_pics
Took a healthy loss on sale due to people having fear of a homebuilt tube. Someone got a killer deal.




Mike:

I see two lens serial numbers, 043 & 048, in your pictures. Did you build two scopes?

I just picked up a 175 F8 with lens serial 041 yesterday. It's in good condition but it has been around the block a bit. It's the same one reviewed here on CN back in 2004. It's a bit of a beast.

Jeff




#43 had 2 waves of coma on arrival and went back to Thomas Back. #48 was the replacement. Congrats on your scope. A bit of a beast but the views are incredible.


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Jeff B
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Mike Clemens]
      #5619809 - 01/12/13 09:06 PM Attachment (23 downloads)

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

> That 'one point' I was referring to was when the
> TMB-LZOS 175/1400's were selling for around $12-14K.

I undercut that by building the OTA myself. Paid $7900 for the TMB175/8 lens new in 2004. Built the tube for about $2000: http://www.pbase.com/mclemens1969/tmb175_construction_pics
Took a healthy loss on sale due to people having fear of a homebuilt tube. Someone got a killer deal.




Mike:

I see two lens serial numbers, 043 & 048, in your pictures. Did you build two scopes?

I just picked up a 175 F8 with lens serial 041 yesterday. It's in good condition but it has been around the block a bit. It's the same one reviewed here on CN back in 2004. It's a bit of a beast.

Jeff




#43 had 2 waves of coma on arrival and went back to Thomas Back. #48 was the replacement. Congrats on your scope. A bit of a beast but the views are incredible.




Mike:

Interesting. Sounds like the center element was displaced. Did Tom say what it was?

Here are pictures of the 175 F8. Oh my aching G11.

Jeff


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Jeff B
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Jeff B]
      #5619817 - 01/12/13 09:12 PM Attachment (28 downloads)

It "only" took 44 pounds of counterweights, 11 fewer than it takes for the C14 which the G11 handled just fine. I used the Parallax rings for the main support and one of the stock rings for the finder (60MM F5) and counterpoise weight on the ring bottom. It really needs the extra weight in the back end there. Not sure when first light will be.

Jeff


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Mike Clemens
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Re: Is this $35,000 7"refractor deal for real? new [Re: Jeff B]
      #5621558 - 01/13/13 08:13 PM

Such a nice setup Jeff.

Yes, Tom said one of the elements was out of place, I assume the center since the ends are affixed to the back and front of the cells with adhesive strips.


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