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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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EddWen
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/26/08

Re: AP 175 new [Re: Svezda]
      #5329682 - 07/22/12 12:14 PM

Thank you Svezda.

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Alph
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/23/06

Loc: Melmac
Re: AP 175 new [Re: gillmj24]
      #5329755 - 07/22/12 12:58 PM

Quote:

Well said.



Now if only someone wrote a song about Roland


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: AP 175 new [Re: gillmj24]
      #5330272 - 07/22/12 07:16 PM

Quote:

Well said.




+1


Jon


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: AP 175 new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5330746 - 07/23/12 01:46 AM

I think part of this is Roland wants the scopes to get into the hands of skilled amateur astronomers. Yes, it could gravitate to being all about the money, and the only people who would own one would be people looking for a status symbol, and they'd be out of reach to anyone else.

One point I think needs considering is the flippers aren't really making all that much. Maybe 15%, for which they had to put up the cash to get the scope. So, the flipping really is kind of stupid. More commonly, the ones I've checked out just had more than they expected show up, and they just weren't prepared/ had doubts/ or found it was beyond them.

Those are a bit of a relief valve for the list. Pay attention and buy one being sold at cost.

And since I've learned there are over three times as many AP130 EDFGT OTAs shipped as NP-127s. The problem really is demand.

-Rich


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Eric Gage
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/13/05

Re: AP 175 new [Re: Alph]
      #5331511 - 07/23/12 03:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Well said.



Now if only someone wrote a song about Roland




Le Chanson de Roland is a classic of world literature, but I didn't think our optical friend was quite that old.


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johnnyha
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: AP 175 new [Re: Eric Gage]
      #5331558 - 07/23/12 03:36 PM

Roland Roland Roland
the list has gotten swollen
keep them scopes a rollin'
Rawhide!

Rain, wind and weather
Hell bent for leather
Some on the list have even cried
No time to count em
Just uncase 'em and mount 'em
AP900 by my side

Pack 'em up! Ship 'em out!
Ship 'em out! Move 'em out!
Mount 'em up, Rawhide!

Roland Roland Roland
Rawhide!



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Rich N
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 09/22/04

Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
Re: AP 175 new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5331586 - 07/23/12 03:53 PM

I like the song!

It looks like I'll be getting a 175EDF sometime in September. :-)

Rich


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Ryan W
sage
*****

Reged: 10/26/10

Loc: Port Matilda, PA
Re: AP 175 new [Re: PhilCo126]
      #5331926 - 07/23/12 07:05 PM

Quote:

TEC 180s might be planned but how long will the waiting lists be? Looks like TEC cannot follow the demand...




I spoke with Yuri a few days ago and he said he is doing a new run of TEC 180s soon. He is waiting until the end of July for orders and then place his glass order with Schott and begin production asap. I was quoted a wait time of 3 months, id expect it to be more like 6, but that is better than 10 years (for me at least). I put my name on the TEC list about a month ago thinking it would be a while until they produced any, if ever. I purchased a TEC 160ed in the meantime to "hold me over", i planned on having it for a while. That changed when I found out about the 180 run last week. Got lucky!

On the 175s, i agree that Roland is doing an excellent thing by keeping the prices down for those who still want the scopes. I don't agree that he should ask people to not sell them if they want to. That said, I probably wouldn't flip the scope considering I am in the market for that size (and price) refractor.

Sorry for taking it off topic a little at the beginning,
Ryan W


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Scott99
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: New England
Re: AP 175 new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5332097 - 07/23/12 09:04 PM

Quote:

Roland Roland Roland
the list has gotten swollen
keep them scopes a rollin'
Rawhide!:





very nice!


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Rich N
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 09/22/04

Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
Re: AP 175 new [Re: vahe]
      #5333261 - 07/24/12 03:11 PM

Speaking of pricing, the QRBASE (finder scope base) is now $40.00. I think it was around $37. I needed it for the 175EDF. The good thing is the QRBASE works very well.

Rich


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RodgerHouTex
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: AP 175 new [Re: Rich N]
      #5333353 - 07/24/12 03:58 PM

Ok, I'm sorry but I can't let all of this go.

First let me comment on the earlier post about someone who has approximately 40 AP scopes as an investment. What will happen is he will die and his heirs, not knowing what he had, will sell them for pennies on the dollar.

I know. I had a gun collection that I had to divide with my ex-wife. She sold the ones I gave her for about 1/4 of what they were worth.

And then there's the guy who has, what was it, 4 AP 10" Maks. Why? You can only look through one at a time. Same thing will happen to him.

