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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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gillmj24
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 12/06/05

Loc: PA
Re: AP 175 new [Re: Dwight56]
      #5501213 - 11/02/12 04:35 PM

I agree. APOs are definitely more fun and probably a better "bet" than zero point diddly in the bank.

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JJK
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 04/28/08

Re: AP 175 new [Re: Dwight56]
      #5501830 - 11/02/12 11:56 PM

Quote:

As I recall Rolands pricing reflected the idea he wanted to give premium optics to those who would not normally be able to afford such telescopes. The flippers in the past pretty much killed off that notion. The price of the grand Torismo being almost double what the original 130 F6 sold for pretty much ended the flipper strategy of making a killing on his telescopes. I have been offered high prices for my other AP scopes including my AP 175 but I'm not budging simply because I enjoy using Roland's scopes and I'm in a good enough financial position that I will never have to sell my scopes out of desparation. Now if the dollar collapes I don't think its going to matter anyway's, at least I'll have my AP scopes.




I sold my AP130GT (bought new from AP) and 180 f/9 EDT (previously owned) for what I paid. I could have sold the 130 for about $3K more than I did, but the scope went to a good fellow.


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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: AP 175 new [Re: Dwight56]
      #5502098 - 11/03/12 09:14 AM

Quote:

As I recall Rolands pricing reflected the idea he wanted to give premium optics to those who would not normally be able to afford such telescopes. The flippers in the past pretty much killed off that notion. The price of the grand Torismo being almost double what the original 130 F6 sold for pretty much ended the flipper strategy of making a killing on his telescopes. I have been offered high prices for my other AP scopes including my AP 175 but I'm not budging simply because I enjoy using Roland's scopes and I'm in a good enough financial position that I will never have to sell my scopes out of desparation. Now if the dollar collapes I don't think its going to matter anyway's, at least I'll have my AP scopes.




I don't think the list price of the AP130GT has stopped flipping the AP scopes at all! I see them quite regularly for 1 - 2K over list. Making a 1 - 2K profit on a 6K outlay in six months or less is a pretty good return.


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RodgerHouTex
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: AP 175 new [Re: M13 Observer]
      #5502169 - 11/03/12 10:36 AM

Just say no to flipping!

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Dwight56
member


Reged: 04/17/10

Re: AP 175 new [Re: M13 Observer]
      #5502260 - 11/03/12 11:40 AM






I don't think the list price of the AP130GT has stopped flipping the AP scopes at all! I see them quite regularly for 1 - 2K over list. Making a 1 - 2K profit on a 6K outlay in six months or less is a pretty good return.





Flippers used to double and sometimes triple there money when they flipped a scope. The worst was the F5 stowaway where some were selling that little hard won prize for as much as 10k. The doubling days I think are pretty much over on new AP scopes.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: AP 175 new [Re: Dwight56]
      #5502307 - 11/03/12 12:10 PM

Waiting 9+ years on a telescope, buying it in a once in a lifetime opportunity, then immediately reselling it with just enough profit to buy a MacBook Pro is hardly the day their ship came in. Anyone who thinks they earned a lot doing that is kidding themselves.

The vast majority appear to sell at cost- which is more than the bare OTA if the rings, dovetail, and other basic accessories are included. I've talked to a few of them now- and so far they've all had the same reasons:

(1) It ended up being a lot more scope than they were expecting, and they really aren't prepared for it. Remember, an AP 130 EDFGT is quite a but linger than a C11 and weighs just as much.

(2) Their lives have moved on. A lot of time has passed and the kids have moved away and things just aren't the way they were when they went on the list.

(3) Their interst has waned. They went on the list at a gung-ho point and took delivery thinking they'd get back there, and it didn't happen.

(4) Personal financial catastrophe. The 2007 meltdown has surely and steadily taken it all, and everything of value is going.

None of them have said getting $1000 was a motivation.

If the sale price were 2x and you knew you personally had a stream of them coming to your door at that price, yeah, that would be a money making opportunity. Turning around a 1-off which selks for significantly less than a car to make 10%-25%? That's hardly a business proposition.

-Rich


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Joe C
sage
*****

Reged: 11/29/08

Re: AP 175 new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5502538 - 11/03/12 03:08 PM

I must admit, when signing up for the lottery, my intentions were to buy and make a quick profit. While what I was being offered was more than enough to profit a very attractive margin, my motivation quickly changed. I realized I had an opportunity to be 1 of very few to have a chance to own some of Roland's big glass. I made some drastic changes and moved a small mountain to make it possible to keep mine. Fortunately I have a very supportive wife.

I now have a mount that will support the 175, AP rings and multiple other accessories that I will need to take advantage of such a piece of artwork. At the moment, I would not think of selling mine. Rather using my fortune to allow others, who would otherwise never have an opportunity, to view through one of the finest portable refractors made.

Even though mine has not shipped yet, I have already made plans on making this a lifetime scope that I will most certainly enjoy it's use for a very long time to come.

Edited by Joe C (11/03/12 03:08 PM)


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RodgerHouTex
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: AP 175 new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5502703 - 11/03/12 05:41 PM

If you no longer want it - pass.

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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: AP 175 new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5502801 - 11/03/12 06:50 PM

Quote:

Waiting 9+ years on a telescope, buying it in a once in a lifetime opportunity, then immediately reselling it with just enough profit to buy a MacBook Pro is hardly the day their ship came in. Anyone who thinks they earned a lot doing that is kidding themselves.
-Rich




Let's see, there was absolutely NO outlay of cash. All you did was say or typed, "Yeah, I think I might like one of them.", and then pretty much forgot about it.
Kind of like you could say you would like any other fine handcrafted item such as a high end guitar, or a flute perhaps. Maybe a car if you were really rolling in it. But wait, these latter items are different. They want half their money NOW and oh, by the way, be sure to give us a call in five years if you haven't heard from us.