Oh, and when it comes to Roland grinding and polishing his objectives lovingly. Doesn't happen. He has a machine, or machines that is/are programmed and grinds and polishes the objectives, if I remember correctly, to around 1/8 wave. All that Roland does is the final figuring. It's kind of similar to the Rolex myth. They no longer hand assemble watches and haven't for years. They make over a million watches a year by MACHINE.

And finally, Roland, nor any other manufacturer can sell their products at collector prices unless they are unethical. As a manufacturer he acquires the materials to manufacture an item, spends the manpower to assemble them, and tacks on a reasonable profit margin as it should be.

The "collectors" of APs in the amateur community are to blame for the outrageous prices Roland's scopes resell for. Maybe his message was aimed at those folks when it comes to "please don't resell them".


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Rich N
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 09/22/04

Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
Re: AP 175 new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5333408 - 07/24/12 04:28 PM

With one exception I actually use my different AP OTAs. No, nowhere near 40 OTAs, darn it.

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John Kuhl
sage


Reged: 11/10/05

Loc: SoCal
Re: AP 175 new [Re: Rich N]
      #5333526 - 07/24/12 05:47 PM

There are a lot of companies that manufacturer products and sell at collector prices. The cost of diamonds and all gem stones come to mind. What about cars? Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Rolls-Royce get collector prices on new products. Same with those Rolex watches you talked about. When it comes to AP scopes it is all about supply and demand.

Best, John

Edited by John Kuhl (07/24/12 05:48 PM)


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: AP 175 new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5333543 - 07/24/12 05:54 PM

Quote:

Oh, and when it comes to Roland grinding and polishing his objectives lovingly. Doesn't happen. He has a machine, or machines that is/are programmed and grinds and polishes the objectives, if I remember correctly, to around 1/8 wave. All that Roland does is the final figuring.




I think every one understands that Roland doesn't grind the lenses, he does have some very sophisticated equipment for grinding and polishing the glass. It's worth noting too that the the sum total of the optical errors would be 1/8-10th wave which means the individual lenses would need to be considerably better.

And I think there is a whole lot more than Roland does than the final figuring but he is the one that does that figuring and testing and decides it's ready.

My suggestion:

If you don't want an Astro-Physics scope, don't want to wait in line... Don't.

Jon

Edited by Jon Isaacs (07/24/12 05:56 PM)


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houser23
sage


Reged: 10/26/09

Loc: Rocklin, CA
Re: AP 175 new [Re: vahe]
      #5333813 - 07/24/12 09:06 PM

I think the man hording the 4 AP Maks is ridiculous, and I understand that it's his money and he can do whatever he wants with it but come on sell those babies so someone else can enjoy the fruits of Rolands labor.

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JJK
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 04/28/08

Re: AP 175 new [Re: Rich N]
      #5334312 - 07/25/12 08:31 AM

Quote:

With one exception I actually use my different AP OTAs. No, nowhere near 40 OTAs, darn it.




As do I.


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RodgerHouTex
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: AP 175 new [Re: John Kuhl]
      #5334379 - 07/25/12 09:33 AM

I'm sorry but I don't agree with your examples.

For example Rolex. They are living on a reputation that they built a long time ago. They spend ungodly sums on advertising, and I actually believe that they are screwing the people who buy their products. (I own a Breitling ). Also, if I remember properly, the owner or CEO lost almost all his money in the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme. Is Rolex charging a premium for collectablity? I don't think so.

Edited by RodgerHouTex (07/25/12 09:43 AM)


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: AP 175 new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5334415 - 07/25/12 09:55 AM

Quote:

For example Rolex. They are living on a reputation that they built a long time ago. They spend ungodly sums on advertising, and I actually believe that they are screwing the people who buy their products.




A Rolex is old technology, it's a mechanical wonder but far from state of the art as a time piece. If one is interested in the most accurate time, there are far cheaper, more accurate watches.

Jon


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mark8888
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/24/10

Re: AP 175 new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5334431 - 07/25/12 10:08 AM

Quote:

And finally, Roland, nor any other manufacturer can sell their products at collector prices unless they are unethical.




I don't agree with that, not in a capitalist country, unless you are talking about necessities like food staples and energy.


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Malabargold
member


Reged: 07/15/12

Re: AP 175 new [Re: mark8888]
      #5334459 - 07/25/12 10:33 AM

I thought we were (supposed) to be a country of individual liberties.
Friends from other countries who visit are always astonished
at how many "thou shall nots" we have and how many Americans want to foist their particular ethos (pun) on their fellow countrymen


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