At any rate, if things have changed to the extent that you can't afford it, or the kids are no longer interested, or you are no longer interested, or whatever, then just say "NO THANKS" when you get that call and pass it along to the next person waiting anxiously. Absolutely no need to flip it for $1000, or $10000.


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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: AP 175 new [Re: Dwight56]
      #5502809 - 11/03/12 06:53 PM

Quote:






I don't think the list price of the AP130GT has stopped flipping the AP scopes at all! I see them quite regularly for 1 - 2K over list. Making a 1 - 2K profit on a 6K outlay in six months or less is a pretty good return.





Flippers used to double and sometimes triple there money when they flipped a scope. The worst was the F5 stowaway where some were selling that little hard won prize for as much as 10k. The doubling days I think are pretty much over on new AP scopes.




Yeah, on some of them, but I think that specific AP instruments will still command prices significantly higher than what they were purchased for. So saying, I can't wait for that first RH305 or even an AP175 to hit the auction block. It should be an interesting show!


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Malabargold
member


Reged: 07/15/12

Re: AP 175 new [Re: M13 Observer]
      #5503003 - 11/03/12 09:08 PM

They blew through the entire wait list on this scope, with at least 11 spares.

Would have been nice to have seen those offered to people on the miles long 155/160 list instead of a lottery open to newcomers.

Since the entire wait list was checked off, and this wasn't opened to other
Wait lists, no one was cheated out of long awaited glass on this one.


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mgwhittle
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 08/24/11

Loc: Chattanooga, TN
Re: AP 175 new [Re: Malabargold]
      #5503054 - 11/03/12 09:37 PM

Well, even though I was a lottery winner, I've also been on the other waiting lists for years. So at least one of the 175's went to someone who has been hoping for an AP scope for a long time.

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Dwight56
member


Reged: 04/17/10

Re: AP 175 new [Re: mgwhittle]
      #5505278 - 11/05/12 11:33 AM

Went out to visit with the Wickenburg Astronomers near Wickenburg Ariz. Moonrise was to be about 3 and 1/2 hours after evening twillight so I thought I'd make the 50 mile drive from my house. Getting Antsi for some dark Sky time for my new AP. I setup on a site just a few miles from town that was reasonably dark considering the location from the Wickenburg and Phx Ariz. After setup of my 1200 gto and my AP 175 had really great views of M31 and M33 both of which were showing great detail in there cores and companion galaxies were bright and easy to see with M31. M13 resolved nicely through the core. I did take a look at M8 and M16 even though they are getting low still showed some great contrast. M27 was nice and bright and definately going to be a tarket for my ST10. I took and peak and Uranus and Neptune we were seeing limited and when Jupiter had risen it was still a bit mushy by the time 8:30 PM arrived I noticed a bit of Sky Glow and then finally when the moonrise about 9:45 it was for me time to teardown and head back to Phx. I'm looking forward to getting some time where it is really dark and more hours to do some looking around. This scope is going to be great for and M31 mosaic with my Canon D60 along with M33.

Edited by Dwight56 (11/05/12 11:35 AM)


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jmiele
Patron Saint?
*****

Reged: 12/04/10

Re: AP 175 new [Re: Dwight56]
      #5505680 - 11/05/12 04:43 PM

Sounds glorious sir. Can't wait to see some images.

Joe


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Jwemes
super member


Reged: 02/26/10

Loc: Wickenburg, AZ
Re: AP 175 new [Re: Dwight56]
      #5505781 - 11/05/12 06:19 PM

Hey Dwight,
Thanks for coming out and letting so many people mooch photons through the AP175! You couldn't tell in the dark, but there were a number of 'scope users who's skin turned green w/envy. All I can say is "Wow! What a beautiful telescope".
Thanks again,


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Dwight56
member


Reged: 04/17/10

Re: AP 175 new [Re: Jwemes]
      #5529891 - 11/20/12 11:27 AM

I thought I'd mention did some observing in my back yard last Saturday. Jupiter was showing a wealth of detail similair to my AP 10 inch Mak. But the most interesting thing I did was the following morning I observed Regulus and Venus and finally Saturn and this was when the sun was already up and sunning everything.

Edited by Dwight56 (11/20/12 11:29 AM)


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mgwhittle
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 08/24/11

Loc: Chattanooga, TN
Re: AP 175 new [Re: Dwight56]
      #5530263 - 11/20/12 02:07 PM

Geez Dwight...you are making my wait to get mine more difficult!

Seriously, I'm glad to hear the positive report and your thoughts regarding its performance.


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Dwight56
member


Reged: 04/17/10

Re: AP 175 new [Re: mgwhittle]
      #5530347 - 11/20/12 02:48 PM

Tell you what I'm very happy with this scope. For many years I was interested in both the 180 F7 and the 180 F9. With this 175 F8 Roland seems to have found a nice compromise in focal length. Not too long and not to short just right. When I talked to Roland and Marge at the recent Tucson Astro gathering. Roland mentioned he had two more 175's to finish. Since he is back it should not be too long before you get your scope.

Edited by Dwight56 (11/20/12 02:49 PM)


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mgwhittle
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 08/24/11

Loc: Chattanooga, TN
Re: AP 175 new [Re: Dwight56]
      #5530387 - 11/20/12 03:07 PM

The lens is either being coated or just finished being coated at this time. So hopefully soon. Maybe I will get the last one made.

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Joe C
sage
*****

Reged: 11/29/08

Re: AP 175 new [Re: mgwhittle]
      #5530587 - 11/20/12 04:34 PM

Woohoo

Mark, sounds like we get the last 2. Will make a very nice Christmas present to myself


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